The guy I always buy these from operates on a 6% margin. I wonder how he does it, yet PandaAmerica needs to work on a 91% margin. Very confusing indeed
Of course it is very confusing to you as you have no idea what they need to operate.
By the way are you selling them for a 6% markup, like the 'guy' you buy them from?
<< <i>The guy I always buy these from operates on a 6% margin. I wonder how he does it, yet PandaAmerica needs to work on a 91% margin. Very confusing indeed
Of course it is very confusing to you as you have no idea what they need to operate.
By the way are you selling them for a 6% markup, like the 'guy' you buy them from?
Steve >>
Its just funny how my guy can work off a 6% mark-up but PandaAmerica feels the need to work off a 91% mark-up.
By the way, would you sell these at a 6% mark-up when they routinely sell for about a 75% mark-up?
Its just funny how my guy can work off a 6% mark-up but PandaAmerica feels the need to work off a 91% mark-up.
Yes you stated that at least 2 times now. we get it, your guy sells just above melt he can work off a 6% margin. Panda can't.
admit it, you want your cake and eat it too.
and if you paid 6% above melt how do they 'routinely' sell for a 75% markup? Oh I know, your 'guy' had no idea what they routinely sell for and you took advantage of him. Gotcha.
It's hard to imagine what you would do about something that really matters.
Now that's funny ! ! !
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
I'm normally neutral on events like this, but what I find strange is that this smells like the "hypothetical" event in your other thread. Usually when people have a "hypothetical" event to discuss, it really happened and they are trying to play slick. Somehow that just rubs me the wrong way.
<< <i>I'm normally neutral on events like this, but what I find strange is that this smells like the "hypothetical" event in your other thread. Usually when people have a "hypothetical" event to discuss, it really happened and they are trying to play slick. Somehow that just rubs me the wrong way.
<< <i>If it makes you feel any better, had I offered the coins to PandaAmerica I would probably have been offered the same price.
Back in February I tried to thin out our Panda inventory by offering anything that seemed to be a better date to a different foreign gold specialist that I have an excellent relation with. He apologetically said that with gold at these levels he was having a hard time selling better dates, and could only use three or four of the pieces I was offering him at any sort of premium. I decided that the premium on those pieces wasn't worth the bother, and still have the lot. If you want to come by, I'll see what I can do for you on some or all.
TD >>
Now, I wonder why gecko is "answering" later posts but ignoring this, logical, one????
<< <i>I'm normally neutral on events like this, but what I find strange is that this smells like the "hypothetical" event in your other thread. Usually when people have a "hypothetical" event to discuss, it really happened and they are trying to play slick. Somehow that just rubs me the wrong way.
<< <i>If it makes you feel any better, had I offered the coins to PandaAmerica I would probably have been offered the same price.
Back in February I tried to thin out our Panda inventory by offering anything that seemed to be a better date to a different foreign gold specialist that I have an excellent relation with. He apologetically said that with gold at these levels he was having a hard time selling better dates, and could only use three or four of the pieces I was offering him at any sort of premium. I decided that the premium on those pieces wasn't worth the bother, and still have the lot. If you want to come by, I'll see what I can do for you on some or all.
TD >>
Now, I wonder why gecko is "answering" later posts but ignoring this, logical, one???? >>
Didnt ignore that post in the least. In fact im in discussions with Tom in PM.
Geko- You complain when common date indian head cents are 215 dollars for 64 red. But if you were offered 2 at 100 dollars, you would sell the other at 215 if you could get it. I do not really blame you. But it makes you sound as greedy as the dealers you complain about. So you pay a little over melt for the pandas and want to sell them for the same price as a store with overhead, payroll, insurance but offer none of the service and believe you are entitled. Ebay the babies, uh pandas. I like to pay the same price dealers pay, and sell for the same prices they do myself.
I have a friend i call whosale retail. If you do something for him it has to be a super deal below cost, but when it comes time to repay the favor it has to be at retail for him.
Geko- What is your profession out of curiousity.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
<< <i>Geko- You complain when common date indian head cents are 215 dollars for 64 red. But if you were offered 2 at 100 dollars, you would sell the other at 215 if you could get it. I do not really blame you. But it makes you sound as greedy as the dealers you complain about. So you pay a little over melt for the pandas and want to sell them for the same price as a store with overhead, payroll, insurance but offer none of the service and believe you are entitled. Ebay the babies, uh pandas. I like to pay the same price dealers pay, and sell for the same prices they do myself.
I have a friend i call whosale retail. If you do something for him it has to be a super deal below cost, but when it comes time to repay the favor it has to be at retail for him.
Geko- What is your profession out of curiousity. >>
Actually I offered to sell not at the dealer price, but considerably lower (read OP again). Im a firefighter by the way.
Also, fwiw your BS earlier about accepting 23% was just that BS, that was a counteroffer.
You kept saying that your BM makes 6% so in case you are slow and need a hand here that is why I said you wanted them to buy at 5 - 10 % back of where they sell. But thanks for the math lesson nontheless.
You're doing exactly what you complain about others doing.
One other comment.....how can a 69 be worth such a premium if you buy 5 coins and believe that all 5 will grade 69. >>
Actually a PCGS 68 should probably sell at about $1500 give or take. So its really not "such a premium" as you put it. A raw one will sell at about $1350. The grading fees are just at the point where its worth a few bucks more in reselling the coin. And im simply complaining about dealer spreads. You think its fair to take in a raw coin at $920 only to resell at $1726? Thats quite a margin! If I can sell these at $1550 on ebay, i'd be HAPPY to take them in at $1200!!! After my fees for grading and the FVF, it should work out to be about a $190 profit. But if I could sell them from my own website at $1726 you better believe im a buyer at $1325! Thats a $401 profit on each coin. Multiply that by the 5 coins I bought, and I just pocketed a cool 2 grand. Im not the greedy one, PandaAmerica is.
<< <i>I asked the dealer how much he wanted, he gave me the price, I bought them. Seems fair to me.
Then you called Panda America asked what they pay for them, they told you, sounds fair to me.
Steve >>
Here is the major difference steve, since you need a little help obviously. If I buy this coin from my local guy, its 103% of melt, if I sell, its 97% of melt. That yields a margin of 6% for my guy who runs a B&M WITH overhead. If I buy this coin from PandaAmerica, its 196% of melt, if I sell to him its 105% of melt. That yields a margin of 91%. Clear enough for your slower than average wit steve? >>
No need to be insulting at the same time as being a hypocrite.
An offer to buy at a price was made by them You refused to sell at the price. 'Nuff said.
Vicious cycle, but one that is kinda talked about with a certain infrequency. Bottom line, we all know that B&M shops are not the way to go to sell. PandaAmerica is in business to sell to 'us' (end user, basically) and have their buyers rip OTHER people off, people that WONT slam their fist on the table and say efyou, like you did. I wonder where all those gold coins go that are siphoned out of peoples pockets for next to nothing, that are bought by those 'buyers' that set up the snake oil stand at hotels on certain Sundays (these 'buyers' have been discussed before). Regardless, it does blow that their offer was a slap in the face, but it SHOULDNT come as a surprise.
<< <i>Hey...I just made a 1987 Eagle $10 in MS70. One of the prominent ebay modern dealers who lists others around this date (didn't have the 1987) for $1500-1700+, wouldn't even make an offer on the coin. Guess they rather buy it as bullion and make the markup themselves. >>
Now you know how dealers make their money.
Me at the Springfield coin show: 60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
OOOOOOOPS!!!! Geeeez its a good thing PandaAmerica tried to rip me off. If they had offered me a reasonable price on those 5 gold pandas, I wouldnt have ended up with a $1,000 profit from the sale of this. Remember, I had 5 total coins. 1 will go into my collection, 4 to be sold. 1 down, 3 to go. Thanks PandaAmerica for LOWBALLING me. This coin could have been yours for about $1,300 but you went for the RIP instead. Thanks again!
Please explain that to me Will. I put these on the OPEN market with a 1 cent start and NO RESERVE. All I got paid for this coin is what the MARKET WOULD BEAR! Explain how that makes me a hypocrit please.
Please explain that to me Will. I put these on the OPEN market with a 1 cent start and NO RESERVE. All I got paid for this coin is what the MARKET WOULD BEAR! Explain how that makes me a hypocrit please. >>
dont worry. this is from the person who buys rolls of morgans for a low price and gets them slabbed and profits bigtime on ebay.
Dont forget FC, he IS the YN of the year! I guess his opinion matters much more than anyone else's. However, I'd still love for him to explain why im a hypocrit. Im not certain that Will understands the meaning of the word in fact.
why? an educated B&M dealer sold them for melt. Now along comes a market maker selling them on their website for 1700... and only offers melt.
the OP knows he can do better on ebay and does not need lousy dealer offers.
it aint his problem a B&M left money on the table and it is ALL his problem to make double his money. and he did on the first.
excellent. a collector wins and dealer(s) lose. good days work. i wish it would happen more often. >>
First of all, the tone of Gecko's posts always seem to piss me off.
Second, and more importantly, all Gecko ever talks about is how people should be happy making 5 or 10% on coins. As soon as he himself does well on some coins he posts it up for all to see like it's the greatest event ever, and accuses PandaAmerica for trying to rip him off when actually, PandaAmerica offered him MORE than he paid for them!
You rant and you rant, Gecko, but you really have no sense of consistency or a speck of understanding of the coin market.
<< <i>Dont forget FC, he IS the YN of the year! I guess his opinion matters much more than anyone else's. However, I'd still love for him to explain why im a hypocrit. Im not certain that Will understands the meaning of the word in fact. >>
I won that award through hard work and valuable involvement with the hobby. If anything it proves that people respect my contributions to coin collecting.
<< <i>Dont forget FC, he IS the YN of the year! I guess his opinion matters much more than anyone else's. >>
It's not like he goes around bragging about it in every (hell, any for that matter) thread. Unlike you, Will doesn't try to talk down to people and shows class.
I'm sorry that a legitimate dealer tried to buy low from you so that they could then sell high. It's as if they wanted to make money... the nerve.
why? an educated B&M dealer sold them for melt. Now along comes a market maker selling them on their website for 1700... and only offers melt.
the OP knows he can do better on ebay and does not need lousy dealer offers.
it aint his problem a B&M left money on the table and it is ALL his problem to make double his money. and he did on the first.
excellent. a collector wins and dealer(s) lose. good days work. i wish it would happen more often. >>
First of all, the tone of Gecko's posts always seem to piss me off.
Second, and more importantly, all Gecko ever talks about is how people should be happy making 5 or 10% on coins. As soon as he himself does well on some coins he posts it up for all to see like it's the greatest event ever, and accuses PandaAmerica for trying to rip him off when actually, PandaAmerica offered him MORE than he paid for them!
You rant and you rant, Gecko, but you really have no sense of consistency or a speck of understanding of the coin market. >>
Will, I paid $906 per coin, PandaAmerica offered me $920. Thats a FANTASTIC offer for a coin they list for sale on their own website at $1726, isnt it? Also Will, please quote me a single time where I once ever in this forum said a dealer should make just 5-10% on coin sales. Dont exxagerate Will, stick to the facts. The common date IHC thread involving HJB was calculated as a 25% over sheet ask offer on the coin. Not 5-10%. Next time YOU buy a $1969 coin for $906 Will, be sure to PM me so I can offer to buy it from you at $920....afterall its more than YOU paid, right?
<< <i>Dont forget FC, he IS the YN of the year! I guess his opinion matters much more than anyone else's. >>
It's not like he goes around bragging about it in every (hell, any for that matter) thread. Unlike you, Will doesn't try to talk down to people and shows class.
I'm sorry that a legitimate dealer tried to buy low from you so that they could then sell high. It's as if they wanted to make money... the nerve. >>
But its acceptable for him to call me a hypocrit, correct? Thats PURE class.
<< <i>Dont forget FC, he IS the YN of the year! I guess his opinion matters much more than anyone else's. >>
It's not like he goes around bragging about it in every (hell, any for that matter) thread. Unlike you, Will doesn't try to talk down to people and shows class.
I'm sorry that a legitimate dealer tried to buy low from you so that they could then sell high. It's as if they wanted to make money... the nerve. >>
But its acceptable for him to call me a hypocrit, correct? Thats PURE class. >>
No, it's not class. It's truth.
And adding to that, I was quite cordial to you for the first number of PM's were had back and forth. I think the first time I got pissed is when you told me to "Shut the f*** up."
You rant and you rant, Gecko, but you really have no sense of consistency or a speck of understanding of the coin market.
actually i think he knows exactly what he is doing and will not let dealers walk all over him. the exact type of customer dealers hate.
i like gecko and his posts and fully expect them to tee off most people here because they do not want others becoming like him.
it is great that people goto a show and overpay for average material and take low ball offers on their items for sale. great for the dealers and crappy for the collectors.
this type of material is a great example of the games dealers play with collectors when selling this stuff. buy at melt and sell slabbed for double the money. when a collector wants to sell and knows the dealers selling price they should be insulted with a low offer!
<< <i>You rant and you rant, Gecko, but you really have no sense of consistency or a speck of understanding of the coin market.
actually i think he knows exactly what he is doing and will not let dealers walk all over him. the exact type of customer dealers hate.
i like gecko and his posts and fully expect them to tee off most people here because they do not want others becoming like him.
it is great that people goto a show and overpay for average material and take low ball offers on their items for sale. great for the dealers and crappy for the collectors.
this type of material is a great example of the games dealers play with collectors when selling this stuff. buy at melt and sell slabbed for double the money. when a collector wants to sell and knows the dealers selling price they should be insulted with a low offer!
go gecko! >>
We've had differences, fc, but I respect you. However, I simply disagree with you here. I think there's a difference between "not letting dealers walk all over you," and creating a flaming mess anytime a dealer offers you something you don't like.
<< <i>Dont forget FC, he IS the YN of the year! I guess his opinion matters much more than anyone else's. >>
It's not like he goes around bragging about it in every (hell, any for that matter) thread. Unlike you, Will doesn't try to talk down to people and shows class.
I'm sorry that a legitimate dealer tried to buy low from you so that they could then sell high. It's as if they wanted to make money... the nerve. >>
But its acceptable for him to call me a hypocrit, correct? Thats PURE class. >>
No, it's not class. It's truth. >>
Will, explain how im a hypocrit. I didnt list that coin at $1969, I listed it at 1 cent, no reserve. It simply brought what the market was willing to pay on it. If you have the same coin, I'd be happy to buy it at $1,700. Unfortunately, PandaAmerica wants to take it in at just above melt and grab the HUGE profit. So they buy at melt, and sell at 190% of melt. Hmmmmm, can you say RIP?!?!?! The bottom line is that if PandaAmerica wants to market a coin as a key date piece, shouldnt they be taking it in with a "key date" offer rather than a generic melt offer?
<< <i>Next time YOU buy a $1969 coin for $906 Will, be sure to PM me so I can offer to buy it from you at $920....afterall its more than YOU paid, right? >>
You're damn right I'd try to get the most money for what I buy. But I'm not the one constantly complaining about dealer "rips" or large profits.
<< <i>Dont forget FC, he IS the YN of the year! I guess his opinion matters much more than anyone else's. However, I'd still love for him to explain why im a hypocrit. Im not certain that Will understands the meaning of the word in fact. >>
I won that award through hard work and valuable involvement with the hobby. If anything it proves that people respect my contributions to coin collecting.
I doubt anyone can say the same for you. >>
What did you do to get designated YN of the year? Congrats!
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>Next time YOU buy a $1969 coin for $906 Will, be sure to PM me so I can offer to buy it from you at $920....afterall its more than YOU paid, right? >>
You're damn right I'd try to get the most money for what I buy. But I'm not the one constantly complaining about dealer "rips" or large profits. >>
Then whats this all about Will? You act as if PandaAmerica was doing me a favor here:
"As soon as he himself does well on some coins he posts it up for all to see like it's the greatest event ever, and accuses PandaAmerica for trying to rip him off when actually, PandaAmerica offered him MORE than he paid for them!"
<< <i>Dont forget FC, he IS the YN of the year! I guess his opinion matters much more than anyone else's. >>
It's not like he goes around bragging about it in every (hell, any for that matter) thread. Unlike you, Will doesn't try to talk down to people and shows class.
I'm sorry that a legitimate dealer tried to buy low from you so that they could then sell high. It's as if they wanted to make money... the nerve. >>
But its acceptable for him to call me a hypocrit, correct? Thats PURE class. >>
No, it's not class. It's truth. >>
Will, explain how im a hypocrit. I didnt list that coin at $1969, I listed it at 1 cent, no reserve. It simply brought what the market was willing to pay on it. If you have the same coin, I'd be happy to buy it at $1,700. Unfortunately, PandaAmerica wants to take it in at just above melt and grab the HUGE profit. So they buy at melt, and sell at 190% of melt. Hmmmmm, can you say RIP?!?!?! The bottom line is that if PandaAmerica wants to market a coin as a key date piece, shouldnt they be taking it in with a "key date" offer rather than a generic melt offer? >>
I'm going to put it simply then drop this thread.
You believe strongly that dealers should not make gross profits on coins, no? That's a respectable and honorable opinion. When you bought those Pandas from your dealer for $906, he had presented a price to you and you had accepted. You then went to PandaAmerica. They offered you their published buying price: $920. You declined, and angrily came here to rant about how aweful their offer was, when in reality it had been above what you had paid anyway. You felt they were trying to make too large a profit, judging by existing price records and what they already had pieces listed at. You then went and sold the pieces, making over 100% of your buying price, and came here to talk about what a great profit you made--a profit actually bigger than what PandaAmerica would have made if they sold your pieces at the price they had listed on their site.
<< <i>Dont forget FC, he IS the YN of the year! I guess his opinion matters much more than anyone else's. >>
It's not like he goes around bragging about it in every (hell, any for that matter) thread. Unlike you, Will doesn't try to talk down to people and shows class.
I'm sorry that a legitimate dealer tried to buy low from you so that they could then sell high. It's as if they wanted to make money... the nerve. >>
But its acceptable for him to call me a hypocrit, correct? Thats PURE class. >>
No, it's not class. It's truth. >>
Will, explain how im a hypocrit. I didnt list that coin at $1969, I listed it at 1 cent, no reserve. It simply brought what the market was willing to pay on it. If you have the same coin, I'd be happy to buy it at $1,700. Unfortunately, PandaAmerica wants to take it in at just above melt and grab the HUGE profit. So they buy at melt, and sell at 190% of melt. Hmmmmm, can you say RIP?!?!?! The bottom line is that if PandaAmerica wants to market a coin as a key date piece, shouldnt they be taking it in with a "key date" offer rather than a generic melt offer? >>
I'm going to put it simply then drop this thread.
You believe strongly that dealers should not make gross profits on coins, no? That's a respectable and honorable opinion. When you bought those Pandas from your dealer for $906, he had presented a price to you and you had accepted. You then went to PandaAmerica. They offered you their published buying price: $920. You declined, and angrily came here to rant about how aweful their offer was, when in reality it had been above what you had paid anyway. You felt they were trying to make too large a profit, judging by existing price records and what they already had pieces listed at. You then went and sold the pieces, making over 100% of your buying price, and came here to talk about what a great profit you made--a profit actually bigger than what PandaAmerica would have made if they sold your pieces at the price they had listed on their site.
Plain and simple, that's very hypocritical. >>
Its simply a clear demonstration of how the big dealers try to rip small time collectors AND how small time collectors dont have to put up with that crap anymore. I think I made my point rather definitively!!!
<< <i>Its simply a clear demonstration of how the big dealers try to rip small time collectors >>
Suppose PandaAmerica had contacted the dealer you bought the coins from, and arranged to purchase them for the amount PA offered you.
Would PA have been guilty of "ripping" that dealer?
Rhetorical bonus question... When you buy stuff specifically to resell for a profit, what does that make you? >>
Question #1: Of course not. That dealer operates on a buy price of 97% of melt, and a sell price of 103% of melt REGARDLESS of date. Therefore he is working on a 6% mark-up, and is HAPPY and SUCCESSFUL in doing so.
Question #2: I am simply an opportunist who is using an opportunity to add a few more coins to my collection. It would be no different than seeing a $20 bill on the ground in the middle of an empty parking lot. Picking it up doesnt make you a bad person, its just an opportunity that you took. Knowing a coin is worth $1700+ and then "chuckling" when offered the chance to buy that coin at $1300 is simply greed and arrogance. Had my local dealer asked for $1300 each rather than the 3% over melt he ALWAYS charges me, I would have paid it happily. However, dont try to make ME out to be the greedy one because I paid EXACTLY what he asked me for.
<< <i>Next time YOU buy a $1969 coin for $906 Will, be sure to PM me so I can offer to buy it from you at $920....afterall its more than YOU paid, right? >>
You're damn right I'd try to get the most money for what I buy. But I'm not the one constantly complaining about dealer "rips" or large profits. >>
You mite gripe about them if they came at YOUR expense.
If PandaAmerica wouldn't be guilty of ripping your dealer by paying what they offered you for the coins, why are they guilty of trying to rip you by paying the same amount? Unless PandaAmerica is somehow using ESP, how can the seller's (either you or your dealer's) expectations be a factor in this?
Here is why....PandaAmerica is operated out of greed and little else. Follow along with the math below:
I buy the coin at $906....I offer it to PA for $1325....they sell it at $1726. That equates to a profit of $419 for me, and $401 for PA.
But instead, PA wants ALL of the profit for themselves and does not want ANYONE else to enjoy a financial gain. And now because of their GREED, I get ALL the profit for myself. See how much fun that was?
Comments
Of course it is very confusing to you as you have no idea what they need to operate.
By the way are you selling them for a 6% markup, like the 'guy' you buy them from?
Steve
<< <i>The guy I always buy these from operates on a 6% margin. I wonder how he does it, yet PandaAmerica needs to work on a 91% margin. Very confusing indeed
Of course it is very confusing to you as you have no idea what they need to operate.
By the way are you selling them for a 6% markup, like the 'guy' you buy them from?
Steve >>
Its just funny how my guy can work off a 6% mark-up but PandaAmerica feels the need to work off a 91% mark-up.
By the way, would you sell these at a 6% mark-up when they routinely sell for about a 75% mark-up?
It's hard to imagine what you would do about something that really matters.
Yes you stated that at least 2 times now. we get it, your guy sells just above melt he can work off a 6% margin. Panda can't.
admit it, you want your cake and eat it too.
and if you paid 6% above melt how do they 'routinely' sell for a 75% markup? Oh I know, your 'guy' had no idea what they routinely sell for
and you took advantage of him. Gotcha.
Steve
Now that's funny ! ! !
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
But please correct me if I'm wrong.
<< <i>I'm normally neutral on events like this, but what I find strange is that this smells like the "hypothetical" event in your other thread. Usually when people have a "hypothetical" event to discuss, it really happened and they are trying to play slick. Somehow that just rubs me the wrong way.
But please correct me if I'm wrong. >>
Two completely seperate and different deals.
<< <i>If it makes you feel any better, had I offered the coins to PandaAmerica I would probably have been offered the same price.
Back in February I tried to thin out our Panda inventory by offering anything that seemed to be a better date to a different foreign gold specialist that I have an excellent relation with. He apologetically said that with gold at these levels he was having a hard time selling better dates, and could only use three or four of the pieces I was offering him at any sort of premium. I decided that the premium on those pieces wasn't worth the bother, and still have the lot. If you want to come by, I'll see what I can do for you on some or all.
TD >>
Now, I wonder why gecko is "answering" later posts but ignoring this, logical, one????
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm normally neutral on events like this, but what I find strange is that this smells like the "hypothetical" event in your other thread. Usually when people have a "hypothetical" event to discuss, it really happened and they are trying to play slick. Somehow that just rubs me the wrong way.
But please correct me if I'm wrong. >>
Two completely seperate and different deals. >>
Alright, my bad, carry on folks...
<< <i>
<< <i>If it makes you feel any better, had I offered the coins to PandaAmerica I would probably have been offered the same price.
Back in February I tried to thin out our Panda inventory by offering anything that seemed to be a better date to a different foreign gold specialist that I have an excellent relation with. He apologetically said that with gold at these levels he was having a hard time selling better dates, and could only use three or four of the pieces I was offering him at any sort of premium. I decided that the premium on those pieces wasn't worth the bother, and still have the lot. If you want to come by, I'll see what I can do for you on some or all.
TD >>
Now, I wonder why gecko is "answering" later posts but ignoring this, logical, one????
Didnt ignore that post in the least. In fact im in discussions with Tom in PM.
Gecko
Take off the blinders.
You're doing exactly what you complain about others doing.
One other comment.....how can a 69 be worth such a premium if you buy 5 coins and believe that all 5 will grade 69.
I have a friend i call whosale retail. If you do something for him it has to be a super deal below cost, but when it comes time to repay the favor it has to be at retail for him.
Geko- What is your profession out of curiousity.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>Geko- You complain when common date indian head cents are 215 dollars for 64 red. But if you were offered 2 at 100 dollars, you would sell the other at 215 if you could get it. I do not really blame you. But it makes you sound as greedy as the dealers you complain about. So you pay a little over melt for the pandas and want to sell them for the same price as a store with overhead, payroll, insurance but offer none of the service and believe you are entitled. Ebay the babies, uh pandas. I like to pay the same price dealers pay, and sell for the same prices they do myself.
I have a friend i call whosale retail. If you do something for him it has to be a super deal below cost, but when it comes time to repay the favor it has to be at retail for him.
Geko- What is your profession out of curiousity. >>
Actually I offered to sell not at the dealer price, but considerably lower (read OP again). Im a firefighter by the way.
Firemen in many communities do just that.
Also, fwiw your BS earlier about accepting 23% was just that BS, that was a counteroffer.
You kept saying that your BM makes 6% so in case you are slow and need a hand here that is why
I said you wanted them to buy at 5 - 10 % back of where they sell. But thanks for the math lesson nontheless.
Also your OP was edited too.
Steve
edited typos
<< <i>Gecko
Take off the blinders.
You're doing exactly what you complain about others doing.
One other comment.....how can a 69 be worth such a premium if you buy 5 coins and believe that all 5 will grade 69. >>
Actually a PCGS 68 should probably sell at about $1500 give or take. So its really not "such a premium" as you put it. A raw one will sell at about $1350. The grading fees are just at the point where its worth a few bucks more in reselling the coin. And im simply complaining about dealer spreads. You think its fair to take in a raw coin at $920 only to resell at $1726? Thats quite a margin! If I can sell these at $1550 on ebay, i'd be HAPPY to take them in at $1200!!! After my fees for grading and the FVF, it should work out to be about a $190 profit. But if I could sell them from my own website at $1726 you better believe im a buyer at $1325! Thats a $401 profit on each coin. Multiply that by the 5 coins I bought, and I just pocketed a cool 2 grand. Im not the greedy one, PandaAmerica is.
<< <i>
<< <i>I asked the dealer how much he wanted, he gave me the price, I bought them. Seems fair to me.
Then you called Panda America asked what they pay for them, they told you, sounds fair to me.
Steve >>
Here is the major difference steve, since you need a little help obviously. If I buy this coin from my local guy, its 103% of melt, if I sell, its 97% of melt. That yields a margin of 6% for my guy who runs a B&M WITH overhead. If I buy this coin from PandaAmerica, its 196% of melt, if I sell to him its 105% of melt. That yields a margin of 91%. Clear enough for your slower than average wit steve? >>
No need to be insulting at the same time as being a hypocrite.
An offer to buy at a price was made by them You refused to sell at the price. 'Nuff said.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
I wonder how many pandas he actually sells at 1700 plus. But i doubt he is taking 400 off the asking price either.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
And, yeah, you do sound like a dealer! lol
<< <i>Hey...I just made a 1987 Eagle $10 in MS70. One of the prominent ebay modern dealers who lists others around this date (didn't have the 1987) for $1500-1700+, wouldn't even make an offer on the coin. Guess they rather buy it as bullion and make the markup themselves. >>
Now you know how dealers make their money.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
Griv
http://cgi.ebay.com/Scarce-1995-Gold-1-Oz-Chinese-Panda-PCGS-MS69_W0QQitemZ120278259248QQihZ002QQcategoryZ4368QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
collectors on most material?
only those who think they have good relationships and "want" to leave
money on the table :-)
<< <i>Your hypocracy is blinding. >>
Please explain that to me Will. I put these on the OPEN market with a 1 cent start and NO RESERVE. All I got paid for this coin is what the MARKET WOULD BEAR! Explain how that makes me a hypocrit please.
<< <i>Your hypocracy is blinding. >>
why? an educated B&M dealer sold them for melt.
Now along comes a market maker selling them on their website for
1700... and only offers melt.
the OP knows he can do better on ebay and does not need lousy
dealer offers.
it aint his problem a B&M left money on the table and it is ALL his problem
to make double his money. and he did on the first.
excellent. a collector wins and dealer(s) lose. good days work. i wish
it would happen more often.
<< <i>
<< <i>Your hypocracy is blinding. >>
Please explain that to me Will. I put these on the OPEN market with a 1 cent start and NO RESERVE. All I got paid for this coin is what the MARKET WOULD BEAR! Explain how that makes me a hypocrit please. >>
dont worry. this is from the person who buys rolls of morgans for
a low price and gets them slabbed and profits bigtime on ebay.
everyone does it eh?
<< <i>
<< <i>Your hypocracy is blinding. >>
why? an educated B&M dealer sold them for melt.
Now along comes a market maker selling them on their website for
1700... and only offers melt.
the OP knows he can do better on ebay and does not need lousy
dealer offers.
it aint his problem a B&M left money on the table and it is ALL his problem
to make double his money. and he did on the first.
excellent. a collector wins and dealer(s) lose. good days work. i wish
it would happen more often. >>
First of all, the tone of Gecko's posts always seem to piss me off.
Second, and more importantly, all Gecko ever talks about is how people should be happy making 5 or 10% on coins. As soon as he himself does well on some coins he posts it up for all to see like it's the greatest event ever, and accuses PandaAmerica for trying to rip him off when actually, PandaAmerica offered him MORE than he paid for them!
You rant and you rant, Gecko, but you really have no sense of consistency or a speck of understanding of the coin market.
<< <i>Dont forget FC, he IS the YN of the year! I guess his opinion matters much more than anyone else's. However, I'd still love for him to explain why im a hypocrit. Im not certain that Will understands the meaning of the word in fact. >>
I won that award through hard work and valuable involvement with the hobby. If anything it proves that people respect my contributions to coin collecting.
I doubt anyone can say the same for you.
<< <i>Dont forget FC, he IS the YN of the year! I guess his opinion matters much more than anyone else's. >>
It's not like he goes around bragging about it in every (hell, any for that matter) thread. Unlike you, Will doesn't try to talk down to people and shows class.
I'm sorry that a legitimate dealer tried to buy low from you so that they could then sell high. It's as if they wanted to make money... the nerve.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Your hypocracy is blinding. >>
why? an educated B&M dealer sold them for melt.
Now along comes a market maker selling them on their website for
1700... and only offers melt.
the OP knows he can do better on ebay and does not need lousy
dealer offers.
it aint his problem a B&M left money on the table and it is ALL his problem
to make double his money. and he did on the first.
excellent. a collector wins and dealer(s) lose. good days work. i wish
it would happen more often. >>
First of all, the tone of Gecko's posts always seem to piss me off.
Second, and more importantly, all Gecko ever talks about is how people should be happy making 5 or 10% on coins. As soon as he himself does well on some coins he posts it up for all to see like it's the greatest event ever, and accuses PandaAmerica for trying to rip him off when actually, PandaAmerica offered him MORE than he paid for them!
You rant and you rant, Gecko, but you really have no sense of consistency or a speck of understanding of the coin market. >>
Will, I paid $906 per coin, PandaAmerica offered me $920. Thats a FANTASTIC offer for a coin they list for sale on their own website at $1726, isnt it?
<< <i>
<< <i>Dont forget FC, he IS the YN of the year! I guess his opinion matters much more than anyone else's. >>
It's not like he goes around bragging about it in every (hell, any for that matter) thread. Unlike you, Will doesn't try to talk down to people and shows class.
I'm sorry that a legitimate dealer tried to buy low from you so that they could then sell high. It's as if they wanted to make money... the nerve. >>
But its acceptable for him to call me a hypocrit, correct? Thats PURE class.
Why did you ask for substantially more and then come on here and whine about it?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Dont forget FC, he IS the YN of the year! I guess his opinion matters much more than anyone else's. >>
It's not like he goes around bragging about it in every (hell, any for that matter) thread. Unlike you, Will doesn't try to talk down to people and shows class.
I'm sorry that a legitimate dealer tried to buy low from you so that they could then sell high. It's as if they wanted to make money... the nerve. >>
But its acceptable for him to call me a hypocrit, correct? Thats PURE class. >>
No, it's not class. It's truth.
And adding to that, I was quite cordial to you for the first number of PM's were had back and forth. I think the first time I got pissed is when you told me to "Shut the f*** up."
actually i think he knows exactly what he is doing and will not let
dealers walk all over him. the exact type of customer dealers hate.
i like gecko and his posts and fully expect them to tee off most people
here because they do not want others becoming like him.
it is great that people goto a show and overpay for average material
and take low ball offers on their items for sale. great for the dealers
and crappy for the collectors.
this type of material is a great example of the games dealers play
with collectors when selling this stuff. buy at melt and sell slabbed
for double the money. when a collector wants to sell and knows the
dealers selling price they should be insulted with a low offer!
go gecko!
<< <i>You rant and you rant, Gecko, but you really have no sense of consistency or a speck of understanding of the coin market.
actually i think he knows exactly what he is doing and will not let
dealers walk all over him. the exact type of customer dealers hate.
i like gecko and his posts and fully expect them to tee off most people
here because they do not want others becoming like him.
it is great that people goto a show and overpay for average material
and take low ball offers on their items for sale. great for the dealers
and crappy for the collectors.
this type of material is a great example of the games dealers play
with collectors when selling this stuff. buy at melt and sell slabbed
for double the money. when a collector wants to sell and knows the
dealers selling price they should be insulted with a low offer!
go gecko! >>
We've had differences, fc, but I respect you. However, I simply disagree with you here. I think there's a difference between "not letting dealers walk all over you," and creating a flaming mess anytime a dealer offers you something you don't like.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Dont forget FC, he IS the YN of the year! I guess his opinion matters much more than anyone else's. >>
It's not like he goes around bragging about it in every (hell, any for that matter) thread. Unlike you, Will doesn't try to talk down to people and shows class.
I'm sorry that a legitimate dealer tried to buy low from you so that they could then sell high. It's as if they wanted to make money... the nerve. >>
But its acceptable for him to call me a hypocrit, correct? Thats PURE class. >>
No, it's not class. It's truth. >>
Will, explain how im a hypocrit. I didnt list that coin at $1969, I listed it at 1 cent, no reserve. It simply brought what the market was willing to pay on it. If you have the same coin, I'd be happy to buy it at $1,700. Unfortunately, PandaAmerica wants to take it in at just above melt and grab the HUGE profit. So they buy at melt, and sell at 190% of melt. Hmmmmm, can you say RIP?!?!?! The bottom line is that if PandaAmerica wants to market a coin as a key date piece, shouldnt they be taking it in with a "key date" offer rather than a generic melt offer?
<< <i>Next time YOU buy a $1969 coin for $906 Will, be sure to PM me so I can offer to buy it from you at $920....afterall its more than YOU paid, right? >>
You're damn right I'd try to get the most money for what I buy. But I'm not the one constantly complaining about dealer "rips" or large profits.
<< <i>
<< <i>Dont forget FC, he IS the YN of the year! I guess his opinion matters much more than anyone else's. However, I'd still love for him to explain why im a hypocrit. Im not certain that Will understands the meaning of the word in fact. >>
I won that award through hard work and valuable involvement with the hobby. If anything it proves that people respect my contributions to coin collecting.
I doubt anyone can say the same for you. >>
What did you do to get designated YN of the year? Congrats!
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>
<< <i>Next time YOU buy a $1969 coin for $906 Will, be sure to PM me so I can offer to buy it from you at $920....afterall its more than YOU paid, right? >>
You're damn right I'd try to get the most money for what I buy. But I'm not the one constantly complaining about dealer "rips" or large profits. >>
Then whats this all about Will? You act as if PandaAmerica was doing me a favor here:
"As soon as he himself does well on some coins he posts it up for all to see like it's the greatest event ever, and accuses PandaAmerica for trying to rip him off when actually, PandaAmerica offered him MORE than he paid for them!"
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Dont forget FC, he IS the YN of the year! I guess his opinion matters much more than anyone else's. >>
It's not like he goes around bragging about it in every (hell, any for that matter) thread. Unlike you, Will doesn't try to talk down to people and shows class.
I'm sorry that a legitimate dealer tried to buy low from you so that they could then sell high. It's as if they wanted to make money... the nerve. >>
But its acceptable for him to call me a hypocrit, correct? Thats PURE class. >>
No, it's not class. It's truth. >>
Will, explain how im a hypocrit. I didnt list that coin at $1969, I listed it at 1 cent, no reserve. It simply brought what the market was willing to pay on it. If you have the same coin, I'd be happy to buy it at $1,700. Unfortunately, PandaAmerica wants to take it in at just above melt and grab the HUGE profit. So they buy at melt, and sell at 190% of melt. Hmmmmm, can you say RIP?!?!?! The bottom line is that if PandaAmerica wants to market a coin as a key date piece, shouldnt they be taking it in with a "key date" offer rather than a generic melt offer? >>
I'm going to put it simply then drop this thread.
You believe strongly that dealers should not make gross profits on coins, no? That's a respectable and honorable opinion. When you bought those Pandas from your dealer for $906, he had presented a price to you and you had accepted. You then went to PandaAmerica. They offered you their published buying price: $920. You declined, and angrily came here to rant about how aweful their offer was, when in reality it had been above what you had paid anyway. You felt they were trying to make too large a profit, judging by existing price records and what they already had pieces listed at. You then went and sold the pieces, making over 100% of your buying price, and came here to talk about what a great profit you made--a profit actually bigger than what PandaAmerica would have made if they sold your pieces at the price they had listed on their site.
Plain and simple, that's very hypocritical.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Dont forget FC, he IS the YN of the year! I guess his opinion matters much more than anyone else's. >>
It's not like he goes around bragging about it in every (hell, any for that matter) thread. Unlike you, Will doesn't try to talk down to people and shows class.
I'm sorry that a legitimate dealer tried to buy low from you so that they could then sell high. It's as if they wanted to make money... the nerve. >>
But its acceptable for him to call me a hypocrit, correct? Thats PURE class. >>
No, it's not class. It's truth. >>
Will, explain how im a hypocrit. I didnt list that coin at $1969, I listed it at 1 cent, no reserve. It simply brought what the market was willing to pay on it. If you have the same coin, I'd be happy to buy it at $1,700. Unfortunately, PandaAmerica wants to take it in at just above melt and grab the HUGE profit. So they buy at melt, and sell at 190% of melt. Hmmmmm, can you say RIP?!?!?! The bottom line is that if PandaAmerica wants to market a coin as a key date piece, shouldnt they be taking it in with a "key date" offer rather than a generic melt offer? >>
I'm going to put it simply then drop this thread.
You believe strongly that dealers should not make gross profits on coins, no? That's a respectable and honorable opinion. When you bought those Pandas from your dealer for $906, he had presented a price to you and you had accepted. You then went to PandaAmerica. They offered you their published buying price: $920. You declined, and angrily came here to rant about how aweful their offer was, when in reality it had been above what you had paid anyway. You felt they were trying to make too large a profit, judging by existing price records and what they already had pieces listed at. You then went and sold the pieces, making over 100% of your buying price, and came here to talk about what a great profit you made--a profit actually bigger than what PandaAmerica would have made if they sold your pieces at the price they had listed on their site.
Plain and simple, that's very hypocritical. >>
Its simply a clear demonstration of how the big dealers try to rip small time collectors AND how small time collectors dont have to put up with that crap anymore. I think I made my point rather definitively!!!
<< <i>Don't forget to pay taxes on your gains. >>
Of course I wont!
<< <i>Its simply a clear demonstration of how the big dealers try to rip small time collectors >>
Suppose PandaAmerica had contacted the dealer you bought the coins from, and arranged to purchase them for the amount PA offered you.
Would PA have been guilty of "ripping" that dealer?
Rhetorical bonus question... When you buy stuff specifically to resell for a profit, what does that make you?
<< <i>
<< <i>Its simply a clear demonstration of how the big dealers try to rip small time collectors >>
Suppose PandaAmerica had contacted the dealer you bought the coins from, and arranged to purchase them for the amount PA offered you.
Would PA have been guilty of "ripping" that dealer?
Rhetorical bonus question... When you buy stuff specifically to resell for a profit, what does that make you? >>
Question #1: Of course not. That dealer operates on a buy price of 97% of melt, and a sell price of 103% of melt REGARDLESS of date. Therefore he is working on a 6% mark-up, and is HAPPY and SUCCESSFUL in doing so.
Question #2: I am simply an opportunist who is using an opportunity to add a few more coins to my collection. It would be no different than seeing a $20 bill on the ground in the middle of an empty parking lot. Picking it up doesnt make you a bad person, its just an opportunity that you took. Knowing a coin is worth $1700+ and then "chuckling" when offered the chance to buy that coin at $1300 is simply greed and arrogance. Had my local dealer asked for $1300 each rather than the 3% over melt he ALWAYS charges me, I would have paid it happily. However, dont try to make ME out to be the greedy one because I paid EXACTLY what he asked me for.
<< <i>
<< <i>Next time YOU buy a $1969 coin for $906 Will, be sure to PM me so I can offer to buy it from you at $920....afterall its more than YOU paid, right? >>
You're damn right I'd try to get the most money for what I buy. But I'm not the one constantly complaining about dealer "rips" or large profits. >>
You mite gripe about them if they came at YOUR expense.
I buy the coin at $906....I offer it to PA for $1325....they sell it at $1726. That equates to a profit of $419 for me, and $401 for PA.
But instead, PA wants ALL of the profit for themselves and does not want ANYONE else to enjoy a financial gain. And now because of their GREED, I get ALL the profit for myself. See how much fun that was?
And yes I've read the entire thread.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress