Please Grade this Toned Bust Quarter UPDATE....Just received my crossover grade from PCGS

PQMorgans · July 2, 2008 6:10AM

UPDATE....Just received my crossover grade from PCGS Hit this link for PCGS Grade Info

Please grade this toned bust quarter with PCGS standards, Its a ANACS XF45 and I want an idea of what it will cross to PCGS. So please give me your honest opinion. Be brutally honest, I can take ...I think. I need to see if this is a long time keeper or not.

The coin in hand has nice cartwheel luster both sides overall med tan color with toned reflective luster (including the stripes in the obv field)( my only least Favorite part of coin but it is toned luster) Colors of tone are golden to orange russet to light blue/ blue green and light up when tilted even in low light by a window.

The coin is an 1834 B1 R1 (will know better when new book arrives)

top of A in america filled

die crack connecting top of O to top of F,

tiny die chip in field between F and A.

Small rough lump from rust on die below R

Also please guess on what its value is.

And lastly... Would you prefer a ANACS XF45 or a PCGS XF40 (possibly a VF35)

Thanks in advance

numisma · July 2, 2008 6:31AM

Beautiful coin. With your in-depth description, I would say that it will cross as PCGS XF45 (at the minimum, maybe higher). The lines in the left obverse field is just toning and will not affect the technical grade. Dick is a good guy to work with, too.

doh · July 2, 2008 6:49AM

Yeah, looks awesome to me too. If you didn't say ANACS XF45 I would have though AU50 for sure. Lovely coin, I think it would cross at 45 at least, no question.

JxnBoy · July 2, 2008 6:52AM

I agree that it's an XF. Whether PCGS says 40 or 45, not sure. With the definition remaining on the top of the wings, I'd lean toward properly graded at 45 now.

NumisOxide · July 2, 2008 6:59AM

Lovely Bust 25c! Attractive toning. Probably XF-40, shot XF-45 at PCGS.

rhedden · July 2, 2008 6:59AM

I'd say XF40 or XF45 details, but I do not know if this will slab at PCGS. It has the look of a coin that was dipped ages ago, and retoned naturally and attractively. I have owned many coins like this, which were stored in old National Coin Albums and retoned naturally over a period of decades after an old dipping. Sometimes they slab, sometimes they don't. You might get a "questionable color" bodybag if it's submitted for grading. It's a pretty coin, and I wouldn't care if it slabbed or not. I'd keep it, even if it's raw. You'll have a very hard time completing a Bust quarter set if you insist on totally original, gray coins with all the dirt adhering. My entire Bust H10c set has this kind of toning, except maybe one coin that is truly original.

PQMorgans · July 2, 2008 7:55AM

<< <i>You'll have a very hard time completing a Bust quarter >>

Just looking for a few PQ type coins. I am not that familiar with these bust quarters, I searched and viewed online as many PCGS VF35 to XF 45 bust quarters from 1830 to 1837 and I could not come up with a grade on my coin. I try always to grade as PCGS does as most of my coins are slabbed at PCGS.

Keep the comments coming please. Thanks

rhedden · July 2, 2008 8:17AM

If you are looking for a single type coin, I might hold out for a totally original, dirty example, assuming that look pleases you. Most coins with pretty, colored toning are going to be lightly cleaned pieces that retoned over the years. These are "market acceptable," and they sure are nice to look at, but original they are not. Many of them are holdered by PCGS or NGC because they have nice eye appeal and are considered problem-free. You should be able to locate a choice example with the original dirt with a few months of searching, assuming that you don't care which date it is.

If you collect by die marriage, or even by date alone, then accepting a few coins that are not totally original is almost a necessity. When you get down to acquiring better dates and varieties like 1796, 1804, 1806/5, 1822 25/50, 1824/2, 1825/2, 1828 25/50, etc., you will pay through the nose for a totally original coin in a PCGS slab. I would really like to see someone complete a set of Bust 25c, in which every single coin is totally original and gray; no cleaned, dipped, or album-toned pieces included, just old gray silver & dirt, like they came out of a bank vault after 150 years of storage. That would be quite a set, especially if the 1823/2 and 1827 were included. Maybe it's impossible?

Broadstruck · July 2, 2008 8:34AM

Real nice should cross no issues as it doesn't look like it is a hairy hairlined beast like so many in the XF graded holders.

coinkat · July 2, 2008 10:04AM

PCGS is very tough on these... I think 40 is mostlikely

Quarternut · July 2, 2008 10:14AM

PQM
As stated by others, I believe it should cross as a 45 (however, seeing it in hand I may put a disclaimer on that as there may be something I am unable to see in the photo).

On a good day PCGS may even give it a 50, as I sure see a lot of "crappy" looking coins in their slabs that they have called a 50, where this looks to be a nice coin for the grade. They will also grade on eye appeal and may bump it or lower it according to what the grader sees as attractive or distracting.

Your coin is indeed an 1834 B-1 and a relatively early die stage as only the first A in AMERICA is filled at the top. The next stage will show the top of the A in STATES filled, and then the obverse die will begin to show die cracks. The line from the top of the O to the F in OF is not a die crack, but repunching, as the entire legend and the eagles claws are also repunched.

This die marriage is probably the most common marriage for the whole 1831-1838 type. In spite of that, it is also one of the most intriguing die marriages as well.

The 1833 B-2 and the 1834 B-1 die marriages share the same reverse die, one that is a true anomaly. It was created as a test for changing the reverse stripes from 3 lines to 2 lines. This was evidently done to conform with the same changes already made for the Bust Dimes & Half-Dimes. Obviously they decided that it was unattractive or un-necessary, as this is the only reverse die to show these features.

Another intriguing theory is that this reverse die was actually made by Christian Gobrecht and not William Kneass. Kneass was the Chief engraver in 1833-34 and Gobrecht was not actually hired as a mint employee until the latter part of 1835 when Kneass suffered a stroke. Gobrecht was most likely working off and on for the mint sort of like a contract laborer from as early as 1823 until he became a “second” engraver in 1835.

Nice piece!

I would really like to see someone complete a set of Bust 25c, in which every single coin is totally original and gray; no cleaned, dipped, or album-toned pieces included, just old gray silver & dirt, like they came out of a bank vault after 150 years of storage. That would be quite a set, especially if the 1823/2 and 1827 were included. Maybe it's impossible?

I would say that that is not a possibility at 100%, but could be done at least at 80%, provided a consistent grade was not a factor.

QN

PQMorgans · July 2, 2008 11:05AM

This is why I love this forum, I learn so much. And the members are all so willing to share their knowledge. Thanks to all and its going to shipped off to PCGS to cross, I hope. I will post the grade when it I receive it. Thanks for all your opinions. I am still open to others as well Thanks Again.

DoubleEagle59 · July 2, 2008 11:13AM

I like it very much!!

xf45 to au50

Walkerguy21D · July 2, 2008 11:33AM

Nice coin, regardless!
For what it's worth, the 'story' going around at Summer FUN is that PCGS is grading extremely tough right now. As one example, a dealer friend of mine, with a very good eye, submitted 8 early type coins via the express service at FUN at $100/per coin. 2 were BB'd, and 4 were grossly under graded. He submits lots of coins and generally does pretty well, but was devastated with this result.

PQMorgans · July 2, 2008 1:26PM

<< <i>For what it's worth, the 'story' going around at Summer FUN is that PCGS is grading extremely tough right now. As one example, a dealer friend of mine, with a very good eye, submitted 8 early type coins via the express service at FUN at $100/per coin. 2 were BB'd, and 4 were grossly under graded. He submits lots of coins and generally does pretty well, but was devastated with this result. >>

mozin · July 2, 2008 2:53PM

This coin looks to have XF details, but from the pictures there is no way I would say what PCGS would do with it. Ordinarily, an ANACS 45 would at best go PCGS 40, with VF more likely.

PQMorgans · July 3, 2008 2:33AM

Thanks Again to all

SirAnthonyAC · July 3, 2008 2:41AM

Gorgeous coin!

IMHO, the hair is too flattened and missing too many details to be AU but, the over all impression is very sharp and it's only worn at the high points, I’d venture to give it an EF40 maybe an EF45 if the tone and luster are better than I see in the photo... the pics are a wee bit on the blurry side.

No matter what… GREAT COIN and congrats, that’s a sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet addition to your collection!

PQMorgans · October 6, 2008 3:17PM

UPDATE....Just received my crossover grade from PCGS Hit this link for PCGS Grade Info

DennisH · October 6, 2008 3:41PM

Immediate gut reaction to a series I've never owned an example of: XF45.

lordmarcovan · October 6, 2008 3:44PM

OK, I decided to potentially embarrass myself by guessing the grade BEFORE peeking at your link.

I've got plenty of company, though- I'm with the XF45 crowd. Regardless of what it really graded (I'll peek after I post), I think that is one helluva lovely Busty quaddah.

Now, the suspense is killin' me... a clickin' I shall go...

lordmarcovan · October 6, 2008 3:45PM

I looked.

But I won't spill the beans and spoil it for anybody else who wants to guess before peeking.

Say, did you TrueView that one? I would have.

Quarternut · October 6, 2008 3:58PM

Glad you got your cross, as it does look like a nice coin.

QN

Please Grade this Toned Bust Quarter UPDATE....Just received my crossover grade from PCGS

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