Perhaps the best thing we can do is to do our homework before buying. I really don't see how this can be stopped. Has there ever been a time when coins were not counterfeited?
Does anyone have a problem with me posting a link to this thread on the eBay coins forum? Don't want to do it without asking first.
Regards,
John
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
At this time the counterfeits coming out of china are not that good, even a novice collector should know there is something wrong. However, greed sometimes blinds those on the buying end of these coins and they don't want to know the truth. The real concern with these is when the counterfeiters get more skilled at their nefarious craft, with the production capacity they have we could all be in for a very unpleasant ride.
If you are in the Western North Carolina area, please consider visiting our coin shop:
Weren't some of the proof US Bust dollars restruck as late as the 1830s? That could account for the presence of the 1822 British dies and some of the others in the pictures.
Here's something nobody has considered.
These are OLD photographs of REAL coins being struck in the US Mint at Philadelphia, in the early 1800s!
Some foreign dies just happened to be lying around, too. Yeah, that's gotta be it.
Just think of how much these pictures are gonna shake up the collecting community of people who collect vintage photographs!
I mean, here they've been thinking all this time that the very first photograph was taken around 1829, and that only blurry, black-and-white daguerreotypes and such were produced back then.
And now we have proof that they had COLOR film back then!
<< <i>At this time the counterfeits coming out of china are not that good, even a novice collector should know there is something wrong. However, greed sometimes blinds those on the buying end of these coins and they don't want to know the truth. The real concern with these is when the counterfeiters get more skilled at their nefarious craft, with the production capacity they have we could all be in for a very unpleasant ride. >>
There are already very high quality counterfeits out there. The vast majority are not that good but there are people out there making some pretty impressive stuff. I have seen some Japanese 50 sen pieces that looked perfect until I picked them up and realized they were underweight. If they can make something that looks perfect, how hard would it be to make it the correct weight? There have been some threads here in the past showing some copies of early 20th century Chinese silver coinage that were completely mind-blowing so they can already make excellent copies but most of the copies now are probably coming out of garages like the one we see in these images.
They've come a long way from the days of crudely cast counterfeits, for sure.
Scary stuff.
If they can make a fake coin that well, you can bet that fake plastic slabs are child's play for them. (As we've already seen.)
Fortunately they still seem to overlook the subtle nuances of lettering and sometimes even spelling (note the hologram on the fake Chinese "NGC" slabs).
Everyone will take a close look at say even an XF 1799 Dollar.
How many will even pay a second look at so many lesser coins? Coins valued in the thousand dollar range or, generic saints or ( make a list ).
Better believe this is serious.
This should take revenues from places like ebay ( AND IT SHOULD ) BUt so many other unsuspecting folks will get burned and our government will do nothing about it. Heck I'll be surprised if law enforcement takes more than a passing interest in it. I will NOT be surprised if mafia wannabe's and other hoodlums will sell tens of millions of dollars ( hundreds of millions? ) in their boiler room operations.
In regards to your comment, "Heck I'll be surprised if law enforcement takes more than a passing interest in it." I hope you understand that it isn't WE don't want to do something about it, it's the fact we CAN'T do something about it. When a counterfeiter is in another country we have no jurisdiction over them. The only thing we can do is merely attempt to stop the flow from coming into the US. With a site like Ebay, the feds would actually have to step in an shut it down, which isn't going to happen. I understand Ebay's argument that there is no way they can stop all counterfeits, because they can't. Even if Ebay went in and prevented anyone in China from registering an account, the counterfeiters would simply send their coins to other places to be sold from there. To be honest, this is NOT a battle coin collector's will win. I liken this to the war on drugs, we can fight all we want (which is what I intend to do until I can no longer fight) but all we will do is merely slow it down. If someone can come up with a REASONABLE way to fix the problem then let us know. Until then you merely haved to watch who you buy from. Todd
<< <i>In regards to your comment, "Heck I'll be surprised if law enforcement takes more than a passing interest in it." I hope you understand that it isn't WE don't want to do something about it, it's the fact we CAN'T do something about it. When a counterfeiter is in another country we have no jurisdiction over them. The only thing we can do is merely attempt to stop the flow from coming into the US. With a site like Ebay, the feds would actually have to step in an shut it down, which isn't going to happen. I understand Ebay's argument that there is no way they can stop all counterfeits, because they can't. Even if Ebay went in and prevented anyone in China from registering an account, the counterfeiters would simply send their coins to other places to be sold from there. To be honest, this is NOT a battle coin collector's will win. I liken this to the war on drugs, we can fight all we want (which is what I intend to do until I can no longer fight) but all we will do is merely slow it down. If someone can come up with a REASONABLE way to fix the problem then let us know. Until then you merely haved to watch who you buy from. Todd >>
Oh I understand totally and No this is not like the "war on drugs". This is nothing like that at all. And you can take issue all you want with my statement about law enforcement. Frankly you missed the point by a mile. I was not suggesting law "enforcement" to do anything with regards to China preventing the counterfeiting. That IS an issue for our "representatives" who are in fact ignoring what's coming out of that country.
Law enforcement won't even get involved NOW in most cases on wire fraud and the like. There's no way that law enforcement would take issue with illegal sellers IN THE US for a host of reasons. Perhaps one of those reasons would be they are involved with busting someone for being involved with that evil marijuana while there are people getting robbed, and killed. The reasoable way of course would be to focus more on criminals who will be ripping citizens off for potentially large sums of money, surveile and arrest them. That would seem reasonable to me .
You obvioulsy have a skewed sense of reality when it comes to law enforcement. I do take GREAT exceptions to your comments. We work our butts off EVERY day to make sure citizens like you have a free and safe country to live in (along with your military). I take exception when someone tells me that we (law enforcement) don't care about the citizens and we only care about making drug bust. Far from it. If you don't believe me then take a trip to work with me one day. As far as Law Enforcement getting involved in fraud, again you are sadly mistaken. There was recently a law passed that gave all law enforcement the jurisdiction to prosecute and investigate online fraud cases regardless where they originated from. That was the biggest draw backs a few years ago. You have to decide where the crime took place and if it took place in cyberspace then who had jurisdiction. It just strikes me in a wrong way when someone tries to say we aren't doing our job, which in reality is what you are saying. And this is EXACTLY like the war on drugs in the fact it is a problem that can never be solved and will always be around. You can't stop it, you can only hope to try and slow it down. Look at the current trends with gangs in the US. Citizens of this country are so blind to the problems and realities of fighting those problems. I feel sorry for those that live in bubbles and have no clue what is really going on out there. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you try to say something about them. Todd
<< <i>You obvioulsy have a skewed sense of reality when it comes to law enforcement. I do take GREAT exceptions to your comments. We work our butts off EVERY day to make sure citizens like you have a free and safe country to live in (along with your military). I take exception when someone tells me that we (law enforcement) don't care about the citizens and we only care about making drug bust. Far from it. If you don't believe me then take a trip to work with me one day. As far as Law Enforcement getting involved in fraud, again you are sadly mistaken. There was recently a law passed that gave all law enforcement the jurisdiction to prosecute and investigate online fraud cases regardless where they originated from. That was the biggest draw backs a few years ago. You have to decide where the crime took place and if it took place in cyberspace then who had jurisdiction. It just strikes me in a wrong way when someone tries to say we aren't doing our job, which in reality is what you are saying. And this is EXACTLY like the war on drugs in the fact it is a problem that can never be solved and will always be around. You can't stop it, you can only hope to try and slow it down. Look at the current trends with gangs in the US. Citizens of this country are so blind to the problems and realities of fighting those problems. I feel sorry for those that live in bubbles and have no clue what is really going on out there. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you try to say something about them. Todd >>
You really are arrogant . No surprise at all.
We were in fact victimzed and "law enforcement" such as yourself either made excuses as to why they were too busy, or ignored the complaint totally. In 2 different states.
There is an old saying, "If you want something done right, do it yourself." If you don't think it was done "right", then you go become an officer and do that job then I'll talk to you about it. You obivously have no clue how this job works. I don't grade coins or pick on those that do because I have never done it and I'm not trained to do it. If you aren't trained to do something you should probably keep quite about how its done. I can see that this topic has strayed off course so I'll let it alone from here on out. Todd
Please assist me. Am I incorrect that counterfeiting of a nations' money by another nations' government is considered an act of war? Not that I am accusing the govenment of the source of the counterfeit items in this discussion of being cognizant of or encouraging the practice or anything.....Respectfully, John Curlis
Technically it would be. In the 1700 and 1800's England minted counterfeit Reales to try and ruin the Spanish monetary system. The beef people should have is with the Federal Law Enforcement, not the local. The local guys, like me, can only do so much. As I said before, if someone can come up with a great idea to stop it then let me know, better yet...let the Feds know because anything short of war won't stop it. Right now our city and others along I-85 are getting hammered by car break ins. The guys are slick, changing cars, chaning dates, times, mo's, and everything. We are all at the mercy right now. The only way we have been able to catch any of these guys is by sharing information among ourselves. Same with the coin world. The more info we put out there about bad buyers, sellers, counterfeiters, and the like the better off we will be. The best way to buy an expensive coin would be to find one in a holder from a respected dealer. Of course now the holders are being counterfeited so that makes that hard to. Right now the problem seems to be with higher end coins, ones they can sell a few of and make large amounts of money off of. What will ruin the hobby is if they get into lower value coins and start selling more for less. THats when we will have trouble. Todd
Thank You. I thought I remembered international treaty law correctly. Therefore, it is not local or federal law enforcement that has responsibility of enforcement(or lack thereof). It is, by law, Congress. Respectfully, John Curlis Oh, almost forgot- translate that to nothing will be done about it.
Comments
Don't want to do it without asking first.
Regards,
John
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>Does anyone have a problem with me posting a link to this thread on the eBay coins forum?
Don't want to do it without asking first.
Regards,
John >>
I wish you would!
WNC Coins, LLC
1987-C Hendersonville Road
Asheville, NC 28803
wnccoins.com
WNC Coins, LLC
1987-C Hendersonville Road
Asheville, NC 28803
wnccoins.com
Has anybody reposted this to the Liteside yet?
Weren't some of the proof US Bust dollars restruck as late as the 1830s? That could account for the presence of the 1822 British dies and some of the others in the pictures.
Here's something nobody has considered.
These are OLD photographs of REAL coins being struck in the US Mint at Philadelphia, in the early 1800s!
Some foreign dies just happened to be lying around, too. Yeah, that's gotta be it.
Just think of how much these pictures are gonna shake up the collecting community of people who collect vintage photographs!
I mean, here they've been thinking all this time that the very first photograph was taken around 1829, and that only blurry, black-and-white daguerreotypes and such were produced back then.
And now we have proof that they had COLOR film back then!
This is gonna change history!
<< <i>At this time the counterfeits coming out of china are not that good, even a novice collector should know there is something wrong. However, greed sometimes blinds those on the buying end of these coins and they don't want to know the truth. The real concern with these is when the counterfeiters get more skilled at their nefarious craft, with the production capacity they have we could all be in for a very unpleasant ride. >>
There are already very high quality counterfeits out there. The vast majority are not that good but there are people out there making some pretty impressive stuff. I have seen some Japanese 50 sen pieces that looked perfect until I picked them up and realized they were underweight. If they can make something that looks perfect, how hard would it be to make it the correct weight? There have been some threads here in the past showing some copies of early 20th century Chinese silver coinage that were completely mind-blowing so they can already make excellent copies but most of the copies now are probably coming out of garages like the one we see in these images.
Scary stuff.
If they can make a fake coin that well, you can bet that fake plastic slabs are child's play for them. (As we've already seen.)
Fortunately they still seem to overlook the subtle nuances of lettering and sometimes even spelling (note the hologram on the fake Chinese "NGC" slabs).
But they're a clever lot.
How many will even pay a second look at so many lesser coins? Coins valued in the thousand dollar range or, generic saints or ( make a list ).
Better believe this is serious.
This should take revenues from places like ebay ( AND IT SHOULD ) BUt so many other unsuspecting folks will get burned and our government will do nothing about it. Heck I'll be surprised if law enforcement takes more than a passing interest in it. I will NOT be surprised if mafia wannabe's and other hoodlums will sell tens of millions of dollars ( hundreds of millions? ) in their boiler room operations.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Todd
<< <i>In regards to your comment, "Heck I'll be surprised if law enforcement takes more than a passing interest in it." I hope you understand that it isn't WE don't want to do something about it, it's the fact we CAN'T do something about it. When a counterfeiter is in another country we have no jurisdiction over them. The only thing we can do is merely attempt to stop the flow from coming into the US. With a site like Ebay, the feds would actually have to step in an shut it down, which isn't going to happen. I understand Ebay's argument that there is no way they can stop all counterfeits, because they can't. Even if Ebay went in and prevented anyone in China from registering an account, the counterfeiters would simply send their coins to other places to be sold from there. To be honest, this is NOT a battle coin collector's will win. I liken this to the war on drugs, we can fight all we want (which is what I intend to do until I can no longer fight) but all we will do is merely slow it down. If someone can come up with a REASONABLE way to fix the problem then let us know. Until then you merely haved to watch who you buy from.
Todd >>
Oh I understand totally and No this is not like the "war on drugs". This is nothing like that at all. And you can take issue all you want with my statement about law enforcement. Frankly you missed the point by a mile. I was not suggesting law "enforcement" to do anything with regards to China preventing the counterfeiting. That IS an issue for our "representatives" who are in fact ignoring what's coming out of that country.
Law enforcement won't even get involved NOW in most cases on wire fraud and the like. There's no way that law enforcement would take issue with illegal sellers IN THE US for a host of reasons. Perhaps one of those reasons would be they are involved with busting someone for being involved with that evil marijuana while there are people getting robbed, and killed. The reasoable way of course would be to focus more on criminals who will be ripping citizens off for potentially large sums of money, surveile and arrest them. That would seem reasonable to me .
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Todd
<< <i>You obvioulsy have a skewed sense of reality when it comes to law enforcement. I do take GREAT exceptions to your comments. We work our butts off EVERY day to make sure citizens like you have a free and safe country to live in (along with your military). I take exception when someone tells me that we (law enforcement) don't care about the citizens and we only care about making drug bust. Far from it. If you don't believe me then take a trip to work with me one day. As far as Law Enforcement getting involved in fraud, again you are sadly mistaken. There was recently a law passed that gave all law enforcement the jurisdiction to prosecute and investigate online fraud cases regardless where they originated from. That was the biggest draw backs a few years ago. You have to decide where the crime took place and if it took place in cyberspace then who had jurisdiction. It just strikes me in a wrong way when someone tries to say we aren't doing our job, which in reality is what you are saying. And this is EXACTLY like the war on drugs in the fact it is a problem that can never be solved and will always be around. You can't stop it, you can only hope to try and slow it down. Look at the current trends with gangs in the US. Citizens of this country are so blind to the problems and realities of fighting those problems. I feel sorry for those that live in bubbles and have no clue what is really going on out there. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you try to say something about them.
Todd >>
You really are arrogant . No surprise at all.
We were in fact victimzed and "law enforcement" such as yourself either made excuses as to why they were too busy, or ignored the complaint totally. In 2 different states.
Thanks for keeping us free and safe
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Todd
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Todd