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The 1992/94 UD Mantle/Griffey Jr AUTO'd cards...
onefasttalon
Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭
I've seen 4 variations... one without either auto, one with just Mantle's, one with just Griffey's, and one with BOTH.
Were these randomly inserted in '92 UD packs? Low series, high series.. both? Jumbo packs too?
Or were these only obtainable in random factory sets?
Anybody know?
Were these randomly inserted in '92 UD packs? Low series, high series.. both? Jumbo packs too?
Or were these only obtainable in random factory sets?
Anybody know?
ALWAYS Looking for Chris Sabo cards!
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They were all inserts in Series 1 Retail packs.
Hope this helps!
Craig
ALWAYS Looking for Chris Sabo cards!
<< <i>Weren't even more of these sold by UDA several years after 1994? If so, how do you tell between those and the pack-inserted versions. >>
Why would that need to be known?
<< <i>Im not 100% certain about this but I had read that it was possibly a different hologram? Ive heard there was a way to tell which ones came from packs and which ones came through UDA. >>
Here is the back of mine that supposedly was pulled from a pack. I don't know if this is true or not.
2. These were inserts into 1994 Upper Deck series 1 retail, and later a limited amount of them were inserted as buybacks in Upper Deck Spectrum. These were never just cards you could buy through UDA. They are all pack pulled in one way or another, and all came with the hologram cert in the pack(even as buybacks), with the matching numbered sticker hologram on the back of the card. Alot people either lost the cert, or just did not think it was important and disgarded it.
3. I don't know about the comment about them being way down, the dual auto still sells for $750-$1000 everytime they hit online.
<< <i>11 double autos have been sold in the last 2 months. That seems like a lot considering there are only supposed to be 1,000 in existence. Compare that to only six of the 1991 UD Nolan Ryan /2500 autos that have been sold over the same time period and it seems reasonably obvious that there are more than 1,000 of them out there. >>
Nope, there was 1000 of each of the 3 versions produced, as stated by Upper Deck. You cannot compare what hits online, and peg a production rate.
<< <i>I said 11 of the double autos (Mantle and Griffey both signed). >>
Yeah, I know what you said. Still, there are only 1000 of them produced, confirmed by Upper Deck, and listed in Beckett price guide.
<< <i>1. The Mantle Griffey came as 3 different versions. 1 version signed by Mantle, 1 version signed by Griffey, and 1 version signed by both Mantle and Griffey. There is not an unsigned version of this card.
>>
There is an unsigned version. I saw 2 copies on a dealer's table at the 2000 National. [He wanted a substantial amount for them - $50 or $100, I think.] It was never pack-released (supposedly, there were just the extras kept on hand in case Griffey or Mantle had lost some of the cards they were supposed to sign), but some have found their way into the hobby. The famous Upper Deck back door strikes again.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
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Yes, they were re-released as buy backs a couple of years back.
I was under the impression that UDA had sold a few of these as well, but I don't know where that idea came from.
1991 UD Ryan auto /2500- 6 sold
1992 Donruss Ripken /5000- 8 sold
1992 Donruss Sandberg /5000- 4 sold
1990 UD Reggie /2500- 7 sold
1992 UD Marino /2800- 3 sold
1993 Leaf Frank Thomas /3500- 4 sold
These are cards with 2.5-5 times the supposed print run of 1,000 and the numbers are all significantly less.
I was saying there is not an unsigned version that was released to the public. While I am not saying you did not see one, they were not intended releases(if a few exists). As with anything, it's possible a back door sneak was done.
Either way, it's not a version that was inserted to be pulled from the packs, if there are a few out there.
<< <i>You can certainly take the number that have been sold (not offered, sold) over a period of time as an indicator of how many there are out there when you compare the number sold of other cards from the same era with similar demand. Compare the number sold of the Mantle/Griffey double auto to the number sold of ANY other inserted auto of that era and the numbers are totally out of whack. There is no way there are only 1,000 of this card available. Here are some numbers of sold cards over the last 2 months and you can draw your own conclusions:
1991 UD Ryan auto /2500- 6 sold
1992 Donruss Ripken /5000- 8 sold
1992 Donruss Sandberg /5000- 4 sold
1990 UD Reggie /2500- 7 sold
1992 UD Marino /2800- 3 sold
1993 Leaf Frank Thomas /3500- 4 sold
These are cards with 2.5-5 times the supposed print run of 1,000 and the numbers are all significantly less. >>
Lee,
Your thinking is not really on the money. There are 10,000 copies of each 1992 Donruss Elite of Thomas and Griffey, but they are maybe one or less a week listed. So, is this a rare card? No...
The Mantle Griffey dual commands some pretty big bucks, Griffey is inching up on 600 homeruns, and some folks have been trying to cash in by listing. It's obvious..
EDIT: spell
<< <i>If there are only 1,000, why aren't they hand numbered like the rest of UD autos from the early 90s? >>
Well, how about the Alex Rodriguez auto from that same year? They were not numbered, either. I am not Upper Deck, so I can't give you that answer. Honestly, no person on this forum can. Upper Deck done it their own way, and you can accept it or not. Not sure what else to say.
Even more follow up, the 1994 UD All-Time Heroes autos that included Mantle, George Brett, Reggie Jackson, Tom Seaver, ect were not individually numbered, either. They came with holograms and certs just like the Mantle Griffey cards. I guess Upper Deck dropped the ball for serial numbering that year. There are also 1000 signed copies of each card from the All-Time Heroes autos.
You seem to never be open to the possibility that you're wrong and it's really a frustrating for others to carry on any type of dialogue with you because you can't be wrong, even when it's proven within a reasonable doubt that you are.
<< <i>There's only one thing obvious to me and it's your lack of intelligence and overall stubbornness. All you do is strike up arguments and state things you believe as fact like you're some kind of sportscard guru that we should all listen to without questioning, such as this gem: There is not an unsigned version of this card.
You seem to never be open to the possibility that you're wrong and it's really a frustrating for others to carry on any type of dialogue with you because you can't be wrong, even when it's proven within a reasonable doubt that you are. >>
Well, Lee, I would not say you are the most intelligent person, either. Feelings are mutual.
I am just talking about cards, but if you want to go personal, do what you want. I can care less.
Don't like what I say, ignore my posts, and move on. I am here to talk cards, I may get it right, I may get it wrong, but I contribute to the forum just like you.
<< <i>...but I contribute to the forum just like you. >>
No, Lee doesn't make speculations and call them absolute fact.
<< <i>There's only one thing obvious to me and it's your lack of intelligence and overall stubbornness. All you do is strike up arguments and state things you believe as fact like you're some kind of sportscard guru that we should all listen to without questioning, such as this gem: There is not an unsigned version of this card.
You seem to never be open to the possibility that you're wrong and it's really a frustrating for others to carry on any type of dialogue with you because you can't be wrong, even when it's proven within a reasonable doubt that you are. >>
And my comments about there not being an unsigned version, take that up with Upper Deck. There is not an unsigned version that was released into packs, and Upper Deck stated that there were 3 versions as I stated, and they reported this to Beckett. It's in print, Lee.
Like I said, if they do exist, and it's possible some were backdoored at Upper Deck, they were never meant for public release. I did not mean it was not possible to have some slip out by less than honest means.
Am I ever wrong? Sure, but never heard you admit to being wrong, even when you are. Guess you don't like anyone challenging your set ideas.
<< <i>
<< <i>...but I contribute to the forum just like you. >>
No, Lee doesn't make speculations and call them absolute fact. >>
Hey, I give my opinions and thoughts, just like anyone who posts here. You don't like it, you can ignore it.
Not all of us who post here will be friends or like one another, but we have to learn to accept everyone as having their own points about the hobby.
No, that is not what you were saying. You clearly said there was no unsigned version and were proven wrong by at least two people that have seen them. Then you backpedal and say "I meant there weren't any inserted into packs." Most people in this case would've said something along the lines of "I guess I was wrong, sorry." Well, if you're wrong about that, then isn't there a chance you're wrong about there being 1,000 of these, or that UDA might've sold them or that UD might have backdoored some?
I'd be the first to admit I'm somewhat of an idiot, but I don't run around trying to pass information that I'm not sure of as fact. And if I'm wrong about something, I'm the first to say "Sorry, I was wrong." Those words don't seem to be in your vocabulary.
<< <i>There's only one thing obvious to me and it's your lack of intelligence and overall stubbornness. All you do is strike up arguments and state things you believe as fact like you're some kind of sportscard guru that we should all listen to without questioning, such as this gem: There is not an unsigned version of this card.
You seem to never be open to the possibility that you're wrong and it's really a frustrating for others to carry on any type of dialogue with you because you can't be wrong, even when it's proven within a reasonable doubt that you are. >>
And these comments comes from one of the hardest headed people I have seen post on this forum. You argue with your fair share, and have smart mouth comments towards others, everyday.
<< <i>I didn't mean for it to come out as a personal attack but I guess it is. What I'm trying to say is that it seems to me (and many others) that you tend to jump into threads and state things you believe as absolute fact, which is dangerous because a lot of other people come here for advice or information. When anyone refutes what you have to say, you don't consider the possibility that what you said could be wrong and you defend it to the death, or make some kind of qualifying statement such as: I was saying there is not an unsigned version that was released to the public. While I am not saying you did not see one, they were not intended releases(if a few exists). As with anything, it's possible a back door sneak was done.
No, that is not what you were saying. You clearly said there was no unsigned version and were proven wrong by at least two people that have seen them. Then you backpedal and say "I meant there weren't any inserted into packs." Well, if you're wrong about that, then isn't there a chance you're wrong about there being 1,000 of these, or that UDA might've sold them or that UD might have backdoored some?
I'd be the first to admit I'm somewhat of an idiot, but I don't run around trying to pass information that I'm not sure of as fact. And if I'm wrong about something, I'm the first to say "Sorry, I was wrong." Those words don't seem to be in your vocabulary. >>
Actually, you are a bit off base with your accusations. Yes, there are no unsigned versions that are considered part of this set. That is what I meant. Call Upper Deck or Beckett and see if they confirm this.
I have yet to see proof that there are some out there that were backdoored. I openly admitted that there are possibly some that got out. It's possible!
The Mantle Griffey have been confirmed by Upper Deck and listed in Beckett as being 1000 of each produced, and they were inserted into packs of 1994 Upper Deck series 1 retail, and a small amount as buybacks in Upper Deck Spectrum. This is fact, so do not try and make me into some idiot who is lying and misleading folks who read this forum. These are facts from Upper Deck, not my opinions or any speculation.
It would be like me saying there is not an unsigned version of the 2001 Bowman Chrome Pujols. Is that a true statement, or is it possible that a few were backdoored that were unsigned? Hmm...... we could go on that speculation and word twisting, too. Right?
You know what I meant, but somehow I feel you just want to twist word for word, and make my comments into something it was never intended to be.
Also, here's a thread from a few days ago where I admitted I was wrong and that I can be an idiot, so there ya go- Link
I'm open to the possibility that there are only 1,000 of them out there, but if I had to guess I would say UD kept some of these unsigned and had Mantle and Griffey sign them in the late 90s and sold them through the UDA store or out the back door. There probably were only 1,000 inserted into packs, but I think there were more sold years after the initial release.
Dear Lee,
Thank you for contacting us via email; unfortunately since the card was not a limited edition they never kept the numbers of cards that were made…
Take it for what its worth I guess.
<< <i>.........I would say UD kept some of these unsigned and had Mantle and Griffey sign them in the late 90s....... >>
Let's call that the early to mid 90's since the Mick died in 1995.
<< <i>Upper Deck was sleazy enough to keep his body frozen, stick a pen in his dead hand and have a forger move Mantle's hand and sign it for him. >>
I believe you Lee, and now that you have stated it on this forum, it is a fact for all to see and never dispute.
Just like the walter payton heros #'d out of 2800 i believe and the marino signed heros.
I remember seeing one on ebay a while back where the person included the receipt from UDA. It was a dual auto mantle/griffey
Specializing in Certified Autograph Cards, Rookies, Rare Inserts and other quality modern cards! Over 8000 Cards in stock now! Come visit our physical store located at 1210 Main St. Belmar ,NJ
<< <i>Fact: These were for sale through the upper deck company. I forgot what it was called but they had a catalogue UD authenticated?
Just like the walter payton heros #'d out of 2800 i believe and the marino signed heros.
I remember seeing one on ebay a while back where the person included the receipt from UDA. It was a dual auto mantle/griffey >>
Yep, I distinctly remember this as well. I always assumed that not all of the 1000 made it into packs or retailers returned unsold boxes/packs to UD and they pulled them out. That said, I am naive sometimes and that thought could have fallen into my naivity. I would not put all of my money on Beckett being right about the print run on this one.
Beckett does make mistakes. Regularly.
Personally, I don't think the market demand is based on the stated print run in Beckett.
And if it matters, I do have one...
<< <i>If UD did in fact insert 1,000 of them into packs in 1994, then that's the information Beckett will go on. The fact that they sold a bunch through their store above the 1,000 that were already inserted may not inspire Beckett to change their info on the card. >>
...and how many of the Mantle signed ones did people get Griffey to sign after the fact? Considering the cards were basically the same with the only difference being the signatures on the front, there could have been plenty of those "upgraded" over the years.
<< <i>No Roger, that's impossible. StanTheMan cannot be wrong about this. You must be misremembering. >>
Or I could be a sarcastic stooge like Lee, huh?
I have not seen any proof to say anyone is right or wrong, just a couple of people who think they saw something, or cannot exactly recall what they seen for sure. Right?
As an Upper Deck rep once told me, they never put all the print run in the packs, and they do save some for replacements, if people should pull a damaged card from a pack, box, or case. It is entirely possible that some left overs were sold by Upper Deck, but it does not mean that there was more than the 1000 print run, as they told Beckett back in the day, when they published it in their magazine.
Heck, for me it does not really matter anymore, they sell well, and are great cards. As with any card ever produced, you either choose to believe the print runs the company discloses, or you don't. To each their own, on deciding what they want to believe. I based my comments from what Upper Deck disclosed to Beckett. If that info provided to Beckett is wrong, or Upper Deck done some other shady dealings, so be it.
<< <i>Wow, it must be incredible to live in your world. >>
Even better to live in yours, right?
Just like the walter payton heros #'d out of 2800 i believe and the marino signed heros.
I remember seeing one on ebay a while back where the person included the receipt from UDA. It was a dual auto mantle/griffey "
Here's your response: "I have not seen any proof to say anyone is right or wrong, just a couple of people who think they saw something, or cannot exactly recall what they seen for sure. Right? "
What exactly do you want as proof? A copy of the UDA catalogue from 1998? A guy who has no reason to lie comes on and states that it is a fact that they were sold by UD and that he distinctly remembers an auction with a scan of the receipt from UDA. You're not going to get more than that, yet for some reason you refuse to believe that Upper Deck sold them. If Roger told you he bought one from UDA himself would you believe him? Not sure what you're looking for here, but it's clear to everybody but you that you're wrong, and like I mentioned in my first post about you- you refuse to admit it.