Since TPG's were started so dealers could sell coins sight un-seen why does eBay require pictures of

Bossman88 · March 24, 2008 11:48PM

Just sitting here waiting to see Dr and started thinkin?

Regards, Larry

garsmith · March 24, 2008 11:53PM

Because eBay is not a TPG

notwilight · March 25, 2008 12:00AM

To prove it is graded by a real TPG. your question supports the requirement by ebay rather than refutes it. --jerry

ziggy29 · March 25, 2008 12:04AM

Because too many people either claim that the coin is certified or use the names of TPGs for keyword spamming. The point is that they want to see that the coin really IS certified by the TPG whose name they're dropping.

OKbustchaser · March 25, 2008 12:07AM

And since stock photos are allowed how does this help? One either accepts that the seller is really selling what he says or one doesn't. Eithter way, a picture of a slab rather than the coin one is supposedly buying is of no help whatsoever. People already KNOW what the slab itself looks like.

Bossman88 · March 25, 2008 12:07AM

Very interesting answers,
Regards, Larry

19Lyds · March 25, 2008 12:15AM

Because some folks out there intentionally deceive prospective buyers.

OKbustchaser · March 25, 2008 12:20AM

<< Because some folks out there intentionally deceive prospective buyers. >>

That's true. However, posting a picture of a slab does absolutely nothing to solve that situation.

IrishMike · March 25, 2008 12:22AM

<< 

<< Because some folks out there intentionally deceive prospective buyers. >>

That's true. However, posting a picture of a slab does absolutely nothing to solve that situation. >>

Duh, it would in a court of law.

RedTiger · March 25, 2008 12:32AM

Counterfeit slabs are a real and growing problem. Ebay is where most are being sold. Right now the diagnostics for detecting them can often be done from a photo. Next year or the year after, regular online photos probably won't help much against the next generation of fakes.

jmski52 · March 25, 2008 12:33AM

The OP has a good point. The idea behind TPGs originated before the Internet and online photos even existed. The idea was to present a rock-solid, foolproof method for sight-unseen coin selling.

If you say it is a PCGS MS-64 Morgan, that's all that was ever supposed to be required. The grade was to be universally-accepted by anyone and everyone as long as it had been blessed.

Any falsification of the slab authenticity is just as illegal whether or not a photo is involved.

Zoins · March 25, 2008 12:58AM

Sight unseen means you don't see it in person before buying it w/o return privileges. Sight unseen does not mean you don't see photos before completing the transaction.

Bochiman · March 25, 2008 1:16AM

Tell you what......you want to buy a car and I have one. It is licensed for the road. You don't need to see a picture of it. All you need to know is that it has a roof, doors, tires, etc.

I'll sell it to you for the price you wanted to pay for a car. When you get it, if it isn't what you want, too bad, ok?

Same type of thing...you can't always go by someone's description or trust them (even if they are being as honest as they can). Are you trying to buy the grade or buy the coin itself?

OKbustchaser · March 25, 2008 1:28AM

<< 

<< 

<< Because some folks out there intentionally deceive prospective buyers. >>

That's true. However, posting a picture of a slab does absolutely nothing to solve that situation. >>

Duh, it would in a court of law.

>>

How? A seller who claims to be selling (for example) a PCGS 63 1892 CC Morgan dollar but is actually raw and shows a pic of the coin but no slab is no more guilty of fraud then the same seller claims to be selling (for example) a PCGS 63 1892 CC Morgan dollar but is actually raw and shows a stock pic of a PCGS slab. The only difference is that he actually had to spend 30 seconds on Google to find the picture.

notwilight · March 25, 2008 2:01AM

If you're going to assume they don't ship what is pictured than you've screwed. this no different than ebay or any other mail order place. but if you assume that the seller at least ships what is pictured, which is what ebay and most of us buying there assume, then requiring a slab photo makes sense. Stock photos of moderns that you have multiples of makes sense if the only difference is the serial number but I always offer to send photos of the actual coin to be shipped. ---Jerry

OKbustchaser · March 25, 2008 2:08AM

<< If you're going to assume they don't ship what is pictured than you've screwed. this no different than ebay or any other mail order place. >>

If you are going to assume that they DO ship what is pictured then why not assume they ship what is described? It is exactly the same assumption, ie, that they are a legit seller.

notwilight · March 25, 2008 2:21AM

OK,
Because words are subject to interpretation and smooth deception. Scammers can say one thing and make it sound like another. When it shows up you're in an arguement over interpretation of the words. A photo of a slab doesn't decieve. --Jerry

OKbustchaser · March 25, 2008 2:28AM

What's subjective about the words "Up for auction is a PCGS graded MS-63 1892 CC Morgan dollar."? It either is what it says or it isn't. Either way, I would rather see a pic of the coin then I would a pic of the slab.

Bottom line: Scammers scam regardless of the rules. Honest sellers sell what they claim to be selling.

johngerman · March 25, 2008 2:30AM

And I think collectors are wising-up to the fact, that just because a TPG service might have once put a mind at ease when buying sight unseen, now, people really are looking at the coin and not the holder. How many people here put thier faith in one of the TPG's without looking at the coin and either got the coin in hand and were moderatly displeased, or tried in vain to cross-over, only to find a lower grade come back and went to reholder with the original Service and it came back with a diffrent grade?

I have had several ICG Lincolns, because I always felt they were extremely competent with copper grading and when an opportunity to purchase a 1909 VDB MS-66 RD came about I took it for the price and I must say I was more than moderatley disappointed with the coin when it arrived in the mail. I know it would have came back from PCGS in RB grade, probably a 65 to boot.

People should be aware of the coin, not the holder, and certain eBay Sellers take advantage of newbies inexperience, and sell off a mutt for the price of bulldog. eBay wants to keep people "Feeling" safe because they make more money that way. And this is just another way they are attempting to do it.

I used to see people paying the exact amount on a ACG graded coin as the PCGS ones were selling for on the bay, and it makes you want to scream and contact these people. The coins in some of those ACG holder in MS+ grades makes you want to puke. And new collectors with very little knowlage were being taken in by thier lack of knowlage and went to sell thier "Great" coins when the market bumped and thier local dealer told them, the ACG holdered coins are junk, and they would be getting less than they originally paid for the coin, not more like they were banking on.

Then people got mad and contacted eBay about this and what was eBay to do? They really can't be expected to protect the under-educated, but knew they would be losing a pretty penny if they didn't do something, and here we are today. After a comittee was formed to deal with coins sold on thier site. These "Rules" are thier brainstorms come to life. Because eBay never use to care too much about coins, until they realized it was a lions' share of thier bread and butter. IMO (Grain of Salt and such)

Never.....wait Always......take notes...yes....take notes!

Frankcoins · March 25, 2008 4:48AM

Indeed, in the trade papers, on the Certified Coin Exchange, the old FACTS system, no photo is/was frequired. If you offer a PCGS MS63 1955 half dollar, delivery of such completes the contract. Anyone can steal a photo of a slabbed coin, so a photo offers ZERO assurance that the seller actually has the item listed.

We spend at least the equivalent of a 40 hour week rephotographing coins that we stored in a bank vault so
that we could show both sides of the full slab. Apparently even that effort was wasted, since we are on a 14 day suspension from ebay for listing that SEGS nickel and tellijg people to look at the photo for the name of the slabbing company.

doh · March 25, 2008 4:55AM

<< Either way, I would rather see a pic of the coin then I would a pic of the slab. >>

Agreed. When I sell slabbed coins on eBay I post close ups of the coin and then pics of both side of slabs too. It's 4 pics...little Photoshop "photomerge" and some HTML and it goes pretty smoothly.

19Lyds · March 25, 2008 5:54AM

<< 

<< Because some folks out there intentionally deceive prospective buyers. >>

That's true. However, posting a picture of a slab does absolutely nothing to solve that situation. >>

No, but it does give the buyer recourse to get his/her money back via eBay or PayPal.

OKbustchaser · March 25, 2008 8:21AM

<< 

<< 

<< Because some folks out there intentionally deceive prospective buyers. >>

That's true. However, posting a picture of a slab does absolutely nothing to solve that situation. >>

No, but it does give the buyer recourse to get his/her money back via eBay or PayPal. >>

Not trying to be argumentative--really, I'm not. Maybe I am just dense. (Wouldn't be the first time.

)I just don't follow how the fact that a picture of a slab counts for more than the description "Up for auction is a coin graded such and such by so and so (recognized by Ebay) third party grader. If you buy and receive something else you can request the refund from Paypal for "item not as DESCRIBED--note carefully it isn't not as PICTURED--whether a picture of the slab appeared or not.

DJCoinz · March 25, 2008 8:35AM

<< 

<< Either way, I would rather see a pic of the coin then I would a pic of the slab. >>

Agreed. When I sell slabbed coins on eBay I post close ups of the coin and then pics of both side of slabs too. It's 4 pics...little Photoshop "photomerge" and some HTML and it goes pretty smoothly. >>

Yep.

Since TPG's were started so dealers could sell coins sight un-seen why does eBay require pictures of

Comments

Leave a Comment