DLRC Has Purchased PCI...

Tyler1924S · February 21, 2008 4:47PM

PCI will continue, now under the ownership of David Lawrence Rare Coins. They are, of course, being relocated to Virginia. According to the letter (dated February 12, but just posted on the website tonight), they will be returning to the more conservative grading standards of the Hallmark & green label PCI era. They will continue with the current slab, but with a new label design. They may also continue the "Signature Series", or something similar to it.

PCI Under New Ownership

Unknown · February 21, 2008 4:51PM

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seatedcoins · February 21, 2008 4:57PM

Can anyone talk of the reputation of John Feigenbaum and David Lawrence Coins?

Moki · February 21, 2008 4:58PM

If they can realize the objectives outlined in the letter, then it sounds like a good thing and I wish them success.

Deadhorse · February 21, 2008 5:09PM

<< Can anyone talk of the reputation of John Feigenbaum and David Lawrence Coins? >>

Generally PQ coins for the grade, IMO. Having said that, quality isn't cheap.

If you're looking for a bargain or a cherrypick, I'd look elsewhere.

BECOKA · February 21, 2008 5:30PM

I believe David Lawrence is doing quite well and if he can establish a standard similar to PCGS over time ANACS might have some serious competition.

They don't have to slab a billion modern coins to be successful. If they start off slow and are accurately conservative all will be good.

nutz4coinz · February 21, 2008 5:38PM

Will these be CAC eligible???????????????? THAT is the question.....

droopyd · February 21, 2008 5:41PM

<< They don't have to slab a billion modern coins to be successful. If they start off slow and are accurately conservative all will be good. >>

If a company could stick to grading non-moderns and non-bullion, they have a possibility of successfully developing a niche and ultimately being considered at least on par on those items that they do grade as compared with those companies that devote most of their resources to grading moderns and bullion.

No registry sets, no first strike designations, just honest grading.

howards · February 21, 2008 6:00PM

<< Can anyone talk of the reputation of John Feigenbaum and David Lawrence Coins? >>

I have purchased a few coins from them, and I have been very satisfied with the coins and the service I received.
At all times, they made me feel like a valued customer.

Zoins · February 21, 2008 6:14PM

This sounds like good news for PCI.

seatedcoins · February 21, 2008 6:39PM

In general I think competition is good for the marketplace. I would hope that high standards would be maintained.

greghansen · February 21, 2008 7:42PM

One of the principal barriers to achieving significant market share within the coin slabbing business is 'general market acceptance in the coin community' of the finished product. IMO, this barrier cannot be overcome with an expenditure of capital alone, but instead can only slowly be overcome with a consistently graded product that equals or exceeds the major players product. The lack of consistency, as slabbing companies come under different ownership, or even as graders come and go, is a major detriment to a new company trying to achieve acceptance in the community. I think any new company hoping to eventually compete with PCGS & NGC would be well served to put together complete grading sets of all the major series they are going to grade and to make sure...at least initially...that two sets of grading eyes agree on the final grade to be given to any coin. I wish them luck...but recent history of those trying to challenge the dominance of the major plays does not make me optimistic.

ksteelheader · February 21, 2008 8:34PM

I buy from and sell to DLRC. They are honest and very reliable.

SeaEagleCoins · February 21, 2008 8:57PM

<< One of the principal barriers to achieving significant market share within the coin slabbing business is 'general market acceptance in the coin community' of the finished product. IMO, this barrier cannot be overcome with an expenditure of capital alone, but instead can only slowly be overcome with a consistently graded product that equals or exceeds the major players product. The lack of consistency, as slabbing companies come under different ownership, or even as graders come and go, is a major detriment to a new company trying to achieve acceptance in the community. I think any new company hoping to eventually compete with PCGS & NGC would be well served to put together complete grading sets of all the major series they are going to grade and to make sure...at least initially...that two sets of grading eyes agree on the final grade to be given to any coin. I wish them luck...but recent history of those trying to challenge the dominance of the major plays does not make me optimistic. >>

I, too, am not optimistic...

The primary obstacle is this...

The marketplace presently regards PCGS (and NGC) to be the top players...coins in their holders receive a significant premium over the others...

Whenever I hear someone assess coins in ANACS or ICG holders, it is almost always along the lines of "This will cross" or "This will not cross"...

Even if the "new" PCI can (re)develop and maintain a conservative and consistant grading standard, I predict that most coins that end up in their holder, that are solid or PQ, will be crossed to PCGS (or NGC) in order to receive the premium those holders receive in the marketplace...

How can PCI or any other service get premium coins into their holders and KEEP THEM THERE???

That is the big hump they need to get over in order to truly succeed...IMHO...

coinkat · February 21, 2008 8:59PM

is there going to be a PCI Registry?

astrorat · February 21, 2008 9:03PM

DLRC is a good firm with a decent reputation. I generally don't trade with them, but they have nice coins at fair prices and have the reputation of being honorable folks. With that said, PCI's reputation is in need of significant repair. Whenever a brand is tainted in the marketplace, it takes a near heroic effort to bring it back. I hope DLRC can do it and boost PCI's reputation to be equal that of DLRC.

Displacing PCGS or NGC as one of the top two will be like bumping Coke or Pepsi. Even denting ICG or ANACS will be a struggle.

Lane

dorkkarl · February 21, 2008 9:15PM

oh goody. the co. that told us for years in full page advertisments that auctions were a horrible place to sell coins - suddenly became a auction co. themselves. so lemme guess ... won't be long before "pci" coins show up in dlrc auctions, correct?

of course, it would not be a conflict of interest to slab your own coins, then sell them in your own auction venue.

K S

chiefbob · February 21, 2008 9:39PM

I'm a customer of DLRC since 2003 and have never had a problem with them. Very courteous, helpful, and with a lot of integrity.
Here's my latest purchase from them (not in a PCI holder, though

)

Barry · February 21, 2008 9:46PM

If DLRC wanted to start a grading service, I think they would have a better shot starting from scratch, rather than using an existing service, whose name, in my opinion, is tarnished for life.

LeeG · February 21, 2008 10:00PM

I have made several purchases from DLRC with no problems. I've actually visited their old offices as they are in my home town. Wish them well in this venture. Competition is a good thing.

RYK · February 21, 2008 10:09PM

I am not optimistic about the future of PCI (with or without DLRC). DLRC does not typically offer coins that interest me, so win, lose, or draw, this looks like a non-event for me.

ebaytrader · February 21, 2008 10:11PM

<< If DLRC wanted to start a grading service, I think they would have a better shot starting from scratch, rather than using an existing service, whose name, in my opinion, is tarnished for life. >>

They would be smart to change the name back to Hallmark (I believe the name was one of the assets acquired) and grade very conservatively making the slabbing an adjunct to their primary business. A strong guarantee is a must. Get their holders accepted by the major auction houses. Stay away from bulk grading. They'll grow it simply as a backlash against the big 2. (At least that was our plan

)

RYK · February 21, 2008 10:14PM

Oh, and a coin dealership, which is also an auctioneer and in the grading business, will soon bring up all the questions about conflicts of interest. After all, why should DLRC get a pass for owning and operating PCI, while JA was raked over the coals for starting the CAC?

291fifth · February 21, 2008 10:20PM

If the new owner can get eBay to accept their holders they have a good chance of success. If eBay refuses to accept them they will fail. I have to believe the new owners intend to take the steps necessary to gain eBay acceptance.

There is room in the market for a low priced slab that handles mostly lower priced coins and is acceptable to eBay.

I would expect to see some specialty market marketing actions as well. The "Signature" series would seem appropriate here.

DLRC didn't make this purchase to lose money. I expect to see them make some smart marketing moves and find their place in the slabbing world.

Mark · February 21, 2008 10:27PM

As ebaytrader implicitly points out, I wonder why DLRC wants to keep the PCI name. I think that name has some negative baggage with it. I could be wrong about that, however. And I also don't know how expensive it would be to change the name--for instance, would the slab shells need to be redone. But I do wonder why DLRC wants to retain the company's PCI name.

goose3 · February 21, 2008 10:30PM

<< If DLRC wanted to start a grading service, I think they would have a better shot starting from scratch, rather than using an existing service, whose name, in my opinion, is tarnished for life. >>

Bullseye.

ColonialCoinUnion · February 21, 2008 10:31PM

<< 

<< If DLRC wanted to start a grading service, I think they would have a better shot starting from scratch, rather than using an existing service, whose name, in my opinion, is tarnished for life. >>

Bullseye. >>

I'm guessing that the folks at DLRC are smart enough to have considered that as well and evidently came to a different conclusion.

Coinosaurus · February 21, 2008 11:01PM

One other point, they may have bought the PCI assets for next to nothing (not sure if the winning bid was revealed or not?)

Fairlaneman · February 21, 2008 11:05PM

A few years back some NGC slabbed coins were sent to them and they really did not want to buy the coins because at the time they sold almost only PCGS graded coins. A few months later they started to have NGC coins on the Web Site and entered that part of the selling field. Now it looks as though, possibly, the self slabber part of the selling field is their intention.

Progress I guess.

Ken

goose3 · February 21, 2008 11:06PM

<< Oh, and a coin dealership, which is also an auctioneer and in the grading business, will soon bring up all the questions about conflicts of interest. After all, why should DLRC get a pass for owning and operating PCI, while JA was raked over the coals for starting the CAC? >>

some very excellent points.

Smittys · February 21, 2008 11:28PM

I don't understand why they don't change the name, figuring out which slab label is the good one just opens the
door for the old slabs to mix in the market, Call it PCI-DLRC then you bypass this...jmo

ebaytrader · February 21, 2008 11:33PM

<< One other point, they may have bought the PCI assets for next to nothing (not sure if the winning bid was revealed or not?) >>

We spoke with Brian's widow and her representative shortly after Brian's death and long prior to the scheduled auction and long prior to their effective banishment from feebay. She blew us away with her asking price. We didn't see a reason to pursue the matter from there.

zeus135 · February 21, 2008 11:52PM

Quite an interesting business plan here. I feel it will make or break DL. I can't wait to see how it turns out, good luck to David Lawrence. I've bought coins from them in the past, all were pleasant experiences.

airedale · February 21, 2008 11:59PM

I wonder if the rights to the lawsuit with PNG, ANA and eBay went along with the sale? That could turn out to be a bonanza.

ColonialCoinUnion · February 22, 2008 12:00AM

<< I feel it will make or break DL. >>

How can you possibly conclude that?

TwoSides2aCoin · February 22, 2008 12:08AM

I personally feel that it's a brilliant business decision for DLRC, if true. There is nothing wrong with a little competition in this business.

... Orville and Wilbur were probably not taken seriously, until they got off the ground.

Lakesammman · February 22, 2008 12:12AM

Not sure why you would by a company like PCI. The barrier to entry can't be all that great and you would have a chance to start with a fresh name, free of baggage.

How would you value the PCI name?

fc · February 22, 2008 12:40AM

this just goes to show how i do not understand them as dealers.
seems it would have been easier to start from scratch then to buy PCI's assets.

TwoSides2aCoin · February 22, 2008 12:48AM

<< Not sure why you would by a company like PCI. The barrier to entry can't be all that great and you would have a chance to start with a fresh name, free of baggage.

How would you value the PCI name? >>

I bought two gold half eagles that crossed at PCGS. They were purchased off of eBay.
I bought two half eagles graded by NGC that were returned by PCGS and were DNC'd . Neither of them crossed and I ended up selling them for less money than I originally paid because I believe in full disclosure at the point of sell.
I dont' disagree that certain hills need to be climbed, but... A company is as good as the integrity of those who run it.

ziggy29 · February 22, 2008 12:50AM

The important thing here for the marketplace is that if they do reinstitute more conservative standards, the slab labels need to be distinguishable from those of the rampant overgrading days.

RichieURich · February 22, 2008 12:53AM

I've dealt with DLRC and IMO the company represents its coins fairly and has high integrity. John Feigenbaum is an astute businessman and I'm sure he already has a business plan for PCI that he believes will be successful. He has stated his vision for PCI in the press release, and it seems to make sense. Time will tell if the plan is successful, but I wish DLRC good luck!

direwolf1972 · February 22, 2008 1:21AM

<< If DLRC wanted to start a grading service, I think they would have a better shot starting from scratch, rather than using an existing service, whose name, in my opinion, is tarnished for life. >>

I agree. Why didnt they just buy the company out. Use all the equipment and change their name?

messydesk · February 22, 2008 1:25AM

Larry Briggs has a lot of respect as a numismatist and grader. Maybe he should have bought PCI and leveraged that respect to make it a reputable grading service again. (Oh, what's that? He already has a grading service?)

WaterSport · February 22, 2008 1:30AM

I think this outstanding news for both DLRC and the collecting community. This will be an intersting thread to revisit in about three years.

WS

DennisH · February 22, 2008 1:41AM

I've bought a few coins per year for many years from DLRC and have always been impressed by their superb customer service and fast shipping. The website's quality and ease-of-use is excellent as well. As others have already stated, their prices aren't low – but neither is the quality of their coins.

I'm mystified as to why a top-notch dealer would want to own a grading company whose market image is... um, spotty, but I'm sure there's a great deal more to the story than meets the eye here. In other words, I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing even if I don't.

Bear · February 22, 2008 1:43AM

This may be good news. Time will tell.

wayneherndon · February 22, 2008 1:45AM

I wonder if the rights to the lawsuit with PNG, ANA and eBay went along with the sale? That could turn out to be a bonanza.

John, John and Win at DLRC are PNG members. They are also ANA members and have (IMO) no interest in proceeding against that organization. So, if DLRC acquired the legal claims, I would venture that at least the PNG and ANA claims would be dropped shortly.

The guys at DLRC are a great group of people and I wish them the best with their new venture. They do have an uphill marketing battle to re-image this enterprise.

WH

TwoSides2aCoin · February 22, 2008 1:51AM

<< I'm mystified as to why a top-notch dealer would want to own a grading company whose market image is... um, spotty, but I'm sure there's a great deal more to the story than meets the eye here. In other words, I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing even if I don't. >>

I'd rather see DLRC/"fig" have it than a foreign interest...We've given up enough of our AMERICAN foothold, don't you think ? Chinese fakes polluting eBay... eBay losing it's hold in Numismatics ... it's a big mess all around. How many people still buy coins from television ?

It's a huge world outside of here and it makes me happy to see the new owner is not some guy who cooks Mandarin style and says "Happy Enjoy" when he gives you your lunch on a styrofoam plate.

I , for one, am trying to see a bigger picture.

jfoot13 · February 22, 2008 2:09AM

I would venture to guess with a going concern the mailing list of PCI , the insertion of banners and links on the PCI website and the curosity factor will generate a ton of new traffic for DLRC.... If the grading is accepted as on spot it dosen't matter if the company ( PCI ) makes money or not ... The revenue generated for DLRC will more than compensate for the purchase... and if it dosen't make money it's a nice tax deduction..... lot's of upside....

but hey I'm just a country boy who collects warnickels, don't know anything about this big business stuff...

Russ · February 22, 2008 2:13AM

<< PCI is one of the oldest grading companies in numismatics. Originally founded around 1988, the company was named Hallmark >>

They probably should have done a little more research before publishing their press release.

Russ, NCNE

TwoSides2aCoin · February 22, 2008 2:15AM

<< 

<< PCI is one of the oldest grading companies in numismatics. Originally founded around 1988, the company was named Hallmark >>

They probably should have done a little more research before publishing their press release.

Russ, NCNE >>

ooops

They should have checked with you

DLRC Has Purchased PCI...

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