Show me a coin RARER than this...???

dizzyfoxx · July 4, 2008 8:53AM

I was just spending the 4th browsing through the Heritage archives (man I love that feature on their website). Anyhow, I came across this ultimate rarity and had to just sit back, and spend a few moments being in awe of it.

RBinTex · July 4, 2008 8:59AM

Wow!

Broadstruck · July 4, 2008 8:59AM

It had a Estimate of $1000 in the 1950 Adolphe Menjou sale... I really need a time machine!

TwoSides2aCoin · July 4, 2008 9:08AM

The simplest of lines tell so much .
In our 23 years in the auction business we cannot think of another, more prestigious coin that has passed through our hands. Added to the obvious importance of the coin's unique stature is the allure of the Carson City mintmark, with coins from this mint being among the most romantic, storied, and highly collected in all of U.S. numismatics.

Tough challenge. Few will likely be able to top this one.

Zoins · July 4, 2008 9:13AM

Impressive background on that coin. Great write up too

BECOKA · July 4, 2008 9:13AM

Wow that was a lot of money back then.

dizzyfoxx · July 4, 2008 9:16AM

<< It had a Estimate of $1000 in the 1950 Adolphe Menjou sale... I really need a time machine!

>>

$1000 in 1950, many years before I was born so I'll have tell my Dad... Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda.

Then again, if 'ifs' and 'buts' were 'candys' and 'nuts' we'd all have a Merry Xmas!

RWB · July 4, 2008 9:27AM

A nice auction description. However much of the first paragraph is either incorrect, misleading or nothing more than unsubstantiated assumption. In particular, the material about the half unions is very old and has been demonstrated to be wrong. This is a major flaw in some modern auction description writing – the catalogers just copy a past auction instead of doing even the slightest research. Stack’s has done the same thing with the EHR $20 in their July sale – just copied an old, now inaccurate catalog description.

Note also, if the coin were picked from the annual assay commission material, there would be a record only if it were purchased by the Mint Collection curator from his collection fund. If a commission member bought it as a souvenir or oddity there would be no official record. Unused coins from the Annual Assay were placed in circulation. [The commission minutes are in NARA-CP, RG 104, Entry 281. Assay Commission official minute books, Vol. 1 1872 (Feb 1873) to 1892 (Feb 1893).]

fc · July 4, 2008 9:52AM

no set is complete without one! ;-)

firstmint · July 4, 2008 10:26AM

This particular coin did not originate in the US Mint collection from the trade of the 1877 Half Union pieces, nor was it held out for an Assay commission.

This coin was known in the 19th century, having been described as such and offered in the May 6, 1878 John Swan Randall sale, by Edward Cogan, Lot 902. It brought 17 cents.

If I recall correctly, it was also mentioned in Heaton's 1893 work on mintmarks.

My unsolicited advice - don't blindly accept all that you read without first doing your own research.

Zoins · July 4, 2008 10:29AM

Thanks for the replies on the auction description RWB and firstmint. Good to know.

ColonialCoinUnion · July 4, 2008 10:33AM

<< It brought 17 cents. >>

Was that including the buyer's fee?

What was the reserve?

Was that a cut bid?

What was the pre-sale estimate?

Did a dealer buy it and flip it right away for 19 cents?

Did the auction house offer extended payment terms?

Rim-shot!

Broadstruck · July 4, 2008 10:41AM

<< 

<< It brought 17 cents. >>

Was that including the buyer's fee?

What was the reserve?

Was that a cut bid?

What was the pre-sale estimate?

Did a dealer buy it and flip it right away for 19 cents?

Did the auction house offer extended payment terms?

Rim-shot! >>

oreville · July 4, 2008 11:19AM

Hmm, I remember many coin collectors were very critical of this dime issue when it was sold in 1999.

It probably kept the price down more than warranted.

MrEureka · July 4, 2008 11:29AM

Was that including the buyer's fee?

What was the reserve?

Was that a cut bid?

What was the pre-sale estimate?

Did a dealer buy it and flip it right away for 19 cents?

Did the auction house offer extended payment terms?

Even money says RWB answers all of the above without breaking a sweat.

coindeuce · July 4, 2008 11:34AM

According to Larry Sheperd's bio in a recent issue of RCR, he has been privately shown an unnamed high grade early federal coin that is more rare, simply by virtue of the widely held belief that it does not exist.

LanLord · July 4, 2008 11:47AM

<< This particular coin did not originate in the US Mint collection from the trade of the 1877 Half Union pieces, nor was it held out for an Assay commission. This coin was known in the 19th century, having been described as such and offered in the May 6, 1878 John Swan Randall sale, by Edward Cogan, Lot 902. It brought 17 cents. If I recall correctly, it was also mentioned in Heaton's 1893 work on mintmarks. My unsolicited advice - don't blindly accept all that you read without first doing your own research. >>

but...but... your research is believing something that someone else wrote! unless youre really old!

rays · July 4, 2008 11:59AM

That coin would bring over $1M, and possibly $2M, if it were to appear at auction today.

COALPORTER · July 4, 2008 12:46PM

I wish I could just get a nice 76 CC.

RWB · July 4, 2008 12:56PM

Sorry Andy. I don't do much with old auction catalogs. If I'm gonna dig into musty, bug infested files it will be original mint documents.

Coxe · July 4, 2008 1:55PM

Yes, that is a fabulous one. I recall being an underbidder on it in '96. Went a LOT richer than expected. The buyer made no money on the coin even if he negotiated no seller's fee. .....but he owned one heck of a neat coin for a few years!

CaptHenway · July 4, 2008 2:00PM

Getting back to the title of the thread, how about the Templeton Reid 1849 $25 gold?

SirAnthonyAC · July 4, 2008 2:01PM

WOW! Now that is rare!

The rarest coins I have are the 3 Arkansas Half Dollar Commemoratives minted in 1937, mintage 5,505 each. You'd think with that low of a mintage they'd be worth hundreds if not a thousand each but, nope.

Quarternut · July 4, 2008 2:09PM

Sorry Andy. I don't do much with old auction catalogs

You really need to do both...

Just so you can see what wrong things have been printed in the past...

RWB · July 4, 2008 2:13PM

Actually, I generally ignore auction catalogs, hobby publication articles and anything else that does not include sources I can independently check.

Quarternut · July 4, 2008 2:22PM

Gee Breen would have written much less in his later career if he had followed that advice!

fc · July 4, 2008 2:35PM

i just had a thought.. if they only made one how can it be rare...
it is artifically rare due to the mintage...

one cannot compare that to a coin that had a mintage of 9,000
and only a handful known... that is what i call rare.

thoughts?

COALPORTER · July 4, 2008 2:40PM

<< i just had a thought.. if they only made one how can it be rare...
it is artifically rare due to the mintage...

one cannot compare that to a coin that had a mintage of 9,000
and only a handful known... that is what i call rare.

thoughts? >>

This coin had 12,400 minted but only one known survived remelting.

fc · July 4, 2008 2:41PM

<< 

<< i just had a thought.. if they only made one how can it be rare...
it is artifically rare due to the mintage...

one cannot compare that to a coin that had a mintage of 9,000
and only a handful known... that is what i call rare.

thoughts? >>

This coin had 12,400 minted but only one known survived remelting. >>

ah. i need to read the blurb more closely next time! thanks for sharing.

mr1931S · July 5, 2008 2:34AM

Art Kagin once showed me an 1891-O dime with a tiny 's' directly inside of the 'O.' It appeared to me to be a specially struck- for-presentation piece.It's the most memorable Seated dime I've ever seen.It was for sale.He said he would take $25,000 for it.This was in the '80's.This coin could be unique but I don't really know.

roadrunner · July 5, 2008 4:13AM

Wow, for 17c it would have made sense to sell off one's 1853-0 NA half or 1873-cc NA quarter and buy that dime....while keeping the change to buy more rarities.

As far as Art Kagin's 1891-0 dime, just be glad you didn't fork over the $25K. Back then $25K bought some serious, serious coinage worth 30-50X that amount today. I doubt the 91-0 dime is worth $100K today or anything close to that.

roadrunner

MrHalfDime · July 5, 2008 8:19AM

"Show me a coin RARER than this...???"

Well, that would be easy. The 1870-S half dime is considerably rarer than the 1873-CC No Arrows dime, because there is only one of those, and as anyone knows, there are two 1873-CC No Arrows dimes. There is the PCGS MS-64 specimen in the Heritage Archives, and then there is a VF-20 specimen in a major TPG holder in the Gerry Fortin Liberty Seated Dime collection. To be sure, there are arrows at either side of the date, just as big as you please, but the insert clearly states "1873-CC NO Arrows", so who is to question it. For those who "buy the holder and not the coin", you can belong to a pretty exclusive club - just you and Eliasberg.

CoinKing1969 · July 5, 2008 12:14PM

Where's Waldo, maybe he can tell us some more history on the coin

harvey85422458 · July 5, 2008 12:37PM

I wish I had that kind of money to spend on this great hobby. Sweet coin

Show me a coin RARER than this...???

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