Poll - Returning a lot of items to the mint - Is it good or bad for the hobby?

jessewvu · April 20, 2008 11:01AM

I have always wondered why some members here are against people buying a lot of items from the US Mint and sending a lot of them back after they have been looked over. I am interested to hear from both camps on this practice.

Please post if you have an opinion.

Griv · April 20, 2008 11:17AM

The Mint charges a premium on their "products" and they are making a huge profit so I don't think the Mint cares one way or another. Do collectors? It's no different from cherry picking at a coin show since the Mint ships sight unseen. If they supplied pictures of the exact coin you were buying I might feel differently. Why buy a proof coin that is obvious PR68 and get stuck with it when the Mint charges a mint and allows returns? IMO

TomB · April 20, 2008 12:14PM

I don't see anything wrong with it since you are working within the parameters set by the US Mint.

JCMhouston · April 20, 2008 12:34PM

<< I don't see anything wrong with it since you are working within the parameters set by the US Mint. >>

It's really a matter of people trying to take advantage of the system. It's based on the average buyer being honest and paying for what they buy, not set up for people to order dozens or hundreds of sets so they can find one high grade coin then send all the rest back. If a set is defective I have no problem, send it back. Doing it just to try to find one great coin, then returning all the rest is dishonest in my opinion. Sorry I can't explain why, but, then again I wish I didn't have too. It's sort of like buying an expensive pair of shoes to wear to an event, with the intention of returning them after the event, the intention is what counts, and that's just dishonest, go rent some shoes.

For the one great coin you want, go to a dealer, or a show, and paw through all the sets to find what you want. But please don't waste the mints time, and my tax dollars, ordering sets you have no intention of keeping unless they have one great coin in them.

I really am not picking on anyone in particular and don't mean to offend anyone, this seems to be the American way now. Never the less. I feel obligated to mention that any normal sense of honesty would recognize this as wrong.

fishcooker · April 20, 2008 1:22PM

Few people collect items rejected by others.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · April 20, 2008 1:26PM

I have no problems with it if it involves the quality of the pieces, however if someone buys items with intent to flip them, but then the secondary market prices do not move in their favor and they decide to return the items to the Mint for that reason, I find that bothersome.

Griv · April 20, 2008 1:48PM

<< Few people collect items rejected by others. >>

What a joke. Every single coin collected that has been in circulation was rejected by someone. Probably many times over.

If you think it is wrong to buy coins from the Mint only to cherry pick the 70s then I would suggest that you NEVER cherry pick a coin from a dealer. Cherry picking the Gov/Mint is a lot better than screwing your fruit of the earth coin dealer. Get your priorities right. If you still have issues then write the Mint and tell them. The Mint charges a premium, allows a 30 day return and still makes a butt load of profit.

Tell me again why this is some sin.

garsmith · April 21, 2008 12:01AM

If you paid for a premium product, you should recieve a premium product.

If you let them get away with shipping crap they will just send more and more crap!

curly · April 21, 2008 12:05AM

Brothers, I voted that I don't care either way. And I don't.

ricko · April 21, 2008 12:39AM

I have only had to return one product from the mint... an obviously scratched ASE....and received a perfect replacement very quickly. Cheers, RickO

thezookrew · April 21, 2008 1:12AM

I think if you get a premium product (read a 68 - 70 graded coin) then you should not be returning it to get an absolutely perfect coin. I also think that those that order multiple sets with the absolute intention of going through them to return anything but a perfect coin is doing a major disservice by increasing the costs to those that are ordering solely to collect coins. Scratches, defects, hazing, milk spots - there are a bunch of reasons to honestly return a coin, but if you are doing it for greed, then thanks for increasing the cost for everyone elses purchases.

Perry

pauljuno · April 21, 2008 1:18AM

I think that if there is something obviously wrong then no, send it back. If the problem is that the TPG didn't give you an MS70/PF70 and you want to send it back, then you're bad for the hobby.

Whitby · April 21, 2008 1:20AM

<< I think that if there is something obviously wrong then no, send it back. If the problem is that the TPG didn't give you an MS70/PF70 and you want to send it back, then you're bad for the hobby. >>

AMEN

ttown · April 21, 2008 1:23AM

Seems to me these folks are why the mints having to charge more for there products and I think those doing this should be stopped it's cost us all so it's not harmless as some would have you believe.

In MOST cases these aren't reject coins but those 70 hunting. This site should be for collectors and not wantabe Ebay dealers, maybe they need their own site and rules of engagement. That's the reason we now have limits IMO to stop those ordering 100 sets and sending back the bulk of them.

Zoins · April 21, 2008 1:29AM

Seems like some people are really defensive about this. I guess they must spend their time generating extra costs for the Mint through mass returns.

Some 70 hunters will sell the 69s and lower grades.

Others will return them to the Mint en masse.

It seems like returning coins to the Mint may raise prices for everyone but selling the coins would not.

cladking · April 21, 2008 1:40AM

I see no problem with it if they are keeping 80% or more and no problem
if it's a once in a while thing. You don't really know the quality of a product
till you see it and if it fails to meet expectations then it should be returned
for the good of the hobby and the mint.

I have a problem with the mint allowing people to buy large quantities and
then ship back most of them. This is cherry picking and is expensive to the
mint and unfair to the customers who recieve the picked over sets as well
as those who don't.

I don't know that this is occurring or that the coins are reshipped. Most com-
panies will reship returned product if it meets their standards though.

messydesk · April 21, 2008 2:57AM

Excessive returns by people whose living is based on "making 70s" will only raise prices in the long term, as they are causing the mint to incur a much larger cost per item that stays sold. A normal business would be able to detect this abuse and target it with more stringent return policies. Another way of handling this would be to put a small nick on the edge of every coin big enough to lower a potential 70 to a 69, but not big enough to lower a 69 to 68. People who want to actually collect the offerings wouldn't care.

Bochiman · April 21, 2008 4:58AM

Taking out the obvious returns for bad/damaged items, I fail to see where it would be "good" for the hobby....???

Good for flippers, yes.
Good for those gaming the system, yes.

Good for the hobby????? I don't see it.

Someone buys 100s of an item because "it should be HOT!". So, mintages go up, fever happens, some who want it for their actual collections don't get in in time to get from the mint (for whatever reason) and now have to pay more than mint issue price. Mint issues a "sell-out" in hours/days. Prices go up....then head down. Flippers receiver their 100s of the item. Prices have leveled off....low.

Flippers wait 30, then return to the mint. Mint has to reprocess. Some people may get them, some may not. True collectors may have already had to buy at inflated prices. They get disgusted. Maybe this, and other things, all add up, and they leave the hobby. They certainly get soured...just read the letters to the editor in any of the coin mags.

So, tell me, with just the 1 example above, how could anyone think it was "good" for the hobby?

MilesWaits · April 21, 2008 5:26AM

Good or Bad for the hobby appears irrelevent.
The Mint allows it; the collectors/flippers will use it.
The shoulds, musts and have to's do not change the simple issue.
I can speed so I will speed. My choice. Oh well.

Miles

messydesk · April 21, 2008 5:35AM

<< Good or Bad for the hobby appears irrelevent.
The Mint allows it; the collectors/flippers will use it.
The shoulds, musts and have to's do not change the simple issue.
I can speed so I will speed. My choice. Oh well.

Miles >>

In other words, "So What?"

BECOKA · April 21, 2008 5:38AM

No problems here.

Coinhog · April 22, 2008 1:38AM

I don't think there is anything wrong with it as long as you don't start some innane post here on the forum whining and crying about how long it takes for the mint to refund your money.

ziggy29 · April 22, 2008 1:41AM

I don't care if people return stuff to the mint. What I hate is when people order the limit, yet only intending to "cherry" a couple of them and return the rest -- not only forcing a quick sellout but also meaning that those who may get "backorders" filled later are likely to get inferior merchandise.

aficionado · April 22, 2008 1:58AM

At today's prices, return away !!!

I'm NOT paying $600 + for a coin that has black marks, dirt, scratches, etc all over it. No way.

I'm more lenient with the Silver and lower cost items, but not when I'm spending big money.

jmski52 · April 22, 2008 2:35AM

I'm NOT paying $600 + for a coin that has black marks, dirt, scratches, etc all over it. No way.

Due to cash flow considerations, I didn't order my 2007 Burnished Plats right away, and when I did order I got about what aficionado describes above.

I returned two successive sets, and finally kept the third even though it was no better. The Mint probably kept shipping me some of the OP's rejects, and I've concluded that I would have been better off buying graded coins than ordering late from the Mint.

This year, I will have no compunction about ordering multiple extra sets and returning the ones that don't pass muster. Frankly, I think that this situation is bad for the hobby and that the Mint should severely limit returns.

Griv · April 22, 2008 10:23AM

<< I'm NOT paying $600 + for a coin that has black marks, dirt, scratches, etc all over it. No way.

Due to cash flow considerations, I didn't order my 2007 Burnished Plats right away, and when I did order I got about what aficionado describes above.

I returned two successive sets, and finally kept the third even though it was no better. The Mint probably kept shipping me some of the OP's rejects, and I've concluded that I would have been better off buying graded coins than ordering late from the Mint.

This year, I will have no compunction about ordering multiple extra sets and returning the ones that don't pass muster. Frankly, I think that this situation is bad for the hobby and that the Mint should severely limit returns. >>

I agree. I think this is one of the reason there are so many 70 in the post 2005 market. Too many people figured out how to work the Mint and this is the result of it. The problem is that the Mint is making a huge profit and they could care less about collectors and how it affects any particular series. We should count our blessings that they are so inept that we continue to have errors that keep some excitement in the new coins.

Poll - Returning a lot of items to the mint - Is it good or bad for the hobby?

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