OT: As popular as Stamp Collecting is...Why no good forums?

RunnersDad · March 26, 2008 11:50PM

I have been attempting to find a good philatelic message board lately...but have come up empty handed. The Collector's Universe board is sparse with activity as are the other boards that I can find. Why is it that Stamp Collecting is a very popular hobby....maybe not as much with the younger generation...but still quite popular, and there are no forums to discuss the hobby with fellow enthusiasts. I am not a stamp collector persay...I do have a number of them...but my fortay is American Lung Association Christmas Seals. Anyone have an answer to this question, other than the computer generation of collector's find Pokemon and Webkinz more attractive than Stamps?

Also if anyone is interested in xmas seals I have a vast surplus that I need to liquidate. Thanks everyone!

RYK · March 26, 2008 11:51PM

I suspect that stamp collecting is not as popular as you think.

RunnersDad · March 26, 2008 11:56PM

I suppose that you are correct. Since the infusion of the no lick adhesive stamp, I guess it takes some of the fun away from collecting. And as the Stamp collector's get older....they have not had the success passing on their hobby like the Coin, and Sportscard collector's have.

lkrarecoins · March 26, 2008 11:57PM

I suspect that stamp collecting is not as popular as you think Exactly what i was thinking

dorkkarl · March 26, 2008 11:57PM

the difference between stamps & coins is that in coins, you have alot of collectors, who each collects or owns just a few coins (on average). a average collector might have something like 25 coins, lets say. but in stamps, your typical collector could have literally 100s & 100s of stamps. i tried to get into that hobby at 1 time, but just could'nt keep the interest going though. too many variables, i thought.

K S

291fifth · March 27, 2008 12:09AM

Stamp collecting in the US has been slipping in popularity for many years. The advent of self-stick stamps has not helped matters.

There is still a group of collectors (most are serious exhibitors) that are very devoted to the hobby, but they tend to be quite wealthy and move in very limited circles. On-line discussion groups are apparently not of much interest to them.

There are also high-end investors who buy slabbed stamps. (The traditionalist collectors hate slabbed stamps.)

Have you tried the APS (American Philatelic Society)? Maybe they have an on-line discussion group.

ziggy29 · March 27, 2008 12:12AM

Stamp collecting and coin collecting used to be "sister" hobbies, more or less, both being very popular. For a while, stamps may have been even more popular.

For whatever reason, for the last 20-30 years stamp collecting has languished while coin collecting keeps reaching new highs. Sometimes I wish some of the people would go back to stamps and reduce competition and money chasing coins, but I guess you don't always get what you want...

LouisCamp · March 27, 2008 12:13AM

I sell stamps & coins, I must sell the wrong coin widgets, because stamps outsell coins by a huge margin.

I think coin collectors like to talk a lot about what they have, sort of a macho thing. I find stamp collectors are more reserved.

Ok...you can flame me for that remark.

Lou

RunnersDad · March 27, 2008 12:16AM

The APS has tons of info on shows, dealers, they even have a new identification platform where they will be happy to charge you money to submit a scan or picture of a stamp for identification. They also have available numerous programs and literature for collector's new and old....but no forum. The christmas seals literally fell into my lap...and there are websites devoted specifically to that genre of stamp collecting that I use. Certainly Coins, Records, and Sportscards are my favorite hobbies by far...but it would be nice for Philatelic's to have more access to the expert collector's in their field, similiar to what is available here.

RunnersDad · March 27, 2008 12:17AM

<< I sell stamps & coins, I must sell the wrong coin widgets, because stamps outsell coins by a huge margin.

I think coin collectors like to talk a lot about what they have, sort of a macho thing. I find stamp collectors are more reserved.

Ok...you can flame me for that remark.

Lou >>

Lou...glad to see another Marble collector on the coin boards!

BigRed · March 27, 2008 12:24AM

Since stamp collecting is not near as popular as coin collecting does that mean they are on the cheap? I don't collect stamps but I have some that I cut off of old letters and post cards that I found in an old house when I was a kid.They are the old common ones that have Washington and Franklin on them. They are not worth anything because they have been cancelled but they are cool. I think if I tried and coins get to much more expensive that I could get into stamps somewhat.

centmaster · March 27, 2008 12:31AM

I recently sold off an estate of coins and stamps, and while the coins were an easy sell and brought strong prices, the stamps were anything but an easy sell. Most dealers didn't want the stamps even at face value and bought them at 80% of face to use for postage. The U.N. and foreign in the estate? Forget about it. Couldn't give them away. The coins and stamps were equal collections in terms of value and quality, yet the coins brought well into five figures and the stamps brought less than $500. The stamp dealers all told me the same thing: stamp collecting is dying, and when this generation of collectors goes, so will the hobby.

LouisCamp · March 27, 2008 12:41AM

Well there are a lot more stamps then there are coins. I find it funny how coin collectors go all crazy for toning, because it gives a coin a different look that the brilliant coins. Stamps have a lot more color and besides there are not a lot of hobbies that you can actually make money off of. How much do most photography hobbyists make off of the expensive equipment. There are a zillion cheap stamps, many are better, you just have to find the right market maker.

Lou

doh · March 27, 2008 1:00AM

Stamp collecting is popular? I had no idea.

Although....I suspect if you asked a stamp collector about coin collecting he or she would say the same thing.

pendragon1998 · March 27, 2008 1:05AM

I had a number of rather nice sheets of stamps that I collected in the 1990s and I had some small hopes when I dug them out of storage that they'd be worth something - a little - more than face, anyway. I think I got something like 80% of face from someone who wanted them for postage. That was when I realized that stamps hold absolutely no interest for me any more.

At least I could never be in a situation where I had to sell a morgan dollar for 80c.

goose3 · March 27, 2008 1:06AM

<< Since the infusion of the no lick adhesive stamp, I guess it takes some of the fun away from collecting. >>

Look at it this way, at least you don't have to fool with those pesky hinges.

ziggy29 · March 27, 2008 1:09AM

I actually do enjoy stamp collecting and I am a casual stamp collector. But even though I don't collect coins primarily for the profit potential, I'd be a liar if I claimed the likelihood of selling for a profit (or at worst, a trivial loss) had nothing to do with my willingness to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars on my hobby.

I feel like I'd much more easily and quickly be able to liquidate a $500 coin -- at, near or even above my purchase price -- than a $500 stamp. And that, to me, is the primary reason I don't sink a lot of money into rare stamps even if I am interested in them.

pf70collector · March 27, 2008 1:13AM

I am a former stamp collector. I use to collect the sheets of stamps also. Have over 200. But stopped in the early 90's. I still have them. Plus an extensive collection of mint state stamps dating from the 1930-1960 era all in a Statesman Stamp Album when I collected from age 13 through my early 20's. The no lick four color process printed adhesive stamp, I believe caused the downfall for the average stamp collector.

ubercollector · March 27, 2008 1:27AM

Well that's because most 70-80 year olds don't hang out in forums!

I'm an APS member and when I look at the new members, the ages are...well a tad advanced, very few young collectors.

fc · March 27, 2008 1:28AM

<< I am a former stamp collector. I use to collect the sheets of stamps also. Have over 200. But stopped in the early 90's. I still have them. Plus an extensive collection of mint state stamps dating from the 1930-1960 era all in a Statesman Stamp Album when I collected from age 13 through my early 20's. The no lick four color process printed adhesive stamp, I believe caused the downfall for the average stamp collector. >>

i would have thought the downfall all started when the post office
in the 80s flooded the market with collectible this and that. i can
clearly remember the tons and tons of stuff coming out in such
a fast manner it was overwhelming.

you would have needed boxes and boxes just to store the stuff.
sorta like what happened to comic books and baseball cards in
the same exact time frame. saturate the market, collectors spend
and spend only to find out it is worthless except as postage, and
disillusion the folks buying it.

comic books, stamps, and baseball cards never did recover to their
glory days of the 80s in my mind.

i cannot even remember the last time i saw a child buy a 3! dollar
pack of baseball cards at a seven eleven. comic books are no longer
sold at gas stations for the long road trips to read. the post office
is still sadly trying to foist "collectible" garbage in frames to suckers.

now it is the mints turn to flood the market and the results will be
very predictable.

labeling something collectible is the kiss of death.
all of the above were collectible before because of the reason they
were not marketed like that in their early days. kids wanted their
favorite players, kids wanted to read fun stories, and stamps were
used for mailing things.

ziggy29 · March 27, 2008 1:31AM

<< i would have thought the downfall all started when the post office
in the 80s flooded the market with collectible this and that. i can
clearly remember the tons and tons of stuff coming out in such
a fast manner it was overwhelming. >>

You mean like the Mint is doing today?

fc · March 27, 2008 1:43AM

<< 

<< i would have thought the downfall all started when the post office
in the 80s flooded the market with collectible this and that. i can
clearly remember the tons and tons of stuff coming out in such
a fast manner it was overwhelming. >>

You mean like the Mint is doing today?

>>

exactly. and now, take comic books for example, i only see very
strong prices for earlier stuff. anything in the 1980s through 2008
just sits and collects dust. mass produced, saved in huge numbers
in mylar bags, with mediocre rushed stories.

always exceptions to the rule but 95% of it sits in .25-1 dollar boxes
at comic books stores. back issues during this time frame are a tiny
percentage of their profits. now the stores are full of manga, plastic
dolls, etc... they had to look elsewhere to bring in revenue.

most stores went out of business actually or changed their way of doing
business to include other things.

as for stamps, i do not know of a single store in NH that you can buy
old stamps. not one.

dac076 · March 27, 2008 1:45AM

fc is right. Stamps and sports cards flooded the market with so many commemoratives and special series, that it became impossible to collect them all (sound familiar?), so people lost interest.

I dabbled in stamps for a while, but noticed the following. Go to a coin show and you'll find many young people, even kids. Sometimes it's hard to get close to a dealer's table, which bodes well for the future of numismatics. At a stamp show there was always a seat at the table, and at 45 I was one of the youngest people in the room. It's a shame because there are many beautiful classic stamps, but that's the way it is.

My sister's father-in-law sold his lifetime collection of coins and stamps. The coins bought him a house in Florida. The stamps were hardly worth the paper they were printed on, and he's a pretty knowledgeable collector.

pf70collector · March 27, 2008 1:53AM

exactly. and now, take comic books for example, i only see very
strong prices for earlier stuff. anything in the 1980s through 2008
just sits and collects dust. mass produced,

I remember I bought the Death of Superman comic. Still have 2 of them in unopened original black sleeve back when I actively collected comic books. The first printing sold out. I think it reached $50 at one point. Then they did a second reprint and prices fell to almost the original price.

I agree the mass producing of stamp collectibles killed the hobby and turned-off die hard stamp collectors like myself. I also didn't like the process of which stamps are now produced. Flat plate and rotary printing in the past as compared to 4 color process printing today. They de-romanced the printing process.

johnsim03 · March 27, 2008 1:57AM

Interesting thread. There are many forums for stamp collectors out there, but don't ask me where...

Current eBay auctions (true auctions and BINs from eBay Stores, only - eBay USA):

Stamps and related: 922,911
Coins and related: 464,195

So, one could say, according to this measurement, that stamps are almost twice as popular as coins.

Or, perhaps all the stamp sellers are wasting their time?

Stamps are an immense amount of fun to deal in, and play around with. But, based on my experience, there is
more money in coins, compared to the amount of time needed in order to offer items... However, there is one area
which is very healthy - high end individual stamps and collections.

John

ziggy29 · March 27, 2008 2:00AM

<< But, based on my experience, there is
more money in coins, compared to the amount of time taken in order to offer items... However, there is one area
which is very healthy - high end individual stamps and collections. >>

So quality on the high end is strong, and the average schlock is languishing. Where have I heard that one before?

chiefbob · March 27, 2008 2:01AM

Easter seals, etc., are virtually worthless.

Stamp collecting, in general, is on its death bed.

Many reasons, but two that come to mind are:

1) many of us that are older (I'm 60) got started with an uncle or dad back in the 1940s-1950s. No electronic games, ipods, etc. only TV and 3 or 4 stations at best. the kids rarely have anyone that will try to get them into stamp; if there is one, the kids aren't interested.

2) xBox and other console games attracted the kids (and adults: I've got one and love to play most of the games) like there's no tomorrow. Between Youtube, MySpace, cable TV and these game stations, there are so many distractions that kids just aren't interested in stamps.

I collected stamps for years and then started collecting hand-painted first day covers. Paid a good chunk of change for the scarce ones. Now try to sell them on eBay at even 1/3 what you paid for them. There are some buyers, but you are lucky to even sell half-way decent items.

Sheets of mint stamps are worth anywhere from 70-90% of face value. Because a lot of people saved them, they are only good for postage at this point. Same supply/demand issue as with the warehouses of "rare" baseball and football cards.

Rare, certified stamps seem to have a strong, albeit small market.

I worked in the I.T dept of a major stamp dealer a few years ago. When I saw the floor to ceiling bins in the huge building we worked in, I was almost depressed.

I am now selling off first day covers on the bay at 1/3 to 1/5 (on lucky days) of what I paid for them. And I feel fortunate doing so. The sales go right into Morgans and CBHs now. At least I'll always have the silver value if nothing else. Paper, as a commodity, is worthless.

JMHO

johnsim03 · March 27, 2008 2:08AM

<< Easter seals, etc., are virtually worthless.

Stamp collecting, in general, is on its death bed.

Many reasons, but two that come to mind are:

1) many of us that are older (I'm 60) got started with an uncle or dad back in the 1940s-1950s. No electronic games, ipods, etc. only TV and 3 or 4 stations at best. the kids rarely have anyone that will try to get them into stamp; if there is one, the kids aren't interested.

2) xBox and other console games attracted the kids (and adults: I've got one and love to play most of the games) like there's no tomorrow. Between Youtube, MySpace, cable TV and these game stations, there are so many distractions that kids just aren't interested in stamps.

I collected stamps for years and then started collecting hand-painted first day covers. Paid a good chunk of change for the scarce ones. Now try to sell them on eBay at even 1/3 what you paid for them. There are some buyers, but you are lucky to even sell half-way decent items.

Sheets of mint stamps are worth anywhere from 70-90% of face value. Because a lot of people saved them, they are only good for postage at this point. Same supply/demand issue as with the warehouses of "rare" baseball and football cards.

Rare, certified stamps seem to have a strong, albeit small market.

I worked in the I.T dept of a major stamp dealer a few years ago. When I saw the floor to ceiling bins in the huge building we worked in, I was almost depressed.

I am now selling off first day covers on the bay at 1/3 to 1/5 (on lucky days) of what I paid for them. And I feel fortunate doing so. The sales go right into Morgans and CBHs now. At least I'll always have the silver value if nothing else. Paper, as a commodity, is worthless.

JMHO >>

Good points, but no death bed, IMHO.
Items with little real popular demand, such as hand-painted FDCs and Easter Seals, for that matter, are better offered to collectors
and dealers who specialize in them. For example, via sales approval books from the APS, or some other major organization. If I had
a hoard of off-beat or very specialized items, I would try to find a group of collectors that might appreciate them a bit more than
the bargain hunters on eBay...

There must be a small, hard-core collecting group for both of those kinds of items. It will take longer to dispose of, but might be worth
the wait.

The folks who really get hosed are the ones who buy designer FDCs (at outrageous prices) from slick magazine ads, or whatever.
The schmucks don't realize that there is no demand for such material, which is why they are offered pennies on the dollar when
they offer their treasures to a dealer, etc. Or, even worse, the material is not wanted at any price. Tends to sour the unlucky buyer
on philately in general...

You can find similar scenarios in the coin world, of course.

John

dac076 · March 27, 2008 2:13AM

Stamps and related: 922,911
Coins and related: 464,195

So, one could say, according to this measurement, that stamps are almost twice as popular as coins. Or, perhaps all the stamp sellers are wasting their time?

Or people are liquidating. Also, I think coin dealers often take in stamps with coin collections. They sell them for 80-90% of face or use them for postage, as some here have noted. I used to buy them at a discount to use for postage, but even that's a pain because the denominations are so small.

johnsim03 · March 27, 2008 2:18AM

<< Stamps and related: 922,911
Coins and related: 464,195

So, one could say, according to this measurement, that stamps are almost twice as popular as coins. Or, perhaps all the stamp sellers are wasting their time?

Or people are liquidating. Also, I think coin dealers often take in stamps with coin collections. They sell them for 80-90% of face or use them for postage, as some here have noted. I used to buy them at a discount to use for postage, but even that's a pain because the denominations are so small. >>

I think it is important to remember that "you" can also buy postage for 75-95% of face value. Depends on the denominations and quantity.
The public has a hard time understanding this, but it is the market - it is what they are worth in the real world.

Anyone thinking that they can buy sheets (or even worse, pads) of new issues, save them as an investment, will be sorely disappointed, every time.
Very few recent issues carry a premium. There are millions and millions of the things printed!

John

3sidesofsilver · March 27, 2008 2:19AM

There is an airmail stamp series of 7 transport planes issued during the war years of the early 40's with a face value of $1.39. Stamp companies sell this mint set for about $40. I bought this set recently off the 'bay for 99 cents, 70% of face value, and only a buck to ship. Other recent stamp purchases were similar deals.

I agree that the current manufacturing process and self-adhesive stamps have not attracted stamp collectors, but there are some very wonderful series of years ago that today's stamps cannot compare to, such as the Columbians and Trans-Mississippi issues.

sonoranmonsoon · March 27, 2008 2:20AM

<< I suspect that stamp collecting is not as popular as you think. >>

It isn't anymore. The USPS puts out so many different stamps each year, many collectors became overwhelmed and have given up over the last few decades.

Walmann · March 27, 2008 2:22AM

IMO the greatest factor working against stamp collecting is the internet. This is in regards to people using email instead of using the old post office. A lot of younger people have rarely used a stamp and do so less and less every year.

Many people pay bills electronically via aut pay, on line billing etc.
The average american comes in less and less contact with stamps. People have a greater tendency to collect objects that they see or familar with to some degree. If you never been exposed to something the chances are you will not develop an interest in it.

With credit and debit cards this may mean that coin collecting may have similar issues at some point in the future. However, even young people still have exposure to coins for numerous reasons where stamps, sorry I know of households that don't have a single stamp waiting to be used.

ziggy29 · March 27, 2008 2:34AM

<< I agree that the current manufacturing process and self-adhesive stamps have not attracted stamp collectors, but there are some very wonderful series of years ago that today's stamps cannot compare to, such as the Columbians and Trans-Mississippi issues. >>

In other words, the gap between "classics" and "modern crap" is even greater in stamps than in coins.

3sidesofsilver · March 27, 2008 2:47AM

Exactly, by about 110 years

Colquhoun · March 27, 2008 2:50AM

Well, just to help out any of y'all I will pay full face for C13-C15

Yeah the Post Office killed off stamp collecting for a large number of people with too many issues. The move to never hinged hit some people hard and left a ba taste in their mouth. I still have my airmails and a couple press sheets, but for the most part I quit when I just could no longer keep up with the new issues. Express and Priority were for a time a wonderfull untouched area, but when they realize we would dish out 14.95 for an express stamp that only paid the correct rate when sent to Lithuiania it was all over.

Broadstruck · March 27, 2008 2:53AM

I suspect that stamp collecting is not as popular as you think.

That Hobby took a Major Licking!

sumnom · March 27, 2008 3:00AM

<< the difference between stamps & coins is that in coins, you have alot of collectors, who each collects or owns just a few coins (on average). a average collector might have something like 25 coins, lets say. but in stamps, your typical collector could have literally 100s & 100s of stamps. i tried to get into that hobby at 1 time, but just could'nt keep the interest going though. too many variables, i thought.

K S >>

I suspect that most coin collectors have many more than 25 coins. In fact, every coin collector I have known has at least hundreds. This question could make for a good poll. I'll whip one up.

Colquhoun · March 27, 2008 3:05AM

I have at least 80 60D nickels in my coin purgatory waiting for my to figure out what to do with 80 60D nickels stuck poorly, on late dies, that were thrown in a sack dragged behind a mule before leaving the mint

sumnom · March 27, 2008 3:09AM

Ah, the legendary Mint Mule!

RunnersDad · March 27, 2008 3:23AM

Very interesting replies. I would agree with the vast majority of you that the USPS shot the hobby in the foot when they did away with hinged stamps...and began issuing Commemorative and First Day issues for everything under the sun that they could think of honoring with a Stamp. I have not invested any money in my collection as the Christmas Seals were being thrown away and I salvaged them(I have already made a significant profit off of them...just don't need all the excess) and my actual stamps were given to me by my grandfather. As far as my actual knowledge of stamps takes me the only ones commanding a lot of money these days are older error stamps..inverted, etc....
For no investment other than time, I have been happy. But had it not been for the fact that I received all of mine for free, I probably would not have become engaged in the Philatelic world at all.
Also for the record, I am 25 year old and do collect Coins, Marbles, Glass, Records, Sportscards, etc, I do not collect Stamps because it is stereotypically something someone my age doesn't collect, but because I simply find it to be not that interesting. I actually find looking at Christmas Seals more fascinating than stamps...not sure why?

bluelobster · March 27, 2008 3:58AM

I think stamp collecting used to be a much stronger hobby, not on par with coins, but much closer. I have no doubt that the scandals with stamp "doctoring" which resulted in uncovering how rampant fraud was involved with stamp collecting(especially on EBAY....sound familiar?) really hurt the hobby in a severe and tangible way.

I think it is worth noting some of those same issues are beginning to give many coin collectors pause, and that could be a bigger issue than many believe, imho.

Dentuck · March 27, 2008 4:01AM

Whitman's 100 Greatest American Stamps has been a very popular book.

Overdate · March 27, 2008 4:26AM

I think that some "classic" favorites, such as the 1930s Zeppelins, will continue to be popular regardless of what becomes of the overall stamp collecting hobby.

StampAlarm · March 27, 2008 4:50AM

If the coin hobby slipped in popularity would I be in the ballpark to say:

--The reason the coin hobby has lost popularity is because they stopped making pennies with 95% copper.--

Anyway, what fc says.

Jerry

Michigan · March 27, 2008 4:51AM

There was a big fraud uncovered in one of the major stamp auction houses a few years ago, and I have read about some well known
stamp dealers that have a very shady business reputation (even worse than some coin dealers). Not a field I would want to get into
in a serious way although I do find stamps kind of interesting.

RWB · March 27, 2008 4:58AM

Quite a few stamp collectors are dead - they rarely post anything. All of the ones I used to know are also dead, and do not post much. The last stamp show I visited (in Chantilly, VA) was better attended than many coin shows, only the stamp collectors were a lot thinner so most of the chairs were not broken.

Sometime ago I asked a combined/stamp & coin collector about stamps. He said there was little interest in anything post-WW-II...guess my cowboy error sheets won't pay for college. (We got the kids chocolate bunnies for Easter, not seals. Seals don't have long floppy ears.)

291fifth · March 27, 2008 5:00AM

<< Well, just to help out any of y'all I will pay full face for C13-C15

Yeah the Post Office killed off stamp collecting for a large number of people with too many issues. The move to never hinged hit some people hard and left a ba taste in their mouth. I still have my airmails and a couple press sheets, but for the most part I quit when I just could no longer keep up with the new issues. Express and Priority were for a time a wonderfull untouched area, but when they realize we would dish out 14.95 for an express stamp that only paid the correct rate when sent to Lithuiania it was all over. >>

I was told (by a stamp dealer) many years back (1970's) that the move to never hinged stamps was hyped because dealers knew there was far too much material on the market. They recognized very early that the stamp market was declining slowly but steadily as the years passed. I believe the movement to "never hinged" started in Europe, where stamp collecting was probably more popular than in the US. The dealers were fearful of what would happen when all their customers got older and wanted to cash out of their collections. The dealers didn't want to buy this material back because they still had piles of it that they had acquired as new issues. Since nearly everyone used stamp hinges in those days getting new collectors to want only "never hinged" stamps would give them a legit reason to make puny offers when those older "hinged" collections were offered.

PerryHall · March 27, 2008 5:06AM

<< Whitman's 100 Greatest American Stamps has been a very popular book.

>>

Is the guy on that stamp Bob Hope?

RWB · March 27, 2008 5:07AM

This sounds like it could result in a lot of collectors coming unhinged… or maybe unglued… (No, there is no truth to the rumor that the “100 Greatest Stamps” book only has 99 pages.)

Prethen · March 27, 2008 5:07AM

Philatelists? Popular? My father used to be a wholesale stamp dealer. His famous quote is "The age of the average person at a stamp show is DEAD."

OT: As popular as Stamp Collecting is...Why no good forums?

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