British Matte Proof - How did they prep planchets?

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JCMhouston
JCMhouston Posts: 5,306 ✭✭✭
in World & Ancient Coins Forum
Here's a 1902 Matte Proof 1/2 Crown, does anyone know how they prepared the planchets for these. I know current methods use a sandblast type finish, these appear almost as if the planchets were brushed. The brush lines run right up to the edge of the devices, then are completely gone where the devices are struck up. Anyway, this reverse has wonderfull toning, subtle (and difficult to image) blue green round the edges.

image
image
JCM-Houston
World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection

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  • lordmarcovan
    lordmarcovan Posts: 45,335 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Good question. I dunno. I thought it was some kind of sandblasty thing. Or acid etching of some sort. Maybe they brushed something on?

    Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.

  • 7Jaguars
    7Jaguars Posts: 8,019 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Hi, the planchets are not the "side" receiving preparation. Actually it is the dies that are sandblasted, though we are not sure of the substance used or if it really was sand or some other particulate matter. I have read quite a bit about this but there does not seem to be documentation of blank or planchet preparation and statements about them are conjectural.

    Also, these pieces nearly all seem to have received a wipe by mint workers prior to release, so minimal hairlines under the glass on surface of coin are the order of the day.
    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • lordmarcovan
    lordmarcovan Posts: 45,335 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Ah. Yes. I knew that. image

    Well, sort of. I wasn't sure if the planchets had some treatment or not, as well. Thanks.

    Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.

  • coinkat
    coinkat Posts: 24,542 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>Text Also, these pieces nearly all seem to have received a wipe by mint workers prior to release, so minimal hairlines under the glass on surface of coin are the order of the day. >>




    That can be quite problematic for the 1902 Proof issues.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • 7Jaguars
    7Jaguars Posts: 8,019 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Yes, as a side issue the major TPGs seem to grade these coins from the smallest 1d Maundy on up through the big 5 pounds gold on a whim. Sometimes they really tag them and other times let identical appearing coins go through with big numbers. Be very careful when purchasing them.

    BTW, I sometimes wonder if the consignor and size of the consingment affect the numbers acheived by the TPGs (no names mentioned!!!).
    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • Syracusian
    Syracusian Posts: 6,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Actually, PCGS in particular is extremely tight when grading 1902 matte proof coins and especially gold. I think that the Terner sovereign was (is?) a top pop at PR63 or PR64, I haven't checked, this is only by memory. When cosmic was building his super 1902 set, he initially bought my 1902 half sovereign,just a PR62, before he managed to upgrade it by one or two points max. The 5 pounders in particular are a miracle if found in true gem or near gem condition and the low relief makes their grading even tougher.

    If the TPGs were making an exception because the Mint workers were rubbing the coins on their aprons, it would be unfair to other coins. Even if the hairlines were caused litterally at the Mint, the coins were not as struck anymore.
    Dimitri



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  • 7Jaguars
    7Jaguars Posts: 8,019 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    True, but my point is (and if you saw some of the coins at Goldberg & Superior who have both had runs of these coins the last couple of years you will know what I mean) there DEFINATELY was variance from a standard. I highly recommend against buying one of these based on the "P" or "N" number on the holder and that the coin should be looked at with a 5x - 10x glass.

    I am not suggesting that they discount for mint hairlines but rather that they attempt to stay consistent with the grading of these pieces. If you were to come to the DC area or perhaps a Baltimore show sometime I would show you exactly what I am talking about.
    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • 7Jaguars
    7Jaguars Posts: 8,019 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Yes, the above is incorrect with regards to the later matte proofs post 1902: in their case - the 1927, 1937, 1950, 1951 and 1953 coins had the planchets blasted POST-STRIKE.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • coinkat
    coinkat Posts: 24,542 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Has anyone heard from JCMHouston lately? I have not seen him active on the forum in years. Hope he is okay.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • 7Jaguars
    7Jaguars Posts: 8,019 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Yes, I hope so as well. He was a most gracious host, meeting up with me back when I had to go to Houston so often & shared many coin stories and adventures. I too hope he is alright - somehow I fear the worst as we used to correspond regularly as well but that fell off abruptly & he did not respond.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • neildrobertson
    neildrobertson Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @coinkat said:
    Has anyone heard from JCMHouston lately? I have not seen him active on the forum in years. Hope he is okay.

    It's been a while since I checked in with him. But he retired from collecting not soon after retiring from work. He said he got to the point that improvements to his collection were becoming very expensive and that he should focus on the more important things in life. I don't think he had any intention of selling his coins in the near future.

    IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
    "Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me

  • coinkat
    coinkat Posts: 24,542 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thanks for providing an update. I met him years ago at the NYINT and was he was pleasant and had a significant interest in British coinage.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

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