'private' registry sets.........
Doogy
Posts: 4,508 ✭
anyone else annoyed at registry sets that have won the top prize year after year that are not even able to be seen? I noticed the top set for the US type set, and you cannot even click on the set, let alone see any pictures or grades. I think many would agree that Mr. Eliasberg had the most fascinating and best set of US coins of anyone to collect, and he was so humble with his collection that he allowed it to be printed it in a major magazine (LIFE, if i recall). I remember reading that after the magazine went to print, the publisher was flooded with questions about coin collecting, and how to get started.
I'm not saying the owners of these sets should give any info that may risk their security, but why is it that a person is allowed to take the top spot when others vying for the same award can't even see the grades of the coins they are competing against? Imagine taking your classic Corvette to a car show, only to have the judge award the 'best in show' to a car that is only available to the judge's eyes and hidden from the other entrants view!
I don't "get it", anyone else?
I'm not saying the owners of these sets should give any info that may risk their security, but why is it that a person is allowed to take the top spot when others vying for the same award can't even see the grades of the coins they are competing against? Imagine taking your classic Corvette to a car show, only to have the judge award the 'best in show' to a car that is only available to the judge's eyes and hidden from the other entrants view!
I don't "get it", anyone else?
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Comments
U.S. Type Set
<< <i>kinda' like hearing the 'American Idols' contestants all year, waiting 'till the final episode and then having the smug Simon Cowell stand up at the last minute and arrogantly say: "we've already picked the bloody Idol, you've never seen him on this show, he is a terrific talent and you'll just have to take our word for it. see you next season!" >>
Very True!
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."
That said, it is really annoying especially in top sets that have little room for growing anyway.
<< <i>People who are in high end sets don't want potential sellers to artificially raise prices on coins that may be of interest while a set is being built.
That said, it is really annoying especially in top sets that have little room for growing anyway. >>
Agreed. Most people that have had top sets have done exactly this. Kept them locked for fear of price gouging.
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<< <i>
<< <i>kinda' like hearing the 'American Idols' contestants all year, waiting 'till the final episode and then having the smug Simon Cowell stand up at the last minute and arrogantly say: "we've already picked the bloody Idol, you've never seen him on this show, he is a terrific talent and you'll just have to take our word for it. see you next season!" >>
Very True!
>>
Simon was talking about this guy.
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<< <i>It is up to the registry owners whether they want their sets seen or not. Your being "annoyed" because they do not feel the need to please you is irrelevent. You do what you wish with your set, and let others do what they want with theirs. >>
sure, it is certainly their choice to have a 'secret' set if PCGS allows it (and continues to), but i think i made a very valid point about the competitive nature of things. What other hobbies, competitions, etc. can someone have a secret set that is unknown to the rest of the participants, and they can be awarded first place? PCGS and NGC promotes competition in their registry sets, but it seems unfair to compete against others if you don't know what you're up against!
<< <i>I understand what BECOKA is writing about, but I also find it frustrating that sets can be blacked out yet "win" whatever category they are in...and I don't even have a PCGS registry set. However, if one is so concerned about having someone try to price gouge on a set, why don't those folks not list their sets until they are done? After all, they are not sharing their sets, or any other information, with the greater community while they are blacked out. >>
thats a very valid point; if a person that has a top set that is blacked out and a non-descriptive name/title that no one can figure out their identity, then why do they "compete" anyway? ego? sense of accomplishment? If this is the case, how does it stroke their ego and sense of accomplishment to have a half finished "secret" set worming its way up to the top; wouldn't it be more of an ego boost to come out of the blue with a top 3 set than to have that secret worm sliming up from the bottom?
-Randy Newman
<< <i>It is up to the registry owners whether they want their sets seen or not. Your being "annoyed" because they do not feel the need to please you is irrelevent. You do what you wish with your set, and let others do what they want with theirs. >>
To me that makes no sense. Why bother registering a set, winning top honors, and make it "private"? Just seems stupid. Very stupid. Kind of like what you would expect from a serious coin geek.
Of course, it's their set, and they can do with their property what they will. No argument on that. They're still geeks, but they ARE geeks with rights.
Edited for spelling.
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<< <i>
<< <i>It is up to the registry owners whether they want their sets seen or not. Your being "annoyed" because they do not feel the need to please you is irrelevent. You do what you wish with your set, and let others do what they want with theirs. >>
To me that makes no sense. Why bother registering a set, winning top honors, and make it "private"? Just seems stupid. Very stupid. Kind of like what you would expect from a serious coin geek.
Of course, it's their set, and they can do with their property what they will. No argument on that. They're still geeks, but they ARE geeks with rights.
Edited for spelling. >>
to me, it is all about TRANSPARENCY. If you're gonna' hold some competition with coveted top honors, you have to know what you're competing against!
The stage: the 2008 Beijing Olympics.
The runners line up at the starting line what is expected to be an impressive race. Most of them look nervous, as the reported fastest runner in the world is unknown to the field (both in name and having ever raced in formal competition), and hasn't shown up to the staging area yet. Just then, the President of the Olympic Committee comes over the loudspeaker to announce:
"the 100 meter men's final is not to be run, as we have privately witnessed the running of the world's fastest man, and will be awarding the medal in a private ceremony. thank you for coming out today."
<< <i>Agreed, top sets that are blacked out to the public should not get best set. The point of the registry is to show off your sets. If it is not ready to show of then don't register it. >>
No you're wrong, the point of the registry is the get the award!!!
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agree with the sentiments closed set no award!
myCCset
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<< <i>Wouldn't that be like the winner of a beauty pagent wearing a full length burka? >>
Don't you guys have something more important to complain about?
Why isn't the CAC registry online yet?
<< <i>People who are in high end sets don't want potential sellers to artificially raise prices on coins that may be of interest while a set is being built.
That said, it is really annoying especially in top sets that have little room for growing anyway. >>
I'd say why even start a set then, just keep it out of the registry until yer ready to bare it.
<< <i>That bugs me too...but what bugs me most is when someone has a multi-hundred thousand dollar collection in the top ranked spot with no photos whatsoever. >>
Maybe cuz they bought the holder and not the coin and are ashamed of the coins or might be revealed as a not very discriminating collector. Just ask Laura about some of those high ranking sets.
Its been said here by those that have seen them that the coins in the California sets are very nice. I'd say if one is worried about being gouged or held hostage why not just fill those spots with filler or decoy coins?
<< <i>This is another example of why the "hobby" is not growing. interest in coins is up. Sales are up. Prices are up. Everything is up, except what is good for the hobby. Self promotion, self importance, self preservation is/has taken the toll on the hobby. Examples like this again show that many people involved in coins are so because of what it does for them, not because of what they can do for the hobby. IMO >>
Whats so wrong with that? It takes ALL kinds to make the world and a hobby go round.
Imagine if every coin had a TrueView and people could vote on them? It could be like American Coin Collector Idol!
<< <i>Maybe cuz they bought the holder and not the coin and are ashamed of the coins or might be revealed as a not very discriminating collector. >>
Or worse they cracked out /resubmitted to sell the coin. Now they have an insert collection.
<< <i>As already mentioned, there are very valid reasons for blacking out a registry set. There are also very valid reasons for having one's coins listed in the Set Registry that have nothing to do with winning some silly little piece of paper [such as it's a nice place to keep an up to date inventory for insurance purposes]. If you think that someone is going to spend hundreds of thousands [or millions] of dollars just to win some specious award...
Don't you guys have something more important to complain about? >>
Uhhh...let me think...
Nope...
I don't think so...
If I only had a dollar for every VAM I have...err...nevermind...I do!!
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Russ, NCNE
<< <i>As already mentioned, there are very valid reasons for blacking out a registry set. There are also very valid reasons for having one's coins listed in the Set Registry that have nothing to do with winning some silly little piece of paper [such as it's a nice place to keep an up to date inventory for insurance purposes]. If you think that someone is going to spend hundreds of thousands [or millions] of dollars just to win some specious award... >>
If that's the case, then there should be nothing wrong with disqualifying such sets from the competition.
<< <i>
<< <i>As already mentioned, there are very valid reasons for blacking out a registry set. There are also very valid reasons for having one's coins listed in the Set Registry that have nothing to do with winning some silly little piece of paper [such as it's a nice place to keep an up to date inventory for insurance purposes]. If you think that someone is going to spend hundreds of thousands [or millions] of dollars just to win some specious award... >>
If that's the case, then there should be nothing wrong with disqualifying such sets from the competition. >>
I think this makes a lot of sense.
If PCGS wanted to do this, they would have done it years ago. Like Russ says - if there's no pics, then who really cares???
Wrong…Most sets are well known as eventually dealers supplying the sets and collectors of like coins eventually find out who these folks are. Besides, if your that paranoid, why would you ever say you or the set exists on a public internet forum????? Besides, most show up to collect their awards at the Luncheon!
Myth # 2 Sets are closed to keep dealers and other collectors from contacting the owner and offering coins they are missing or potential upgrades.
Wrong…As stated above, those high end sets have less contact they would like to think they would get because the coins and grades they are after are too rare to begin with. Besides, would you not want to know there was a coin that would enhance your set? Besides, the dealer knows who you are and will find you at the next big show anyway.
Myth # 3 Closed sets keep the competition from seeing what you are missing and outbidding you on a coin you need.
Best excuse yet, and just that, an excuse, because many sets are complete. Prized coins in these sets are highly publicized and sought after by many high-end collectors anyway. Like it or not, your going to have competition.
No, the real reason for closed sets has nothing to do with money or collecting coins, it has to do with EGO. Its about keeping the other guy guessing and demonstrating the fact that these folks have David Halls home number and can call him anytime. They have had tours of the grading room and probably know the graders on first name basis. The ONLY rule in effect to move a top set is to have it removed by the owners themselves. PCGS will remove a set after so many years of inactivity, but I do not think it counts on these sets. Recent added coins to the registry sets has bumped a few high end and closed/retired sets down which I must admit I was wondering how PCGS was going to handle this ‘delicate” situation. But on other threads there was also a call for time limitations or other criteria to keep the competition fresh and spread the fun around. But PCGS is not here for fun, they are here for money, and what the top dogs want, well, they get.
WS
<< <i>As already mentioned, there are very valid reasons for blacking out a registry set. There are also very valid reasons for having one's coins listed in the Set Registry that have nothing to do with winning some silly little piece of paper [such as it's a nice place to keep an up to date inventory for insurance purposes]. If you think that someone is going to spend hundreds of thousands [or millions] of dollars just to win some specious award...
Don't you guys have something more important to complain about? >>
I daresay that anyone who can build a multi-million dollar set of coins can afford one hel!uvalotta better system for keeping and setting a value for their inventory than the registry system
And heck yeah, you KNOW that serious coin geeks with more money than social graces surely build sets for the ego value of the aforementioned "specious award"... Specious argument, at best.
Closing an "award winning" registry set is antithetical to the registry system, IMO - especially as regards transparency.
Being a Libertarian, I will of course fight to the death for their rights (under current rules) to do so, however
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I totally agree with everything Russ said here.
If a set is private, it doesn't interest me, and if it has no
photos, It doesn't interest me...
...at all.
~
"America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
Top ranked sets without photos may not be meant for those people to view.
Is there a conflict? Or not?
<< <i>No, the real reason for closed sets has nothing to do with money or collecting coins, it has to do with EGO. >>
If a person is driven by ego, wouldn't he want everyone to see descriptions and photos of his treasures so he could properly bask in the associated glory?
Who is John Galt?
<< <i>
<< <i>No, the real reason for closed sets has nothing to do with money or collecting coins, it has to do with EGO. >>
If a person is driven by ego, wouldn't he want everyone to see descriptions and photos of his treasures so he could properly bask in the associated glory? >>
Not necessarily. He may know everyone he cares to impress. There may be no ego to be stroked from impressing the masses.