Wisconsin Extra Leaf Statehood Quarters
HIGHLOWLEAVES
Posts: 790 ✭✭✭
I know that the vast majority of Forum members have a deep dislike for modern coins and 99% of coin collectors seem to have wanted the WI variety coins to simply Go Away and never be mentioned again !! Maybe it is my old age and lack of keen wisdom but I still think that there is a place for these two coins in a complete set of Statehood Quarters. The two coins are still going down in value on Ebay though the PCGS and NGC Pops rarely climb much each week. As of 6/16/08, the total of both companies is: 8,998 Lows and 6,646 Highs. That is rather low compared to the estd. 47,000 2008/07 ASE coins which are Hot at the moment. I like the ASE error and expect it to be a great collector coin. So, are the WI coins dead after their unwarranted run up on Ebay back in 2006 and their large decline ever since ? I am really trying to understand if the WI coins merit futher buying consideration or not. Comments......
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<< <i>I know that the vast majority of Forum members have a deep dislike for modern coins and 99% of coin collectors seem to have wanted the WI variety coins to simply Go Away and never be mentioned again !! Maybe it is my old age and lack of keen wisdom but I still think that there is a place for these two coins in a complete set of Statehood Quarters. The two coins are still going down in value on Ebay though there PCGS and NGC Pops rarely climb much each week. As of 6/16/08, the total of both companies is: 8,998 Lows and 6,646 Highs. That is rather low compared to the estd. 47,000 2008/07 ASE coins which are Hot at the monent. I like the ASE error and expect it to be a great collector coin. So, are the WI coins dead after their unwarranted run up on Ebay back in 2006 and their large decline ever sense? I am really trying to understand if the WI coins merit futher buying consideration or not. Comments...... >>
So thats 8998 available lows, 6646 available highs, and maybe 1,000 collectors worldwide who actually want one of each? The ASE '08/07 coins are in a similar boat. I'd guess that 90% or better of all bought and sold right now are by speculating dealer/flippers, and not by end users. That bubble will burst eventually too.
<< <i>and maybe 1,000 collectors worldwide who actually want one of each? >>
That may be understated just a bit.
Does Whitman, dansco, capitol, etc., registry sets, etc. have slots for them? If not, and when they do the demand will rise noticably IMO.
<< <i>I know that the vast majority of Forum members have a deep dislike for modern coins and 99% of coin collectors seem to have wanted the WI variety coins to simply Go Away and never be mentioned again !!..... Comments...... >>
I don't think that's true at all. I think the vast majority of Forum members probably collect classic AND modern coins. There are a vocal few, in both camps, who give the (false) impression of a deep divide between the two pursuits.
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
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<< <i>and maybe 1,000 collectors worldwide who actually want one of each? >>
That may be understated just a bit.
Does Whitman, dansco, capitol, etc., registry sets, etc. have slots for them? If not, and when they do the demand will rise noticably IMO.
Demand would rise for any carefully planned promotional coin. And if this variety were to be included in all of your above list, thats exactly what it would be....a carefully planned promotion.
The coin is a flop when considered on its own merits.
<< <i>The unlettered-edge Presidential dollars captured the nation's attention on a mass-media level that the extra-leaf Wisconsin quarters never saw. I wonder why? The state quarters program was the highest-visibility Mint program at the time, and the idea of finding a valuable rarity in your pocket change captures the public imagination. Why did the unlettered-edge Presidentials get so much publicity, and the Wisconsins so little? >>
One was about leaving the word "God" off our coinage.....the other was about a silly die chip.
<< <i>The coin is a flop when considered on its own merits. >>
A flop? The coins are the only bona fide varieties in the series. Perhaps prices are down from the initial frenzy, but the coins themselves are interesting and exist in a quantity that, given the numbers of SQ collectors, almost assures future appreciation.
Think 1955DDO Lincoln. No Dansco hole for that, yet many Lincoln collectors consider it a necessity for a truly complete set. At some point, the WI coins will be regarded similarly.
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
<< <i>
The coin is a flop when considered on its own merits. >>
Not sure where that came from....
At the local show in AZ, there was nearly a roll of each in front of me offered at $20 a set. Another good friend sold my father two sets for $10 per set.
If slots were made in the Whitman/Dansco albums for the high/low leafs, I would buy the album!
I don't know where these will "settle" in the long run price-wise, but I'd certainly expect that SQ collectors will find them of major interest indefinitely. This is a substantial and interesting numismatic phenomenon, IMO, right there with the three-legged Buff.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>
<< <i>
The coin is a flop when considered on its own merits. >>
Not sure where that came from....
What I meant by that is that the coin saw the typical frenzy and rise in value after it was discovered, and leveled off, and is now down quite a bit. It wont see another significant rise in price unless Dansco and Whitman get on board and include holes. Therefore, without that happening, the coin is a flop on its own merits (independent of some promotion).
Phil quit bashing my moderns and predicting a crash
Joe
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I have both varieties in PCGS 64 holders. They are one of the few interesting stories to come out of the mint in a long time, IMO.
To each his own....
Comparing these to the 08/07 SAE is a perfect example of what can and does happen in the numismatic community of today. The absolute biggest difference between the Wisconsin Extra Leaf quarters and any other numismatic oddity is the Internet and high speed communication.
The Internet enabled more people to hear about, purchase, speculate, and collect these coins than any other numismatic event in the past! Over an extrememly short period of time, prices didn't just rise but they rocketed to the stratosphere!
I suspect that there will be more coins and situations of this nature in the future that the savy buyer needs to be cautious with.
Do the Wisconsin extra leaf quarters belong in a Complete Set of Statehood quarters? Absolutly! Right along with the 64 Minnesota extra tree quarters, and the doubled ears and now the extra cactus quarters.
Whether their importance survives the test of time is only something that time will tell. The one thing that is certain is that folks are looking at "other" things at this point in time and I just don;t see the prices continuing to go up on these. Quite the opposite will occur with the exception of the high grade examples which should maintain their current values based upon current economic conditions.
The name is LEE!
The coins are now listed in the Red Book (with photographs and line-item values). What effect do you think this will have?
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<< <i>
<< <i>
The coin is a flop when considered on its own merits. >>
Not sure where that came from....
What I meant by that is that the coin saw the typical frenzy and rise in value after it was discovered, and leveled off, and is now down quite a bit. It wont see another significant rise in price unless Dansco and Whitman get on board and include holes. Therefore, without that happening, the coin is a flop on its own merits (independent of some promotion). >>
I'm not picking on you Gecko but I see this statement so often that I'm really beginning to wonder if it actually has merit?
If Whitman and Dansco were to include this in their albums, how could that possibly affect the price? New collector's perhaps? I don't think so since most folks who are starting out in the hobby will have visited a coin shop and will already know about these coins. Perhaps the holes will keep them in the public eye but I don't really think it will affect pricing since the coin is readily available and easily obtained.
I certainly am not dissing the coin as I got in on the ground floor and have a couple for my collection. But I have also watched as the selling price of what I have has slowly gone down. $300 on the low and $200 on the high from the last time I checked. To me, that definitely says that the wave is over and folks simply need to watch where these level off at. And they will level off at some point simply because there are many ungraded examples still floating around out there!
Imagine what would happen if someone came across a BU hoard and had them all graded at once? The pops would shoot up and the prices would fall. Given the fact that this is a modern mintage coin, literally anything could happen and its a risk that the speculator's have to accept. It HAS happened before (recently) and it CAN happen again.
The name is LEE!
I 100% like the coins. I'll be holding on to mine for the long haul. Nothing new to add, just want to voice my support.
I would've thought the Red book coming out recentely would've given them a bump, but obviously hasn't happened yet.
I as well would like to know who to contact at whitman to get them included in the books. Anyone have a clue who to email where we can start a campaign ?
There's a line for "What part of the Red Book do you like the most?"
and another line for "What other content would you like to see?"
If you send your card in and write something like, Include more information about the Wisconsin extra leaf quarters, it will be tallied.
I know that's not directly related to folders and albums, so:
Here on the CU Forum board, you could start a poll where people can click "Yes" or "No": Should Whitman and Dansco include the Extra Leaf High and Extra Leaf Low Wisconsin quarters in their folders and albums?
Or write a letter to:
Whitman Publishing, LLC
Attn: Dennis Tucker, publisher
3101 Clairmont Rd, Suite C
Atlanta GA 30329
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<< <i>I know that the vast majority of Forum members have a deep dislike for modern coins and 99% of coin collectors seem to have wanted the WI variety coins to simply Go Away and never be mentioned again !!..... Comments...... >>
I don't think that's true at all. I think the vast majority of Forum members probably collect classic AND modern coins. There are a vocal few, in both camps, who give the (false) impression of a deep divide between the two pursuits. >>
I cant be sure but also think this is true.
<< <i>Almost all of these coins have been searched . Everybody was buying every unopened roll they could find a couple of years ago so there is not going to be a big batch discovered. I am sure that a spot in an album would make more people feel the need to fill it. >>
I'm sure you're right and there are none left in the system but it's
a fairly safe bet that there are a few hoards surviving by people
who found them back in the day.
Buyers really shouldn't be verly concerned with this since price is
determined much more by demand than supply. If you're collecting
the price is not a major factor and if you're investing then you need
to be concerned with demand, not supply.
Look at the '82-NMM dime. This is nearly comparable in importance
and mintage but the price of these has never gotten off the dime, as
it were, because there just aren't that many collectors of clad dimes.
There are plenty of collectors of the states coins and as time goes on
there should be increasing numbers of serious collectors and increas-
ing demand.
I hardly saw this price decline coming but that doesn't change demo-
graphics and normal collector behavior.
<< <i>Three months out and the 2008/07 ASE is priced in the Greysheet !!!! Congratulations to whomever is responsible . Why haven't the so called rare WI extra leaf coins made it into the Greysheet after three long years ?? Is it wide spread appeal that helped the ASE ? Is it which dealers are sponsoring the ASE and not the WI coins ? Is it that HSN sells the 2008/07 coins on a regular basis and not the WI quarters ? One confused Texas coin collector !! >>
I suspect a lot of people were predisposed to hate these coins.
In the long run this too will be beneficial to demand.
<< <i>
<< <i>Three months out and the 2008/07 ASE is priced in the Greysheet !!!! Congratulations to whomever is responsible . Why haven't the so called rare WI extra leaf coins made it into the Greysheet after three long years ?? Is it wide spread appeal that helped the ASE ? Is it which dealers are sponsoring the ASE and not the WI coins ? Is it that HSN sells the 2008/07 coins on a regular basis and not the WI quarters ? One confused Texas coin collector !! >>
I suspect a lot of people were predisposed to hate these coins.
In the long run this too will be beneficial to demand. >>
That does seem true, Cladking. We find it in the initial and continued reviling by some dealers. It appears even in this thread ("One was about leaving the word "God" off our coinage.....the other was about a silly die chip. ").
One for whatever reason may not find this uncanny placement and its unresolved story of any particular personal interest. But I honestly don't understand the strong insistence among some to discredit and disparage these issues. It strikes me as one of the most interesting and mysterious numismatic events of recent years, and the very sort of thing that makes this hobby such fun.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Dennis, I think that having prices in the Red Book gives the coins (and any coin) a comfort level for buyers. Any buyer out there wants a reassurance that what they are buying has a value that can be verified. The WI Quarters seem to be at a level where buyers are quite happy and any people who are holding investor lots are simply holding on.
The population is the real key in determining the real rarity of these coins. There is no smoke and mirrors with population reports. I don't know of anyone who is sitting on uncertified sets waiting to send them in. They have done it already. The increases in the pop from here on is resubmissions.
Box of 20
<< <i>Click here to ask the greysheet to put WI Extra Leaf prices in their publication.
Dennis, I think that having prices in the Red Book gives the coins (and any coin) a comfort level for buyers. Any buyer out there wants a reassurance that what they are buying has a value that can be verified. The WI Quarters seem to be at a level where buyers are quite happy and any people who are holding investor lots are simply holding on.
The population is the real key in determining the real rarity of these coins. There is no smoke and mirrors with population reports. I don't know of anyone who is sitting on uncertified sets waiting to send them in. They have done it already. The increases in the pop from here on is resubmissions. >>
There are still a few raw coins on eBay yet still Rick of which I am certain that you are aware. I have a raw one to send in but it isn't a high grade example and most of what I see certainly aren't high grade examples.
These are definitely unique coins but I don't know that I'd classify them as rare with populations around 15,000 in all grades from both services. The Eisenhower Type 2 has less than 1,200 graded in all grades which would make it much rarer than the Wisconsin coin but the popularity simply isn't there.
It will be interesting to see exactly where the extra leaf quarters end up in another 5 or 10 years.
The name is LEE!
A year ago, I talked to the retired US Mint engraver who is credited for the Wisconsin Quarter design. That person stated almost immediately that in their opinion the addition of the extra low and high leafs were "NO" die gouge !! That these extra elements were the handy work of someone in the Denver Die shop. Non believers will remain regardless of any future facts. They never cared for the coin and have no interest in them. I can hardly think of any US coin that has had so much controversy concerning their origin. Rick, where is your Wisconsin Quarter book ??
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A year ago, I talked to the retired US Mint engraver who is credited for the Wisconsin Quarter design. That person stated almost immediately that in their opinion the addition of the extra low and high leafs were "NO" die gouge !! That these extra elements were the handy work of someone in the Denver Die shop. Non believers will remain regardless of any future facts. They never cared for the coin and have no interest in them. I can hardly think of any US coin that has had so much controversy concerning their origin. Rick, where is your Wisconsin Quarter book ?? >>
This was my initial reaction right from the beginning. It's obvious that
the two coins were produced together to prove that they were not ac-
cidental. The only question in my mind was whether these were the re-
sult of intentional and official design changes or if they were intentional
and officially sanctioned. But in any case they are necessarily the result
of intention.
<< <i>
Question: if you were a worker in the Denver Mint die shop in 2004 and wanted to play around, was there any better 2004 state quarter design to horse around with than the Wisconsin Quarter? Who was going to care about changing the design of a quarter that had a cow, a piece of cheese and a corn cob already on it ? !! Please comment ..... >>
Lol.
I suppose they might have added the Macinac Bridge to some Michigan
coins and the Peace Bridge to otheres.
But that would be much more subtle and require less artistic expression.
<< <i>Three months out and the 2008/07 ASE is priced in the Greysheet !!!! Congratulations to whomever is responsible . Why haven't the so called rare WI extra leaf coins made it into the Greysheet after three long years ?? Is it wide spread appeal that helped the ASE ? Is it which dealers are sponsoring the ASE and not the WI coins ? Is it that HSN sells the 2008/07 coins on a regular basis and not the WI quarters ? One confused Texas coin collector !! >>
How much longer do you think HSN will be blowing these ASEs? When the hype dies down they will move on to something else. If they had 200 sets of identically graded leaf quarters you can bet they would push em. ASEs OTOH are gonna be mostly high grade 69, 70 while you would be hard pressed to find 200 sets of high-low quarters in 66. Would be interested in listening to their spiel, great lesson in psychological selling just like that crap they lay on you to get you to buy into these resorts like Hart Ranch near Rapid City, SD..
<< <i>I beleive that a very high percentage of WI Extra Leaf Quarters have been graded now. I know of a few pockets of coins here in Texas and elsewhere and they are 99% graded. The TPG Pops are going up at a very low rate each week. How many of those are resubmissions? >>
The majority are still raw, without a doubt. And there have not been many resubmissions.
<< <i>I beleive that a very high percentage of WI Extra Leaf Quarters have been graded now. >>
I know that I still have 2 boxes unopened of these and I just started collecting. I think that there are several people just like me that havent searched all of what they have bought, or are sitting on the coin and not getting it graded.
You make that sound like fact rather than opinion. I am certian that the pops have leveled off due to a lack of remaining uncertied examples. The largest hoards were in the 400-500 range, and these were accumulated by going through tens of thousands of coins. Remember, only 5-10 coins were ever found in any single roll. There is the slight chance that a holder of a few 100 examples still does not know how to submit them and maximize their value, but I doubt it.
There are people resubmitting these - quite a lot, too.
As for the listing in the Red Book, this is a help to the collector wishing to buy one, rather than the sellers. If they had put out prices in the 2006 edition, there would have been less of a speculation run-up in them in early 2006. The prices set early on in February 2005 proved to be the fair level as they soon after traded slighly higher on ebay. Once the prices got crazy, then some buyers got hurt. A price reference whould have made them think twice at paying MOON money.
<< <i>I know that I still have 2 boxes unopened of these and I just started collecting. I think that there are several people just like me that havent searched all of what they have bought, or are sitting on the coin and not getting it graded. >>
So if they are unopened, there is no guarantee of there even being a single extra leaf in the box. I hope I am wrong, but that also fueled some of the runup in price that Rick talks about. Unopened boxes that were no where near the dates of boxes that the extra leafs were found in went for huge dollars on EBay. Even rolls that you couldn't tell where the heck they came from sold for many times over face. I am one fo those that think that much more than half of these have been submitted for grading, and MAYBE there are a few thousand that are either in unsearched boxes or being kept raw.
Perry
Morgan, modern sets, circulated Kennedys, and Wisconsin error leaf quarter Collector
First (and only - so far) Official "You Suck" Award from Russ 2/9/07
<< <i>Who was going to care about changing the design of a quarter that had a cow, a piece of cheese and a corn cob already on it ? >>
Never quite thought about that although I must admit, when the design was released I was less than impressed!
Actually, I was kinda wondering what in the hell were they thinking!
The name is LEE!
We're talking as though all these issues have either been discovered, or remain in unsearched rolls in the back of collectors' closets.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>
The majority are still raw, without a doubt. And there have not been many resubmissions. >>
I'd agree with the idea that few have been resubmitted and that
there are lots of raw coins. I doubt it's half though.
I'd bet 95%+ have been identified and are known to the owner
but many haven't been submitted because they aren't intended
for sale. This could be bullish for the price though since the hold-
er probably won't submit until much higher prices are achieved.
These coins are just going to be trickling in in any case since so
many hands are involved.