Paypal claim denied...seller keeps coins UPDATE..I GOT MONEY BACK AFTERALL

ArizonaJack · March 17, 2008 4:03PM

My long standing claim against seller " docowen" was denied without comment by Paypal tonight.

Filed as a not as described on Feb15th, seller sold me 4 cam Frankies...sent me 4 Kennedys instead. As an Ebay veteran, I did everything properly, filed all claims and forms, and went up against a bigger powerseller.

Paypal says FFFF you !!!! Seller gets to keep the coins AND the money !!!! HaHAHa

I think EBay knows I am a straight shooter, but says F you !!!!! anyways.

BECOKA · March 17, 2008 4:04PM

Did you pay with a credit card? You could always do a charge back.

Sorry to hear of your troubles.

Wolf359 · March 17, 2008 4:06PM

Never trust PayPal - if you can avoid it, do so. Chargeback.

TomB · March 17, 2008 4:08PM

If you paid by credit card, which I always do, you can initiate a chargeback through the card and avoid PayPal entirely.

storm888 · March 17, 2008 4:12PM

CC chargeback is the correct avenue, if you paid with a credit card.

Also, you can call PP and ask for a supervisor. Explain the issue; tell
them you were defrauded, and want to appeal their ruling.

DUIGUY · March 17, 2008 4:20PM

That bights!! As the above has said, Denie the CC charge.

ArizonaJack · March 17, 2008 4:21PM

I guess paying with a funded balance gives me zero leverage.

It is best not to type when P'd off, so I'll hold my breath tonight. I am stunned at the arrogance ( foolish , I know). Hopefully the new website will take off decent, a cpl coins sold in 1st week live already. I soooooo want to screw Ebay, lol. My 2 negs are from a NARUD crook too, wow the arrogance of those F'ers.

Thanks for the concern guys,
Jack

derryb · March 17, 2008 4:24PM

<< If you paid by credit card, which I always do, you can initiate a chargeback through the card and avoid PayPal entirely. >>

When paying with paypal how do you make sure it gets charged to your credit card and not taken out of your paypal funds?

storm888 · March 17, 2008 4:27PM

"When paying with paypal how do you make sure it gets charged to your credit card and not taken out of your paypal funds? "

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////

The menu asks you where the funds are from.

Choose the desired credit-card in the list.

seatedcollector · March 17, 2008 4:29PM

thats a new one ! more often than not, paypal sides with the buyer. cant you file a non-reciept of goods ? after all, at this point, you have nothing to show for the payment.

storm888 · March 17, 2008 4:33PM

"... cant you file a non-reciept of goods ? after all, at this point, you have nothing to show for the payment. "

/////////////////////////////////

The seller likely presented proof of delivery......... of the wrong items.

The buyer likely returned the package; mistakenly thinking the seller was acting in good faith.

An INR claim will not fly, now.

ArizonaJack · March 17, 2008 4:35PM

Seller shipped sig confirmation, I signed for package.......I guess thats all the proof they need, no matter whats IN the package...

Not received claim was filed in JAN, then seller sent tracking #, that claim was cancelled. I had to refile a "not as described" and thats the one they blew me off on....

storm888 · March 17, 2008 5:01PM

"Not received claim was filed in JAN, then seller sent tracking #, that claim was cancelled. I had to refile a "not as described" and thats the one they blew me off on...."

////////////////////////////////////////////////////

If you filed the INR after you signed the ticket, AND THEN followed-up with
a SNAD claim after the INR was denied, PP probably thought you were
acting in bad faith. (It is a pretty common tactic among persistent scamsters.)

I would call PP and talk to the highest-up person I could. Be nice until they
start throwing impossible roadblocks; then, ask them who at PP is authorized to
receive service of legal process. Make sure you have the TOP person on the
phone before you give-up.

Hugegut · March 17, 2008 7:50PM

Did you have proof that you returned to item to the guy? What was their rationale for denying the not-as-advertised claim? Why don't you go down to the courthouse and try to file a criminal case against the guy. Over $100 is a felony in a lot of places.

notwilight · March 17, 2008 7:59PM

Call paypal. If you are a seller accepting enough paypal payments they have assigned you an account rep just like ebay. --Jerry

puritan9 · March 17, 2008 9:26PM

NEVER leave five cents in a Pay Pal account for five minutes!

I have a problem now with Pay Pal. It's something I sold and the package shows delivered! Pal Pal is now "reviewing the case". How long does it take to check a tracking number, a month?

coindeuce · March 17, 2008 9:48PM

Below is the info supplied on the eBay "me" page for "docowen". Why not just start calling him everyday ?

Mckee Coins,Inc., Owen C. Mckee, 213 East Main Street, Ottumwa,Iowa 52501, 1-641-684-6006 mckeecoin@pcsia.net

The seller was doing a high volume on eBay. Could have easily been a clerical mistake both before and after the sale. Any reason why you didn't try to call the seller before filing a PP claim?

Hyperion · March 17, 2008 9:49PM

something makes me think we're not getting 100% of the story.

291fifth · March 17, 2008 10:28PM

<< something makes me think we're not getting 100% of the story. >>

I have that same feeling.

messydesk · March 17, 2008 10:35PM

<< When paying with paypal how do you make sure it gets charged to your credit card and not taken out of your paypal funds? >>

You have to drain your PayPal balance first, which entails a few "are you sure" prompts, then select the credit card from the alternate funding options, which will be an inconspicuous location on the page in 4 point text, usually medium gray on a light gray background, go through a few more "are you sure" prompts, and then make the payment. If you need to make another payment, you need to repeat the process, since you can't save "credit card" as default payment method.

Cratylus · March 18, 2008 1:16AM

If the seller is an ANA or PNG member, I would file a formal complaint. Additionally, you may want to let him know that you've gotten "beyond the money" at this point and now are proceeding on principle. Tell him you intend to file a claim with his local BBB and, moreover and WORSE for him, you intend to fully pursue mail fraud charges against him with the USPS. In other words, I would threaten to make this even more of a hassle for him than this has already been. Depending on how or if he responds, I would be prepared to follow through with all of this.

blu62vette · March 18, 2008 1:21AM

<< 

<< When paying with paypal how do you make sure it gets charged to your credit card and not taken out of your paypal funds? >>

You have to drain your PayPal balance first, which entails a few "are you sure" prompts, then select the credit card from the alternate funding options, which will be an inconspicuous location on the page in 4 point text, usually medium gray on a light gray background, go through a few more "are you sure" prompts, and then make the payment. If you need to make another payment, you need to repeat the process, since you can't save "credit card" as default payment method. >>

I saw 85 bucks in my account the other day and drained it immediately. I now only use credit card also, partially for the points......

jgrinz · March 18, 2008 1:35AM

I have dealt with McKEE before - BOTH times they sent the wrong items.
They were minor so I did not bother sending back ( At least I got to keep something )

ziggy29 · March 18, 2008 1:35AM

Is it possible that this seller got two shipments crossed up and someone else got your Frankies?

If that's the case, AND the person who received your Frankies is keeping his/her mouth shut, the seller might (understandably) think you're trying to pull a fast one and scam him. That's especially true if the person who paid for the Kennedys (but got your Frankies) is being dishonest and not admitting they got the wrong item.

Just a thought.

MadMarty · March 18, 2008 1:37AM

Have you called the seller, I have had some minor issues with them and they took care of it right away.

Also, did you provide PP with a proof of siggy that you returned the items to the seller?

ArizonaJack · March 18, 2008 1:45AM

<< something makes me think we're not getting 100% of the story. >>

You did not get 100% because I went to bed.

Seller would not Ebay invoice me, only sending paypal invoices with an extra 4% added on for paypal charge. This is against the rules. After seeing sellers feedback, I refused to send a check. after CALLING seller twice, I finally paid the paypal with the added 4% THEN reported him for the surcharge. Seller never shipped. I filed non receipt claim.

I THEN received the tracking # and a cpl days later, the WRONG coins.....

I THEN called seller and was told to take a hike......so, I THEN filed the not as described only AFTER caling seller TWICE again and being hung up on. I did NOT return the coins PER paypal pending the investigation for not as described......

I bought these from my buy account, not with my sell account, although both accounts share the sme paypal. I think you can tell by my feedback that I am a shyster, sellers feedback is clean as a whistle...NOT. Call it tuition.....I now know that the paypal folks and ebay folks use fee generated and commision paid as the REAL credibility factor, not any thing like 30-40 complaints for same issue from same seller. Me bad for buying fro a seller with horrible feedback. Call it tuition......

Theres the story, Im sticking to it, and I am leaving for work....will not be able to check boards untill this evening

YaHa · March 18, 2008 1:46AM

I would love to see the ebay auction you won, but I think it's gone after 90 days, do you have a copy to post. Something doesn't sound right. First of all cammies are hard to find in frankies, and as Kennedys they are plentiful. Sorry to hear your problems.

rbalderman1 · March 18, 2008 1:47AM

I agree with ziggy. Sombody probably is happy to have your item and they are just not being honest. I don't know what to do? If mckee asked som1 else if they recieved the wrong coin, and they say No, then you will be out of luck. I guess you can ask them to meet you half way, but good luck anyway.

DJCoinz · March 18, 2008 1:49AM

That sucks Jack...also that's weird that paypal actually sided with the seller. Hope you can get it resolved...

jsf · March 18, 2008 1:51AM

am I the only one, but are others seeing where something may have been lost in translation in these proceedings?

DustyCoinbox · March 18, 2008 1:52AM

Small claims court. I'd sue the b@stard!

ArizonaJack · March 18, 2008 1:57AM

SELLERS FEEDBACK

I'm pennysniper ( buyer account ) maybe, the coins will still show, who knows. Seller is obviously having some same issues from many buyers, not just me

MadMarty · March 18, 2008 1:59AM

I know the auction they had that he is talking about, I won some proof cameo Frankies the 1st round (they were cheap). After that I left them alone because they were fetching way more than I wanted to spend. Well the Frankies arrived and cameo was a stretch. But for what I paid it wasn't worth the hassle and I stuck them into the proof rolls.

As for the 4% PP fee, they have never charged me with that, if you have the E-Mail on the invoice and if it's listed as a PP Fee Paypal is very quick to respond to those.

NH484000 · March 18, 2008 2:05AM

<< SELLERS FEEDBACK

I'm pennysniper ( buyer account ) maybe, the coins will still show, who knows. Seller is obviously having some same issues from many buyers, not just me >>

That's some pretty poor feedback- Personally I would have avoided this seller, and will from now on!

DJCoinz · March 18, 2008 2:10AM

Is it just me or are these, well, not franklins?

Auction 1
Auction 2
Auction 3
Auction 4

tmot99 · March 18, 2008 2:13AM

<< Seller would not Ebay invoice me, only sending paypal invoices with an extra 4% added on for paypal charge. This is against the rules. After seeing sellers feedback, I refused to send a check. after CALLING seller twice, I finally paid the paypal with the added 4% THEN reported him for the surcharge. Seller never shipped. I filed non receipt claim.

I THEN received the tracking # and a cpl days later, the WRONG coins..... >>

This seller has a live auction that typically has over a hundred lots to package up and ship. I'm not sure how long it took him to ship your lot, but I've waited over a week to receive the lots I won. Not unusual for an auction house, especially a small one.

<< I THEN called seller and was told to take a hike......so, I THEN filed the not as described only AFTER caling seller TWICE again and being hung up on. I did NOT return the coins PER paypal pending the investigation for not as described...... >>

I find it hard to believe that PP would have told you not to return them. When I've been on the other side of the story, the buyer simply returned the items and provided the signature that I had received them back. PP claims that the buyer has a full right of return (basically the right to cancel the contract) within X number of days. PP refunded money to buyer.

If you sent them back with signature confirmation, you should still be able to appeal the PP ruling with the signature confirmation and get your money back.

mozeppa · March 18, 2008 2:33AM

'xactly why i don't use pay pimp!

shameful....simply shameful....I'm glad that my conscience would bother me had i wronged anyone!

ajia · March 18, 2008 2:37AM

I am going to presume the images of the Frankies where switched with images of Morgans??

Something just doesn't feel right about image switching after the auction is over.

19Lyds · March 18, 2008 2:55AM

This whole scenario sucks!

tmot99 · March 18, 2008 3:30AM

<< Is it just me or are these, well, not franklins?

Auction 1
Auction 2
Auction 3
Auction 4 >>

You would be correct, those are not franklins. That looks like a group, if the pictures are the same that were posted in the original auction, are mistakes. I find a large number of those on a weekly basis and just in my small concentrated area of collecting. As a bidder, you either don't bid, ask a lot of questions and possibly get new pictures, or take your chances.

fc · March 18, 2008 4:02AM

hah, i would never ever bid on a seller with feedback like that.
i know i am not helping you in anyway but buying coins from
people like that is just not worth it, rare or whatever.

pass on that seller perm.

ArizonaJack · March 18, 2008 4:35AM

Those were not the images, they were Frankies I bid on and won.

The paypal folks told me to hang on to all packaging and await further instructions from them, which I did. When I called last night to check on status of claim, I was told it would be complete by end of shift last night. I checked paypal and it was denied, no explanation email, no nothing Case closed, no refund. Paypal never followed up with me on the 4% either, which I also reported to Ebay AND sent the invoice email, all headers attached , by the book, by the rules every step of the way.

New customer protection policy I guess.....who ever pays more fees wins......

Why am I doing this on my lunch break? Call me crazy

BlindedByEgo · March 18, 2008 4:57AM

<< Below is the info supplied on the eBay "me" page for "docowen". Why not just start calling him everyday ?

Mckee Coins,Inc., Owen C. Mckee, 213 East Main Street, Ottumwa,Iowa 52501, 1-641-684-6006 mckeecoin@pcsia.net

The seller was doing a high volume on eBay. Could have easily been a clerical mistake both before and after the sale. Any reason why you didn't try to call the seller before filing a PP claim? >>

Seems like they'd be worth a call.

slipgate · March 18, 2008 5:27AM

This incident would almost make someone bid on and win a bunch more of his auctions!

19Lyds · March 18, 2008 6:11AM

<< 

<< Below is the info supplied on the eBay "me" page for "docowen". Why not just start calling him everyday ?

Mckee Coins,Inc., Owen C. Mckee, 213 East Main Street, Ottumwa,Iowa 52501, 1-641-684-6006 mckeecoin@pcsia.net

The seller was doing a high volume on eBay. Could have easily been a clerical mistake both before and after the sale. Any reason why you didn't try to call the seller before filing a PP claim? >>

Seems like they'd be worth a call. >>

<< I THEN called seller and was told to take a hike......so, I THEN filed the not as described only AFTER caling seller TWICE again and being hung up on. I did NOT return the coins PER paypal pending the investigation for not as described...... >>

And get hung up on again?

bestday · March 18, 2008 6:24AM

<< SELLERS FEEDBACK

I'm pennysniper ( buyer account ) maybe, the coins will still show, who knows. Seller is obviously having some same issues from many buyers, not just me >>

THIS SELLER REALLY SUCKS ..WHY bid WITH THIs AXXHOLE IN the 1st place ?

Moki · March 18, 2008 5:19PM

I bid on and received a California commemorative from this seller that had been dipped and damaged. I returned it within the 3 days and got a refund to my PayPal account. Perhaps I was lucky! I called them on the phone because they did not respond to my emails. I was left wondering if their big auction was a bit overwhelming to them.

festivusmaximus · March 18, 2008 8:27PM

Calling him is a great idea, if you haven't done so already. I've seen a lot of disputes that could easily have been eliminated with the use of a single phone call. Please don't leave negative feedback until you speak with him (or at least TRY to do so) first. Leaving a NEG will make it less likely that your problem will get resolved amicably.

Also, if he won't resolve your problem, why not see if he is listed with ANA and then you can report him there as well?

<< Below is the info supplied on the eBay "me" page for "docowen". Why not just start calling him everyday ?

Mckee Coins,Inc., Owen C. Mckee, 213 East Main Street, Ottumwa,Iowa 52501, 1-641-684-6006 mckeecoin@pcsia.net

The seller was doing a high volume on eBay. Could have easily been a clerical mistake both before and after the sale. Any reason why you didn't try to call the seller before filing a PP claim? >>

festivusmaximus · March 18, 2008 8:32PM

eBay won't let you modify anything about an auction once it either has a bid or has ended, so you can't engage in image switching under those circumstances although you may ADD additional information to a pending auction if it has a bid. (You can switch images if there are no bids, however.)

<< I am going to presume the images of the Frankies where switched with images of Morgans??

Something just doesn't feel right about image switching after the auction is over. >>

festivusmaximus · March 18, 2008 8:44PM

TOOLHAUS -- That's a pretty cool eBay tool! Never saw that before.

<< SELLERS FEEDBACK >>

ilikebuffaloes · March 18, 2008 10:46PM

<< eBay won't let you modify anything about an auction once it either has a bid or has ended, so you can't engage in image switching under those circumstances although you may ADD additional information to a pending auction if it has a bid. (You can switch images if there are no bids, however.) >>

If you host your own images, you can switch them! You can also make changes to the auction if you put the verbage in an image file and then host it as well. It is not ethical and not something I would do, but it is possible technically...

Paypal claim denied...seller keeps coins UPDATE..I GOT MONEY BACK AFTERALL

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