Even if what NCM is doing is 100% legal, doesn't it give you kind of a good feeling to see Spitzer standing up and saying "it may be legal but me and the gubmint are gonna make you take credit for what you did, and prove in court that it's legal".
<< <i> And all politicians are lowlifes, liars and thieves. All. >>
Come on now. Maybe a significant percentage, but certainly not "all".
<< <i> If you don't want your "name" used in conjunction with people whose mission is to scam people, then contract your "services" elsewhere. But since your claiming these are your only customers then that in and of itself is telling of what your talents are, or what the market is for this crap. >>
Ouch. I'm certainly not happy with the whole situation. I've "suggested" alternate marketing strategies to NCMint in the past. The Spitzer action will probably cause them to change their marketing approach - and that is certainly a good thing in my opinion. Spitzer will carry a lot more weight with them than I do in the marketing department.
But like it or not, there is a market for cheap "souvenir" coins. Not everyone can afford the "rare US "investment coins" that you sell.
<< <i> As the saying goes, "everyone has a price". You just sell out cheaply. >>
There aren't a lot of opportunities to design coins/medals. I'll take what work I can get.
<< <i> Hope you're enjoying the notoriety and continuing with your assertion that these scam medals will be worth more because of the publicity, then your "art" should be worth more too huh? >>
I'm not enjoying any of this.
These "coins" are already selling for higher prices due to the publicity. That is a fact. I don't believe they will have any great long-term "value". $20 souvenirs usually don't.
I read very well, I read a lack of foundation in your position, wanting to take a position just for the sake of taking it without putting forth reasoning behind it, other than parroting back in feeble fashion. After all, you're just trying to feed your family, right?
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
<< <i>so Tom, you blame Dan for designing the medal based on what the owners of the design do with it after he completes his work? >>
Frank, I think he should answer that question at the trial. And what's to worry about? After all, they are all just "trying to feed their families" right? >>
There isn't going to be any "trial", so I'll answer that question right now. NCMint pays me to create a picture of a coin design. I send them the picture via email. At that point, I'm done with it. They take the picture and do whatever with it. Am I to blame for what they do with it ? Is General Motors to blame when someone drives one of their cars while intoxicated ? Is Coin World to blame for printing the Freedom Tower advertisements ? Are the TV networks to blame for running the ads ? Is PCGS to blame for supplying NCMint with WTC recovery silver ?
If Tom wasn't a coin dealer, he'd probably proclaim that all coin dealers are "lying cheater scum".
Tom, you probably deal in PCGS graded coins. What say you about the fact that PCGS was a supplier for the "ghastly" marketing of WTC recovery coins ? How dare you associate yourself with an outfit that profited from the WTC disaster
PS: I have no idea how NCMint obtained the WTC recovery silver used to create the Freedom Tower coin. But anyone can obtain some on eBay thanks to PCGS.
I have long praised your work - particulraly the proposed state quarter designs - as extraordinary. You have every right to sell your services. I completely disagree with NCM's marketing of this piece, but for Tom and others to be painting you with the same brush is just absurd.
Of course, he choses to do that with a very broad brush to avoid painting himself into a corner highlighting his exceptionally narrow minded view of this item.
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
<< <i> NCM also calls it a "silver dollar," and says the coin is "created using .999 Pure Silver." It's not a "poor inference" to believe the coin is actually made of .999 pure silver -- that's what the advertising actually says. >>
They call it a "silver dollar" well that's true, it is. It is siver colored and it is covered with silver. They say "created using .999 pure silver". This is also true. The silver they used was .999 pure, and in fact still is. They also say it is .999 silver CLAD. Everything is true. I don't deny that it is worded in such a way as to get people to make an improper inference if they don't analyze the claims carefully, but there is nothing illegal about that.
As to the "legal tender" questions, early ads referred to the CNMI coins as legal tender but after the federal government started squacking they changed it to "legal currency" which is not the same thing. (I'm not convinced yet that the CNMI can't issue their own currency or legal tender as there is nothing in the Constitution forbidding it, and there is historical precedent for it.) And if you look at the ad quoted on the first page of this thread, they never referred to it as either legal tender or legal currency. (There could have been other things in the ad not quoted in the thread though.) And one thing not brought out in the ad, but available from other sources, is that the governemnt of the CNMI will accept them or redeem them for face value if presented in person. So they stand behind them as coinage.
I think that NCM will be forced to "reword" it's ads for these "coins" I doubt the lawsuit will force them to stop selling them altogether.
Daniel, I didn't know the design for these things was your handywork. They are kinda nice looking. You should continue to do designs for NCM if they request it. They just need to be held accountable for their marketing practices for this peice is all. I think the ads should more clearly state that these pieces are silver plated.
Didn't there use to be a brothel located beside the white house that the president and a lot of congress and the house frequented in the 19th century? Even up thru Kennedy's term there was a lot of that going on, if I remember right was'nt Ike a lady's man? Not saying it is OK but its been going on for a while. These are the people we have running our country.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I think it's extremely rare when "johns" get prosecuted in stings like this, although if any deserve it, Spitzer with his hypocritical crusader tactics, certainly does.
BTW, are any of those silver dollars still around? I'm curious to see what they look like
One: There's no longer a strong precedent for dumping politicians involved in sexual scandals. The most notable example, of course, is Bill Clinton, whose litany of trysts and betrayals is now just a staple of late-night talk show jokes. Then there's San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom, who survived a scandal in which he betrayed his best friend, a political aide, by sleeping with his wife. Then there's Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick. He is hanging onto office even after having apparently lied under oath about his affair and then having overseen a city payment of $9 million to settle wrongful termination suits by police officers who knew about his dalliance. True, former New Jersey Governor James McGreevey did resign after a homosexual affair came to light in 2004. He might have survived politically, but in that case -- because he not only had an affair, but also came out -- his wife was precluded from remaining the stoic-but-forgiving partner that the public could identify with and feel sorry for.
Two: The prostitution laws Spitzer allegedly violated are old, obscure and seldom enforced. Press reports indicate that the real reason Spitzer was caught was because the financial moves he made to cover up the payments to the "Emperor Club" looked like bribes to the Feds. A plea deal would take some hard bargaining, but that's obviously something Spitzer's got a lot of experience with.
Three: Spitzer is a superdelegate to the Democratic Convention, committed to Hillary Clinton. If he sticks around, and backs her, and she makes it to the White House, he's well on his way to executive clemency for any criminal charges he may get hit with.
Four: Voluntarily leaving office obviously doesn't do Spitzer any good. But it wouldn't help the people he betrayed either. As bad as it may be for his family, it would only be worse if the guy weren't governor. If his wife stands by him, then the pressure is on him to stay in office and somehow redeem himself.
Five: It may actually be politically beneficial to Spitzer's opponents to have him stay on as a severely weakened governor. After all, between the sex scandal and the earlier smear campaign against the Republican Senate leader, Spitzer wouldn't be able to utter a word of moral outrage about anything for the next three years.
That's not all true goldbully, he got busted because he moved over 10k of his money around between accounts, then went back and tried to stop it when he realized it would trigger a check into the transfer by the feds. The whole prostitution thing is just the fluff the news likes. He will not be governor by tomorrow morning, probably within the next two hours today. As to jail time, I think that he has already worked that out, he is "one of them" and a democrat in NY, he will not see the inside of a jail cell. JM 2 cents.
<< <i>That's not all true goldbully, he got busted because he moved over 10k of his money around between accounts, then went back and tried to stop it when he realized it would trigger a check into the transfer by the feds. The whole prostitution thing is just the fluff the news likes. He will not be governor by tomorrow morning, probably within the next two hours today. As to jail time, I think that he has already worked that out, he is "one of them" and a democrat in NY, he will not see the inside of a jail cell. JM 2 cents. >>
If I were the judge, I'd sentance him to 5 yrs in prison celled with a fat horny guy named Wally who has a fetish for smacking people with ping pong paddles. I guess thats why I'm not a judge...
I always thought they were done on an actual ASE...I have gotten a ton of these over the counter and it looks like they are painted over an actual silver eagle.
morris
ps, oh and who in the world is Eliot Spitzer...I thought the DA in New York was a guy name Jack McCoy?!
"Repent, for the kindom of heaven is at hand." ** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! ** Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY 28480 B OLD TOWN FRONT ST TEMECULA, CA 92590 (951) 757-0334
Looks like he probably did, although he didn't say "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" Sounds like the lesson he took, was just shut up and admit it and don't look like a bigger jerk than you are.
<< <i>And when they can do that to someone as powerful as him, what are anybody else's chances in the world? >>
Who is "they"? The POS did it to himself.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>And when they can do that to someone as powerful as him, what are anybody else's chances in the world? >> >>
<< <i>I guess if you fail to read beyond the salacious headlines, you might hold such an opinion. you might hold such an opinion. Ignorance is bliss. >>
Are you kidding me, this guy was caught moving around money in the banking system in the State of New York! After 9/11 so many banking rules and laws were changed HE apparently was blissfully ignorant or maybe only book smart (because he had a perfect SAT score and that impresses some)since HE was Attorney General and prosecuted these type crimes involving money and prostitutes.
You just see that 'D' next to a politicians name and have a knee-jerk reaction that it must be the big bad Federal government after him.
Gives us a break! He is and has been a repeat "John" and got what he deserved. Hopefully now he is prosecuted.
Is that Ben and Jerry on that coin?
Sure, we want to go home. We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the bastards who started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home. - General George S. Patton
Comments
So are politicians. So were the salesmen at the telemarketing outfits who rip people off.
No anger implied. Just the facts.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>so Tom, you blame Dan for designing the medal based on what the owners of the design do with it after he completes his work? >>
Frank, I think he should answer that question at the trial. And what's to worry about?
After all, they are all just "trying to feed their families" right?
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>
<< <i>so Tom, you blame Dan for designing the medal based on what the owners of the design do with it after he completes his work? >>
Frank, I think he should answer that question at the trial. And what's to worry about?
After all, they are all just "trying to feed their families" right?
Tom >>
well at least you admit your arguement is foundationless, with your glib "let it fall off the table" response
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>so Tom, you blame Dan for designing the medal based on what the owners of the design do with it after he completes his work? >>
Frank, I think he should answer that question at the trial. And what's to worry about?
After all, they are all just "trying to feed their families" right?
Tom >>
well at least you admit your arguement is foundationless, with your glib "let it fall off the table" response >>
That's what you read into it Frank?
You don't read too well then.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>
And all politicians are lowlifes, liars and thieves. All.
>>
Come on now. Maybe a significant percentage, but certainly not "all".
<< <i>
If you don't want your "name" used in conjunction with people whose mission is to scam people, then contract your "services" elsewhere. But since your claiming these are your only customers then that in and of itself is telling of what your talents are, or what the market is for this crap.
>>
Ouch. I'm certainly not happy with the whole situation. I've "suggested" alternate marketing strategies to NCMint in the past. The Spitzer action will probably cause them to change their marketing approach - and that is certainly a good thing in my opinion. Spitzer will carry a lot more weight with them than I do in the marketing department.
But like it or not, there is a market for cheap "souvenir" coins. Not everyone can afford the "rare US "investment coins" that you sell.
<< <i>
As the saying goes, "everyone has a price". You just sell out cheaply.
>>
There aren't a lot of opportunities to design coins/medals. I'll take what work I can get.
<< <i>
Hope you're enjoying the notoriety and continuing with your assertion that these scam medals will be worth more because of the publicity, then your "art" should be worth more too huh?
>>
I'm not enjoying any of this.
These "coins" are already selling for higher prices due to the publicity. That is a fact. I don't believe they will have any great long-term "value". $20 souvenirs usually don't.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>
<< <i>so Tom, you blame Dan for designing the medal based on what the owners of the design do with it after he completes his work? >>
Frank, I think he should answer that question at the trial. And what's to worry about?
After all, they are all just "trying to feed their families" right?
>>
There isn't going to be any "trial", so I'll answer that question right now. NCMint pays me to create a picture of a coin design. I send them the picture via email. At that point, I'm done with it. They take the picture and do whatever with it. Am I to blame for what they do with it ? Is General Motors to blame when someone drives one of their cars while intoxicated ? Is Coin World to blame for printing the Freedom Tower advertisements ? Are the TV networks to blame for running the ads ? Is PCGS to blame for supplying NCMint with WTC recovery silver ?
If Tom wasn't a coin dealer, he'd probably proclaim that all coin dealers are "lying cheater scum".
Tom, you probably deal in PCGS graded coins. What say you about the fact that PCGS was a supplier for the "ghastly" marketing of WTC recovery coins ? How dare you associate yourself with an outfit that profited from the WTC disaster
PS: I have no idea how NCMint obtained the WTC recovery silver used to create the Freedom Tower coin. But anyone can obtain some on eBay thanks to PCGS.
Just remember to speak into the microphone.
You will be called upon to do so.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
I have long praised your work - particulraly the proposed state quarter designs - as extraordinary. You have every right to sell your services. I completely disagree with NCM's marketing of this piece, but for Tom and others to be painting you with the same brush is just absurd.
Of course, he choses to do that with a very broad brush to avoid painting himself into a corner highlighting his exceptionally narrow minded view of this item.
<< <i> NCM also calls it a "silver dollar," and says the coin is "created using .999 Pure Silver." It's not a "poor inference" to believe the coin is actually made of .999 pure silver -- that's what the advertising actually says. >>
They call it a "silver dollar" well that's true, it is. It is siver colored and it is covered with silver. They say "created using .999 pure silver". This is also true. The silver they used was .999 pure, and in fact still is. They also say it is .999 silver CLAD. Everything is true. I don't deny that it is worded in such a way as to get people to make an improper inference if they don't analyze the claims carefully, but there is nothing illegal about that.
As to the "legal tender" questions, early ads referred to the CNMI coins as legal tender but after the federal government started squacking they changed it to "legal currency" which is not the same thing. (I'm not convinced yet that the CNMI can't issue their own currency or legal tender as there is nothing in the Constitution forbidding it, and there is historical precedent for it.) And if you look at the ad quoted on the first page of this thread, they never referred to it as either legal tender or legal currency. (There could have been other things in the ad not quoted in the thread though.) And one thing not brought out in the ad, but available from other sources, is that the governemnt of the CNMI will accept them or redeem them for face value if presented in person. So they stand behind them as coinage.
Daniel, I didn't know the design for these things was your handywork. They are kinda nice looking. You should continue to do designs for NCM if they request it. They just need to be held accountable for their marketing practices for this peice is all. I think the ads should more clearly state that these pieces are silver plated.
<< <i>I read somewhere the guy used to sell pornography. He was fined $600K and banned from selling porn.
I like Spitzer. He don't take no sh*t from nobody! (how's that for a triple negative?) >>
...and the drive-by media claims "this is such a tragedy."
I pity his 3 girls and lovely wife....he's a cretin who thinks he's above the law.
Say hello to Bubba , Eliot!!! You gotta a brand new name.....Bruce!!
To make this relevant.....no coins allowed behind bars!!!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
BTW, are any of those silver dollars still around? I'm curious to see what they look like
<< <i>Any bets he won't do any jail time? >>
He will plea his way out of jail time.
<< <i>
<< <i>Any bets he won't do any jail time? >>
He will plea his way out of jail time. >>
Politics can truly be absurd.
Consider reason #3 below!!!
GB
From CBS Marketw*tch
Five reasons why Spitzer's not done
By Tom Bemis
One: There's no longer a strong precedent for dumping politicians involved in sexual scandals. The most notable example, of course, is Bill Clinton, whose litany of trysts and betrayals is now just a staple of late-night talk show jokes.
Then there's San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom, who survived a scandal in which he betrayed his best friend, a political aide, by sleeping with his wife. Then there's Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick. He is hanging onto office even after having apparently lied under oath about his affair and then having overseen a city payment of $9 million to settle wrongful termination suits by police officers who knew about his dalliance.
True, former New Jersey Governor James McGreevey did resign after a homosexual affair came to light in 2004. He might have survived politically, but in that case -- because he not only had an affair, but also came out -- his wife was precluded from remaining the stoic-but-forgiving partner that the public could identify with and feel sorry for.
Two: The prostitution laws Spitzer allegedly violated are old, obscure and seldom enforced. Press reports indicate that the real reason Spitzer was caught was because the financial moves he made to cover up the payments to the "Emperor Club" looked like bribes to the Feds. A plea deal would take some hard bargaining, but that's obviously something Spitzer's got a lot of experience with.
Three: Spitzer is a superdelegate to the Democratic Convention, committed to Hillary Clinton. If he sticks around, and backs her, and she makes it to the White House, he's well on his way to executive clemency for any criminal charges he may get hit with.
Four: Voluntarily leaving office obviously doesn't do Spitzer any good. But it wouldn't help the people he betrayed either. As bad as it may be for his family, it would only be worse if the guy weren't governor. If his wife stands by him, then the pressure is on him to stay in office and somehow redeem himself.
Five: It may actually be politically beneficial to Spitzer's opponents to have him stay on as a severely weakened governor. After all, between the sex scandal and the earlier smear campaign against the Republican Senate leader, Spitzer wouldn't be able to utter a word of moral outrage about anything for the next three years.
<< <i>That's not all true goldbully, he got busted because he moved over 10k of his money around between accounts, then went back and tried to stop it when he realized it would trigger a check into the transfer by the feds. The whole prostitution thing is just the fluff the news likes. He will not be governor by tomorrow morning, probably within the next two hours today. As to jail time, I think that he has already worked that out, he is "one of them" and a democrat in NY, he will not see the inside of a jail cell. JM 2 cents. >>
Interesting take rg.
<< <i>
<< <i>Any bets he won't do any jail time? >>
He will plea his way out of jail time. >>
If I were the judge, I'd sentance him to 5 yrs in prison celled with a fat horny guy named Wally who has a fetish for smacking people with ping pong paddles. I guess thats why I'm not a judge...
morris
ps, oh and who in the world is Eliot Spitzer...I thought the DA in New York was a guy name Jack McCoy?!
** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! **
Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY
28480 B OLD TOWN FRONT ST
TEMECULA, CA 92590
(951) 757-0334
www.allvalleycoinandjewelry.com
<< <i>I shoulda' collected coins instead of of those stupid expensive hoes...
Proud recipient of two "You Suck" awards
<<I thought the DA in New York was a guy name Jack McCoy?!>>
Jack McCoy is the man. I love that show!
<< <i>He's about to pay his price.... >>
... pay his price for going after rich people when he was Attorney General.
And when they can do that to someone as powerful as him, what are anybody else's chances in the world?
<< <i>He's about to pay his price.... >>
Can he take a lesson from the Clintons?
<< <i>
<< <i>He's about to pay his price.... >>
Can he take a lesson from the Clintons? >>
Looks like he probably did, although he didn't say "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" Sounds like the lesson he took, was just shut up and admit it and don't look like a bigger jerk than you are.
<< <i>Hmmmm, when it comes to prostitutes, the slabbed ones are cheaper than the raw ones. >>
Time to make this thread go *poof*:
<< <i>And when they can do that to someone as powerful as him, what are anybody else's chances in the world? >>
Who is "they"? The POS did it to himself.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>And when they can do that to someone as powerful as him, what are anybody else's chances in the world? >>
Who is "they"? The POS did it to himself. >>
I guess if you fail to read beyond the salacious headlines, you might hold such an opinion.
Ignorance is bliss.
<< <i>
<< <i>And when they can do that to someone as powerful as him, what are anybody else's chances in the world? >>
Who is "they"? The POS did it to himself. >>
It was the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy ®.
<< <i>And when they can do that to someone as powerful as him, what are anybody else's chances in the world? >> >>
<< <i>I guess if you fail to read beyond the salacious headlines, you might hold such an opinion. you might hold such an opinion.
Ignorance is bliss. >>
Are you kidding me, this guy was caught moving around money in the banking system in the State of New York! After 9/11 so many banking rules and laws were changed HE apparently was blissfully ignorant or maybe only book smart (because he had a perfect SAT score and that impresses some)since HE was Attorney General and prosecuted these type crimes involving money and prostitutes.
You just see that 'D' next to a politicians name and have a knee-jerk reaction that it must be the big bad Federal government after him.
Gives us a break! He is and has been a repeat "John" and got what he deserved. Hopefully now he is prosecuted.
Is that Ben and Jerry on that coin?
Proud recipient of two "You Suck" awards