DLRC Has Purchased PCI...

Tyler1924S

PCI will continue, now under the ownership of David Lawrence Rare Coins. They are, of course, being relocated to Virginia. According to the letter (dated February 12, but just posted on the website tonight), they will be returning to the more conservative grading standards of the Hallmark & green label PCI era. They will continue with the current slab, but with a new label design. They may also continue the "Signature Series", or something similar to it.

PCI Under New Ownership

Unknown

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seatedcoins

Can anyone talk of the reputation of John Feigenbaum and David Lawrence Coins?

Moki

If they can realize the objectives outlined in the letter, then it sounds like a good thing and I wish them success.

Deadhorse

<< <i>Can anyone talk of the reputation of John Feigenbaum and David Lawrence Coins? >>



Generally PQ coins for the grade, IMO. Having said that, quality isn't cheap.

If you're looking for a bargain or a cherrypick, I'd look elsewhere.

BECOKA

I believe David Lawrence is doing quite well and if he can establish a standard similar to PCGS over time ANACS might have some serious competition.

They don't have to slab a billion modern coins to be successful. If they start off slow and are accurately conservative all will be good.

nutz4coinz

Will these be CAC eligible???????????????? THAT is the question.....

droopyd

<< <i>They don't have to slab a billion modern coins to be successful. If they start off slow and are accurately conservative all will be good. >>



If a company could stick to grading non-moderns and non-bullion, they have a possibility of successfully developing a niche and ultimately being considered at least on par on those items that they do grade as compared with those companies that devote most of their resources to grading moderns and bullion.

No registry sets, no first strike designations, just honest grading.

howards

<< <i>Can anyone talk of the reputation of John Feigenbaum and David Lawrence Coins? >>



I have purchased a few coins from them, and I have been very satisfied with the coins and the service I received.
At all times, they made me feel like a valued customer.

Zoins

This sounds like good news for PCI.

seatedcoins

In general I think competition is good for the marketplace. I would hope that high standards would be maintained.

greghansen

One of the principal barriers to achieving significant market share within the coin slabbing business is 'general market acceptance in the coin community' of the finished product. IMO, this barrier cannot be overcome with an expenditure of capital alone, but instead can only slowly be overcome with a consistently graded product that equals or exceeds the major players product. The lack of consistency, as slabbing companies come under different ownership, or even as graders come and go, is a major detriment to a new company trying to achieve acceptance in the community. I think any new company hoping to eventually compete with PCGS & NGC would be well served to put together complete grading sets of all the major series they are going to grade and to make sure...at least initially...that two sets of grading eyes agree on the final grade to be given to any coin. I wish them luck...but recent history of those trying to challenge the dominance of the major plays does not make me optimistic.

ksteelheader

I buy from and sell to DLRC. They are honest and very reliable.

SeaEagleCoins

<< <i>One of the principal barriers to achieving significant market share within the coin slabbing business is 'general market acceptance in the coin community' of the finished product. IMO, this barrier cannot be overcome with an expenditure of capital alone, but instead can only slowly be overcome with a consistently graded product that equals or exceeds the major players product. The lack of consistency, as slabbing companies come under different ownership, or even as graders come and go, is a major detriment to a new company trying to achieve acceptance in the community. I think any new company hoping to eventually compete with PCGS & NGC would be well served to put together complete grading sets of all the major series they are going to grade and to make sure...at least initially...that two sets of grading eyes agree on the final grade to be given to any coin. I wish them luck...but recent history of those trying to challenge the dominance of the major plays does not make me optimistic. >>




I, too, am not optimistic...

The primary obstacle is this...

The marketplace presently regards PCGS (and NGC) to be the top players...coins in their holders receive a significant premium over the others...

Whenever I hear someone assess coins in ANACS or ICG holders, it is almost always along the lines of "This will cross" or "This will not cross"...

Even if the "new" PCI can (re)develop and maintain a conservative and consistant grading standard, I predict that most coins that end up in their holder, that are solid or PQ, will be crossed to PCGS (or NGC) in order to receive the premium those holders receive in the marketplace...

How can PCI or any other service get premium coins into their holders and KEEP THEM THERE???

That is the big hump they need to get over in order to truly succeed...IMHO...

coinkat

is there going to be a PCI Registry?

astrorat

DLRC is a good firm with a decent reputation. I generally don't trade with them, but they have nice coins at fair prices and have the reputation of being honorable folks. With that said, PCI's reputation is in need of significant repair. Whenever a brand is tainted in the marketplace, it takes a near heroic effort to bring it back. I hope DLRC can do it and boost PCI's reputation to be equal that of DLRC.

Displacing PCGS or NGC as one of the top two will be like bumping Coke or Pepsi. Even denting ICG or ANACS will be a struggle.

Lane

dorkkarl

oh goody. the co. that told us for years in full page advertisments that auctions were a horrible place to sell coins - suddenly became a auction co. themselves. so lemme guess ... won't be long before "pci" coins show up in dlrc auctions, correct?

of course, it would not be a conflict of interest to slab your own coins, then sell them in your own auction venue.

K S

chiefbob

I'm a customer of DLRC since 2003 and have never had a problem with them. Very courteous, helpful, and with a lot of integrity.
Here's my latest purchase from them (not in a PCI holder, though )

Barry

If DLRC wanted to start a grading service, I think they would have a better shot starting from scratch, rather than using an existing service, whose name, in my opinion, is tarnished for life.

LeeG

I have made several purchases from DLRC with no problems. I've actually visited their old offices as they are in my home town. Wish them well in this venture. Competition is a good thing.

RYK

I am not optimistic about the future of PCI (with or without DLRC). DLRC does not typically offer coins that interest me, so win, lose, or draw, this looks like a non-event for me.

ebaytrader

<< <i>If DLRC wanted to start a grading service, I think they would have a better shot starting from scratch, rather than using an existing service, whose name, in my opinion, is tarnished for life. >>




They would be smart to change the name back to Hallmark (I believe the name was one of the assets acquired) and grade very conservatively making the slabbing an adjunct to their primary business. A strong guarantee is a must. Get their holders accepted by the major auction houses. Stay away from bulk grading. They'll grow it simply as a backlash against the big 2. (At least that was our plan )

RYK

Oh, and a coin dealership, which is also an auctioneer and in the grading business, will soon bring up all the questions about conflicts of interest. After all, why should DLRC get a pass for owning and operating PCI, while JA was raked over the coals for starting the CAC?

291fifth

If the new owner can get eBay to accept their holders they have a good chance of success. If eBay refuses to accept them they will fail. I have to believe the new owners intend to take the steps necessary to gain eBay acceptance.

There is room in the market for a low priced slab that handles mostly lower priced coins and is acceptable to eBay.

I would expect to see some specialty market marketing actions as well. The "Signature" series would seem appropriate here.

DLRC didn't make this purchase to lose money. I expect to see them make some smart marketing moves and find their place in the slabbing world.

Mark

As ebaytrader implicitly points out, I wonder why DLRC wants to keep the PCI name. I think that name has some negative baggage with it. I could be wrong about that, however. And I also don't know how expensive it would be to change the name--for instance, would the slab shells need to be redone. But I do wonder why DLRC wants to retain the company's PCI name.

goose3

<< <i>If DLRC wanted to start a grading service, I think they would have a better shot starting from scratch, rather than using an existing service, whose name, in my opinion, is tarnished for life. >>




Bullseye.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>

<< <i>If DLRC wanted to start a grading service, I think they would have a better shot starting from scratch, rather than using an existing service, whose name, in my opinion, is tarnished for life. >>



Bullseye. >>



I'm guessing that the folks at DLRC are smart enough to have considered that as well and evidently came to a different conclusion.

Coinosaurus

One other point, they may have bought the PCI assets for next to nothing (not sure if the winning bid was revealed or not?)

Fairlaneman

A few years back some NGC slabbed coins were sent to them and they really did not want to buy the coins because at the time they sold almost only PCGS graded coins. A few months later they started to have NGC coins on the Web Site and entered that part of the selling field. Now it looks as though, possibly, the self slabber part of the selling field is their intention.

Progress I guess.

Ken

goose3

<< <i>Oh, and a coin dealership, which is also an auctioneer and in the grading business, will soon bring up all the questions about conflicts of interest. After all, why should DLRC get a pass for owning and operating PCI, while JA was raked over the coals for starting the CAC? >>



some very excellent points.

Smittys

I don't understand why they don't change the name, figuring out which slab label is the good one just opens the
door for the old slabs to mix in the market, Call it PCI-DLRC then you bypass this...jmo

ebaytrader

<< <i>One other point, they may have bought the PCI assets for next to nothing (not sure if the winning bid was revealed or not?) >>



We spoke with Brian's widow and her representative shortly after Brian's death and long prior to the scheduled auction and long prior to their effective banishment from feebay. She blew us away with her asking price. We didn't see a reason to pursue the matter from there.

zeus135

Quite an interesting business plan here. I feel it will make or break DL. I can't wait to see how it turns out, good luck to David Lawrence. I've bought coins from them in the past, all were pleasant experiences.

airedale

I wonder if the rights to the lawsuit with PNG, ANA and eBay went along with the sale? That could turn out to be a bonanza.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>I feel it will make or break DL. >>



How can you possibly conclude that?

TwoSides2aCoin

I personally feel that it's a brilliant business decision for DLRC, if true. There is nothing wrong with a little competition in this business.

... Orville and Wilbur were probably not taken seriously, until they got off the ground.

Lakesammman

Not sure why you would by a company like PCI. The barrier to entry can't be all that great and you would have a chance to start with a fresh name, free of baggage.

How would you value the PCI name?

fc

this just goes to show how i do not understand them as dealers.
seems it would have been easier to start from scratch then to buy PCI's assets.

TwoSides2aCoin

<< <i>Not sure why you would by a company like PCI. The barrier to entry can't be all that great and you would have a chance to start with a fresh name, free of baggage.

How would you value the PCI name? >>


I bought two gold half eagles that crossed at PCGS. They were purchased off of eBay.
I bought two half eagles graded by NGC that were returned by PCGS and were DNC'd . Neither of them crossed and I ended up selling them for less money than I originally paid because I believe in full disclosure at the point of sell.
I dont' disagree that certain hills need to be climbed, but... A company is as good as the integrity of those who run it.

ziggy29

The important thing here for the marketplace is that if they do reinstitute more conservative standards, the slab labels need to be distinguishable from those of the rampant overgrading days.

RichieURich

I've dealt with DLRC and IMO the company represents its coins fairly and has high integrity. John Feigenbaum is an astute businessman and I'm sure he already has a business plan for PCI that he believes will be successful. He has stated his vision for PCI in the press release, and it seems to make sense. Time will tell if the plan is successful, but I wish DLRC good luck!

direwolf1972

<< <i>If DLRC wanted to start a grading service, I think they would have a better shot starting from scratch, rather than using an existing service, whose name, in my opinion, is tarnished for life. >>



I agree. Why didnt they just buy the company out. Use all the equipment and change their name?

messydesk

Larry Briggs has a lot of respect as a numismatist and grader. Maybe he should have bought PCI and leveraged that respect to make it a reputable grading service again. (Oh, what's that? He already has a grading service?)

WaterSport

I think this outstanding news for both DLRC and the collecting community. This will be an intersting thread to revisit in about three years.

WS

DennisH

I've bought a few coins per year for many years from DLRC and have always been impressed by their superb customer service and fast shipping. The website's quality and ease-of-use is excellent as well. As others have already stated, their prices aren't low – but neither is the quality of their coins.

I'm mystified as to why a top-notch dealer would want to own a grading company whose market image is... um, spotty, but I'm sure there's a great deal more to the story than meets the eye here. In other words, I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing even if I don't.

Bear

This may be good news. Time will tell.

wayneherndon

I wonder if the rights to the lawsuit with PNG, ANA and eBay went along with the sale? That could turn out to be a bonanza.

John, John and Win at DLRC are PNG members. They are also ANA members and have (IMO) no interest in proceeding against that organization. So, if DLRC acquired the legal claims, I would venture that at least the PNG and ANA claims would be dropped shortly.

The guys at DLRC are a great group of people and I wish them the best with their new venture. They do have an uphill marketing battle to re-image this enterprise.

WH

TwoSides2aCoin

<< <i>I'm mystified as to why a top-notch dealer would want to own a grading company whose market image is... um, spotty, but I'm sure there's a great deal more to the story than meets the eye here. In other words, I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing even if I don't. >>



I'd rather see DLRC/"fig" have it than a foreign interest...We've given up enough of our AMERICAN foothold, don't you think ? Chinese fakes polluting eBay... eBay losing it's hold in Numismatics ... it's a big mess all around. How many people still buy coins from television ? It's a huge world outside of here and it makes me happy to see the new owner is not some guy who cooks Mandarin style and says "Happy Enjoy" when he gives you your lunch on a styrofoam plate.

I , for one, am trying to see a bigger picture.

jfoot13

I would venture to guess with a going concern the mailing list of PCI , the insertion of banners and links on the PCI website and the curosity factor will generate a ton of new traffic for DLRC.... If the grading is accepted as on spot it dosen't matter if the company ( PCI ) makes money or not ... The revenue generated for DLRC will more than compensate for the purchase... and if it dosen't make money it's a nice tax deduction..... lot's of upside....

but hey I'm just a country boy who collects warnickels, don't know anything about this big business stuff...

Russ

<< <i>PCI is one of the oldest grading companies in numismatics. Originally founded around 1988, the company was named Hallmark >>



They probably should have done a little more research before publishing their press release.

Russ, NCNE

TwoSides2aCoin

<< <i>

<< <i>PCI is one of the oldest grading companies in numismatics. Originally founded around 1988, the company was named Hallmark >>



They probably should have done a little more research before publishing their press release.

Russ, NCNE >>



ooops
They should have checked with you