Can creases be removed???

torc · April 12, 2008 2:45AM

Can creases be removed from cards?
Has anyone successfully done this to where it is virtually impossible to say that the card was creased?
Does heat, steam and high pressure remove a crease from a card?
Or will there always be some kind of indication that it was creased?
Thanks in advance
here is a card, can this crease be removed without ever showing afterwards?

swartz1 · April 12, 2008 2:57AM

Are you looking to get it graded? just curious...

torc · April 12, 2008 3:03AM

<< Are you looking to get it graded? just curious... >>

I would want to yes, eventually, but if the crease could never be removed, then Authentic would have to do I guess.

storm888 · April 12, 2008 3:04AM

Many creases can be removed.

BUT, they might come back months/years later.

Stone193 · April 12, 2008 3:48AM

<< Many creases can be removed.

BUT, they might come back months/years later. >>

Here's a little "primer" on 'soaking' cards to enhance them in many ways - including improving the appearance of slight creases.

I agree - I've heard that creases will come back in time - no direct knowledge/experience.

This is very controversial - soaking cards is considered by many to be a form of "tampering" - i.e. - alteration of the card which is frowned upon in the hobby.

Draw ones own conclusion.

mike

CDsNuts · April 12, 2008 3:54AM

Sure, I know how you can remove the crease: First you're gonna need a Torque wrench, an iron welder, a pint of cottage cheese (preferably part skim), and 3 ounces of Mountain Dew. You'll have to figure the rest out on your own.

Lee

Stone193 · April 12, 2008 4:01AM

<< Sure, I know how you can remove the crease: First you're gonna need a Torque wrench, an iron welder, a pint of cottage cheese (preferably part skim), and 3 ounces of Mountain Dew. You'll have to figure the rest out on your own.

Lee >>

You forgot one important thing Lee...

Ya gotta have a thorough knowdge of thermodynamics and quantum physics - i.e. noteworthy - the thermodynamic law of The Molecular Coefficient of Expansion and Contraction of different materials. Break out the "partial derivatives" if ya please.

OAKESY25 · April 12, 2008 4:11AM

I have heard you can... but I have seen soaked cards and I could still easily tell.. although it is much less evident

CDsNuts · April 12, 2008 4:13AM

Mike, don't get me started on partial derivatives. I could go on all day about partial derivatives. My nickname in high school was "Mr. Partial Deriviative".

wallst32 · April 12, 2008 4:25AM

Judging by the amount of paper loss in the crease (ie how wide and evident the "white" crease is), I doubt soaking will be of any benefit (although I can't claim to have any experience soaking cards). The cardboard is going to expand when it absorbs water; that should "stretch" the crease out more than it already is (the problem is the surface is creased through, so all the paper around that area is already weak). I could see this method potentially being effective if the crease does not break through the surface of the card (ie you don't see a "white" line).

perkdog · April 12, 2008 4:35AM

If you do get the crease out and get it graded and it comes back a 9 whats the purpose?

torc · April 12, 2008 4:42AM

<< If you do get the crease out and get it graded and it comes back a 9 whats the purpose? >>

It would mean that it went from a $12 card to a $2500 card

Stingray · April 12, 2008 4:49AM

<< 

<< Sure, I know how you can remove the crease: First you're gonna need a Torque wrench, an iron welder, a pint of cottage cheese (preferably part skim), and 3 ounces of Mountain Dew. You'll have to figure the rest out on your own.

Lee >>

You forgot one important thing Lee...

Ya gotta have a thorough knowdge of thermodynamics and quantum physics - i.e. noteworthy - the thermodynamic law of The Molecular Coefficient of Expansion and Contraction of different materials. Break out the "partial derivatives" if ya please.

>>

cardfan07 · April 12, 2008 4:59AM

$2500 card to who?

cohocorp · April 12, 2008 5:00AM

<< 

<< If you do get the crease out and get it graded and it comes back a 9 whats the purpose? >>

It would mean that it went from a $12 card to a $2500 card

>>

just so you know, the vast majority of members on here, if not everyone, look down on and or despise people who alter cards. taking out a crease is altering. its a big no-no.

fkw · April 12, 2008 5:07AM

Yes, some light creases can be removed. And some will reshow later.

A high % of 19th Century cards and especially Victorian Trade Cards were soaked at one point or another to remove them from the Victorian Scrapbooks.

Soaking a card is not altering the card. There is no restoration or altering of the actual card.

WinPitcher · April 12, 2008 5:08AM

$2500 card to who?

Not to me that is for sure.

Steve

StanTheManMusial · April 12, 2008 5:46AM

<< $2500 card to who?

Not to me that is for sure.

Steve >>

That makes 2 of us.

And while we are on the subject, I find the desires of the OP not in the best interest of the hobby. Nothing like "patching" or "altering" a card to pass the problem off to some other poor soul.

torc · April 12, 2008 5:48AM

Hey guys, before you go flaming me, I was asking a simple question
$12-$2500 is hypothetical, I was just directly answering the question

I do not have this card in my possesion, but if I did, yes I would want to remove the crease. But that would be, not because I wanted to re-sell it, but to keep it in my PC and just have a great looking card.

I may still pick it up, and have it slabbed as Authentic only, just to have one in my PC

nflhof · April 12, 2008 5:49AM

Come on guys it all ball bearings now.

torc · April 12, 2008 6:16AM

<< I find the desires of the OP not in the best interest of the hobby. Nothing like "patching" or "altering" a card to pass the problem off to some other poor soul. >>

Where in any of my posts did I say I wanted to pass the problem off to another unsuspecting buyer?

Please don't put words in my mouth, or assume what my motives are.

swartz1 · April 12, 2008 6:17AM

If memory serves - a gem mint 10 of that card a few years back fetched a pretty penny...

swartz1 · April 12, 2008 6:17AM

<< Come on guys it all ball bearings now. >>

classic...

perkdog · April 12, 2008 6:19AM

<< If memory serves - a gem mint 10 of that card a few years back fetched a pretty penny... >>

I think it was $125,000? Doubt that will ever turn a profit but who knows?

torc · April 12, 2008 6:25AM

<< 

<< If memory serves - a gem mint 10 of that card a few years back fetched a pretty penny... >>

I think it was $125,000? Doubt that will ever turn a profit but who knows? >>

you mean this one????? for sale BIN @ $125,000.00
link

StanTheManMusial · April 12, 2008 6:26AM

<< 

<< I find the desires of the OP not in the best interest of the hobby. Nothing like "patching" or "altering" a card to pass the problem off to some other poor soul. >>

Where in any of my posts did I say I wanted to pass the problem off to another unsuspecting buyer?

Please don't put words in my mouth, or assume what my motives are. >>

Here are your words..

<< 

<< If you do get the crease out and get it graded and it comes back a 9 whats the purpose? >>

It would mean that it went from a $12 card to a $2500 card

>>

You mentioning it going from a $12 to $2500 card, and asking about how to get the creases out, does not leave anything open to your intentions being suspect??

perkdog · April 12, 2008 6:29AM

<< 

<< 

<< If memory serves - a gem mint 10 of that card a few years back fetched a pretty penny... >>

I think it was $125,000? Doubt that will ever turn a profit but who knows? >>

you mean this one????? for sale BIN @ $125,000.00
link >>

No I meant the one that sold in 2001 for the $125K, I wonder if this is that same buyer trying to get his money back

/

torc · April 12, 2008 6:31AM

<< 

You mentioning it going from a $12 to $2500 card, and asking about how to get the creases out, does not leave anything open to your intentions being suspect?? >>

That was in response to anothers question, check the thread
and I answered it as hypothetical, quit busting my balls

StanTheManMusial · April 12, 2008 6:46AM

<< 

<< 

You mentioning it going from a $12 to $2500 card, and asking about how to get the creases out, does not leave anything open to your intentions being suspect?? >>

That was in response to anothers question, check the thread
and I answered it as hypothetical, quit busting my balls >>

Not busting your balls, just stating what has been laid on the table.

1. Why, if you want to keep the card forever, should being a $12 or $2500 card really matter?

2. Why mention money if that has nothing to do with your intentions to sell it?

3. Why would you want to alter a card if you plan to keep it forever?

Not accusing you of anything, but it does look suspect, that you want to know if you can/how to remove creases, and then start talking about money in the same breath.. Think about it.

P.S. I do not deal in hypotheticals, I live in the real world where greed is ruining this hobby with trimming/altering of cards.

A761506 · April 12, 2008 6:55AM

The answer to the question of the original post, about whether the large crease in that Tiger Woods card could be removed, is absolutely no. It is way to deep of a crease, the surface is broken, and not even a professional conservator could restore that crease without the card showing evidence of the restoration, as it would need touch up paint.

That card is not even worth having slabbed, and they would not put an AUTHENTIC label on it, they would just grade it a 1 or 1.5.

PSASAP · April 12, 2008 7:13AM

That card probably came out of a public library copy.

WinPitcher · April 12, 2008 7:13AM

What Josh said.

Steve

swartz1 · April 12, 2008 8:34AM

you gotta have thick skin around here...good question - nice card...good luck

BobaFett72 · April 12, 2008 8:39AM

"This is very controversial - soaking cards is considered by many to be a form of "tampering" - i.e. - alteration of the card which is frowned upon in the hobby."

this is very true, but very common with art/antiquities and such that are touched up and restored...they dont seem to lose value.

JeremyDie1 · April 12, 2008 8:55AM

<< That card probably came out of a public library copy.

>>

swartz1 · April 12, 2008 8:59AM

you could be right - that is how my brother found his - except it was at a yardsale where a mother was selling off all of her "older" sons magazines - he wound up getting it for a dime - I cant talk him into getting it graded though...

grote15 · April 12, 2008 9:00AM

The question posed in the thread is by definition one that suggests deception and card doctoring. Not legitimate, IMO.

swartz1 · April 12, 2008 9:03AM

the question is legit - whether he wants to "doctor" for purposes to deceive is another story...but I dont think that was his original intention...although I could be wrong...

StanTheManMusial · April 12, 2008 9:08AM

<< the question is legit - whether he wants to "doctor" for purposes to deceive is another story...but I dont think that was his original intention...although I could be wrong... >>

<< Can creases be removed from cards?
Has anyone successfully done this to where it is virtually impossible to say that the card was creased?
>>

<< 

<< If you do get the crease out and get it graded and it comes back a 9 whats the purpose? >>

It would mean that it went from a $12 card to a $2500 card

>>

Hmmm..........

swartz1 · April 12, 2008 9:10AM

hence the smiley...

jimq112 · April 12, 2008 9:13AM

To answer the OPs question -

you're not going to make that P-F condition card into anything more than an abused card.

I think there are people who can and do soak and press out surface wrinkles. I think sometimes those cards that were fixed end up in graded holders, and I think sometimes those graded fixed cards end up having surface wrinkles later after they've been sold. The new owners are usually disappointed.

I also think the card soakers generally soak tobacco cards and early gum cards, not cards like the tiger woods card. Different paper, different ink. All you will get if you soak that thing is a creased card with water damage.

There might also be people who can make big creases go away temporarily. I'm not sure those cards pass grading very often at the big 3 but there are probably examples where they have.

Your card is not worth the effort. If you're looking to make a quick buck there are easier ways. If you want it for your own collection just buy a nice lucite holder or other card holder to protect it from further damage.

I have cards that are abused and even cards that have been fixed. I have them because I like to look at them.

StanTheManMusial · April 12, 2008 9:16AM

<< hence the smiley... >>

Hence, he is speaking of money. Hence, money leads people into doing crazy things to obtain it, like becoming educated on how to alter cards to make a profit. If it was not about money, the $12 to $2500 comments would have never entered the conversation. But.......just my opinion.

swartz1 · April 12, 2008 9:27AM

You cant honestly think he is going to alter/soak the card and get PSA to grade it higer than it would in that condition...if you do ...you have been believing too much of the crap people have been dishing out around on these boards lately...dont believe the hype...

StanTheManMusial · April 12, 2008 9:39AM

<< You cant honestly think he is going to alter/soak the card and get PSA to grade it higer than it would in that condition...if you do ...you have been believing too much of the crap people have been dishing out around on these boards lately...dont believe the hype... >>

Did I say that? In this day and age, nothing surprises me with greed and money, so I simply said that it smells when guys start asking these types of questions, and then speak of turning $12 into $2500.

The guys who trim and alter cards have learned their "trade" from asking questions and thinking/experimenting in this exact way, so it just sends up red flags to me. Think what you want, but my head will not rest in the sand.

Stone193 · April 12, 2008 9:43AM

<< "This is very controversial - soaking cards is considered by many to be a form of "tampering" - i.e. - alteration of the card which is frowned upon in the hobby."

this is very true, but very common with art/antiquities and such that are touched up and restored...they dont seem to lose value. >>

Boba - the other areas of collecting while true is not relevant to our hobby.

What is - is. Alterting cards is considered unacceptable.

I don't have a problem with restoring cards if stated and let the public decide what it's worth.

But, for the moment - soaking a card is considered alteration by most people - as was stated - the crease can come back - and if so, the new buyer no longer has the "same" card.

torc - I think you asked an honest question - not sure how long you've been collecting - and I have no axe to grind...

But as the hobby stands right now, I believe you're going down that slippery slope if you're considering altering a card for "any" reason - the fact that you'll keep the card in your collection may not have relevance...

It's like saying - I'm stealing this Van Gogh painting - but I'm not gonna sell it; just keep it in the basement for personal aggrandizement.

mike

swartz1 · April 12, 2008 9:45AM

okay - you didnt say that - but how else would the card go from $12 to $2500?

StanTheManMusial · April 12, 2008 9:51AM

<< okay - you didnt say that - but how else would the card go from $12 to $2500? >>

Why not ask this question to the guy who suggested such?

I guess I am just stubborn on this subject, but I feel a card that has been monkeyed with in any way is not right. I would rather have a card with creases, bad corners, edges, centering, or surface, than one that has been altered. Anything besides the stated, just seems a little bit dirty and crooked, if it has been tampered with.

swartz1 · April 12, 2008 9:59AM

let me go back...hence the smiley (did you figure it out)

grote15 · April 12, 2008 10:05AM

What does a smiley have to do with anything?

I think most collectors here frown on doctoring or altering cards, and with good reason.

StanTheManMusial · April 12, 2008 10:05AM

<< let me go back...hence the smiley (did you figure it out) >>

I am going to go forward, and just forget it, swartz.

Not worth wasting my time trying to explain why so many of us hobbyists have issues with people tampering with cards.

If you fail to see the problem, I don't know what else to tell you.

swartz1 · April 12, 2008 10:18AM

<< What does a smiley have to do with anything?

I think most collectors here frown on doctoring or altering cards, and with good reason. >>

I agree with you ...this guy came asking an honest question...

Does anyone really care what someone else does with their time and their own cards?

the smiley was his way of "joking" with financial gain...

p.s no edits

Can creases be removed???

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