is rare the most over used term in numismatics?
fc
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is rare the most over used term in numismatics?
how can something so rare be seen on the auction block every 3 months?
are collectors/dealers misusing the word constantly?
are collectors fooling themselves into thinking that coins they own
are rare?
i am becoming jaded now days how collectors think the coins we collect
are rare when they are anything but.
maybe 1% of the US coin population could be considered rare, maybe
3% should be considered scarce, with the remainder common as dirt?
maybe even less then that?
ask me that sounds about right. thoughts?
how can something so rare be seen on the auction block every 3 months?
are collectors/dealers misusing the word constantly?
are collectors fooling themselves into thinking that coins they own
are rare?
i am becoming jaded now days how collectors think the coins we collect
are rare when they are anything but.
maybe 1% of the US coin population could be considered rare, maybe
3% should be considered scarce, with the remainder common as dirt?
maybe even less then that?
ask me that sounds about right. thoughts?
0
Comments
greg
www.brunkauctions.com
Yes, I think rare is the most overused term in numismatics.
You sound down tonight.
"Rare" works with Ruth's Chris Steakhouse just fine.
I'm sorry, but a genuine U.S. Coin over 100 years old deserves to be called "rare."
Hey, perhaps we could re-name these rare coins "senior" coins to be politically expedient!!!
.....................................................
History of the US Constitution Coin Set
<< <i>is rare the most over used term in numismatics?
how can something so rare be seen on the auction block every 3 months?
are collectors/dealers misusing the word constantly?
are collectors fooling themselves into thinking that coins they own
are rare?
i am becoming jaded now days how collectors think the coins we collect
are rare when they are anything but.
maybe 1% of the US coin population could be considered rare, maybe
3% should be considered scarce, with the remainder common as dirt?
ask me that sounds about right. thoughts? >>
Rare is a subjective term and as such has different meanings to different people which is further complicated by different rarity types and scales (e.g. conditional, existential, scarcity, etc.). IMO, 'perfect' is a oft-overused term that leaves less to interpretation and as such is the most over-used numismatic term.
Just because a coin auctions regularly doesn't detract from its' rarity - but frequent turnover may be indicative of other factors, profit being the cheif one in my mind.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>is rare the most over used term in numismatics?
how can something so rare be seen on the auction block every 3 months?
>>
If it is only up for auctions once every 3 months, including all auctions in the world, I would definately consider it rare.
In comparision, more common coins (still collectable) are up for auctions multiple times per day on ebay.
So if you imagine a rarity scale like this:
1. coins you receive in your pocket change everyday.
2. coins you receive in your pocket change once every 3 months.
3. coins you probably don't receive in your pocket change at all, but you can buy at auctions (ebay) everyday.
4. coins you can buy at auctions every 3 months
5. coins you can buy at auctions every 10 years
...I would say that category 4 is rare. What else would you call it? It's just a word. Some people would even say extremely rare.
category 5 is of course much rarer. Rare enough to be an ultra rarity.
A bigger problem is all the category 3 coins that are referred to as "extremely rare" on ebay. It's of course true for novices looking through their pocket change, but for collectors it's not true at all.
<< <i>is rare the most over used term in numismatics? >>
Don't you need to define the word before attempting to argue that it is being misused?
<< <i>
<< <i>is rare the most over used term in numismatics? >>
Don't you need to define the word before attempting to argue that it is being misused? >>
how about the defintion of not being encountered very often.
something that appears once every 3 months therefore, could never
be rare.
once every 5 years might fall into the rare category.
"LQQK!" comes in second.
TD
R-1 Common (Population estimated at 1000+)
R-2 Not So Common (501-1000)
R-3 Scarce (201-500)
R-4 Very Scarce (population est. at 76-200)
R-5 Rare (31-75)
R-6 Very Rare (13-30)
R-7 Extremely rare (4-12)
R-8 Unique or Nearly So (1, 2 or 3)
For most coins which are legitimately rare (i.e. R-5 or higher), reasonably good population data does exist and it is possible to be pretty precise.
In any case, I think looking to population data is more logical than focusing on how often one shows up in a public auction.
Sometimes the same rare coin comes up for auction over and over again but it is still rare.
I would also add to the definition of rarity that it depends on how many people want a given coin. 1909SVDB Cent is common as dirt but compared to the number of collectors it is rare enough to demand a premium.
Classic Head Half Eagle is common as well expensive dirt yet crusty original examples are pretty darn rare. Meaning I can go months without seeing one.
I think NT is the most overused - and misapplied. Cheers, RickO
Vietnam Vet 1968-1969
<< <i>fc,
You sound down tonight.
"Rare" works with Ruth's Chris Steakhouse just fine.
I'm sorry, but a genuine U.S. Coin over 100 years old deserves to be called "rare."
Hey, perhaps we could re-name these rare coins "senior" coins to be politically expedient!!!
I like this perspective...just because everyone on this forum has 100's of 100 year old coins doesn't mean the rest of the world shouldn't consider them rare...remember you all have a crazy perspective because, to you, something has to be insanely scarce to be considered truly rare...just my two cents.
One is rare enough for me, the other is not.
Rare may be used out of context more often than not, but the term "junk" is probably the most detrimental term used in numismatics. It keeps the prices down on widgets and keeps a large majority of "logical" people from ever entering the hobby.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
It might be a "rare" find to get a roll of AU/BU widgets, but when people refer to it as "junk" silver... it's impossible to get one's mind to process the fact that it's not. But then, there are those in "higher" income brackets that can only look down their noses at such DOGS.
That's just a counterpoint. No need for debate. It's just my personal observation over the years.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
To start, the coin hobby/market, as a whole, is often referred to as "rare coins" to make the distinction between these and coins that have no collector value. US Gold, that is collected by date/MM, is often referred to as "rare date gold". It is convention to use these terms, and other similar ones, in numismatic circles, and I have no problem with that. It sounds like the OP has a pet peeve, which I completely understand, as I have several of my own that pertain to coins.
I do have issues with those who misrepresent coins as being more scarce than they really are. To some extent, pop reports and EAC censuses and the like have made it considerably more difficult to deceive a buyer in this regard.
I do personally take issue with those who who claim that coins that are not so rare like an 1844-D $5 (known population of around 250 coins) to be "rare" or R7 in uncirculated with probably about a dozen extant coins in that condition. Similarly, when there is a not so rare coin that is rare in a variety that nobody cares about or often even knows about, but the seller is using this fact to overzealously market such a coin, I take issue with this, as well. This is probably a pet peeve of mine because both such situations are fairly commonplace.
<< <i>With the advent of eBay nothing seems so rare! >>
Conversely; with the advent of eBay, everything seems so "RARE"
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>... But if I hear the term "fresh" just one more time aside from in a deli of course I am going to puke. >>
Comments overheard on bourse floors...
"Hey...did you see that guy get FRESH with Laura?...boy did he get a piece of her mind!"
"That dealer over there actually paid me fair market value for my coins. Now ain't that a breath of FRESH air!"
"Whew...it's been a long day on the bourse. I think I'll FRESHen up before we go out to dinner."
"Wow...a collector who isn't insisting on Grey Sheet prices...now that IS reFRESHing!"
Now...don't get your panties all bunched up...I just couldn't resist getting a little FRESH and poking some fun
BTW...in response to the OP... rare is a relative term as many have already said...and more often then not...it is simply hype...
The term that bugs me the most...and is used way too often...is "PQ"... and the most recent term that bugs me is "CAC- Setting the Standard for Quality"...
Here are some repetitive overuses that sound the same every time:
"Wow, did you see how much that [modern coin] sold for?"
"There is no such thing as an MS/PR 70"
"People who pay that much for [modern coin] are morons."
"I can think of a dozen coins I'd rather have than that [expensive moderrn coin]."
The last one is surely a true statement but irrelevant.
--Jerry
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I'd prefer if coins were described based on the number of surviving specimens known (to the extent that data is available) using a rarity scale something like that which has been traditionally used - such as this, for example:
R-1 Common (Population estimated at 1000+)
R-2 Not So Common (501-1000)
R-3 Scarce (201-500)
R-4 Very Scarce (population est. at 76-200)
R-5 Rare (31-75)
R-6 Very Rare (13-30)
R-7 Extremely rare (4-12)
R-8 Unique or Nearly So (1, 2 or 3)
For most coins which are legitimately rare (i.e. R-5 or higher), reasonably good population data does exist and it is possible to be pretty precise.
In any case, I think looking to population data is more logical than focusing on how often one shows up in a public auction. >>
Is there a cap on R-1? Or can everything with a pop greater than 1000 be R-1?
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.