Another CSNS Show Report

speety · April 18, 2008 8:10AM

I just got back from the bourse and i'm tired! I'll be going back tomorrow morning to pick up an auction win and chat with a few dealers before heading home.

Overall the show was average, maybe a little below, for a CSNS show. The room was huge but half empty, giving the allusion of a bad dealer turnout until 4 hours later you realize you have only been to half of the tables. The big-name dealers and auction houses were located as soon as you walked in, I for one did not like this as these are the tables that have no coins in their cases and tend to be less friendly for the most part. Nothing like starting off a show with a bunch of blank cases....

By about the 400 row the tables picked up. We located a stunning proof 1885 liberty nickel at harry laibsteins table and picked that up. Next we stopped by Wayne Herndon's table and made our greatest find (imo) for the entire show. An 1988 Prestiege set with no cloudiness on the dollar coin. It must have taken 100+ sets to find one, if you don't believe me, try to find one for yourself. Needless to say we picked it up at their outrageous (

) asking price of $27.50! It was well worth it and ended up being our last purchase of the show.

My main objectives today were to find a well-struck 1883 No Cents liberty nickel in MS-64/5 (you know the common one), seated dollars in AU that we were missing, and the Wiley-Bugert half dollar book. Well I struck out. There was not a single fully struck 1883 N/C nickel on the floor, i'm starting to doubt that they exist. Also, i failed in finding a seated dollar for our set, but we did pick one up during the Queller auction (more details and my pics will be up later), and the Wiley-Bugert book was nowhere to be seen.

I was finally able to meet a few people from the forum and talk to some dealers. Ed and Lance Hipps were nice as always, the guys at CCU were fun to talk to, TMOT was very courteous and had an interesting product to sell, and I saw Joe O'connor and Foodood but they were busy so I looked at their eye candy and slid by.

On a side note, dealers don't be fooled by someones age. Once again I, who just turned 18, got a snooty response from a dealer when I asked to see an 1841 AU-58 seated dollar. The dealer, at Lenny Bird's table, just replied with 'It's $2,800' twice when I asked to see the coin and didn't move a muscle to open the case. Now $2,800 isn't pocket change but when someone asks to see the coin you allow them to see the coin -- I certaintly could have dropped $2,800 on the coin if i thought it was nice, but because of his BS attitude he lost a potential customer for good.

That's my first real show report, how'd I do? Any suggestions for further ones would be great!

Mark

Elcontador · April 18, 2008 8:18AM

The N/C Nickel is as common as dirt in grades through MS 65 and isn't difficult to find in MS 66. I don't recall if the strike on this coin is better / worse than the others, but remember one thing. On almost all business strike Liberty Nickels, star 7 (oberverse) is softly struck and lt. ear of corn (reverse) is either missing detail (or often, doesn't have any detail at all). I am surprised that you didn't find one that met your specs.

speety · April 18, 2008 8:25AM

<< The N/C Nickel is as common as dirt in grades through MS 65 and isn't difficult to find in MS 66. I don't recall if the strike on this coin is better / worse than the others, but remember one thing. On almost all business strike Liberty Nickels, star 7 (oberverse) is softly struck and lt. ear of corn (reverse) is either missing detail (or often, doesn't have any detail at all). I am surprised that you didn't find one that met your specs. >>

Bingo! The obverse is often found fully struck, but the left corn is (almost) always a blob. We already have an MS-64 that is very well struck, so we are being extremely picky on our upgrade/duplicate (it is one of the very few dates that we don't have two of already, i love this series!).

percyb · April 18, 2008 8:28AM

<< I just got back from the bourse and i'm tired! I'll be going back tomorrow morning to pick up an auction win and chat with a few dealers before heading home.

Overall the show was average, maybe a little below, for a CSNS show. The room was huge but half empty, giving the allusion of a bad dealer turnout until 4 hours later you realize you have only been to half of the tables. The big-name dealers and auction houses were located as soon as you walked in, I for one did not like this as these are the tables that have no coins in their cases and tend to be less friendly for the most part. Nothing like starting off a show with a bunch of blank cases....

By about the 400 row the tables picked up. We located a stunning proof 1885 liberty nickel at harry laibsteins table and picked that up. Next we stopped by Wayne Herndon's table and made our greatest find (imo) for the entire show. An 1988 Prestiege set with no cloudiness on the dollar coin. It must have taken 100+ sets to find one, if you don't believe me, try to find one for yourself. Needless to say we picked it up at their outrageous (

) asking price of $27.50! It was well worth it and ended up being our last purchase of the show.

My main objectives today were to find a well-struck 1883 No Cents liberty nickel in MS-64/5 (you know the common one), seated dollars in AU that we were missing, and the Wiley-Bugert half dollar book. Well I struck out. There was not a single fully struck 1883 N/C nickel on the floor, i'm starting to doubt that they exist. Also, i failed in finding a seated dollar for our set, but we did pick one up during the Queller auction (more details and my pics will be up later), and the Wiley-Bugert book was nowhere to be seen.

I was finally able to meet a few people from the forum and talk to some dealers. Ed and Lance Hipps were nice as always, the guys at CCU were fun to talk to, TMOT was very courteous and had an interesting product to sell, and I saw Joe O'connor and Foodood but they were busy so I looked at their eye candy and slid by.

On a side note, dealers don't be fooled by someones age. Once again I, who just turned 18, got a snooty response from a dealer when I asked to see an 1841 AU-58 seated dollar. The dealer, Lenny Bird, just replied with 'It's $2,800' twice when I asked to see the coin and didn't move a muscle to open the case. Now $2,800 isn't pocket change but when someone asks to see the coin you allow them to see the coin -- I certaintly could have dropped $2,800 on the coin if i thought it was nice, but because of his BS attitude he lost a potential customer for good.

That's my first real show report, how'd I do? Any suggestions for further ones would be great!

Mark >>

I had a wonderful response from the same dealer. Since I live in the area, I asked him where his shop was located. He wouldn't tell me. Howz that for a friendly how do you do. WTF? I agree. The bourse seemed somewhat sparse, but not too bad. I saw most of the action at the Currency tables though, to be quite honest. Picked up an 1864 3 center amd a 1883 nickle along with an Abe Lincoln Chicago Exposition ticket. I really wanted to buy an SBA 1979 S type 2...but the friggin price the dealer wanted for an ANAC 66 ($220) was twice the price I could pay on the bay for an NGC 69. I'm not kidding. See the evidence. I wonder how these folks stay in business.
EBAYSBAIWANTEDBUTDIDNT220ATBOURSE

Walkerguy21D · April 18, 2008 8:36AM

Nice report. I'm glad you also enjoy talking to and dealing with Ed and Lance Hipps - they're good folks. I don't know this Lenny Bird fellow, but I think that's probably a good thing...

CaptHenway · April 18, 2008 8:41AM

Cut Lenny some slack. He's had a rough week.
Earlier this week the police arrested the @#$%^&*( who shot Lenny's son dead during an attempted robbery at Lenny's house about a year ago.

speety · April 18, 2008 8:46AM

<< Cut Lenny some slack. He's had a rough week.
Earlier this week the police arrested the @#$%^&*( who shot Lenny's son dead during an attempted robbery at Lenny's house about a year ago. >>

Do you know lenny personally? I ask this because IIRC the person who was a Jerk at his table didn't have Lenny Bird on his name tag. Perhaps someone else was working his table for this show? I was just in awe that a dealer would have that kind of reaction to a potential customer.

Mark

BlindedByEgo · April 18, 2008 8:47AM

<< Cut Lenny some slack. He's had a rough week.
Earlier this week the police arrested the @#$%^&*( who shot Lenny's son dead during an attempted robbery at Lenny's house about a year ago. >>

I was going tho mention that he had been through a lot, and maybe that we should not pile on too quick.

For those who don't remember, there is this.

I'm glad to hear that they caught the $%^$ suspects.

bestday · April 18, 2008 8:47AM

<< Cut Lenny some slack. He's had a rough week.
Earlier this week the police arrested the @#$%^&*( who shot Lenny's son dead during an attempted robbery at Lenny's house about a year ago. >>

Yes indeed ..he has been quoted in the Chicago newspapers saying he wishes he never got in the coin business..because it cost him his son .Say a PRAYER FOR BOTH

BlindedByEgo · April 18, 2008 8:49AM

<< 

<< Cut Lenny some slack. He's had a rough week.
Earlier this week the police arrested the @#$%^&*( who shot Lenny's son dead during an attempted robbery at Lenny's house about a year ago. >>

Do you know lenny personally? I ask this because IIRC the person who was a Jerk at his table didn't have Lenny Bird on his name tag. Perhaps someone else was working his table for this show? I was just in awe that a dealer would have that kind of reaction to a potential customer.

Mark >>

In that case, let's string the bastidge up!

I hope that you don't have to experience that kind of behaviour too often - it really sucks.

CaptHenway · April 18, 2008 8:51AM

<< 

<< Cut Lenny some slack. He's had a rough week.
Earlier this week the police arrested the @#$%^&*( who shot Lenny's son dead during an attempted robbery at Lenny's house about a year ago. >>

Do you know lenny personally? I ask this because IIRC the person who was a Jerk at his table didn't have Lenny Bird on his name tag. Perhaps someone else was working his table for this show? I was just in awe that a dealer would have that kind of reaction to a potential customer.

Mark >>

Big, heavy-set guy, balding with a dark fringe of hair slicked back.
I merely assumed that anybody who would badmouth somebody by name would know who it was they are talking about.

percyb · April 18, 2008 8:52AM

I did cut him slack otherwise he would have caught my mad Irish wrath.

speety · April 18, 2008 8:53AM

<< 

<< 

<< Cut Lenny some slack. He's had a rough week.
Earlier this week the police arrested the @#$%^&*( who shot Lenny's son dead during an attempted robbery at Lenny's house about a year ago. >>

Do you know lenny personally? I ask this because IIRC the person who was a Jerk at his table didn't have Lenny Bird on his name tag. Perhaps someone else was working his table for this show? I was just in awe that a dealer would have that kind of reaction to a potential customer.

Mark >>

Big, heavy-set guy, balding with a dark fringe of hair slicked back.
I merely assumed that anybody who would badmouth somebody by name would know who it was they are talking about. >>

Sounds like the guy i saw, maybe it was just the outside circumstances. Is he usually a pretty nice guy?

BlindedByEgo · April 18, 2008 9:03AM

<< 

<< 

<< Cut Lenny some slack. He's had a rough week.
Earlier this week the police arrested the @#$%^&*( who shot Lenny's son dead during an attempted robbery at Lenny's house about a year ago. >>

Do you know lenny personally? I ask this because IIRC the person who was a Jerk at his table didn't have Lenny Bird on his name tag. Perhaps someone else was working his table for this show? I was just in awe that a dealer would have that kind of reaction to a potential customer.

Mark >>

Big, heavy-set guy, balding with a dark fringe of hair slicked back.
I merely assumed that anybody who would badmouth somebody by name would know who it was they are talking about. >>

With all due respect, I didn't hear bad-mouthing Captain - I heard an honest assessment of bad behaviour by a dealer. Shocking that it should ever actually happen, what?

BTW, I enjoyed the show report - thanks for taking the time to share your experience, Speety!

percyb · April 18, 2008 9:07AM

<< 
Big, heavy-set guy, balding with a dark fringe of hair slicked back.
I merely assumed that anybody who would badmouth somebody by name would know who it was they are talking about. >>

Sounds like the guy i saw, maybe it was just the outside circumstances. Is he usually a pretty nice guy? >>

The guy I saw wasn't the heavy set guy. That guy was nice. It was the thin guy....dark hair. I'm sure he's a nice guy. He was only very terse and abrupt with me. I knew about his son....and the recent developments. I just let it go....but jeeze.

speety · April 18, 2008 9:11AM

<< 

<< 
Big, heavy-set guy, balding with a dark fringe of hair slicked back.
I merely assumed that anybody who would badmouth somebody by name would know who it was they are talking about. >>

Sounds like the guy i saw, maybe it was just the outside circumstances. Is he usually a pretty nice guy? >>

The guy I saw wasn't the heavy set guy. That guy was nice. It was the thin guy....dark hair. I'm sure he's a nice guy. He was only very terse and abrupt with me. I knew about his son....and the recent developments. I just let it go....but jeeze. >>

I changed the OP to say 'at Lenny Bird's Table...'. I'm sure Lenny is going through a hard time and what happened to his son is a tragedy and i hope the criminals get what they deserve, but i'm still shocked how potential customers were treated at Lenny's table today.

SeattleSlammer · April 18, 2008 9:16AM

There was not a single fully struck 1883 N/C nickel on the floor, i'm starting to doubt that they exist.

Well, if you can't find one well struck, at least get one with some color! Some of the reverse corn on mine looks more like sausage....but that's okay with me because I bought it for the color.

CaptHenway · April 18, 2008 9:20AM

Purty!

DeusExMachina · April 18, 2008 9:30AM

Speety, nice report. Thanks for the update.

My advice would be to turn a negative into a positive. I'm a little older than 18 but I do look young for my age. And I look really young compared to most of the collectors on the bourse. My experience has been that if a dealer appears uninterested in showing me an expensive coin, I speak intelligently about the coin itself or the series. This approach has always worked for me.

I was at a local show in Southern California and was speaking with an elderly dealer. He had a fantastic 1839-O reeded edge half dollar in his case (I would have bought it but I already own an example). I asked to see the coin and he responded, "that's a four figure coin, you know." I told him how I thought the date was underrated and I hadn't ever seen a coin with such a toning pattern. He immediate changed his tune and let me view the coin.

DaveG · April 18, 2008 9:31AM

Speety,

I'm not surprised you haven't been able to find a copy of W-B - it has been out of stock for three or four years now.

I recommend keepig an eye on eBay and the numismatic book auctions if you want a shot at a copy.

speety · April 18, 2008 9:35AM

<< Speety, nice report. Thanks for the update.

My advice would be to turn a negative into a positive. I'm a little older than 18 but I do look young for my age. And I look really young compared to most of the collectors on the bourse. My experience has been that if a dealer appears uninterested in showing me an expensive coin, I speak intelligently about the coin itself or the series. This approach has always worked for me.

I was at a local show in Southern California and was speaking with an elderly dealer. He had a fantastic 1839-O reeded edge half dollar in his case (I would have bought it but I already own an example). I asked to see the coin and he responded, "that's a four figure coin, you know." I told him how I thought the date was underrated and I hadn't ever seen a coin with such a toning pattern. He immediate changed his tune and let me view the coin. >>

That's what i usually do, but we already had one in MS-63 and this would have been a dupe. A nice AU seated dollar is hard to come by and I always look at any that have promise whether we have one or not. So after the dealer was rude i just walked away -- if he doesn't want my business, why give it to him?

CaptHenway · April 18, 2008 9:36AM

You never know your audience. About a year ago I had a middle-aged man in an expensive business suit come into the coin shop looking for a present. He looked around a bit and asked to see an MS-66 slabbed $20 priced at $1950.-- He said "I'll take it." and I wrote up an invoice. He then hands me a $20 bill and expects change.

SeattleSlammer · April 18, 2008 9:39AM

MS-66 slabbed $20 priced at $1950.-- He said "I'll take it." and I wrote up an invoice. He then hands me a $20 bill and expects change.

What a moron.

BlindedByEgo · April 18, 2008 9:41AM

<< You never know your audience. About a year ago I had a middle-aged man in an expensive business suit come into the coin shop looking for a present. He looked around a bit and asked to see an MS-66 slabbed $20 priced at $1950.-- He said "I'll take it." and I wrote up an invoice. He then hands me a $20 bill and expects change. >>

Now that is priceless.

speety · April 18, 2008 10:10AM

<< You never know your audience. About a year ago I had a middle-aged man in an expensive business suit come into the coin shop looking for a present. He looked around a bit and asked to see an MS-66 slabbed $20 priced at $1950.-- He said "I'll take it." and I wrote up an invoice. He then hands me a $20 bill and expects change. >>

Hahahaha now that's funny! Face value alone is $20!

pennyannie · April 18, 2008 10:18AM

Speety- I know the feeling.... Snooty dealers that think they can tell if you can buy something or not based on age/appearence. I like to get Mr. Hipps talking about the old days. He has a ton of good stories. I have not bought a lot from them, but if they have it a deal can usually be made that both can live with. I like the return policy they give me. Never had to use it, but peace of mind knowing it could be returned.

doh · April 18, 2008 10:57AM

I'm an under 30 collector who has experienced dealers ignoring me or actually chuckling when I ask to see a 4 figure coin. However, I had some good experiences with several dealers at CSNS today. These were dealers I have dealt with online, but never actually met in person. When I told them my name and/or reminded them what I had purchased from them in the past I was treated very nicely (almost like an old friend in some cases). Gail at JJTeaparty was nice enough to show me boxes of new purchases, Harry Laibstain and I chatted for awhile, I sat at Richard Quitmeyer of Yellow River Rare Coins table for awhile....Paul from RCNH and I compared notes on a 1901-S Quarter and there are many others who were truly very nice dealers. Of course, in a perfect world we'd all be treated the same regardless of whether we've dealt with the dealer before, but today at CSNS I was treated very well.

leothelyon · April 18, 2008 5:05PM

There was a guy name Barry in Lenny Bird's booth. This guy wouldn't let me see a couple coins either. I have bought many high quality coins from many dealers over the years, this hasn't been one of them.

Leo

Barberian · April 18, 2008 6:10PM

Why don't they print more copies of W and B? There are probably hundreds of people looking for a used copy. Frustrating!

speety · April 18, 2008 10:47PM

<< Why don't they print more copies of W and B? There are probably hundreds of people looking for a used copy. Frustrating! >>

I was talking to one of the numismatic literature dealers in Baltimore a few months back and he said the publishers wouldn't do it even when promised an order of 10-20,000 books. Anyone knows who owns the rights to this book?

bushmaster8 · April 19, 2008 2:36AM

Funny, as I was reading this thread I was thinking, "Lenny was working his table alone, but from Speety's description of a guy being a jerk, I'll bet he had Barry behind his table at that time..."

Then I got to Leothelyon's post and sure enuff, enter Barry.

Lenny would never treat anyone that way, he is first rate. But he would do well to distance himself from slimy Barry.

DeusExMachina · April 19, 2008 3:42AM

<< So after the dealer was rude i just walked away -- if he doesn't want my business, why give it to him? >>

Speety, I could not agree more. Some dealers are just bitter and unpleasant but sometimes they are just temporarily grumpy. Either way, these dealers don't deserve your business (and what a horrible business model too). Ultimately, you have to decide how badly you want the coin. I try to be postive because you never know but I've walked away from many tables and coin shops just shaking my head. I guess that is why I hang out "here" rather than local coin shops.

cladking · April 19, 2008 7:30AM

<< 

Bingo! The obverse is often found fully struck, but the left corn is (almost) always a blob. We already have an MS-64 that is very well struck, so we are being extremely picky on our upgrade/duplicate (it is one of the very few dates that we don't have two of already, i love this series!). >>

I love all the cu/ ni. It's really neat. Trying to find well struck examples is often far harder than a glance would indicate.

I hadn't noticed that this coin is tough with a full strike since so many are found with good strikes.

Another CSNS Show Report

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