does this have the potential to turn bad?

mozeppa · February 22, 2008 11:48PM

I'm running some auctions on the bay...
one of them is my 1990 no-S proof...this morning I get a ebay email that shows up in "my ebay".
Its from a guy that has 329 feed backs...100% positive...buys some coins ...some stamps...and other un-related stuff.

his message goes like this:

Wow you're selling this cheap! I didn't expect to hit reserve with my xxxx bid.
I just want to confirm that you don't take credit cards or anything of the like.
I will have to get money out of my 401K to pay cash for this which might take me a couple weeks, would that be OK?
I prefer to use an escrow service and/or pay cash in person due to the amount of the bid.
I have one of these already and want another one.

I adjusted my bid down quickly after I placed it so as not to ruin your auction but if we can come to terms on all this, I will raise it again closer to the auction end.

I told him that paying in cash is fine...that i'm in indianapolis...and that the exchange would have to be done at a secure place.

I'm not easily tricked by anyone into anything like a close quarters robbery or other such crap. (mr. smith will be with me as well mr. wesson and they can only speak 3 words each.)

anyone have a scenario for me?

mozeppa · February 22, 2008 11:56PM

also i forgot to mention...when he adjusted his bid back down so that it would show as "reserve not met"

he adjusted so that he is still the high bidder.

could he be on the level?

jdillane · February 22, 2008 11:59PM

wow....tapping the 401k for a poss newp!?!?!?!? Seems like he's got the jones baaad!

I have suggested escrow myself but only when I have dabbled with low fb sellers.

TennesseeDave · February 23, 2008 12:01AM

How about a link to the auction.If I were going to meet a total stranger to do a multi-thousand$ deal,I would want to do it in a Police station.

291fifth · February 23, 2008 12:02AM

You should cancel his bid and block him immediately.

mozeppa · February 23, 2008 12:22AM

<< You should cancel his bid and block him immediately. >>

care to say why?

rgCoinGuy · February 23, 2008 12:30AM

As long as waiting a couple weeks is OK, I would just address, through the ebay messaging system, the terms you will agree to (ie. I will be paid within a maximum of 3 weeks, done via however should you win this auction.) An escrow service may be a good way to go, but make sure that it is one you pick out and check out thoroughly. As far as in person, I would almost recommend meeting him at one of your bank branches, but not the main one you normally do business at. This should eliminate completely the possibility of it taking 2 weeks for him to print the money himself

, as you can deposit it directly into your account, and a bank is a nice public place with plenty of cameras, and the feeling of security. One more thing, make sure the feedback you mentioned is recent, and not a hijacked account. Good luck. Rob

291fifth · February 23, 2008 12:40AM

<< 

<< You should cancel his bid and block him immediately. >>

care to say why? >>

Red flags everywhere. The fact that he "bid fished" your reserve amount should be all you need to know about his ethical standards.

TomB · February 23, 2008 12:44AM

I guess it has the potential to turn out badly, but it might also be fine. As an example, several years ago I noticed a coin on ebay that I could not buy outright with the funds I currently had available, so I sent the seller an email asking if they would hold the coin for me for approximately four months in the event that their reserve was not met during the auction. The seller agreed and at the end of the auction I sent him two personal checks; one check for half of the value of the coin that he could cash immediately and one check for the other half of the value of the coin that I requested he cash in four months. He cashed neither until four months had elapsed and then cashed both and sent the coin to me. We were both very happy with the transaction.

ricko · February 23, 2008 12:44AM

Run.... Cheers, RickO

BBN · February 23, 2008 3:03AM

wow and tap his 401k. Does he not realize in the end how much he'll pay for the coin after the early withdrawal penalty, taxes and future lost interest? WOW

streeter · February 23, 2008 3:38AM

looks to me like he is beginning to establish his rules in YOUR auction. When does it stop?

Ricko said it best.

Zoins · February 23, 2008 3:42AM

<< does this have the potential to turn bad? >>

Yes.

jessewvu · February 23, 2008 3:51AM

I would think that any bidder that genuinely wanted the coin, they wouldn't need to lower their bid as to not "ruin" the auction. What good did he do for either of you by lowering his bid? If I really wanted a coin, I would put in a max bid and walk away, knowing that if I got the coin at the max bid price, I would be happy. If not, it just wasn't meant to be. I certainly wouldn't lower the bid and then send a weird email to the buyer. This could be a hijacked account.

But then again, there are people out there that will pay anything to have something now.

Good luck

Coinlearner · February 23, 2008 4:09AM

I would cancel, block, and save all e-mails (for any later "misunderstandings") from this one. I would not stray from Bay guidelines or Paypal protection for what they are worth. Since you posted, something is telling you, something is not right. I would wait for someone "next in line" that does not raise red flags.

WinPitcher · February 23, 2008 4:13AM

Reserve fishing like mentioned is a big no no.

How does he expect to win this thing now?

ohhh he wants you to sell it offline?

I wouldn't block him, I'd tell him to re read the auction the terms are there.

Steve

Barndog · February 23, 2008 4:15AM

when it smells bad, it usually is. I'd cancel his bids, block him, and be happy when someone else meets the reserve. Reserve-fishers suck.

fc · February 23, 2008 4:29AM

when it comes to ebay any feeling that gives you the willies should
be more then enough reason to play it safe and allow someone else
to win the coin.. and pay you promptly as you have described in the
auction.

i would email him and politely say you would rather not deal with him
in that manner. explain your payment types you accept and ask him
to follow your rules.

if he gives you lip in any sort of fashion block/ban/ and run.

ModernDollarNut · February 23, 2008 4:32AM

Guys, help me understand why you're so negative on this bidder.

Reserve fishing is not an approved technique but is it so dastardly that an eager bidder who admits to it in seeming innocence should be blocked?

Hammer price is the lower of reserve or the next increment over the second highest bid: how does reserve fishing alter the final bid unless there is only one other bidder over reserve? If someone really wants an item, is he/she going to chance losing it to someone who bid at reserve or just over it?

I sell Ikes on the Bay, often with only one or two bidders duking it out so I don't use reserves but set an opening bid at close to my valuation of wholesale price. When I sell items that should attract more than a couple of bidders, I start at $.99 and let the thing run, never set a reserve.

For me, reserves are a turn-off to the point that I would not blame a bidder for reserve fishing which to me is no different than emailing a seller and asking what the reserve is which I have done on several occasions, usually with that information being provided. Rob

mozeppa · February 23, 2008 4:34AM

wow!

its a moot point now...another bidder just blew him out of the water.

jessewvu · February 23, 2008 4:35AM

got a link to the auction

mozeppa · February 23, 2008 4:37AM

sure...here tis.........

WinPitcher · February 23, 2008 4:38AM

Modern Dollar nut

Reserve fishing is bad because a person has an advantage over other bidders and one has to retract a bid.

You are right the proper way to do it is simply by emailing and asking.

Steve

BBN · February 23, 2008 5:41AM

<< Guys, help me understand why you're so negative on this bidder.

Reserve fishing is not an approved technique but is it so dastardly that an eager bidder who admits to it in seeming innocence should be blocked?

Hammer price is the lower of reserve or the next increment over the second highest bid: how does reserve fishing alter the final bid unless there is only one other bidder over reserve? If someone really wants an item, is he/she going to chance losing it to someone who bid at reserve or just over it?

I sell Ikes on the Bay, often with only one or two bidders duking it out so I don't use reserves but set an opening bid at close to my valuation of wholesale price. When I sell items that should attract more than a couple of bidders, I start at $.99 and let the thing run, never set a reserve.

For me, reserves are a turn-off to the point that I would not blame a bidder for reserve fishing which to me is no different than emailing a seller and asking what the reserve is which I have done on several occasions, usually with that information being provided. Rob >>

I have no problem with the bidder. It's just his method he wants to pay is stupid money. He'll be paying out alot more than final price if he taps the 401k.

Connecticoin · February 23, 2008 6:04AM

<< sure...here tis......... >>

Bid retraction and cancellation history

Bidder Action / Explanation Date of Bid and Retraction
d***c( 329) Retracted: US $7,000.00
Explanation: Entered wrong amount Bid: Feb-23-08 05:42:11 PST
Retracted: Feb-23-08 05:52:03 PST

"Entered wrong amount" my ass!!

ModernDollarNut · February 23, 2008 6:25AM

"I have no problem with the bidder. It's just his method he wants to pay is stupid money. He'll be paying out alot more than final price if he taps the 401k." >>

Agree! Rob

ModernDollarNut · February 23, 2008 6:36AM

<< Modern Dollar nut

Reserve fishing is bad because a person has an advantage over other bidders and one has to retract a bid.

You are right the proper way to do it is simply by emailing and asking.

Steve >>

Steve, thanks. I dunno, just can't seem to get too worked up about this particular instance. If a bidder had a pattern of bid retraction, I would not be happy whether I was using reserves or not. But I would venture that eBay monitors bid retractions and deals with violators who pass a certain threshold.

As to gaining an advantage by knowing the reserve in a particular auction, I think any perceived advantage is a mirage.

Enough, appreciate your point of view and we're much more in agreement than disagreement in general. Rob

BBN · February 23, 2008 6:37AM

<< "I have no problem with the bidder. It's just his method he wants to pay is stupid money. He'll be paying out alot more than final price if he taps the 401k." >>

Agree! Rob >>

Yeah, I mean. Let's just hypothetically say it ends at 7k. I don't know how much it's worth, but let's pretend it's worth $8k. If he taps the 401k he'll have to draw a total of $10k just to cover the penalty and taxes to pay 7,000. Then you factor in the years of compounding interest to $10k that he'll lose. The maket isn't going to be bearish forever. It will recover and he'll start to miss out on all of that compounding interest which will cost him alot more in the long run than early penalties and taxes. If he wants it bad enough he's almost better off using a credit card or getting a home equity loan so to not mess with the 401k. I agree with another poster. He has a bad case of the Joneses.

ModernDollarNut · February 23, 2008 6:39AM

<< 

<< sure...here tis......... >>

Bid retraction and cancellation history

Bidder Action / Explanation Date of Bid and Retraction
d***c( 329) Retracted: US $7,000.00
Explanation: Entered wrong amount Bid: Feb-23-08 05:42:11 PST
Retracted: Feb-23-08 05:52:03 PST

"Entered wrong amount" my ass!!

>>

Ah, but he did precisely that. He entered wrong amount. The question is whether he did it purposefully, LOL... Rob

TWQG · February 23, 2008 6:41AM

Run.

<< mr. smith will be with me as well mr. wesson and they can only speak 3 words each. >>

--My buddie 'chum' has a vocabulary of 15 words, sometimes 16

itsnotjustme · February 23, 2008 6:47AM

I would cancel his bid and block him.

<< Does he not realize in the end how much he'll pay for the coin after the early withdrawal penalty, taxes and future lost interest? >>

BBN - You assume he is not of retirement age and drawing from his 401K already.

itsnotjustme · February 23, 2008 6:50AM

Notice he retracted a $7000 bid and put back $6,888.

I presume you had a reserve of $7,000. If this ended below reserve, he would have been highest bidder and asked to buy it at the amount his bid was driven up to, not the full $7,000.

zzzz · February 23, 2008 6:59AM

I see nothing wrong
The bidder bid on the coin
He then retracted the bid knowing it was going to take a couple weeks to get money out of his 401K
The bidder then emails seller to see if waiting a couple weeks is ok with seller (better ask now than after end of auction ... but would have been better still if asked before bidding)

We will see when auction ends if he was serious or was reserve fishing

Until then I, as of know I see nothing wrong ...

BlindedByEgo · February 23, 2008 7:05AM

It seems that these days every auction on Ebay has the potential to turn bad. That being said, I'd much rather have a potential buyer who communicates versus one who doesn't. Why not ask for his phone number and talk with him one-on-one? Respectfully and without malice, Keith.

BBN · February 23, 2008 7:24AM

<< I would cancel his bid and block him.

<< Does he not realize in the end how much he'll pay for the coin after the early withdrawal penalty, taxes and future lost interest? >>

BBN - You assume he is not of retirement age and drawing from his 401K already. >>

you are absolutey right. He may be very wealthy and of retirement age. I certainly hope so because if not he's not retired he isn't using any clarity.

lol reminds me of something my father in law's wife said to us a few months ago. The wife and I told her we are saving for the next 5 years for a down payment on a bigger house. His wife then breaks in with her hillbilly logic and tells my wife "wha don't ya just cash in yer 401 kigh"

Yeah ok, my wife draining out every dollar she's saved in ten years on her job! She would be guaranteed to work until she's 75. duhhh! My father in law's wife isn't exactly a sharp blade.

MrEureka · February 23, 2008 7:35AM

The fact that he "bid fished" your reserve amount should be all you need to know about his ethical standards.

Considering that he could have started with a low bid and incrementally raised it until he found the reserve, I see no reason to consider this bidder's alternative approach unethical. On the other hand, he does seem a bit flaky and could get cold feet if he wins the auction. If it were my auction, I'd give the bidder the benefit of the doubt. Worst thing that can happen is the coin will need to be relisted.

As for the security risk of delivering in person, I wouldn't worry about that so much either. If the bidder was looking to steal the coin at gunpoint, he wouldn't need an extra couple of weeks to pull money out of a 401K. Instead, he would offer to pay for the coin the day after the auction. But meeting in a public space is always a good idea.

mozeppa · February 23, 2008 7:36AM

does this have the potential to turn bad?

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