need help with definition of "Mint State"

silvermonger · February 21, 2008 2:58PM

Im kind of new at this coin stuff so maybe you can help.
What is, the definition of "Mint State"? Isn't mint state the same as uncirculated?
If so, how can Trade Dollars that took a trip to China and received a couple chop marks from local money traders and then made a trip back to the US be called Mint State?
That coin obviously _circulated_ , all around the world in fact and yet it can be graded MS?
What dont I understand about this deal?
Thanks to more experienced collectors for any enlightenment.

Type2 · February 21, 2008 3:33PM

This is what thr red book says.

Griv · February 21, 2008 3:37PM

Were you asking about Mint State or Mint Mental State. Believe me these are certainly polar discussions.

How many Mint employees does it take to make a Mint error?

ALL OF THEM.

BlindedByEgo · February 21, 2008 3:46PM

If a bag were sent to China back in the 1800's and chopmarked without circulating, I could see it happening.

So long as a coin shows no visible rub or other evidence of circulation, it can (and is) considered "mint state". Some may even argue that there have been coins which 1st tier grading companies have declared "mint state" that display detectable rub. This, however, is just a rumor, and little further comment should be made.

Deadhorse · February 21, 2008 3:54PM

<< So long as a coin shows no visible rub or other evidence of circulation, it can (and is) considered "mint state". Some may even argue that there have been coins which 1st tier grading companies have declared "mint state" that display detectable rub. This, however, is just a rumor, and little further comment should be made.

>>

I'm sure you must be confusing this with a weak strike, such that the high points on the coin which may appear to many as rub or wear simply weren't there to begin with as the strike never raised them in the first place, right?

Overdate · February 21, 2008 5:10PM

Pennsylvania, Colorado, California and New York.

Zoins · February 21, 2008 5:19PM

<< That coin obviously _circulated_ , all around the world in fact and yet it can be graded MS? >>

Chop marks are considered "market acceptable." As for grading a circulated coin MS, that's called "market grading." So a chopmarked coin may be graded MS through a combination of market acceptability and market grading. Knowing what is considered market acceptable and market grading are very useful skills.

BECOKA · February 21, 2008 5:28PM

If the coins always stayed in bags and never made it into someone's pocket to create the friction necessary for the rub that would make it AU then by definition it is still mint state.

i.e. there is no rub on the high points and the fields show lots of luster and very few hairlines compared to an AU coin.

It is entirely possible that the coins sat in registers or vaults after being checked for silver authenticity with chop marks.

silvermonger · February 21, 2008 5:39PM

<< If a bag were sent to China back in the 1800's and chopmarked without circulating, I could see it happening. >>

chopmarked without circulating????? they had to have been out in commerce for a chinese merchant or moneychanger to have defaced them! The purpose of the chopmark was to give evidence the coin was from a bag of a 1000 that had been sampled, weighed and assayed at less once and the next person to take the coin in trade would not have to wonder if it was real. The chinese would no longer accept our 3/4oz dollars so the full oz Trade dollar had to be minted to compete with Spanish dollars. The chinese were always suspicious of foreign money thats why they "certified" the coins themselves. The US MINT did not chopmark the dollars. Chinese merchants and bankers did, so by definition they were circulating.
By some minor miracle some of those dollars may have made it back to the US in superb condition but how can they can be called uncirculated or mint state? I suppose the fact that the last canvas bags of unc silver dollars left the mint a 40+ years ago and have been handed back and forth beween banks and roll dealers and collectors while remaining relatively unspoiled would constitute a kind of circulation as well and yet we think nothing of such a coin being called unc. I wonder if I stamp my seal of approval on a brill unc 1881s Morgan I can get PCGS to slab it?

droopyd · February 21, 2008 6:55PM

<< Pennsylvania, Colorado, California and New York. >>

and formerly north carolina, georgia, louisiana and nevada.

trivia: where was the only u.s. branch mint established outside the continental u.s.? (hint: mint mark was "m".)

unspendable · February 21, 2008 6:59PM

I would say in the condition they were when they left the mint....

darktone · February 21, 2008 9:08PM

"mint state" is a term used for a coins grade and while were at so is the term "uncirculated". A very common misconception among coin collectors seem to be that these terms have the meaning that the coins is just as it left the mint or it never actually saw circulation- just remember that these terms mean the grade of the coin and not it's actual history.

dorkkarl · February 21, 2008 9:11PM

that a coin "grades" mint state does'nt mean it IS mint state, but rather that it LOOKS mint state

ie, you can get "uncirculated" coins out of circulation so long as they are indistinguishable from coins that never did circulate

it is a bad term but numismatics was stuck w/ it long ago

what's really weird is when "mint state" is used to describe things that have never seen the inside of a mint, such as cars, books, computer monitors, you name it.

K S

PerryHall · February 21, 2008 9:13PM

Mint State = Uncirculated = No wear

Let's not make this complicated.

ambro51 · February 21, 2008 10:45PM

Let's not make this complicated.

The complicated part is when you break down MS into ten seperate numeric designations.

And further break those ten down into seperate designations, BN RB RD DMPL FB etc etc

But as long as each has accepted and well known definitions, its all for the best.

moonshine · February 21, 2008 11:38PM

<< Some may even argue that there have been coins which 1st tier grading companies have declared "mint state" that display detectable rub. This, however, is just a rumor, and little further comment should be made. >>

ahem, 1st tier grading companies are not God - thus to err is human.

ricko · February 21, 2008 11:59PM

Mint state reflects the condition of the coin...... no one can guarantee the 'circulation or non-circulation' unless they purchased it directly from the mint themselves and held it. Cheers, RickO

Zoins · February 22, 2008 12:44AM

<< Some may even argue that there have been coins which 1st tier grading companies have declared "mint state" that display detectable rub. This, however, is just a rumor, and little further comment should be made. >>

This rumor has been confirmed in the ANA Grading Guide, 6th Edition.

Bear · February 22, 2008 1:45AM

Peppermint, spearmint, double mint ?

Overdate · February 22, 2008 1:54AM

trivia: where was the only u.s. branch mint established outside the continental u.s.? (hint: mint mark was "m".)

Manila?

Overdate · February 22, 2008 1:59AM

The chinese would no longer accept our 3/4oz dollars so the full oz Trade dollar had to be minted to compete with Spanish dollars.

According to the Red Book, the trade dollar was less than a full ounce. It had around 2% more silver than a Liberty Seated or Morgan dollar.

need help with definition of "Mint State"

Comments

Leave a Comment

need help with definition of &quot;Mint State&quot;

Comments

Leave a Comment

need help with definition of "Mint State"