<< <i>Here is why....PandaAmerica is operated out of greed and little else. >>
While your attempt to profit was entirely altruistic, right?
Don't get me wrong- I've got nothing against making a buck, but if you're going to try to do that yourself, it seems somewhat inconsistent to complain when others do likewise.
<< <i>Here is why....PandaAmerica is operated out of greed and little else. >>
While your attempt to profit was entirely altruistic, right?
Don't get me wrong- I've got nothing against making a buck, but if you're going to try to do that yourself, it seems somewhat inconsistent to complain when others do likewise. >>
I tried to distribute the profits....PandaAmerica tried to grab ALL the profits. Big difference!
i am not sure why people keep missing the fact it was a 1 cent starting auction. gecko did not price it that way.. it was bid up. gecko could have very well lost his pants on it.
Many collectors are tired of extreme lowball offers from some dealers. Gecko expresses publicly these frustrations, and gets ripped for it. I don't get it.
"College men from LSU- went in dumb, come out dumb too..." -Randy Newman
I give some REAL WORLD examples of my experiences with dealers and then I get slammed by the group of dealers that lurk here. Its not suprising, in fact its more of an expectation. Dealers have a self preservation instinct, and guys like myself who demonstrate the shady tactics of certain dealers with a refreshing honesty based in FACTS are a threat to those dealers. The basic fact is this....the dealers think that only THEY are entitled to massive profits. And often times those massive profits should come at the hands of collector's losses. They feel this way because they are "in business" with high "overhead". In reality, those are simply buzzwords to make the meekest of collectors collectively sigh an apathetic "ok". The truth is that if you want to be respected as a DEALER, start treating your clientele with equal parts of respect. Im tired of all the dealers I have encountered who just want to go for the "long ball" time and again. Just rip you as much as they can get away with. There is ZERO reason or justification why this country's single largest distributor and dealer of gold panda coins, Panda America, should be hyping, and selling a gold bullion coin as a "key date" an asking almost double melt value, yet offering to buy the same coin for just melt. That is simply PURE GREED and a complete lack of respect to the collectors who buy, or have bought from them in the past. Its a slap in the face. They are basically saying "this is a rare and valuable coin, unless you are trying to sell it to me, in which case its worth only its gold content". Enough of the lies and decieit and hype. If you conduct your business in that manner, expect an educated, intelligent person to expose those unfair, unethical practices.
This may well be one of the single most moronic threads I've ever read - and I regularly read fark.com...
<< <i>I give some REAL WORLD examples of my experiences with dealers and then I get slammed by the group of dealers that lurk here. Its not suprising, in fact its more of an expectation. Dealers have a self preservation instinct, and guys like myself who demonstrate the shady tactics of certain dealers with a refreshing honesty based in FACTS are a threat to those dealers. The basic fact is this....the dealers think that only THEY are entitled to massive profits. >>
You sir are the one that seems to feel some level of entitlement. As a dealer of widgets... Today I will buy widget Q at $10, and I will sell it at $40. If you are attempting to sell me widget Q at $20 because you feel that $20 is a "fair" profit margin for me to make, after I have told you my buy price, I will more than happily remind you where the door you came in through is located -- and I will most likely recommend you not bother attempting to sell me anything from a widget to a whizbang ever again.
<< <i>And often times those massive profits should come at the hands of collector's losses. They feel this way because they are "in business" with high "overhead". In reality, those are simply buzzwords to make the meekest of collectors collectively sigh an apathetic "ok". >>
This part is actually less moronic than simply frighteningly humorous. "Business" and "overhead" are buzzwords? Seriously... were I a coin dealer, and not someone who works for "the man" (how is that for a buzzword?), I wouldn't keep you out of my store because you attempted to make good deals for yourself but because you apparently don't live in any state of reality.
<< <i>The truth is that if you want to be respected as a DEALER, start treating your clientele with equal parts of respect. >>
Equal parts of respect... and... what?
<< <i>Im tired of all the dealers I have encountered who just want to go for the "long ball" time and again. Just rip you as much as they can get away with. There is ZERO reason or justification why this country's single largest distributor and dealer of gold panda coins, Panda America, should be hyping, and selling a gold bullion coin as a "key date" an asking almost double melt value, yet offering to buy the same coin for just melt. >>
Do you honestly think they do a lot of buying? Obviously there is a market for their product at the price they sell it at -- otherwise it wouldn't sell. But, as you have so brilliantly purchased them at whatever price you paid - I would assume it was over melt. So you sir, placed a premium of your own on the product over its native value. Now, for some reason I simply cannot fathom, you are here to show us all that you are bummed because Panda America places less value on their product than you (and the rest of the market) do. Basically you've come here to tell us you feel like an idiot for placing too much value on an item.
<< <i>That is simply PURE GREED and a complete lack of respect to the collectors who buy, or have bought from them in the past. Its a slap in the face. They are basically saying "this is a rare and valuable coin, unless you are trying to sell it to me, in which case its worth only its gold content". Enough of the lies and decieit and hype. If you conduct your business in that manner, expect an educated, intelligent person to expose those unfair, unethical practices. >>
No it is a "free market". What they are doing is generating a limit number of a product. They are then letting the market decide its value. If no one bought the product its value would decrease until the market decided it was fair. You -- an "educated, intelligent person" -- purchased that product at a price that you apparently thought was fair at time of purchase. Your expectation of being able to resell it to a very specific entity at a very specific price is a little thing called a "sense of entitlement" or "stupidity" -- take your pick.
<< <i>This may well be one of the single most moronic threads I've ever read - and I regularly read fark.com...
<< <i>I give some REAL WORLD examples of my experiences with dealers and then I get slammed by the group of dealers that lurk here. Its not suprising, in fact its more of an expectation. Dealers have a self preservation instinct, and guys like myself who demonstrate the shady tactics of certain dealers with a refreshing honesty based in FACTS are a threat to those dealers. The basic fact is this....the dealers think that only THEY are entitled to massive profits. >>
You sir are the one that seems to feel some level of entitlement. As a dealer of widgets... Today I will buy widget Q at $10, and I will sell it at $40. If you are attempting to sell me widget Q at $20 because you feel that $20 is a "fair" profit margin for me to make, after I have told you my buy price, I will more than happily remind you where the door you came in through is located -- and I will most likely recommend you not bother attempting to sell me anything from a widget to a whizbang ever again.
<< <i>And often times those massive profits should come at the hands of collector's losses. They feel this way because they are "in business" with high "overhead". In reality, those are simply buzzwords to make the meekest of collectors collectively sigh an apathetic "ok". >>
This part is actually less moronic than simply frighteningly humorous. "Business" and "overhead" are buzzwords? Seriously... were I a coin dealer, and not someone who works for "the man" (how is that for a buzzword?), I wouldn't keep you out of my store because you attempted to make good deals for yourself but because you apparently don't live in any state of reality.
<< <i>The truth is that if you want to be respected as a DEALER, start treating your clientele with equal parts of respect. >>
Equal parts of respect... and... what?
<< <i>Im tired of all the dealers I have encountered who just want to go for the "long ball" time and again. Just rip you as much as they can get away with. There is ZERO reason or justification why this country's single largest distributor and dealer of gold panda coins, Panda America, should be hyping, and selling a gold bullion coin as a "key date" an asking almost double melt value, yet offering to buy the same coin for just melt. >>
Do you honestly think they do a lot of buying? Obviously there is a market for their product at the price they sell it at -- otherwise it wouldn't sell. But, as you have so brilliantly purchased them at whatever price you paid - I would assume it was over melt. So you sir, placed a premium of your own on the product over its native value. Now, for some reason I simply cannot fathom, you are here to show us all that you are bummed because Panda America places less value on their product than you (and the rest of the market) do. Basically you've come here to tell us you feel like an idiot for placing too much value on an item.
<< <i>That is simply PURE GREED and a complete lack of respect to the collectors who buy, or have bought from them in the past. Its a slap in the face. They are basically saying "this is a rare and valuable coin, unless you are trying to sell it to me, in which case its worth only its gold content". Enough of the lies and decieit and hype. If you conduct your business in that manner, expect an educated, intelligent person to expose those unfair, unethical practices. >>
No it is a "free market". What they are doing is generating a limit number of a product. They are then letting the market decide its value. If no one bought the product its value would decrease until the market decided it was fair. You -- an "educated, intelligent person" -- purchased that product at a price that you apparently thought was fair at time of purchase. Your expectation of being able to resell it to a very specific entity at a very specific price is a little thing called a "sense of entitlement" or "stupidity" -- take your pick. >>
Hey guy. Let me try to bring you up to speed. That same coin PandaAmerica offered to buy from me for $920 just sold on ebay tonight for $1969. Please tell me how I "placed too much value" on this item. Try a little harder next time you want to make me look like the idiot.
<< <i>i am not sure why people keep missing the fact it was a 1 cent starting auction. gecko did not price it that way.. it was bid up. gecko could have very well lost his pants on it. >>
No one is missing that.....that has nothing to do with his rant (and, gold is up a bit since the initial post anyway....seems everyone is missing that as well ).
The ebay auction has NOTHING to do with the slamming and dislike he has for dealers.
<< <i>Many collectors are tired of extreme lowball offers from some dealers. Gecko expresses publicly these frustrations, and gets ripped for it. I don't get it. >>
Sounds like he did indeed get a lowball offer. he takes every negative he can ever dig up on a dealer and runs and posts, "See, i told you all dealers are scums". People have a little problem with his logic--oops, what logic? I misspoke.
And remember, you're only getting one side of the story. I can't vouch for pandamerica but I did go to a show looking for some generic saints for a customer and pandamerica had the best price. And boy did I rip that customer. i bought the saints for $1200 and sold them for $1800 same day. What a rip!!!* --jerry
* just trying to give gecko a heart attack. Actually I charged them $35 on a $2400 purchase since I was at the show anyway and was selling this coutomer some other coins.
<< <i>Hey guy. Let me try to bring you up to speed. That same coin PandaAmerica offered to buy from me for $920 just sold on ebay tonight for $1969. Please tell me how I "placed too much value" on this item. Try a little harder next time you want to make me look like the idiot. >>
You did a fine job of that on your own - but, now that you made bank on one coin deal you aren't an idiot? Please. Your Bizarro World ideas of how the world should work clearly place you on the fringe.
<< <i>Hey guy. Let me try to bring you up to speed. That same coin PandaAmerica offered to buy from me for $920 just sold on ebay tonight for $1969. Please tell me how I "placed too much value" on this item. Try a little harder next time you want to make me look like the idiot. >>
You did a fine job of that on your own - but, now that you made bank on one coin deal you aren't an idiot? Please. Your Bizarro World ideas of how the world should work clearly place you on the fringe. >>
Hey newguy.....YOU are the one who said I "placed too much value" on said item.....or was that someone else who said that? Maybe im confused.
I suppose I'm supposed to take offense at... newguy.... however, it seems to me if you are the "old guard" here, then this place is in serious need of new blood.
But to your point, what I did was reiterate your feeling of being of not being offered what you thought was a fair price by Panda America. If you knew you could make bank on them then you'd have no complaints at all on what Panda America offered you - they'd just be stupid, not crooks. But the fact is that until you had someone else think for you - you were afraid that you had paid too much because what Panda America offered did not meet what you felt you were entitled to. Yes, you felt you may have placed too much value on them - up to the point that a grading company reassured you that you could make even more of a premium over their intrinsic gold value. Even more than what Panda America makes off them.
Then, after you've started a thread to complain about a company that "rips" in their sales and basically creates a false market - you actually have the audacity to come and back to the forum and gloat that you've just succeeded in facilitating the false market you were just slamming at the start of the thread.
I asked the dealer how much he wanted, he gave me the price, I bought them. Seems fair to me.
And you told another dealer how much you wanted and he passed.Seems fair to me.The problem here is a failure to recognize that what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
I just figured out that gecko is comparing apples and oranges. He offered pandamerica a raw coin and then had it graded and sold it on ebay. He din't offer them the MS69 PCGS coin. edit: BTW, MS69 is the top grade for this coin. Think of this as sending in a raw coin and getting a 70.
Whenever I'm offered raw bullion my buy price is very low unless I can inspect them or I know the person and trust them. For all Pandamerica knew this coin could have been thoroughly cleaned by a well-intentioned grandmother and her polishing cloth. Before gecko can reply that he told them they were perfect let me say that all sellers make that claim...and wow, I've seen some junk. --Jerry
So I decided to look at gold pandas on ebay--looks like ther is money to be made. I see gecko bought another "key date panda" for not much above melt this weekend. If it grades well expect to see another "Dealers are lower than a snake's belly" thread. --jerry
If you don't like what someone offers you, move on to the next deal, simple as that. If everyone started a thread to whine about an insulting offer he or she received, the CU server would surely crash. Sheesh!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Phil -- Pandamerica wasn't looking for a partner to "share the profits" any more than you were looking to share the profits with your eBay buyer. Your argument would make more sense to me if you listed the coin as a BIN at 150% of your purchase price or refunded the buyer a substantial portion of what he agreed to pay (which was almost 200% of your cost). But, of course, you didn't look at the buyer as your partner. Instead, you were looking to maximize your own take. Pandamerica didn't want to partner with you, that's all; and it was their loss. Good for you (really)!
....when they offer $920 for the same coin on their website thats listed for $1726,...
Who cares what it lists for? The market for your "coin" is a hype market.Get as much as you can while you can.Investment? Hardly.You should quit your whining about the Panda people and do the right thing which is to partially refund the ebay buyer who paid you an excessive amount for your bullion item. Set an example,in other words, and then maybe you can be taken seriously.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
<< <i>This may well be one of the single most moronic threads I've ever read - and I regularly read fark.com...
<< <i>I give some REAL WORLD examples of my experiences with dealers and then I get slammed by the group of dealers that lurk here. Its not suprising, in fact its more of an expectation. Dealers have a self preservation instinct, and guys like myself who demonstrate the shady tactics of certain dealers with a refreshing honesty based in FACTS are a threat to those dealers. The basic fact is this....the dealers think that only THEY are entitled to massive profits. >>
You sir are the one that seems to feel some level of entitlement. As a dealer of widgets... Today I will buy widget Q at $10, and I will sell it at $40. If you are attempting to sell me widget Q at $20 because you feel that $20 is a "fair" profit margin for me to make, after I have told you my buy price, I will more than happily remind you where the door you came in through is located -- and I will most likely recommend you not bother attempting to sell me anything from a widget to a whizbang ever again.
<< <i>And often times those massive profits should come at the hands of collector's losses. They feel this way because they are "in business" with high "overhead". In reality, those are simply buzzwords to make the meekest of collectors collectively sigh an apathetic "ok". >>
This part is actually less moronic than simply frighteningly humorous. "Business" and "overhead" are buzzwords? Seriously... were I a coin dealer, and not someone who works for "the man" (how is that for a buzzword?), I wouldn't keep you out of my store because you attempted to make good deals for yourself but because you apparently don't live in any state of reality.
<< <i>The truth is that if you want to be respected as a DEALER, start treating your clientele with equal parts of respect. >>
Equal parts of respect... and... what?
<< <i>Im tired of all the dealers I have encountered who just want to go for the "long ball" time and again. Just rip you as much as they can get away with. There is ZERO reason or justification why this country's single largest distributor and dealer of gold panda coins, Panda America, should be hyping, and selling a gold bullion coin as a "key date" an asking almost double melt value, yet offering to buy the same coin for just melt. >>
Do you honestly think they do a lot of buying? Obviously there is a market for their product at the price they sell it at -- otherwise it wouldn't sell. But, as you have so brilliantly purchased them at whatever price you paid - I would assume it was over melt. So you sir, placed a premium of your own on the product over its native value. Now, for some reason I simply cannot fathom, you are here to show us all that you are bummed because Panda America places less value on their product than you (and the rest of the market) do. Basically you've come here to tell us you feel like an idiot for placing too much value on an item.
<< <i>That is simply PURE GREED and a complete lack of respect to the collectors who buy, or have bought from them in the past. Its a slap in the face. They are basically saying "this is a rare and valuable coin, unless you are trying to sell it to me, in which case its worth only its gold content". Enough of the lies and decieit and hype. If you conduct your business in that manner, expect an educated, intelligent person to expose those unfair, unethical practices. >>
No it is a "free market". What they are doing is generating a limit number of a product. They are then letting the market decide its value. If no one bought the product its value would decrease until the market decided it was fair. You -- an "educated, intelligent person" -- purchased that product at a price that you apparently thought was fair at time of purchase. Your expectation of being able to resell it to a very specific entity at a very specific price is a little thing called a "sense of entitlement" or "stupidity" -- take your pick. >>
Hey guy. Let me try to bring you up to speed. That same coin PandaAmerica offered to buy from me for $920 just sold on ebay tonight for $1969. Please tell me how I "placed too much value" on this item. Try a little harder next time you want to make me look like the idiot. >>
While I respect at least part of the point that you are trying to make - that dealers make seemingly "unfair" lowball offers - you do not need this or any other poster to make you look like an idiot. Respectfully and without malice, BBE.
<< <i>....when they offer $920 for the same coin on their website thats listed for $1726,...
Who cares what it lists for? The market for your "coin" is a hype market.Get as much as you can while you can.Investment? Hardly.You should quit your whining about the Panda people and do the right thing which is to partially refund the ebay buyer who paid you an excessive amount for your bullion item. Set an example,in other words, and then maybe you can be taken seriously. >>
By that logic, anyone who sells a 1995-W ASE for say $4,000 should refund their customer $3,970 then, correct? Its "just bullion".
Edited to add: Likewise with the MANY people from this forum who are making a killing on the '08/reverse of '07 ASE. So whats so different from my sale?
ummm....... when you try to sell something sometimes you have to go beyond the obvious in your market research...... besides eBay and choosing a company that has the product you are selling in their name that is..... A company has been offering to pay $1250 for this coin if sealed fresh for a couple months now on a major dealer trading network. I don't want to self promote so I won't say who....
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
John, Access to the dealer network costs money. That's overhead. Gecko has no overhead. He has repeatedly purposely ignored the overhead costs that dealers have in his rants. --Jerry
<< <i>John, Access to the dealer network costs money. That's overhead. Gecko has no overhead. He has repeatedly purposely ignored the overhead costs that dealers have in his rants. --Jerry >>
You are right Jerry, I have no overhead. In fact, all the local dealers I deal with just drive over to my house and show me what they have for sale. Its really cool, I dont have to spend an entire day driving to 6 different stores and spend $60-$70 worth of gas only to come up empty on new purchases. You truly are BRILLIANT Jerry.
<< <i>John, Access to the dealer network costs money. That's overhead. Gecko has no overhead. He has repeatedly purposely ignored the overhead costs that dealers have in his rants. --Jerry >>
You are right Jerry, I have no overhead. In fact, all the local dealers I deal with just drive over to my house and show me what they have for sale. Its really cool, I dont have to spend an entire day driving to 6 different stores and spend $60-$70 worth of gas only to come up empty on new purchases. You truly are BRILLIANT Jerry. >>
Ok. I've called you out on enough BS. I think I'm done now. I see that I've truly conviced you of my wisdom and you've seen the light. Thanks for the affirmation. Getting praise from guys like you is what makes being a part of this great forum worth it. My work is done here. --Jerry
<< <i>I just figured out that gecko is comparing apples and oranges. He offered pandamerica a raw coin and then had it graded and sold it on ebay. He din't offer them the MS69 PCGS coin. edit: BTW, MS69 is the top grade for this coin. Think of this as sending in a raw coin and getting a 70.
Whenever I'm offered raw bullion my buy price is very low unless I can inspect them or I know the person and trust them. For all Pandamerica knew this coin could have been thoroughly cleaned by a well-intentioned grandmother and her polishing cloth. Before gecko can reply that he told them they were perfect let me say that all sellers make that claim...and wow, I've seen some junk. --Jerry >>
This is the same thing I was going to post. (I think I already did, about 4 or 5 pages back)
In some people's eyes, you can win any argument if you bend the facts in your favor.
I figure I might as well give my opinion, although no-one asked.
The point of the original poster was that a specialist dealer only offered him melt plus a tiny percentage for coins offered on that dealer's website for a significant premium. The implication is that the coins were actually worth more than bullion because of low mintage.
This points to a significant dishonesty in that dealer's business, and buyer beware.
Gecko buys coins raw for 3% over melt, and PandaAmerica offers to buy for 2% over melt.
Gecko sold the coin for over $1000 profit, but PandaAmerica's spread was around $850.
They're terrible dealers, and Gecko is a blameless little guy.
Do you think the person who Gecko ripped agrees? Has Gecko heard of the word hypocricy? Has Gecko ever owned a business?
Just wondering....Mike >>
First of all, I sold the coin with a 1 cent starting bid and no reserve. I did not hold a gun to anyone's head to bid on my item. The coin brought exactly what the market would bear, it brought its FULL FAIR VALUE. I did not ask for $1969 for the coin, thats just what the highest bidder estimated its worth at. Secondly, I "ripped" nobody. I aquired the coins from my regular bullion dealer at the normal spot +3% just as always. He gave me his asking price, I paid in full. Thirdly, PandaAmerica offered me about half of what the coin is actually worth, HALF! Next time you go to Dick Osburne, or Julian Leidman, or Rick Snow with something to sell that is SPECIFICALLY their specialty, you come back and tell me they offered you HALF of the fair market value on that particular piece. They simply wont do that because they are stand-up dealers who realize selling/buying is a 2 way street and not just a ripfest as PandaAmerica obviously thinks.
Gecko buys coins raw for 3% over melt, and PandaAmerica offers to buy for 2% over melt.
Gecko sold the coin for over $1000 profit, but PandaAmerica's spread was around $850.
They're terrible dealers, and Gecko is a blameless little guy.
Do you think the person who Gecko ripped agrees? Has Gecko heard of the word hypocricy? Has Gecko ever owned a business?
Just wondering....Mike >>
First of all, I sold the coin with a 1 cent starting bid and no reserve. I did not hold a gun to anyone's head to bid on my item. The coin brought exactly what the market would bear, it brought its FULL FAIR VALUE. I did not ask for $1969 for the coin, thats just what the highest bidder estimated its worth at. Secondly, I "ripped" nobody. I aquired the coins from my regular bullion dealer at the normal spot +3% just as always. He gave me his asking price, I paid in full. Thirdly, PandaAmerica offered me about half of what the coin is actually worth, HALF! Next time you go to Dick Osburne, or Julian Leidman, or Rick Snow with something to sell that is SPECIFICALLY their specialty, you come back and tell me they offered you HALF of the fair market value on that particular piece. They simply wont do that because they are stand-up dealers who realize selling/buying is a 2 way street and not just a ripfest as PandaAmerica obviously thinks. >>
Nobody held a gun to your head when PandaAmerica made their offer either.
Tell me, did you tell your regular bullion dealer how much you sold their coin for? I didn't think so.
You ripped your bullion dealer (sight seen), and you're pissed becaues PandaAmerica tried to rip you (sight unseen). It is just as simple as that.
That, sir, is the definition of a hypocrite.
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
"You ripped your bullion dealer, and you're pissed becaues PandaAmerica tried to rip you."
How did I "rip" him when for the past 4 years I have bought well in excess of $30,000 in bullion from him at his asking price of 3% over melt? Did hundreds of you "rip" the U.S. Mint when you bought your 2008/reverse 07 ASE's at $24.95 a pop?
<< <i>Was $30k supposed to impress me? It doesn't.
To answer your question, you ripped him because you purchased a coin worth between $1500 and $2k for 3% over melt.
You are a hypocrite because you got pissed when PandaAmerica tried to do the same thing.
Do you understand now? >>
Would you feel insulted if you brought a 2008/reverse 07 to a famous national dealer and he offered you $150 for it? Did you feel like you "ripped" the U.S. Mint when you bought that coin for $24.95?
Oh and by the way, $30,000 is a HELL of alot of business for a dealer when its coming from a regular Joe Shmoe collector.
<< <i>Was $30k supposed to impress me? It doesn't.
To answer your question, you ripped him because you purchased a coin worth between $1500 and $2k for 3% over melt.
You are a hypocrite because you got pissed when PandaAmerica tried to do the same thing.
Do you understand now? >>
Would you feel insulted if you brought a 2008/reverse 07 to a famous national dealer and he offered you $150 for it? Did you feel like you "ripped" the U.S. Mint when you bought that coin for $24.95?
Oh and by the way, $30,000 is a HELL of alot of business for a dealer when its coming from a regular Joe Shmoe collector. >>
No, I wouldn't feel insulted, because I understand the difference between a sight seen and sight unseen bid, and I am not ignorant of the games dealers play in buy/sell spreads. I would simply walk away and take my business elsewhere, not post a thread about it and expose the hypocricy in my argument.
And for your information, I didn't buy any SAEs from the mint, I don't flip coins, and unlike you I don't look at this hobby as a profit center or a way to make money to fund new purchases -- but keep on trying to point the finger everywhere but where it belongs....squarely at your hypocritical self...Mike
p.s. if you are buying $30k of bullion, and flipping things for profit, you're not exactly a regular "Joe Shmoe collector", and furthermore the buy/sell spread for $30k of gold is peanuts -- probably doesn't even pay the dealer's rent for one month. You know, that overhead thing.
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
Oh and by the way, $30,000 is a HELL of alot of business for a dealer when its coming from a regular Joe Shmoe collector. >>
Over 4 years, that's $7.5k each year, $625 a month, which (at the 6% profit he makes) is $37.50 per month for your dealer, before expenses. It's a decent number, but not a "hell of a lot".
Oh and by the way, $30,000 is a HELL of alot of business for a dealer when its coming from a regular Joe Shmoe collector. >>
Over 4 years, that's $7.5k each year, $625 a month, which (at the 6% profit he makes) is $37.50 per month for your dealer, before expenses. That's not much. >>
As a dealer GEN , I bet you can count on just one hand (maybe even a single finger) exactly how many COLLECTORS (not dealers) have spent $625 per month, every month, for the past 4 years on your stuff.
Now tell me again thats not ALOT of business coming from a COLLECTOR.
That's not a lot of business, and you're not merely a collector -- you are an ingorant, hypocritical flipper who doesn't like it when others play the same game you are playing.
Do you understand yet?
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
<< <i>So don't do business with Panda America. Geez Louise! >>
Remember, you've only gotten half the story here. I would never write someone off as dishonest based on one side of a story from a...well, you know.
The coins were offered to Pandamerica Raw. Whenever a dealer buys raw coins they either need to be with conditions based on in-hand inspection or near melt. We don't know how the discussion went but they ended up at near melt. For all PA knew, the coins could have shown up cleaned, etc. --Jerry
<< <i>So don't do business with Panda America. Geez Louise! >>
Remember, you've only gotten half the story here. I would never write someone off as dishonest based on one side of a story from a...well, you know.
The coins were offered to Pandamerica Raw. Whenever a dealer buys raw coins they either need to be with conditions based on in-hand inspection or near melt. We don't know how the discussion went but they ended up at near melt. For all PA knew, the coins could have shown up cleaned, etc. --Jerry >>
Precisely.
Apparently, Gecko needs an education between a sight-seen and sight-unseen bid.
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
Oh and by the way, $30,000 is a HELL of alot of business for a dealer when its coming from a regular Joe Shmoe collector. >>
Over 4 years, that's $7.5k each year, $625 a month, which (at the 6% profit he makes) is $37.50 per month for your dealer, before expenses. That's not much. >>
As a dealer GEN , I bet you can count on just one hand (maybe even a single finger) exactly how many COLLECTORS (not dealers) have spent $625 per month, every month, for the past 4 years on your stuff.
Now tell me again thats not ALOT of business coming from a COLLECTOR. >>
$625 doesn't mean anything. In the end, the only number that matters is profit margin.
Your right that I can only count the number of customers who consistently spend $625 a month with my fingers. But I'd need multiple sets of fingers and toes to count the number of people I'm able to make $40 a month from.
Comments
<< <i>Here is why....PandaAmerica is operated out of greed and little else. >>
While your attempt to profit was entirely altruistic, right?
Don't get me wrong- I've got nothing against making a buck, but if you're going to try to do that yourself, it seems somewhat inconsistent to complain when others do likewise.
<< <i>
<< <i>Here is why....PandaAmerica is operated out of greed and little else. >>
While your attempt to profit was entirely altruistic, right?
Don't get me wrong- I've got nothing against making a buck, but if you're going to try to do that yourself, it seems somewhat inconsistent to complain when others do likewise. >>
I tried to distribute the profits....PandaAmerica tried to grab ALL the profits. Big difference!
<< <i>I tried to distribute the profits....PandaAmerica tried to grab ALL the profits. Big difference!
If you say so.
auction. gecko did not price it that way.. it was bid up. gecko could have
very well lost his pants on it.
-Randy Newman
<< <i>I give some REAL WORLD examples of my experiences with dealers and then I get slammed by the group of dealers that lurk here. Its not suprising, in fact its more of an expectation. Dealers have a self preservation instinct, and guys like myself who demonstrate the shady tactics of certain dealers with a refreshing honesty based in FACTS are a threat to those dealers. The basic fact is this....the dealers think that only THEY are entitled to massive profits. >>
You sir are the one that seems to feel some level of entitlement. As a dealer of widgets... Today I will buy widget Q at $10, and I will sell it at $40. If you are attempting to sell me widget Q at $20 because you feel that $20 is a "fair" profit margin for me to make, after I have told you my buy price, I will more than happily remind you where the door you came in through is located -- and I will most likely recommend you not bother attempting to sell me anything from a widget to a whizbang ever again.
<< <i>And often times those massive profits should come at the hands of collector's losses. They feel this way because they are "in business" with high "overhead". In reality, those are simply buzzwords to make the meekest of collectors collectively sigh an apathetic "ok". >>
This part is actually less moronic than simply frighteningly humorous. "Business" and "overhead" are buzzwords? Seriously... were I a coin dealer, and not someone who works for "the man" (how is that for a buzzword?), I wouldn't keep you out of my store because you attempted to make good deals for yourself but because you apparently don't live in any state of reality.
<< <i>The truth is that if you want to be respected as a DEALER, start treating your clientele with equal parts of respect. >>
Equal parts of respect... and... what?
<< <i>Im tired of all the dealers I have encountered who just want to go for the "long ball" time and again. Just rip you as much as they can get away with. There is ZERO reason or justification why this country's single largest distributor and dealer of gold panda coins, Panda America, should be hyping, and selling a gold bullion coin as a "key date" an asking almost double melt value, yet offering to buy the same coin for just melt. >>
Do you honestly think they do a lot of buying? Obviously there is a market for their product at the price they sell it at -- otherwise it wouldn't sell. But, as you have so brilliantly purchased them at whatever price you paid - I would assume it was over melt. So you sir, placed a premium of your own on the product over its native value. Now, for some reason I simply cannot fathom, you are here to show us all that you are bummed because Panda America places less value on their product than you (and the rest of the market) do. Basically you've come here to tell us you feel like an idiot for placing too much value on an item.
<< <i>That is simply PURE GREED and a complete lack of respect to the collectors who buy, or have bought from them in the past. Its a slap in the face. They are basically saying "this is a rare and valuable coin, unless you are trying to sell it to me, in which case its worth only its gold content". Enough of the lies and decieit and hype. If you conduct your business in that manner, expect an educated, intelligent person to expose those unfair, unethical practices. >>
No it is a "free market". What they are doing is generating a limit number of a product. They are then letting the market decide its value. If no one bought the product its value would decrease until the market decided it was fair. You -- an "educated, intelligent person" -- purchased that product at a price that you apparently thought was fair at time of purchase. Your expectation of being able to resell it to a very specific entity at a very specific price is a little thing called a "sense of entitlement" or "stupidity" -- take your pick.
<< <i>This may well be one of the single most moronic threads I've ever read - and I regularly read fark.com...
<< <i>I give some REAL WORLD examples of my experiences with dealers and then I get slammed by the group of dealers that lurk here. Its not suprising, in fact its more of an expectation. Dealers have a self preservation instinct, and guys like myself who demonstrate the shady tactics of certain dealers with a refreshing honesty based in FACTS are a threat to those dealers. The basic fact is this....the dealers think that only THEY are entitled to massive profits. >>
You sir are the one that seems to feel some level of entitlement. As a dealer of widgets... Today I will buy widget Q at $10, and I will sell it at $40. If you are attempting to sell me widget Q at $20 because you feel that $20 is a "fair" profit margin for me to make, after I have told you my buy price, I will more than happily remind you where the door you came in through is located -- and I will most likely recommend you not bother attempting to sell me anything from a widget to a whizbang ever again.
<< <i>And often times those massive profits should come at the hands of collector's losses. They feel this way because they are "in business" with high "overhead". In reality, those are simply buzzwords to make the meekest of collectors collectively sigh an apathetic "ok". >>
This part is actually less moronic than simply frighteningly humorous. "Business" and "overhead" are buzzwords? Seriously... were I a coin dealer, and not someone who works for "the man" (how is that for a buzzword?), I wouldn't keep you out of my store because you attempted to make good deals for yourself but because you apparently don't live in any state of reality.
<< <i>The truth is that if you want to be respected as a DEALER, start treating your clientele with equal parts of respect. >>
Equal parts of respect... and... what?
<< <i>Im tired of all the dealers I have encountered who just want to go for the "long ball" time and again. Just rip you as much as they can get away with. There is ZERO reason or justification why this country's single largest distributor and dealer of gold panda coins, Panda America, should be hyping, and selling a gold bullion coin as a "key date" an asking almost double melt value, yet offering to buy the same coin for just melt. >>
Do you honestly think they do a lot of buying? Obviously there is a market for their product at the price they sell it at -- otherwise it wouldn't sell. But, as you have so brilliantly purchased them at whatever price you paid - I would assume it was over melt. So you sir, placed a premium of your own on the product over its native value. Now, for some reason I simply cannot fathom, you are here to show us all that you are bummed because Panda America places less value on their product than you (and the rest of the market) do. Basically you've come here to tell us you feel like an idiot for placing too much value on an item.
<< <i>That is simply PURE GREED and a complete lack of respect to the collectors who buy, or have bought from them in the past. Its a slap in the face. They are basically saying "this is a rare and valuable coin, unless you are trying to sell it to me, in which case its worth only its gold content". Enough of the lies and decieit and hype. If you conduct your business in that manner, expect an educated, intelligent person to expose those unfair, unethical practices. >>
No it is a "free market". What they are doing is generating a limit number of a product. They are then letting the market decide its value. If no one bought the product its value would decrease until the market decided it was fair. You -- an "educated, intelligent person" -- purchased that product at a price that you apparently thought was fair at time of purchase. Your expectation of being able to resell it to a very specific entity at a very specific price is a little thing called a "sense of entitlement" or "stupidity" -- take your pick. >>
Hey guy. Let me try to bring you up to speed. That same coin PandaAmerica offered to buy from me for $920 just sold on ebay tonight for $1969. Please tell me how I "placed too much value" on this item. Try a little harder next time you want to make me look like the idiot.
<< <i>i am not sure why people keep missing the fact it was a 1 cent starting
auction. gecko did not price it that way.. it was bid up. gecko could have
very well lost his pants on it. >>
No one is missing that.....that has nothing to do with his rant (and, gold is up a bit since the initial post anyway....seems everyone is missing that as well
The ebay auction has NOTHING to do with the slamming and dislike he has for dealers.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Many collectors are tired of extreme lowball offers from some dealers. Gecko expresses publicly these frustrations, and gets ripped for it. I don't get it. >>
Sounds like he did indeed get a lowball offer. he takes every negative he can ever dig up on a dealer and runs and posts, "See, i told you all dealers are scums". People have a little problem with his logic--oops, what logic? I misspoke.
And remember, you're only getting one side of the story. I can't vouch for pandamerica but I did go to a show looking for some generic saints for a customer and pandamerica had the best price. And boy did I rip that customer. i bought the saints for $1200 and sold them for $1800 same day. What a rip!!!* --jerry
* just trying to give gecko a heart attack. Actually I charged them $35 on a $2400 purchase since I was at the show anyway and was selling this coutomer some other coins.
<< <i>Hey guy. Let me try to bring you up to speed. That same coin PandaAmerica offered to buy from me for $920 just sold on ebay tonight for $1969. Please tell me how I "placed too much value" on this item. Try a little harder next time you want to make me look like the idiot. >>
You did a fine job of that on your own - but, now that you made bank on one coin deal you aren't an idiot? Please. Your Bizarro World ideas of how the world should work clearly place you on the fringe.
<< <i>
<< <i>Hey guy. Let me try to bring you up to speed. That same coin PandaAmerica offered to buy from me for $920 just sold on ebay tonight for $1969. Please tell me how I "placed too much value" on this item. Try a little harder next time you want to make me look like the idiot. >>
You did a fine job of that on your own - but, now that you made bank on one coin deal you aren't an idiot? Please. Your Bizarro World ideas of how the world should work clearly place you on the fringe. >>
Hey newguy.....YOU are the one who said I "placed too much value" on said item.....or was that someone else who said that? Maybe im confused.
But to your point, what I did was reiterate your feeling of being of not being offered what you thought was a fair price by Panda America. If you knew you could make bank on them then you'd have no complaints at all on what Panda America offered you - they'd just be stupid, not crooks. But the fact is that until you had someone else think for you - you were afraid that you had paid too much because what Panda America offered did not meet what you felt you were entitled to. Yes, you felt you may have placed too much value on them - up to the point that a grading company reassured you that you could make even more of a premium over their intrinsic gold value. Even more than what Panda America makes off them.
Then, after you've started a thread to complain about a company that "rips" in their sales and basically creates a false market - you actually have the audacity to come and back to the forum and gloat that you've just succeeded in facilitating the false market you were just slamming at the start of the thread.
Truly astounding.
And you told another dealer how much you wanted and he passed.Seems fair to me.The problem here is a failure to recognize that what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
So when did companies like this start caring about how much profit you get?
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
Whenever I'm offered raw bullion my buy price is very low unless I can inspect them or I know the person and trust them. For all Pandamerica knew this coin could have been thoroughly cleaned by a well-intentioned grandmother and her polishing cloth. Before gecko can reply that he told them they were perfect let me say that all sellers make that claim...and wow, I've seen some junk. --Jerry
Another Gecko Panda Purchase
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Quarter oz. of gold for $290 including S&I.What a deal.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
Who cares what it lists for? The market for your "coin" is a hype market.Get as much as you can while you can.Investment? Hardly.You should quit your whining about the Panda people and do the right thing which is to partially refund the ebay buyer who paid you an excessive amount for your bullion item. Set an example,in other words, and then maybe you can be taken seriously.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
<< <i>
<< <i>This may well be one of the single most moronic threads I've ever read - and I regularly read fark.com...
<< <i>I give some REAL WORLD examples of my experiences with dealers and then I get slammed by the group of dealers that lurk here. Its not suprising, in fact its more of an expectation. Dealers have a self preservation instinct, and guys like myself who demonstrate the shady tactics of certain dealers with a refreshing honesty based in FACTS are a threat to those dealers. The basic fact is this....the dealers think that only THEY are entitled to massive profits. >>
You sir are the one that seems to feel some level of entitlement. As a dealer of widgets... Today I will buy widget Q at $10, and I will sell it at $40. If you are attempting to sell me widget Q at $20 because you feel that $20 is a "fair" profit margin for me to make, after I have told you my buy price, I will more than happily remind you where the door you came in through is located -- and I will most likely recommend you not bother attempting to sell me anything from a widget to a whizbang ever again.
<< <i>And often times those massive profits should come at the hands of collector's losses. They feel this way because they are "in business" with high "overhead". In reality, those are simply buzzwords to make the meekest of collectors collectively sigh an apathetic "ok". >>
This part is actually less moronic than simply frighteningly humorous. "Business" and "overhead" are buzzwords? Seriously... were I a coin dealer, and not someone who works for "the man" (how is that for a buzzword?), I wouldn't keep you out of my store because you attempted to make good deals for yourself but because you apparently don't live in any state of reality.
<< <i>The truth is that if you want to be respected as a DEALER, start treating your clientele with equal parts of respect. >>
Equal parts of respect... and... what?
<< <i>Im tired of all the dealers I have encountered who just want to go for the "long ball" time and again. Just rip you as much as they can get away with. There is ZERO reason or justification why this country's single largest distributor and dealer of gold panda coins, Panda America, should be hyping, and selling a gold bullion coin as a "key date" an asking almost double melt value, yet offering to buy the same coin for just melt. >>
Do you honestly think they do a lot of buying? Obviously there is a market for their product at the price they sell it at -- otherwise it wouldn't sell. But, as you have so brilliantly purchased them at whatever price you paid - I would assume it was over melt. So you sir, placed a premium of your own on the product over its native value. Now, for some reason I simply cannot fathom, you are here to show us all that you are bummed because Panda America places less value on their product than you (and the rest of the market) do. Basically you've come here to tell us you feel like an idiot for placing too much value on an item.
<< <i>That is simply PURE GREED and a complete lack of respect to the collectors who buy, or have bought from them in the past. Its a slap in the face. They are basically saying "this is a rare and valuable coin, unless you are trying to sell it to me, in which case its worth only its gold content". Enough of the lies and decieit and hype. If you conduct your business in that manner, expect an educated, intelligent person to expose those unfair, unethical practices. >>
No it is a "free market". What they are doing is generating a limit number of a product. They are then letting the market decide its value. If no one bought the product its value would decrease until the market decided it was fair. You -- an "educated, intelligent person" -- purchased that product at a price that you apparently thought was fair at time of purchase. Your expectation of being able to resell it to a very specific entity at a very specific price is a little thing called a "sense of entitlement" or "stupidity" -- take your pick. >>
Hey guy. Let me try to bring you up to speed. That same coin PandaAmerica offered to buy from me for $920 just sold on ebay tonight for $1969. Please tell me how I "placed too much value" on this item. Try a little harder next time you want to make me look like the idiot.
While I respect at least part of the point that you are trying to make - that dealers make seemingly "unfair" lowball offers - you do not need this or any other poster to make you look like an idiot. Respectfully and without malice, BBE.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>Should we read anything into gecko's absence? One of his threads poofed too. --Jerry >>
Yeah Jerry, its called a 24 hour work shift.
<< <i>....when they offer $920 for the same coin on their website thats listed for $1726,...
Who cares what it lists for? The market for your "coin" is a hype market.Get as much as you can while you can.Investment? Hardly.You should quit your whining about the Panda people and do the right thing which is to partially refund the ebay buyer who paid you an excessive amount for your bullion item. Set an example,in other words, and then maybe you can be taken seriously. >>
By that logic, anyone who sells a 1995-W ASE for say $4,000 should refund their customer $3,970 then, correct? Its "just bullion".
Edited to add: Likewise with the MANY people from this forum who are making a killing on the '08/reverse of '07 ASE. So whats so different from my sale?
A company has been offering to pay $1250 for this coin if sealed fresh for a couple months now on a major dealer trading network.
I don't want to self promote so I won't say who....
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
Access to the dealer network costs money. That's overhead. Gecko has no overhead. He has repeatedly purposely ignored the overhead costs that dealers have in his rants. --Jerry
<< <i>John,
Access to the dealer network costs money. That's overhead. Gecko has no overhead. He has repeatedly purposely ignored the overhead costs that dealers have in his rants. --Jerry >>
You are right Jerry, I have no overhead. In fact, all the local dealers I deal with just drive over to my house and show me what they have for sale. Its really cool, I dont have to spend an entire day driving to 6 different stores and spend $60-$70 worth of gas only to come up empty on new purchases. You truly are BRILLIANT Jerry.
<< <i>
<< <i>John, Access to the dealer network costs money. That's overhead. Gecko has no overhead. He has repeatedly purposely ignored the overhead costs that dealers have in his rants. --Jerry >>
You are right Jerry, I have no overhead. In fact, all the local dealers I deal with just drive over to my house and show me what they have for sale. Its really cool, I dont have to spend an entire day driving to 6 different stores and spend $60-$70 worth of gas only to come up empty on new purchases. You truly are BRILLIANT Jerry.
Ok. I've called you out on enough BS. I think I'm done now. I see that I've truly conviced you of my wisdom and you've seen the light. Thanks for the affirmation. Getting praise from guys like you is what makes being a part of this great forum worth it. My work is done here. --Jerry
<< <i>I just figured out that gecko is comparing apples and oranges. He offered pandamerica a raw coin and then had it graded and sold it on ebay. He din't offer them the MS69 PCGS coin. edit: BTW, MS69 is the top grade for this coin. Think of this as sending in a raw coin and getting a 70.
Whenever I'm offered raw bullion my buy price is very low unless I can inspect them or I know the person and trust them. For all Pandamerica knew this coin could have been thoroughly cleaned by a well-intentioned grandmother and her polishing cloth. Before gecko can reply that he told them they were perfect let me say that all sellers make that claim...and wow, I've seen some junk. --Jerry >>
This is the same thing I was going to post. (I think I already did, about 4 or 5 pages back)
In some people's eyes, you can win any argument if you bend the facts in your favor.
The point of the original poster was that a specialist dealer only offered him melt plus a tiny percentage for coins
offered on that dealer's website for a significant premium. The implication is that the coins were actually worth more than bullion because of low mintage.
This points to a significant dishonesty in that dealer's business, and buyer beware.
Gecko buys coins raw for 3% over melt, and PandaAmerica offers to buy for 2% over melt.
Gecko sold the coin for over $1000 profit, but PandaAmerica's spread was around $850.
They're terrible dealers, and Gecko is a blameless little guy.
Do you think the person who Gecko ripped agrees? Has Gecko heard of the word hypocricy? Has Gecko ever owned a business?
Just wondering....Mike
<< <i>Let me see if I got this right:
Gecko buys coins raw for 3% over melt, and PandaAmerica offers to buy for 2% over melt.
Gecko sold the coin for over $1000 profit, but PandaAmerica's spread was around $850.
They're terrible dealers, and Gecko is a blameless little guy.
Do you think the person who Gecko ripped agrees? Has Gecko heard of the word hypocricy? Has Gecko ever owned a business?
Just wondering....Mike >>
First of all, I sold the coin with a 1 cent starting bid and no reserve. I did not hold a gun to anyone's head to bid on my item. The coin brought exactly what the market would bear, it brought its FULL FAIR VALUE. I did not ask for $1969 for the coin, thats just what the highest bidder estimated its worth at. Secondly, I "ripped" nobody. I aquired the coins from my regular bullion dealer at the normal spot +3% just as always. He gave me his asking price, I paid in full. Thirdly, PandaAmerica offered me about half of what the coin is actually worth, HALF! Next time you go to Dick Osburne, or Julian Leidman, or Rick Snow with something to sell that is SPECIFICALLY their specialty, you come back and tell me they offered you HALF of the fair market value on that particular piece. They simply wont do that because they are stand-up dealers who realize selling/buying is a 2 way street and not just a ripfest as PandaAmerica obviously thinks.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
<< <i>So don't do business with Panda America. Geez Louise! >>
BINGO!
<< <i>
<< <i>Let me see if I got this right:
Gecko buys coins raw for 3% over melt, and PandaAmerica offers to buy for 2% over melt.
Gecko sold the coin for over $1000 profit, but PandaAmerica's spread was around $850.
They're terrible dealers, and Gecko is a blameless little guy.
Do you think the person who Gecko ripped agrees? Has Gecko heard of the word hypocricy? Has Gecko ever owned a business?
Just wondering....Mike >>
First of all, I sold the coin with a 1 cent starting bid and no reserve. I did not hold a gun to anyone's head to bid on my item. The coin brought exactly what the market would bear, it brought its FULL FAIR VALUE. I did not ask for $1969 for the coin, thats just what the highest bidder estimated its worth at. Secondly, I "ripped" nobody. I aquired the coins from my regular bullion dealer at the normal spot +3% just as always. He gave me his asking price, I paid in full. Thirdly, PandaAmerica offered me about half of what the coin is actually worth, HALF! Next time you go to Dick Osburne, or Julian Leidman, or Rick Snow with something to sell that is SPECIFICALLY their specialty, you come back and tell me they offered you HALF of the fair market value on that particular piece. They simply wont do that because they are stand-up dealers who realize selling/buying is a 2 way street and not just a ripfest as PandaAmerica obviously thinks. >>
Nobody held a gun to your head when PandaAmerica made their offer either.
Tell me, did you tell your regular bullion dealer how much you sold their coin for? I didn't think so.
You ripped your bullion dealer (sight seen), and you're pissed becaues PandaAmerica tried to rip you (sight unseen). It is just as simple as that.
That, sir, is the definition of a hypocrite.
How did I "rip" him when for the past 4 years I have bought well in excess of $30,000 in bullion from him at his asking price of 3% over melt? Did hundreds of you "rip" the U.S. Mint when you bought your 2008/reverse 07 ASE's at $24.95 a pop?
To answer your question, you ripped him because you purchased a coin worth between $1500 and $2k for 3% over melt.
You are a hypocrite because you got pissed when PandaAmerica tried to do the same thing.
Do you understand now?
<< <i>Do you understand now? >>
I do. Well said, Mike.
<< <i>Was $30k supposed to impress me? It doesn't.
To answer your question, you ripped him because you purchased a coin worth between $1500 and $2k for 3% over melt.
You are a hypocrite because you got pissed when PandaAmerica tried to do the same thing.
Do you understand now? >>
Would you feel insulted if you brought a 2008/reverse 07 to a famous national dealer and he offered you $150 for it? Did you feel like you "ripped" the U.S. Mint when you bought that coin for $24.95?
Oh and by the way, $30,000 is a HELL of alot of business for a dealer when its coming from a regular Joe Shmoe collector.
<< <i>
<< <i>Was $30k supposed to impress me? It doesn't.
To answer your question, you ripped him because you purchased a coin worth between $1500 and $2k for 3% over melt.
You are a hypocrite because you got pissed when PandaAmerica tried to do the same thing.
Do you understand now? >>
Would you feel insulted if you brought a 2008/reverse 07 to a famous national dealer and he offered you $150 for it? Did you feel like you "ripped" the U.S. Mint when you bought that coin for $24.95?
Oh and by the way, $30,000 is a HELL of alot of business for a dealer when its coming from a regular Joe Shmoe collector. >>
No, I wouldn't feel insulted, because I understand the difference between a sight seen and sight unseen bid, and I am not ignorant of the games dealers play in buy/sell spreads. I would simply walk away and take my business elsewhere, not post a thread about it and expose the hypocricy in my argument.
And for your information, I didn't buy any SAEs from the mint, I don't flip coins, and unlike you I don't look at this hobby as a profit center or a way to make money to fund new purchases -- but keep on trying to point the finger everywhere but where it belongs....squarely at your hypocritical self...Mike
p.s. if you are buying $30k of bullion, and flipping things for profit, you're not exactly a regular "Joe Shmoe collector", and furthermore the buy/sell spread for $30k of gold is peanuts -- probably doesn't even pay the dealer's rent for one month. You know, that overhead thing.
<< <i>
Oh and by the way, $30,000 is a HELL of alot of business for a dealer when its coming from a regular Joe Shmoe collector. >>
Over 4 years, that's $7.5k each year, $625 a month, which (at the 6% profit he makes) is $37.50 per month for your dealer, before expenses. It's a decent number, but not a "hell of a lot".
<< <i>
<< <i>
Oh and by the way, $30,000 is a HELL of alot of business for a dealer when its coming from a regular Joe Shmoe collector. >>
Over 4 years, that's $7.5k each year, $625 a month, which (at the 6% profit he makes) is $37.50 per month for your dealer, before expenses. That's not much. >>
As a dealer GEN , I bet you can count on just one hand (maybe even a single finger) exactly how many COLLECTORS (not dealers) have spent $625 per month, every month, for the past 4 years on your stuff.
Now tell me again thats not ALOT of business coming from a COLLECTOR.
Do you understand yet?
<< <i>So don't do business with Panda America. Geez Louise! >>
Remember, you've only gotten half the story here. I would never write someone off as dishonest based on one side of a story from a...well, you know.
The coins were offered to Pandamerica Raw. Whenever a dealer buys raw coins they either need to be with conditions based on in-hand inspection or near melt. We don't know how the discussion went but they ended up at near melt. For all PA knew, the coins could have shown up cleaned, etc. --Jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>So don't do business with Panda America. Geez Louise! >>
Remember, you've only gotten half the story here. I would never write someone off as dishonest based on one side of a story from a...well, you know.
The coins were offered to Pandamerica Raw. Whenever a dealer buys raw coins they either need to be with conditions based on in-hand inspection or near melt. We don't know how the discussion went but they ended up at near melt. For all PA knew, the coins could have shown up cleaned, etc. --Jerry >>
Precisely.
Apparently, Gecko needs an education between a sight-seen and sight-unseen bid.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
Oh and by the way, $30,000 is a HELL of alot of business for a dealer when its coming from a regular Joe Shmoe collector. >>
Over 4 years, that's $7.5k each year, $625 a month, which (at the 6% profit he makes) is $37.50 per month for your dealer, before expenses. That's not much. >>
As a dealer GEN , I bet you can count on just one hand (maybe even a single finger) exactly how many COLLECTORS (not dealers) have spent $625 per month, every month, for the past 4 years on your stuff.
Now tell me again thats not ALOT of business coming from a COLLECTOR. >>
$625 doesn't mean anything. In the end, the only number that matters is profit margin.
Your right that I can only count the number of customers who consistently spend $625 a month with my fingers. But I'd need multiple sets of fingers and toes to count the number of people I'm able to make $40 a month from.