<< <i>Here's what Roger wrote: "Fact: These were for sale through the upper deck company. I forgot what it was called but they had a catalogue UD authenticated? Just like the walter payton heros #'d out of 2800 i believe and the marino signed heros.
I remember seeing one on ebay a while back where the person included the receipt from UDA. It was a dual auto mantle/griffey "
Here's your response: "I have not seen any proof to say anyone is right or wrong, just a couple of people who think they saw something, or cannot exactly recall what they seen for sure. Right? "
What exactly do you want as proof? A copy of the UDA catalogue from 1998? A guy who has no reason to lie comes on and states that it is a fact that they were sold by UD and that he distinctly remembers an auction with a scan of the receipt from UDA. You're not going to get more than that, yet for some reason you refuse to believe that Upper Deck sold them. If Roger told you he bought one from UDA himself would you believe him? Not sure what you're looking for here, but it's clear to everybody but you that you're wrong, and like I mentioned in my first post about you- you refuse to admit it. >>
Glad you can speak for everyone.
I do not refuse to believe Upper Deck sold them. I am open to that being possible. Can't you read?
What I am saying is that you notion about the print run is something I disagree with.
When you can prove I am wrong on that theory you laid out, bring it here, and I will say I got it wrong.
Let's face it, you do not like me, and this just gives you a chance to pick. The feelings are mutual, let me tell ya.
OK, I guess I'll have to buy 1,001 and one of them, because that's the only way to prove that there were more than 1,000 printed. Again, not sure what you're looking for in terms of proof because there will never be any concrete proof that will prove your opinion wrong. just like there will never be conrete proof that OJ killed Nicole and Ron or that Clemens was a juicer. If I had a 10 year old's intellect I would come back and say that you can't prove there are only a thousand of them, but I'm smart enough to know that that argument holds no ground because it's difficult to prove things in this world, but you can certainly use logic and deduction to make fair assumptions.
Not that any of this has to do with my original point: you repeatedly pass your opinion off as fact which is not a great way to carry yourself. Furthermore, you become argumentative when someone disputes your "facts" which is just funny to me.
Lee, as I said, if you do not like my opinions, please feel free move on. They are not facts, they are my opinions. Some will agree, others will disagree, and you will try to come personal insults. And you talk about 10 year olds?
Everyone who posts here has opinions. Some are the same, some are different. I have learned that only a few on here feel the need to come with personal insults when others disagree with them. You are one of those select few.
With that being said, we can all have different views and just decide to agree to disagree. That is my situation with you. Please, let's put this to rest, and move onto something else.
I'm just going to say this and drop it. When you come on and post the following:
"1. The Mantle Griffey came as 3 different versions. 1 version signed by Mantle, 1 version signed by Griffey, and 1 version signed by both Mantle and Griffey. There is not an unsigned version of this card.
2. These were inserts into 1994 Upper Deck series 1 retail, and later a limited amount of them were inserted as buybacks in Upper Deck Spectrum. These were never just cards you could buy through UDA. They are all pack pulled in one way or another, and all came with the hologram cert in the pack(even as buybacks), with the matching numbered sticker hologram on the back of the card. Alot people either lost the cert, or just did not think it was important and disgarded it.
3. I don't know about the comment about them being way down, the dual auto still sells for $750-$1000 everytime they hit online."
This sounds like you are stating these things as fact because you know them to be true. This is misleading to people because you, in fact, really don't know these things to be true. You think them to be true, but don't know. After this overly lengthy argument you are now representing them as your opinions, but in your initial post one would likely assume you know what you're talking about because you state them so absolutely. The fact that two of your statements have now been shown to be likely false (no unsigned versions, not sold through UDA) apparently doesn't register in your mind at all.
I disagree with lots of people on these boards and some I consider friends, but when people come on and state misinformation then argue to the death that it's true, it bugs me. I admit it. it's a fault of mine and I can't let it go. But if I'm searching the net for info on something and end up going on false information, it pisses me off. If I read a convincing restaurant review that the food is great and I go there and it sucks, I get pissed off. It's more than me not liking you. I've never met you. If you were my neighbor we might be friends.
That's all I'm going to say because I don't want you or anybody else to feel I hate or target specific people. You have as much a right to post on these boards as I do. Just be more careful about how you state your opinions because others might not take them as opinion.
<< <i>I'm just going to say this and drop it. When you come on and post the following:
"1. The Mantle Griffey came as 3 different versions. 1 version signed by Mantle, 1 version signed by Griffey, and 1 version signed by both Mantle and Griffey. There is not an unsigned version of this card.
2. These were inserts into 1994 Upper Deck series 1 retail, and later a limited amount of them were inserted as buybacks in Upper Deck Spectrum. These were never just cards you could buy through UDA. They are all pack pulled in one way or another, and all came with the hologram cert in the pack(even as buybacks), with the matching numbered sticker hologram on the back of the card. Alot people either lost the cert, or just did not think it was important and disgarded it.
3. I don't know about the comment about them being way down, the dual auto still sells for $750-$1000 everytime they hit online."
This sounds like you are stating these things as fact because you know them to be true. This is misleading to people because you, in fact, really don't know these things to be true. You think them to be true, but don't know. After this overly lengthy argument you are now representing them as your opinions, but in your initial post one would likely assume you know what you're talking about because you state them so absolutely. The fact that two of your statements have now been shown to be likely false (no unsigned versions, not sold through UDA) apparently doesn't register in your mind at all.
I disagree with lots of people on these boards and some I consider friends, but when people come on and state misinformation then argue to the death that it's true, it bugs me. I admit it. it's a fault of mine and I can't let it go. But if I'm searching the net for info on something and end up going on false information, it pisses me off. If I read a convincing restaurant review that the food is great and I go there and it sucks, I get pissed off. It's more than me not liking you. I've never met you. If you were my neighbor we might be friends.
That's all I'm going to say because I don't want you or anybody else to feel I hate or target specific people. You have as much a right to post on these boards as I do. Just be more careful about how you state your opinions because others might not take them as opinion.
Lee >>
Lee,
Fine, I accept we all have faults. I know I have them too. But, it's funny to call me out on something that can be manipulated by all the card companies. You know what I was meaning, and there was nothing I said that would hurt anyone if they went online to buy a dual Mantle Griffey auto card.
True, I stand by there are no unsigned versions, if you look up the info we have at hand, per Beckett, on their checklist. This is the facts that Upper Deck released to Beckett, right? Not my trying to mislead anyone. But....... like we have all agreed, Upper Deck has been less than honest on some stuff slipping out in the past. I concede that it's possible that some unsigned ones that were never intended to be released to the public, could have been slipped out the back door.
What I stated is what I believe to be true, based on all the facts that I dug up from hard print in Beckett. It does not say anything about they being sold by UDA in a catalog, it says they were inserted into packs of 1994 series 1 retail, and this past year of Upper Deck Spectrum.
If I told you there are not any 2001 Bowman Chrome Pujols cards that were unsigned, would you say that is true? All are signed, right? Am I lying on that? Or could it be possible that some were slipped out the back door of Topps that are unsigned, maybe sitting in some Topps Executive's personal stash? See what I am saying?
Point is, all we have to go on is what they tell us. That is what I am going by. If it's wrong, then what are we to believe anymore?
I call truce with you, and if nothing else, we had a heated discussion. No hard feelings, anymore.
Fair enough. I guess I overreacted. No need to harbor any bad feelings between us when there are trimmers, resealers, and guys selling laminated photocopies of cards out there. I apologize for my heated response.
<< <i>Fair enough. I guess I overreacted. No need to harbor any bad feelings between us when there are trimmers, resealers, and guys selling laminated photocopies of cards out there. I apologize for my heated response. >>
Apology accepted, and I apologize for where I failed, too.
Comments
<< <i>Here's what Roger wrote: "Fact: These were for sale through the upper deck company. I forgot what it was called but they had a catalogue UD authenticated?
Just like the walter payton heros #'d out of 2800 i believe and the marino signed heros.
I remember seeing one on ebay a while back where the person included the receipt from UDA. It was a dual auto mantle/griffey "
Here's your response: "I have not seen any proof to say anyone is right or wrong, just a couple of people who think they saw something, or cannot exactly recall what they seen for sure. Right? "
What exactly do you want as proof? A copy of the UDA catalogue from 1998? A guy who has no reason to lie comes on and states that it is a fact that they were sold by UD and that he distinctly remembers an auction with a scan of the receipt from UDA. You're not going to get more than that, yet for some reason you refuse to believe that Upper Deck sold them. If Roger told you he bought one from UDA himself would you believe him? Not sure what you're looking for here, but it's clear to everybody but you that you're wrong, and like I mentioned in my first post about you- you refuse to admit it. >>
Glad you can speak for everyone.
I do not refuse to believe Upper Deck sold them. I am open to that being possible. Can't you read?
What I am saying is that you notion about the print run is something I disagree with.
When you can prove I am wrong on that theory you laid out, bring it here, and I will say I got it wrong.
Let's face it, you do not like me, and this just gives you a chance to pick. The feelings are mutual, let me tell ya.
Not that any of this has to do with my original point: you repeatedly pass your opinion off as fact which is not a great way to carry yourself. Furthermore, you become argumentative when someone disputes your "facts" which is just funny to me.
Everyone who posts here has opinions. Some are the same, some are different. I have learned that only a few on here feel the need to come with personal insults when others disagree with them. You are one of those select few.
With that being said, we can all have different views and just decide to agree to disagree. That is my situation with you. Please, let's put this to rest, and move onto something else.
"1. The Mantle Griffey came as 3 different versions. 1 version signed by Mantle, 1 version signed by Griffey, and 1 version signed by both Mantle and Griffey. There is not an unsigned version of this card.
2. These were inserts into 1994 Upper Deck series 1 retail, and later a limited amount of them were inserted as buybacks in Upper Deck Spectrum. These were never just cards you could buy through UDA. They are all pack pulled in one way or another, and all came with the hologram cert in the pack(even as buybacks), with the matching numbered sticker hologram on the back of the card. Alot people either lost the cert, or just did not think it was important and disgarded it.
3. I don't know about the comment about them being way down, the dual auto still sells for $750-$1000 everytime they hit online."
This sounds like you are stating these things as fact because you know them to be true. This is misleading to people because you, in fact, really don't know these things to be true. You think them to be true, but don't know. After this overly lengthy argument you are now representing them as your opinions, but in your initial post one would likely assume you know what you're talking about because you state them so absolutely. The fact that two of your statements have now been shown to be likely false (no unsigned versions, not sold through UDA) apparently doesn't register in your mind at all.
I disagree with lots of people on these boards and some I consider friends, but when people come on and state misinformation then argue to the death that it's true, it bugs me. I admit it. it's a fault of mine and I can't let it go. But if I'm searching the net for info on something and end up going on false information, it pisses me off. If I read a convincing restaurant review that the food is great and I go there and it sucks, I get pissed off. It's more than me not liking you. I've never met you. If you were my neighbor we might be friends.
That's all I'm going to say because I don't want you or anybody else to feel I hate or target specific people. You have as much a right to post on these boards as I do. Just be more careful about how you state your opinions because others might not take them as opinion.
Lee
<< <i>I'm just going to say this and drop it. When you come on and post the following:
"1. The Mantle Griffey came as 3 different versions. 1 version signed by Mantle, 1 version signed by Griffey, and 1 version signed by both Mantle and Griffey. There is not an unsigned version of this card.
2. These were inserts into 1994 Upper Deck series 1 retail, and later a limited amount of them were inserted as buybacks in Upper Deck Spectrum. These were never just cards you could buy through UDA. They are all pack pulled in one way or another, and all came with the hologram cert in the pack(even as buybacks), with the matching numbered sticker hologram on the back of the card. Alot people either lost the cert, or just did not think it was important and disgarded it.
3. I don't know about the comment about them being way down, the dual auto still sells for $750-$1000 everytime they hit online."
This sounds like you are stating these things as fact because you know them to be true. This is misleading to people because you, in fact, really don't know these things to be true. You think them to be true, but don't know. After this overly lengthy argument you are now representing them as your opinions, but in your initial post one would likely assume you know what you're talking about because you state them so absolutely. The fact that two of your statements have now been shown to be likely false (no unsigned versions, not sold through UDA) apparently doesn't register in your mind at all.
I disagree with lots of people on these boards and some I consider friends, but when people come on and state misinformation then argue to the death that it's true, it bugs me. I admit it. it's a fault of mine and I can't let it go. But if I'm searching the net for info on something and end up going on false information, it pisses me off. If I read a convincing restaurant review that the food is great and I go there and it sucks, I get pissed off. It's more than me not liking you. I've never met you. If you were my neighbor we might be friends.
That's all I'm going to say because I don't want you or anybody else to feel I hate or target specific people. You have as much a right to post on these boards as I do. Just be more careful about how you state your opinions because others might not take them as opinion.
Lee >>
Lee,
Fine, I accept we all have faults. I know I have them too. But, it's funny to call me out on something that can be manipulated by all the card companies. You know what I was meaning, and there was nothing I said that would hurt anyone if they went online to buy a dual Mantle Griffey auto card.
True, I stand by there are no unsigned versions, if you look up the info we have at hand, per Beckett, on their checklist. This is the facts that Upper Deck released to Beckett, right? Not my trying to mislead anyone. But....... like we have all agreed, Upper Deck has been less than honest on some stuff slipping out in the past. I concede that it's possible that some unsigned ones that were never intended to be released to the public, could have been slipped out the back door.
What I stated is what I believe to be true, based on all the facts that I dug up from hard print in Beckett. It does not say anything about they being sold by UDA in a catalog, it says they were inserted into packs of 1994 series 1 retail, and this past year of Upper Deck Spectrum.
If I told you there are not any 2001 Bowman Chrome Pujols cards that were unsigned, would you say that is true? All are signed, right? Am I lying on that? Or could it be possible that some were slipped out the back door of Topps that are unsigned, maybe sitting in some Topps Executive's personal stash? See what I am saying?
Point is, all we have to go on is what they tell us. That is what I am going by. If it's wrong, then what are we to believe anymore?
I call truce with you, and if nothing else, we had a heated discussion. No hard feelings, anymore.
<< <i>Fair enough. I guess I overreacted. No need to harbor any bad feelings between us when there are trimmers, resealers, and guys selling laminated photocopies of cards out there. I apologize for my heated response. >>
Apology accepted, and I apologize for where I failed, too.
Take care, Lee.
I think that is a really cool card !