Jewelry store owner and coin collector customer killed
lathmach
Posts: 4,720 ✭
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lathmach
Posts: 4,720 ✭
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NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
What a horrible thing to happen...I hope whoever is responsible is caught and executed.
<< <i>Text
Ray >>
Electric Chair...
Mega Dittos!
166 BHDs & 154 Die Varieties & Die States...
Bust Half Nut Club #180
Festivus Yes! Bagels No!
From another armed robbery case where the owner was armed. Markedly different outcome...
"If it weren't for my gun, I wouldn't be here," he said. "The last the world would have heard about me would be a blurb on Page 8: 'Coin shop owner shot dead in backroom.' "
Soustek had just opened for business Nov. 3, 2006, when a 40-year-old man exited his Mercedes and walked inside Westlake Cards, Comics & Coins in Roselle. Geoffrey Webb browsed for 10 to 15 minutes, making small talk with Soustek about coin collecting.
Suddenly, Webb jumped over the counter and pulled a .357 Magnum from his bag. Soustek, then 49, grabbed his own revolver and the two began shooting.
In 2.8 seconds, a dozen rounds were fired. One of Soustek's bullets hit Webb's spine and knocked him to the ground...
<< <i>This has always been a concern in the back of my mind, especially when I'm the only customer in the B&M. I feel a little safer going to McBride's here in Austin, since the coin shop is attached to a large gun store...
What a horrible thing to happen...I hope whoever is responsible is caught and executed. >>
I feel the same way here in Philly. My local B&M has a an automatic locking door and the owner has to "buzz" you in. This gives him the opportunity to screen out potentil threats but is in noway fail-safe. I'm always scoping out the clientle that the owner lets in. Some strange catsn and you never know who the loose cannon might be. Shame it has to be like that!
Collector of Early 20th Century U.S. Coinage.
ANA Member R-3147111
<< <i>Shame neither of the two victims were carrying a handgun, quite likely would have had a different outcome.
From another armed robbery case where the owner was armed. Markedly different outcome...
"If it weren't for my gun, I wouldn't be here," he said. "The last the world would have heard about me would be a blurb on Page 8: 'Coin shop owner shot dead in backroom.' "
Soustek had just opened for business Nov. 3, 2006, when a 40-year-old man exited his Mercedes and walked inside Westlake Cards, Comics & Coins in Roselle. Geoffrey Webb browsed for 10 to 15 minutes, making small talk with Soustek about coin collecting.
Suddenly, Webb jumped over the counter and pulled a .357 Magnum from his bag. Soustek, then 49, grabbed his own revolver and the two began shooting.
In 2.8 seconds, a dozen rounds were fired. One of Soustek's bullets hit Webb's spine and knocked him to the ground... >>
Easy to say. Sounds like the perp had already decided to take out the proprieter and anyone else there. Even if you are armed or have it close by unless you can immediately sense intent then the perp has the edge. He knows he is going to take you out, but you don't. The reason crooks get taken out is they shoot as a means of last resort instead of first offense. If I know/suspect you are armed I plan accordingly; this guy apparently did too.
in the area are interesting, there is really no such thing as a "safe" community, this kind of horrible thing can happen anywhere at
anytime. I hope they catch the scum who did this.
<< <i>
<< <i>Shame neither of the two victims were carrying a handgun, quite likely would have had a different outcome.
From another armed robbery case where the owner was armed. Markedly different outcome...
"If it weren't for my gun, I wouldn't be here," he said. "The last the world would have heard about me would be a blurb on Page 8: 'Coin shop owner shot dead in backroom.' "
Soustek had just opened for business Nov. 3, 2006, when a 40-year-old man exited his Mercedes and walked inside Westlake Cards, Comics & Coins in Roselle. Geoffrey Webb browsed for 10 to 15 minutes, making small talk with Soustek about coin collecting.
Suddenly, Webb jumped over the counter and pulled a .357 Magnum from his bag. Soustek, then 49, grabbed his own revolver and the two began shooting.
In 2.8 seconds, a dozen rounds were fired. One of Soustek's bullets hit Webb's spine and knocked him to the ground... >>
Easy to say. Sounds like the perp had already decided to take out the proprieter and anyone else there. Even if you are armed or have it close by unless you can immediately sense intent then the perp has the edge. He knows he is going to take you out, but you don't. The reason crooks get taken out is they shoot as a means of last resort instead of first offense. If I know/suspect you are armed I plan accordingly; this guy apparently did too. >>
Yup, sounds like an excellent reason not to arm yourself and at least give yourself the chance at survival. Since the criminal obviously would have taken an armed victim into account it's plainly clear that the two victims did the right thing and just let themselves get killed without a mess.
<< <i>I think I'll go to the range this weekend.--jerry >>
That's the right attitude.
<< <i> Easy to say. Sounds like the perp had already decided to take out the proprieter and anyone else there. Even if you are armed or have it close by unless you can immediately sense intent then the perp has the edge. He knows he is going to take you out, but you don't. The reason crooks get taken out is they shoot as a means of last resort instead of first offense. If I know/suspect you are armed I plan accordingly; this guy apparently did too. >>
Yes, the second half of self defense is to be able to kill/disable the perp before he does the same to you. Sounds like this guy was (and therefore still is) good. --jerry
a wild animal would
and then only if he/she hasn't eaten recently
<< <i>
<< <i> Easy to say. Sounds like the perp had already decided to take out the proprieter and anyone else there. Even if you are armed or have it close by unless you can immediately sense intent then the perp has the edge. He knows he is going to take you out, but you don't. The reason crooks get taken out is they shoot as a means of last resort instead of first offense. If I know/suspect you are armed I plan accordingly; this guy apparently did too. >>
Yes, the second half of self defense is to be able to kill/disable the perp before he does the same to you. Sounds like this guy was (and therefore still is) good. --jerry >>
Yup. He had the element of surprise and likely took out the probably armed proprieter first and the likely unarmed customer next. Fortunately most crooks don't have the nads to act in such a brazen manner.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Shame neither of the two victims were carrying a handgun, quite likely would have had a different outcome.
From another armed robbery case where the owner was armed. Markedly different outcome...
"If it weren't for my gun, I wouldn't be here," he said. "The last the world would have heard about me would be a blurb on Page 8: 'Coin shop owner shot dead in backroom.' "
Soustek had just opened for business Nov. 3, 2006, when a 40-year-old man exited his Mercedes and walked inside Westlake Cards, Comics & Coins in Roselle. Geoffrey Webb browsed for 10 to 15 minutes, making small talk with Soustek about coin collecting.
Suddenly, Webb jumped over the counter and pulled a .357 Magnum from his bag. Soustek, then 49, grabbed his own revolver and the two began shooting.
In 2.8 seconds, a dozen rounds were fired. One of Soustek's bullets hit Webb's spine and knocked him to the ground... >>
Easy to say. Sounds like the perp had already decided to take out the proprieter and anyone else there. Even if you are armed or have it close by unless you can immediately sense intent then the perp has the edge. He knows he is going to take you out, but you don't. The reason crooks get taken out is they shoot as a means of last resort instead of first offense. If I know/suspect you are armed I plan accordingly; this guy apparently did too. >>
Yup, sounds like an excellent reason not to arm yourself and at least give yourself the chance at survival. Since the criminal obviously would have taken an armed victim into account it's plainly clear that the two victims did the right thing and just let themselves get killed without a mess. >>
Not much you can do when the other guy has the drop on you; he probly caught the owner totally off guard.
No metal doors, no 'buzzing' you in.
The owner is usually out of sight in the back room, with another guy at the counter.
Does the owner have a gun back there? Don't know, but seems like a guy who might.
Camera's around the joint, but that only means there'll be a clip in the news if something happens.
Both victims shot in the back of the head....isn't that gangland?
Not saying the victim were involved, just the killer(s).
<< <i>Yup. He had the element of surprise and likely took out the probably armed proprieter first and the likely unarmed customer next. >>
Highly unlikely. The article said that the proprietor was found dead at the foot of a safe and the customer was found dead inside the retail area of the store. Doubtfull that the criminal came in shot the owner, then shot the customer and then dragged the owner over to the safe and dumped his body there.
<< <i>
<< <i>Yup. He had the element of surprise and likely took out the probably armed proprieter first and the likely unarmed customer next. >>
Highly unlikely. The article said that the proprietor was found dead at the foot of a safe and the customer was found dead inside the retail area of the store. Doubtfull that the criminal came in shot the owner, then shot the customer and then dragged the owner over to the safe and dumped his body there. >>
The owner may well have been at the safe at the time. We don't know that. And neither of us know anything of the layout of the place. My scenario is quite possible given the scant details from the article.
<< <i>ziggy29 has the right ideal.
Yup; too bad it takes 15 years and millions of $$ to Git R Done.
One day two guys came in (20-ish), when Al was in the store alone. They acted a bit strange, according to Al, and then left. About 5 minutes later, they came back in, guns drawn. One of these useless thugs marched Al to the back of the store, where he had additional inventory in a large safe. They forced him to open the safe, which he did, but what they didn't realize was old Al had a fully loaded .357 in the safe for just such an occasion.
Al grabbed the .357, turned around and just started firing. The two guys, thank God, didn’t exchange gunfire, but instead bailed from the store, and were captured just a few blocks away.
When Al recounted this story to me, about a week after it happened, he showed me two .357 bullet holes in the casing of the front door to his shop. He then pointed directly across the street to a busy McDonald’s restaurant. He said “I could have easily killed a kid in their play area. I was so shook up, and I was just firing randomly, without really thinking. I figured I was going to be killed.”
I told him he did the right thing – I just wish he had hit both punks in the back of the head.
Sadly, Al closed the shop a few years later. I think the whole fiasco was very upsettling. He never really recovered from it.
The Motto: Watch your background, and hit them between the eyes…
Dave
<< <i>He then pointed directly across the street to a busy McDonald’s restaurant. He said “I could have easily killed a kid in their play area >>
He failed to factor in his field of fire. Something he should have done when he put the gun in the safe the very first time. Lack of training. Train, train, train...
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
We need to stop this crazy war on pot and step up the war on criminals. Can't do both. I say let's get the criminals.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
That is a sad story and my best wishes to their families.
<< <i>It really reminds me of the complexities of this hobby. It's sad that many of us have to keep our prizes in safety deposit boxes and not advertise locally that we collect this stuff.
That is a sad story and my best wishes to their families. >>
Ditto. And if I might add, this is the kind of thing that happens to professionals in the business who are well aware of the dangers and over the years have learned to take all the precautions. So imagine if you are not "show smart", or "share" your collecting strategies with strangers
At the FUN show in January I went to a steak house in Orlando . Right next to me was a table of about 8 or 10 guys that I gathered from hearing the conversations that consited of a number of board members who were all talking about, well, coins of course but in many cases LOUDLY talking about a score they made here and there, what this item was worth when cracked out etc. There was also a board member among them who was a "dealer" who obviously thought he was mentoring this table full of people talking about his scores, how much money he had been dealing with at the show etc. Other people in the restaurant were looking and listening to these guys.
One of the things that came to my mind was "blind leading the blind" although in this particular case, people get killed for that type of talk.
Perhaps a thread with some security tips might be in order although the dirtbags who would like to rip us ande our Families off also read these forums. This really can be a dangerous "hobby" and some really don't give enough thought to security and safety.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>People are always calling and asking if they can sell "X" for cash. We tell them we don't keep that much cash on hand, but that they can cash our check at our bank next door. >>
Exactly what we do at our shop, plus I don't put much gold out neither. Well, that at I carry a 45 and my partner carries a 40, with two shotguns and two 357 hidden strategically around the shop. Also my two safes form a sort of strong barrier that we come out and hide behind until we see who is there. Usually only one of us is out with a single person or two and I am in the back at the ready in case anything goes down.
It really helps that I am in a "good" area (yeah define good) but really I have a horrible location for criminals to try anything. Small street, in between two stops signs that always back up with cars. The police station is a stones throw away and there are usually about 50-100 people walking around within about 30-40 feet either direction.
morris
** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! **
Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY
28480 B OLD TOWN FRONT ST
TEMECULA, CA 92590
(951) 757-0334
www.allvalleycoinandjewelry.com
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<< <i>He then pointed directly across the street to a busy McDonald’s restaurant. He said “I could have easily killed a kid in their play area >>
He failed to factor in his field of fire. Something he should have done when he put the gun in the safe the very first time. Lack of training. Train, train, train... >>
All the training in the world can't prepare you for the real thing because that training usually lacks the "real thing" that is the adrenaline rush and excitement factors that come into play and color one's judgement and reaction times. Targets at the pistol range don't shoot back either. Why do so many [including the good guys] MISS at such close ranges. His biggest mistake was failing to properly assess the situation and his needs at the time he picked his personal defense weapon. Considering the area OVERpenetration should have been a primary concern. Since most action would likely come within the confines of his store something like the Glaser Safety Slugs would have been more appropriate.
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<< <i>
<< <i>He then pointed directly across the street to a busy McDonald’s restaurant. He said “I could have easily killed a kid in their play area >>
He failed to factor in his field of fire. Something he should have done when he put the gun in the safe the very first time. Lack of training. Train, train, train... >>
All the training in the world can't prepare you for the real thing because that training usually lacks the "real thing" that is the adrenaline rush and excitement factors that come into play and color one's judgement and reaction times. Targets at the pistol range don't shoot back either. >>
Yeah so one might as well never train right? I'ts useless right?
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>He then pointed directly across the street to a busy McDonald’s restaurant. He said “I could have easily killed a kid in their play area >>
He failed to factor in his field of fire. Something he should have done when he put the gun in the safe the very first time. Lack of training. Train, train, train... >>
All the training in the world can't prepare you for the real thing because that training usually lacks the "real thing" that is the adrenaline rush and excitement factors that come into play and color one's judgement and reaction times. Targets at the pistol range don't shoot back either. >>
Yeah so one might as well never train right? I'ts useless right?
I never said it was useless, just that it aint the total answer. If you were a hunter you would know what "buck fever" is. Same thing applies here. I think if one is contemplating keeping weapons around in a business it might be prudent to consult with an expert about what your needs would be if one was to use them.
That choice didn't have that much to do with training, its more a matter of using the right tool for the right job or jitters or more likely failure to think clearly under duress. What is a good weapon/ammo choice for one situation, may not be a wise option for another.
<< <i>Sad story, but it's just another day which we live in the great USA. I will tell you this I will go out with a glory, I don't trust no one. >>
Not much you can do when the other guy has the drop on you; he probly caught the owner totally off guard.
I agree fully...proprietor executed at the safe...that miserable POS picked it for a reason, was probably in their as a customer, knew it wasn't busy. He marched in, shot the customer first, quickly, had 'the drop', on the owner, at gunpoint, the owner opened the safe, and executed right after opening the safe. I say this because there are many of that type of shop near me, and I have been in more than a few to maybe get a nice rip, as coins are a second thought....all they have is a Red Book and a loupe and try to grade themselves (a similar business, meaning a 'buy and sell' all things , not limited to coins). All have the same basic setup...get buzzed in, at the front door, while the workers mainly stay (you know, sit, stand, gather at, etc)at the last display towards the back, safes mostly in back......again, this POS had the drop on both guys, went in knowing full well he was going to kill them to make it a cakewalk for him (these guys were flat out executed, he wasted little time in doing it)...immediately shot customer, maybe before the door shut....
He DESERVES the death penalty (does MI still have an 'old sparky', or lethal injection, I don't know...anyone??? He is a cold, calculating, premeditative murderer. My guess is he was in the shop for less than 4 minutes......
Just my hypothesis....you may agree or disagree, but we ALL agree there is a cowardly, cold blooded, murdering POS that needs to be punished, not guaged by the judicial systems rules...there are two families that will be plenty messed up for years and years (the poor daughter has to find her father executed like he was a 'stooly' and he got whacked Tony Soprano style). This tyoe of criminal should be judged 'eye for an eye'...not preaching scripture, not going there...but it IS a just measure for this kind of heinous crime. Unfortunately for 300,000,000 of us citizens, our judicial system NEEDS to be proactive. In reality, it is merely REactive. (need to end here, as I am passionate about the state of the judicial system in general, and have little faith in it as it currently is...my dad is a retired trooper in Mass...he was shot once...you can't EVER imagine, NEVER, what the waiting is like...seconds seem like hours...the POS shooter gets 5-10 years because his record wasnt that of a career criminal, DA accepted a plea to a lesser charge, and a guy that tried to kill my dad, a COP for gosh sakes....5-10. His buddy, another cop, killed in the line....life, but shooter gets to live, and our tax money provides him things that SOME hardworking families may not even have....see why I have to stop??? PROACTIVE, not REACTIVE...start emptying out death rows, make examples...'If you do this, you WILL get this' gotta go now...)
edited to change 'stikk' to 'still'