What players that retired 5-15 years ago SHOULD be in the HOF but...

DawgsGoneWild · July 16, 2008 5:58AM

are not?

Mark McGwire
Andre Dawson
Dale Murphy (2 time MVP)
Mark Grace (eligible this year)

Who else? Jack Morris?

bhl2359 · July 16, 2008 5:59AM

Mark Grace in the Baseball HOF? Huh?

DawgsGoneWild · July 16, 2008 6:03AM

Grace HOF

Here is the statistical argument for him...but then that will lead to the "live ball / Steroids era" argument.

leathtech · July 16, 2008 6:08AM

Grace was one of the best hitters of the 90's... not sure if that will every be enough to get in. To bad he could not get to the magical 3,000 hits. If he would have stuck around like Biggio he'd be in for sure.

Andre Dawson should get in - if he would have played the bulk of his career some where besides Canada he'd be in too!

jamesryanbell · July 16, 2008 6:08AM

Bert Blyleven

bhl2359 · July 16, 2008 6:09AM

He and Keith Hernandez have similar stats, except Hernadez has 11 gold gloves to 4 for Grace, shared an MVP award, and played in New York. And I don't think he has a chance to get in either.

DawgsGoneWild · July 16, 2008 6:12AM

And I can live with no Dale Murphy as the Braves are going to have an influx of players going in over the next 10 years:

In order of should get in...

1. Maddux
2. Smoltz
3. Chipper
4. Glavine

leathtech · July 16, 2008 6:14AM

“Decade Hit Leader.” - This is an interesting reason why Gracie should get in:

As it is well known, Mark led the major leagues in hits during the decade of the 1990’s. All other 20th century decade hit leaders have been elected to the Hall of Fame, with the exception of Pete Rose, who was banned from HOF eligibility.

jeffcbay · July 16, 2008 6:16AM

The players who are eligible that I think should be in are: Jim Rice, Mark McGwire, and Don Mattingly.

Here is a list of eligible players starting in 2009, I made the players bold who I think SHOULD be first-ballot Hall of Famers:

* 2009: Steve Avery, Jay Bell, Mike Bordick, John Burkett, David Cone, Ron Gant, Mark Grace, Rickey Henderson, Todd Hundley, Orlando Merced, Charles Nagy, Denny Neagle, Jesse Orosco, Dean Palmer, Dan Plesac, Rick Reed, Greg Vaughn, Mo Vaughn, Matt Williams

* 2010: Roberto Alomar, Kevin Appier, Andy Ashby, Ellis Burks, Dave Burba, Andres Galarraga, Pat Hentgen, Mike Jackson, Eric Karros, Ray Lankford, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Mark McLemore, Shane Reynolds, David Segui, Robin Ventura, Fernando Vina, Todd Zeile

* 2011: Wilson Alvarez, Carlos Baerga, Jeff Bagwell, Bret Boone, Kevin Brown, Cal Eldred, John Franco, Juan Gonzalez, Marquis Grissom, Bobby Higginson, Charles Johnson, Al Leiter, Tino Martinez, Raul Mondesi, Jose Offerman, John Olerud, Rafael Palmeiro, Paul Quantrill, Steve Reed, Kirk Rueter, Rey Sanchez, Benito Santiago, B.J. Surhoff, Ugueth Urbina, Ismael Valdez, Larry Walker, Dan Wilson

* 2012: Pedro Astacio, David Bell, Jeromy Burnitz, Vinny Castilla, Scott Erickson, Carl Everett, Jeff Fassero, Alex S. Gonzalez, Danny Graves, Rick Helling, Dustin Hermanson, Jose Hernandez, Brian Jordan, Matt Lawton, Bill Mueller, Terry Mulholland, Jeff Nelson, Phil Nevin, Brad Radke, Joe Randa, Tim Salmon, Ruben Sierra, J.T. Snow, Jose Vizcaino, Bernie Williams, Eric Young

* 2013: Sandy Alomar Jr., Craig Biggio, Barry Bonds, Jeff Cirillo, Royce Clayton, Roger Clemens, Jeff Conine, Steve Finley, Julio Franco, Shawn Green, Ryan Klesko, Mike Lieberthal, Kenny Lofton, Jose Mesa, Damian Miller, Eric Milton, Russ Ortiz, Neifi Perez, Mike Piazza, Reggie Sanders, Aaron Sele, Mike Stanton, Todd Walker, David Wells, Rondell White, Bob Wickman, Woody Williams

VitoCo1972 · July 16, 2008 6:21AM

<< The players who are eligible that I think should be in are: Jim Rice, Mark McGwire, and Don Mattingly.

Here is a list of eligible players starting in 2009, I made the players bold who I think SHOULD be first-ballot Hall of Famers:

* 2009: Steve Avery, Jay Bell, Mike Bordick, John Burkett, David Cone, Ron Gant, Mark Grace, Rickey Henderson, Todd Hundley, Orlando Merced, Charles Nagy, Denny Neagle, Jesse Orosco, Dean Palmer, Dan Plesac, Rick Reed, Greg Vaughn, Mo Vaughn, Matt Williams

* 2010: Roberto Alomar, Kevin Appier, Andy Ashby, Ellis Burks, Dave Burba, Andres Galarraga, Pat Hentgen, Mike Jackson, Eric Karros, Ray Lankford, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Mark McLemore, Shane Reynolds, David Segui, Robin Ventura, Fernando Vina, Todd Zeile

* 2011: Wilson Alvarez, Carlos Baerga, Jeff Bagwell, Bret Boone, Kevin Brown, Cal Eldred, John Franco, Juan Gonzalez, Marquis Grissom, Bobby Higginson, Charles Johnson, Al Leiter, Tino Martinez, Raul Mondesi, Jose Offerman, John Olerud, Rafael Palmeiro, Paul Quantrill, Steve Reed, Kirk Rueter, Rey Sanchez, Benito Santiago, B.J. Surhoff, Ugueth Urbina, Ismael Valdez, Larry Walker, Dan Wilson

* 2012: Pedro Astacio, David Bell, Jeromy Burnitz, Vinny Castilla, Scott Erickson, Carl Everett, Jeff Fassero, Alex S. Gonzalez, Danny Graves, Rick Helling, Dustin Hermanson, Jose Hernandez, Brian Jordan, Matt Lawton, Bill Mueller, Terry Mulholland, Jeff Nelson, Phil Nevin, Brad Radke, Joe Randa, Tim Salmon, Ruben Sierra, J.T. Snow, Jose Vizcaino, Bernie Williams, Eric Young

* 2013: Sandy Alomar Jr., Craig Biggio, Barry Bonds, Jeff Cirillo, Royce Clayton, Roger Clemens, Jeff Conine, Steve Finley, Julio Franco, Shawn Green, Ryan Klesko, Mike Lieberthal, Kenny Lofton, Jose Mesa, Damian Miller, Eric Milton, Russ Ortiz, Neifi Perez, Mike Piazza, Reggie Sanders, Aaron Sele, Mike Stanton, Todd Walker, David Wells, Rondell White, Bob Wickman, Woody Williams >>

I'm glad you didn't bold Biggio. I'm sorry but this is the hall of FAME, not the hall of excellent players at their position(s). Biggio was never one of the best players in his own league - and really wasn't ever the best player on his own team. Was he ever top 10 in baseball in terms of position players for more than a 5 year period? That's where I start to think of Hall of Fame. I had the same notion about Palmiero before the steroid thing. He wasn't one of the top 10 guys I would have started a team with for any given 5 year period.

fkw · July 16, 2008 6:22AM

None,............... there is actually too many HOFers from the last 5-15 years

fur72 · July 16, 2008 6:26AM

Dawson and Dale Murphy get my vote.

fur72 · July 16, 2008 6:29AM

<< And I can live with no Dale Murphy as the Braves are going to have an influx of players going in over the next 10 years:

In order of should get in...

1. Maddux
2. Smoltz
3. Chipper
4. Glavine >>

Bet Glavine doesnt make it. Smoltz may be iffy too.

Ists easy to say so and so will make it. I remember people talking about Dawson asking him what cap he would go into the HOF with. Well he is hanging in there but no dice yet. The HOF is the best of the best.

boiler75 · July 16, 2008 6:38AM

Should be in:
1. Tim Raines - Suffers from comparison to contemporary Rickey Henderson, but ranks among greatest lead-off hitters of all time with Henderson and Brock.
2. Bert Blyleven - Complete game (242) and shutout (60) numbers combined with win total and excellent ERA should get him in.
3. Mark McGwire
4. Rafael Palmeiro - If others from the "steroid era" are going in, then he belongs. He has better numbers than McGwire in almost every category and was not just a power hitter as his 3020 hits attest.

Could be in:
1. Jack Morris
2. Dennis Martinez - Look at his numbers; you'll probably be surprised.
3. Barry Larkin - Like Raines with Rickey, fails in comparison to Ozzie, but taken on his own had borderline Hall-worthy career.
4. Andre Dawson

Shouldn't be in: (I use what I call the "Rangers Test", i.e. if these players put up the same career numbers in Texas, would they be HOFers)
1. Jim Rice
2. Don Mattingly
3. Dale Murphy
4. Mark Grace - Until this thread, I never even considered him.

DrJ · July 16, 2008 6:44AM

<< 

<< And I can live with no Dale Murphy as the Braves are going to have an influx of players going in over the next 10 years:

In order of should get in...

1. Maddux
2. Smoltz
3. Chipper
4. Glavine >>

Bet Glavine doesnt make it. Smoltz may be iffy too.

Ists easy to say so and so will make it. I remember people talking about Dawson asking him what cap he would go into the HOF with. Well he is hanging in there but no dice yet. The HOF is the best of the best. >>

Glavine is a lock with 300 wins and 2 Cy Youngs. Smoltz is on the iffy side with only 200 wins andd only a few good years of closing.

boiler75 · July 16, 2008 6:46AM

Bet Glavine doesnt make it. Smoltz may be iffy too.

300 game winners with a career ERA of 3.50 and 10 all-star game appearances usually make it (Glavine).

Smoltz' 200+ wins as a starter, combined with his three year dominance as a closer and his excellent postseason performances (2.65 ERA in 40 starts), make him a solid choice for Cooperstown as well.

VitoCo1972 · July 16, 2008 6:47AM

Smoltz is not iffy for the same reason Biggio should be iffy...Smoltz was one of the 5 best pitchers in MLB for 10 years.

DawgsGoneWild · July 16, 2008 6:53AM

<< 

<< 

<< And I can live with no Dale Murphy as the Braves are going to have an influx of players going in over the next 10 years:

Glavine is a lock with 300 wins and 2 Cy Youngs. Smoltz is on the iffy side with only 200 wins andd only a few good years of closing. >>

Check Smoltz's career K's, ERA, WHIP compared to Glavine. Last time I checked, Smoltz had the most wins in the history of post season baseball. Cy Young....3000+ K's....200+wins + 150+ Saves.....he is in over Glavine.

DawgsGoneWild · July 16, 2008 6:54AM

Smoltz should be a first ballot guy...he is the best of the best...much more so than Glavine....

Check Smoltz's career K's, ERA, WHIP compared to Glavine. Last time I checked, Smoltz had the most wins in the history of post season baseball. Cy Young....3000+ K's....200+wins + 150+ Saves.....he is in over Glavine.

zep33 · July 16, 2008 6:59AM

Ham Joshington

fur72 · July 16, 2008 7:06AM

There are alot of best of the best who dont make it. It all depends who is up to go in that year. As a Cub fan and my hero being Ryne Sandberg I think he only made it because it was a down year for HOF voting, not much of a first timer class that year. Sutter finally made it after a poor first timer class. Its not as easy as it sounds....

BobaFett72 · July 16, 2008 7:10AM

Mark McGwire -------------Nope, not gonna happen, one dimensional disgraced steroid abuser. If he had come clean and grown a set of balls in front of congress maybe the voters would have some respect for him.

Andre Dawson------i think he makes it.
Dale Murphy (2 time MVP)-----one of the classiest guys in baseball and truly dominant for a 10 year period, he might make it.

Mark Grace (eligible this year)---------------nope, but he can into the hall of good, not the hall of fame.

Who else? Jack Morris? ------------nope. good pitcher, not one of the all time greats.

drewsef · July 16, 2008 7:14AM

Derrick Thomas

boiler75 · July 16, 2008 7:15AM

jeffcbay - Curious as to if you think Alomar is a HOFer since you don't think he deserves to go in on the first ballot. Unless I'm forgetting someone (which is quite possible), he was the best in the game at his position for most of his career. A lifetime .300 hitter with 2700+ hits and 10 Gold Gloves would seem to indicate he belongs when compared to the 2B already in the Hall.

BobaFett72 · July 16, 2008 7:19AM

Roberto Alomar should be in the HOF; easily one of the best 2nd baseman in the last 20 years.

also: "Check Smoltz's career K's, ERA, WHIP compared to Glavine. Last time I checked, Smoltz had the most wins in the history of post season baseball. Cy Young....3000+ K's....200+wins + 150+ Saves.....he is in over Glavine."

both Glavine and Smoltz get in; Glavines got the magic numbers; cy young, etc. Smoltz dominated as both a starter and reliever, cy young, post season god. he's in.

before any of these guys go in.... Blyleven should get his plaque; Ron Santo should be in the HOF before Mark grace lol and thats even with Grace buying his admission ticket.

11235813 · July 16, 2008 7:26AM

I think that Alomar, Larkin, Dawson, Murphy, Morris & Blyleven should all be in.

Guys who should not be in include Raines, Palmiero, McGwire, Biggio, and Bagwell.

And how do you keep Omar Vizquel out when the time comes given that Ozzie & Aparicio are in?

vintagechris · July 16, 2008 7:34AM

Raines and Dawson. Just look at Raines #'s. All the numbers. He was a great player. Will Chipper Jones get in? His career #'s aren't as great as I would think. I guess he missed a lot of games because of injuries.

NCDOLFAN · July 16, 2008 7:38AM

Mark Mcgwire should be in the Hall BOBO because he used steroids to get back in the game after his back injuries. It also needs to be noted that although steroids are illegal now, in 1994-97 they weren't in baseball. Secondly he never lied about taking them, he was called to testify about the general use in baseball, and since he was already retired, redirected the commission question about him to what the hearing was really about which was the future. Lastly, Mark was always a home run hitter and a huge man to start, he didn't need to bulk up, he needed to help heal his injuries the way the rest of us normal people can use doctor perscribed steroids. You may want to grow a pair and find Mr. Mcgwire and quote yourself to him face to face... but then again, assassins usually come from behind.

boiler75 · July 16, 2008 7:43AM

<< And how do you keep Omar Vizquel out when the time comes given that Ozzie & Aparicio are in? >>

Vizquel will get in eventually (though he probably needs to retire first). His offensive numbers are better than the Wizard's overall, though Smith's ability on the basepaths made him a different type of threat. Vizquel has a better fielding %, but what set Ozzie apart was his range, as evidenced by his current 875+ advantage in assists while having played over 100 fewer games.

<< Just look at Raines #'s. All the numbers. He was a great player. >>

Amen! Raines' numbers compare very favorably with similar players already in the hall (Ex.: Lou Brock). If only he hadn't played at the same time as Henderson, or better yet, if he had spent the better part of his career in pinstripes instead of playing north of the border.

cpettimd · July 16, 2008 8:24AM

Raines, Dawson, and Rice should get in.

markj111 · July 16, 2008 8:28AM

markj111 · July 16, 2008 8:33AM

[
Bet Glavine doesnt make it. Smoltz may be iffy too.

Ists easy to say so and so will make it. I remember people talking about Dawson asking him what cap he would go into the HOF with. Well he is hanging in there but no dice yet. The HOF is the best of the best. >>

Glavine will not get in????? Are you nuts. I would love to make a wager on that one. Best players not in (but eligible) include Raines, Blyleven, Santo and Grich. I am sure I missed someone.

Grace belongs in the hall of the pretty good. FWIW, Bill James said Murcer was better than Dawson. Also, IMHO Biggio will go in very early, perhaps the first ballot.

jeffcbay · July 16, 2008 8:42AM

<< jeffcbay - Curious as to if you think Alomar is a HOFer since you don't think he deserves to go in on the first ballot. Unless I'm forgetting someone (which is quite possible), he was the best in the game at his position for most of his career. A lifetime .300 hitter with 2700+ hits and 10 Gold Gloves would seem to indicate he belongs when compared to the 2B already in the Hall. >>

I think Alomar deserves to be in, but I'm afraid he'll be one of those players that takes a couple years...

CDsNuts · July 16, 2008 8:45AM

Gary Gaetti.

Buccaneer · July 16, 2008 9:02AM

<< None,............... there is actually too many HOFers from the last 5-15 years >>

I agree. It's been getting better the past few years thought. As much as Sutter and Gossage are marginal, at least there were only 1 that year and this.

AragornTheBold · July 16, 2008 9:33AM

If Barry Bonds goes into the Hall of Fame I will have lost all respect for the word "baseball" itself

JVette · July 16, 2008 9:54AM

I would love to see Alan Trammel and Lou Whitaker inducted as a team on a single plaque. I know it would never happen. Both have border line stats for the Hall - combine that with how long they played together - and they have to be considered one of the best, if not THE best keystone combo of all time.

- Jack

JackWESQ · July 16, 2008 10:02AM

Okay folks, try this on for size ...

3020 Hits
569 HRs
1835 RBIs
1663 Runs
585 2Bs
97 3Bs

With these career numbers, we should be arguing about how close this player will come to getting 100% of the vote. However, since these numbers belong to Rafael Palmeiro, we're more likely to arguing whether he'll get 5% of the vote and stay on the ballot.

/s/ JackWESQ

fandango · July 16, 2008 10:28AM

No way Grace would get in if Mattingly were not in....

Mattingly was The Top Player for 4 years , Grace was Never the best, good, but Never The Best Like Mattingly...

Estil · July 16, 2008 10:45AM

You forgot Bert Blyleven; if 3000 hits is an automatic bid for the HOF, then so too should 3000 K's for a pitcher (3701 in his case). And don't forget his 287 wins and 60 career shutouts. Nowadays you're lucky if you even get 10 complete games in a career (much less shutouts).

WinPitcher · July 16, 2008 11:00AM

Jim Kaat

Steve

hofautos · July 16, 2008 11:01AM

these are the only 2 that should be in that aren't

Estil · July 16, 2008 11:06AM

Biggio should most definetly make the first ballot. All the other 3000 hit guys did (since 1962); why should he be any different?

hofautos · July 16, 2008 11:08AM

<< Biggio should most definetly make the first ballot. All the other 3000 hit guys did (since 1962); why should he be any different? >>

biggio will be a first ballot hofer (but the thread says that retired 5-15 years ago)?

Estil · July 16, 2008 11:15AM

<< 

<< Biggio should most definetly make the first ballot. All the other 3000 hit guys did (since 1962); why should he be any different? >>

biggio will be a first ballot hofer (but the thread says that retired 5-15 years ago)? >>

I'm talking about the ones here who don't think he should go in on the first ballot.

hofautos · July 16, 2008 11:23AM

<< 

<< 

<< Biggio should most definetly make the first ballot. All the other 3000 hit guys did (since 1962); why should he be any different? >>

biggio will be a first ballot hofer (but the thread says that retired 5-15 years ago)? >>

I'm talking about the ones here who don't think he should go in on the first ballot. >>

They don't know what they are talking about...

ndleo · July 16, 2008 11:36AM

I would like to see some of the clean power hitters from the 1980's and 1990's to get consideration for the Hall of Fame. Andre Dawson would be my first choice since he could do it all, average, power, steal bases, and field. The only reason he is not considered a lock is because he played in Montreal. Plus he was really cool to me at a card show in Detroit when I was 13 years old.

Roberto Alomar could have been a lock, but I think he should be borderline for not getting 3000 hits. He had over 2500 hits at age 34 and couldn't get a lousy 125 hits for 4 more years?

How about Edgar Martinez? He had a late start but finished with decent numbers and was considered the best DH of his time.

stevegarveyfan · July 16, 2008 11:41AM

Steve Garvey and Bert Blyleven

vintagechris · July 16, 2008 11:41AM

Blyleven had the nastiest curve I have ever seen!

DavidPuddy · July 16, 2008 11:49AM

I know it's been 20 years, but I believe Ted Simmons should be in the Hall. Unless the veterans commitee get it's act together Ted still has no shot.

BobaFett72 · July 16, 2008 11:53AM

People forget about Ted Simmons...he compares very favorably to his catching peers.

" I would like to see some of the clean power hitters from the 1980's and 1990's to get consideration for the Hall of Fame."

for me thats folks like Dale Murphy, Fred McGriff and Joe Carter

What players that retired 5-15 years ago SHOULD be in the HOF but...

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