1944 s STEEL Lincoln Cent in Baltimore!!! WOW!!!

Rob790 · July 16, 2008 9:26AM

I was looking through Heritage's upcoming Baltimore sale and I ran across this....

All I can say is WOW! I really wish I was going to Baltimore, I'd love to see it in person.. Look closely and you will see an "S"!!

1944-S 1C --On a Zinc-Plated Steel Planchet--MS66 NGC

You can also see what looks like pieces of bronze/brass sticking to the obverse and reverse? Very interesting.

Unfortunately... too rich for my wallet...

commoncents05 · July 16, 2008 9:30AM

Super sweet!!!

-Paul

Silverstate · July 16, 2008 9:32AM

ambro51 · July 16, 2008 9:33AM

WOW!

ricko · July 16, 2008 9:33AM

Any estimates of how many of these exist? All I have seen says a 'few' are known to exist. Cheers, RickO

Rob790 · July 16, 2008 9:56AM

<< Any estimates of how many of these exist? All I have seen says a 'few' are known to exist. Cheers, RickO >>

For the 1944 S, there are only 2 known!

1944 P - 27

1944 D - less than 10 according to the auction.

They also have a 1944 steel. A nice pair for someone.

1944 1C --Struck on a Steel Planchet, Cleaned--ANACS. Unc Details, Net AU50.

seanq · July 16, 2008 12:08PM

FYI, the reason there are so many Philly mint 1944 steel cents known is that they were striking a minor coin for Belgium(not France) on the same planchets used for the US cents the previous year. Technically any 1944 Philly steel cent should be labeled "Struck on a Belgium 2 Franc Planchet" (I can't remember the denomination...) rather than "Struck on a steel cent planchet". The off-metals from Denver and San Fran would have to be on left-over steel cent planchets since those mints did not use those planchets in 1944.

I also have to say I'm shocked at the strike quality on the 1944-S steel cent pictured, my understanding was that any genuine 1944 Steel cent would be poorly struck because the dies were calibrated to strike softer copper planchets. By the same logic any 1943 copper cent should be just hammered as the dies were calibrated to strike steel.

Sean Reynolds

Thanks to Daniel and Fred for correcting my memory above!

adamlaneus · July 16, 2008 12:16PM

I see how this happens. Hundreds of millions of these steel planchets go through the mint in 1943. They must have been everywhere, as close to a billion were made in total.

So, next year in 1944, it's not surprising to me that a few are around, hiding in crevices, waiting to join the new years batch of copper planchets. I bet that far more than 2 1944 steel 'S' cents were made, this is merely how many have been discovered.

Or they swept up real good on the new year in San Francisco.

But, that hit on the 't' in states kills this coin for me. Personally, i'd hold out for the other one, it's probably in better shape.

[edit] This is one of those 'house' coins, isn't it?

tightbudget · July 16, 2008 12:19PM

<< I see how this happens. Hundreds of millions of these steel planchets go through the mint in 1943. They must have been everywhere, as close to a billion were made in total.

So, next year in 1944, it's not surprising to me that a few are around, hiding in crevices, waiting to join the new years batch of copper planchets. I bet that far more than 2 1944 steel 'S' cents were made, this is merely how many have been discovered.

Or they swept up real good on the new year in San Francisco.

But, that hit on the 't' in states kills this coin for me. Personally, i'd hold out for the other one, it's probably in better shape. >>

The other 44-S I think is a damaged XF.

lloydmincy · July 16, 2008 12:28PM

That 1944 steel philly coin is mine, BTW. I love it as one of my favorite 1944 steelies... but decided with no reserve to let some collector have one of the off-metal beauties that I think are just as great as the 1943 coppers - (without the fanfair and press!!!) ..

Yes it is not close to the "S" in auction. But that 1944-S to me is quite amazing and in a class by itself. When I first looked at it - I thought it wasn't genuine because it was so darn PERFECT!!! Where has it been all these years???

That think will go for $250,000 - you watch. I still can't believe how many rarities come out of the wood work we don't know about. Amazing....

Overdate · July 16, 2008 12:58PM

I have several steel cents that are a year older, so shouldn't they be worth more?

ColonialCoinUnion · July 16, 2008 12:59PM

<< I still can't believe how many rarities come out of the wood work we don't know about. Amazing.... >>

Shocking, even.

timcoin · July 16, 2008 1:06PM

WOW is right. WOW, WOW, WOW. WOWWOW. Nice photo too. I guess Heritage uses different imaging techniques based on a coin's value. Which is something I have been meaning to ask. Why is it that their printed catalog images are so nice and cropped, but their online images are uncropped and less attractive?

seanq · July 16, 2008 1:28PM

<< I see how this happens. Hundreds of millions of these steel planchets go through the mint in 1943. They must have been everywhere, as close to a billion were made in total.

So, next year in 1944, it's not surprising to me that a few are around, hiding in crevices, waiting to join the new years batch of copper planchets. I bet that far more than 2 1944 steel 'S' cents were made, this is merely how many have been discovered.

Or they swept up real good on the new year in San Francisco. >>

Not to pick on you, but... did you even read my post before you made yours? There's no way that "far more" 1944-S steel cents are waiting to be discovered, they are too distinct to go unnoticed. Now there may be more than two in the world, but if there are then those examples were plucked from circulation decades ago and are sitting in someone's jewelry or safety deposit box.

As far as the Mint's control over planchets during a composition change, think about this: there are as many 1944-S steel cents known as there are 1946 nickels from all three mints struck on silver planchets. A silver planchet would not be something you could easily inspect visually in a batch of CU-Ni nickels, compared to a steel cent in a hopper full of copper planchets, so you would think there would be lots of them too.... but there aren't. The only reason there are so many Philly examples is because the Philly mint was still striking steel planchets for France.

Honestly, the only way I could see a 1944-S cent existing with that strong a strike and in that state of preservation is if it had help. Not that it will (or should, really) matter a bit to the new owner, it's still an amazing coin.

Sean Reynolds

dcarr · July 16, 2008 2:14PM

<< FYI, the reason there are so many Philly mint 1944 steel cents known is that they were striking a minor coin for France on the same planchets used for the US cents the previous year. Technically any 1944 Philly steel cent should be labeled "Struck on a France ____ Planchet" (I can't remember the denomination...) rather than "Struck on a steel cent planchet". The off-metals from Denver and San Fran would have to be on left-over steel cent planchets since those mints did not use those planchets in 1944. >>

I believe what you are referring to is not a French coin, but rather the 1944 Belgium 2-Francs coin, KM #133.

<< I also have to say I'm shocked at the strike quality on the 1944-S steel cent pictured, my understanding was that any genuine 1944 Steel cent would be poorly struck because the dies were calibrated to strike softer copper planchets. By the same logic any 1943 copper cent should be just hammered as the dies were calibrated to strike steel. >>

Modern US Mint coin presses are knuckle-joint presses, which are not unlike a piston in a car engine. Regardless of the hardness of the planchet, the press will either "squeeze" the planchet to the determined thickness, or some component in the system will fail. A pair of dies stamping bronze blanks would probably not suffer any adverse affects from striking a couple harder blanks in the process. Striking a large quantity of harder blanks would cause accelerated die wear/erosion. I'm not surprised that this 1944-S steel cent is just as well struck as the bronze cents struck immediatley before and after it.

adamlaneus · July 16, 2008 2:24PM

<< FYI, the reason there are so many Philly mint 1944 steel cents known is that they were striking a minor coin for France on the same planchets used for the US cents the previous year. Technically any 1944 Philly steel cent should be labeled "Struck on a France ____ Planchet" (I can't remember the denomination...) rather than "Struck on a steel cent planchet". The off-metals from Denver and San Fran would have to be on left-over steel cent planchets since those mints did not use those planchets in 1944. >>

The number of 1943 cents the philadelphia mint made relative to denver was about 3:1. This is roughly the same ratio of 1944 steel cents found between philadelphia and denver.
Could the number of cents found not also be explained by the size of the operation?

Although your explanation sounds valid for Philadelphia, it does nothing to explain Denver versus San Francisco. I wonder why so few from 'S'. Was the operation very small. It would not take very many cents hiding away in the world to bring the number 2 closer to 10. And they look so much like 1943 cents, too.

So, yes I read your post. But I am a person that questions things.

[edit] The reverse of this coin is absolutely fascinating and you can pick up on the color on the obverse as well. It certainly looks like it has been around copper! That is a pretty unique effect.

seanq · July 16, 2008 2:40PM

Adam,

I think I misread your earlier post a little, so I apologize for the tone of my initial reply.

I recall reading the known population of 1944-D steel cents as 7 coins, just for the sake of argument I'll use that number. I don't know that statistically there's a huge difference between 2 and 7 coins out of a population of hundreds of millions, it's still an amazingly small number which could be traced back to a single tote or press. Oddly, if you look at the population of 1943 copper cents, the Denver coin is the rarest with only a single example known, versus around a dozen San Fran and maybe 20 Philly examples.

I also agree with you that there very likely could be more than two 1944-S steel cents in existence, where I'd nitpick is with your statement that they are waiting to be "discovered." In my opinion they are waiting to be "rediscovered" after being put away for ages; I don't think we'll read about someone finding an example in a freshly cracked OBW roll or in a bag of unsearched wheat cents. I'll say this, though - if the coin in the OP sells for $250,000 as another person suggested, we'll hear about any other previously unknown examples pretty darn quick.

Sean Reynolds

FredWeinberg · July 17, 2008 12:15AM

Sean, I think you mean Belgium, not France for the Steel Planchets.

The Mint struck 1944 Belgian 2-Franc coins on leftover 1943
U.S. Steel Cent planchets

lloydmincy · July 17, 2008 12:35AM

<<The number of 1943 cents the philadelphia mint made relative to denver was about 3:1. This is roughly the same ratio of 1944 steel cents found between philadelphia and denver.
Could the number of cents found not also be explained by the size of the operation?>>

Has nothing to do with it - this is just a coincidence. The planchet bags should have been EMPTY when adding the new (different metal) planchets. Laziness or poor quality control at the mint left some of these off-metal planchets in the "empty" bags. In a perfect working environment at the mint, there would have been NO off-metal cents in 1943 or 1944.

But that 1944-S in its preserved state. Seems like that one could have been made on purpose!!!

lloydmincy · July 17, 2008 9:41AM

I'm high bidder, but so what. This will sell for MOON money!!!!

timcoin · July 17, 2008 9:44AM

<< I'm high bidder, but so what. This will sell for MOON money!!!! >>

The more it goes for the better for the winner. I know that doesn't really make sense, but the more it goes for, the more valuable it will be when it sells again in five years or so. Great coin for an investor, imo.

Edited to add: WOW!

Rob790 · July 17, 2008 10:33AM

<< I'm high bidder, but so what. This will sell for MOON money!!!! >>

$172,500 !!! ... sounds like moon money to me!

Congrats and good luck. I think this is already a record price for any 1944 steel cent.

Does the 1943 d Copper the have the highest hammer price so far of any Lincoln Cent? I think it went for about $230k?

If your estimate of $250k stands, this could this coin be the new highest priced Lincoln cent so far.

I noticed the 1859 double headed cent is also up for sale and it's currently at $161k.... boy, have cents become expensive!

Rob790 · July 17, 2008 11:22AM

<< Personally, i'd hold out for the other one, it's probably in better shape. >>

Last one sold in 1983, that's 25 years. You may be in for a loooonnnggg long wait there.

lloydmincy · July 18, 2008 12:09AM

<>

You could of won it at auction 8 years ago for $32,000. Legand and Laura Sperber won it, sold it, and she loved it and wished she still had it. (from what I have heard). She may get it back for a client. I think it is one of the more amazing mules. There is another "mule" for sale at Stacks with an 1858 Flying Eagle Obv, and an 1864 IHC Obv (Judd 362). Another cool one...

7Jaguars · July 18, 2008 1:22AM

Darkside, here we come! I mean I can think of unique specimens of currency strike on popular countries that are not errors that would go for 40% of this.

mojoman · July 18, 2008 3:19AM

Here is mine the photo is not as good as I would like it to be

adamlaneus · July 18, 2008 11:59AM

Today, as I put a nice red BU 1944 S cent into my Dansco album, I am reminded of this very cool coin...

ProofRainbowRoosevelt · July 18, 2008 3:09PM

It's made of steel... I don't get it. I know it's rare, but it is not that appealing. Last time I checked, steel was at 132.00 a ton. Give a chinaman a ton of steel, and for 50k I bet he could make a replica. Quick.

Nevermind... for 50k you could get 500 chinamen.

lloydmincy · July 23, 2008 3:09AM

Over $200,000, and not near the auction. It is apparently appealing to someone. I was "appealed", but now outbid. It is rare, with a story, came out of nowhere, and an error, etc. That is why it is appealing. For example, I wouldnt even look at a 1944-s Copper. No offense. I have never seen one, and will not go out of my way to see one. I know there are tons of them. Not appealing...

Jcarney · July 23, 2008 3:43AM

<< Laziness or poor quality control at the mint left some of these off-metal planchets in the "empty" bags. >>

Sheesh. A few off-metal planchet errors out of 100s of millions constitutes laziness? Their 6 sigma number would be fabulous with this small number of errors.

Rob790 · July 23, 2008 3:57AM

<< Over $200,000, and not near the auction. It is apparently appealing to someone. I was "appealed", but now outbid. It is rare, with a story, came out of nowhere, and an error, etc. That is why it is appealing. For example, I wouldnt even look at a 1944-s Copper. No offense. I have never seen one, and will not go out of my way to see one. I know there are tons of them. Not appealing... >>

Sounds like a record breaker. Does anyone have a picture of the other 1944 s in XF??

lloydmincy · July 23, 2008 4:23AM

Maybe "laziness" isn't the correct word, but seriously- all they had to do was make sure the bags were EMPTY!!! But, then again, SO WHAT if a few planchets escaped and were left in the bags to create these errors? Stories and hoopla, etc. , make these things collectables, and the highest bidder wins!!!

Stories and history are just one of the many great aspects about coin collecting.

Rob790 · July 23, 2008 5:44AM

<< Today, as I put a nice red BU 1944 S cent into my Dansco album, I am reminded of this very cool coin... >>

Any pictures?

compromonedas · August 1, 2008 2:05AM

WOW!!!!!
Sold for: $373,750.00!!!!!!

Keith

seanq · August 1, 2008 2:15AM

<< 

<< I see how this happens. Hundreds of millions of these steel planchets go through the mint in 1943. They must have been everywhere, as close to a billion were made in total.

So, next year in 1944, it's not surprising to me that a few are around, hiding in crevices, waiting to join the new years batch of copper planchets. I bet that far more than 2 1944 steel 'S' cents were made, this is merely how many have been discovered.

Or they swept up real good on the new year in San Francisco. >>

Not to pick on you, but... did you even read my post before you made yours? There's no way that "far more" 1944-S steel cents are waiting to be discovered, they are too distinct to go unnoticed. Now there may be more than two in the world, but if there are then those examples were plucked from circulation decades ago and are sitting in someone's jewelry or safety deposit box. >>

Kinda like this one.

Found in change in 1944, and sat in a SDB until the owner did in 1996. Expect that $373k price to flush out a few more 1943/1944 off-metals like the one in the article I just linked.

Sean Reynolds

1944 s STEEL Lincoln Cent in Baltimore!!! WOW!!!

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