Should I be Insulted by BM Coin Shop?

1955doubledie · February 21, 2008 12:17AM

I live in a small county in which there are no coin shops. I was going to a larger county on business that has a couple of coin shops so I decided to mix business and a little pleasure. I took in a TPG box 12 Early Commemoratives mostly MS-67. I also thru in my box a 1914/3 Buffalo Nickel NGC MS-64 just to see what they would pay for them. You see my son is 16 and getting ready to turn 17 in a couple of months so my wife and I would like to get him a truck. So I walked into the Coin Shop and they said hello and some of the people recognized me from coming in their shop to look for MS-67 Buffalo Nickels. One gentleman asked if he could help me and I said,yes I have some Early Commemoratives and I was wondering if you were interested in buying them. He went thru them in about 15 seconds and then he saw my 1914/3 NGC MS-64 Buffalo Nickel and asked what I wanted for it. I said you tell me ! He immediately recognized the coin from a coin show from 2006. He went on line to a Superior Galleries Archive and came back and said $2,400.00. He said that is what the coin sold for and asked if I was the person that bought the coin at the Superior Auction. I said No i bought it later in early 2007.

Now the coin has a retail value of between 12,000 and 14,000. Should I be insulted that they wanted to pay me the same amount as was paid in an auction in 2006? I would expect to be paid a book or wholesale value. Maybe I should cherrypick there case with my lap-top computer and say hey you only paid this 2 years ago at auction and thats all I will pay you and see how they like it.

Just a warning in my opinion if you are collecting TPG coins they are using the certification numbers now to track and value your coins by what was paid in the past? I don't think this is wright. Should I be insulted or what?

Thanks,
1955doubledie

MadMarty · February 21, 2008 12:20AM

No, they can offer whatever they want... You DON'T have to accept. Most small B&Ms do not deal in high end stuff, if they bought it, they would turn and burn it or ship it off to auction.

Now if you saw a high end dealer at a show and they offered you that, then I would be insulted.

BTW, did it have a sticker?

Smittys · February 21, 2008 12:21AM

Sold For: † $12,650.00 Track this Item
1914/3 5C MS64 PCGS.
Lot 668 » Nickels » Buffalo Nickels
Service: PCGS
Grade: MS64
2007 September Long Beach, CA Signature Coin Auction 446
Auction Date: Sep 27, 2007
Bid Source: Internet

Should have gone in with this info

ahooka454 · February 21, 2008 12:22AM

I agree with Marty, but Id never go back to sell thats for sure. Sorry even 50% would be one thing but that offer was just stupid low.

1955doubledie · February 21, 2008 12:27AM

This is not such a small BM shop they go to most of the major coin shows. That is why I went to them. I to believe that most small shops do not deal in high grade coins so that is why I went to this place. I would have been better off selling coins for bullion like some people in their show room because they at least had spot prices to go by.

Thanks,
1955doubledie

rgCoinGuy · February 21, 2008 12:27AM

They may have just not known what it was really worth (as was previously stated). That may mean thats a good place to purchase from though! FWIW, that's gonna make for one heckuva nice first truck for your son!

Kelerag · February 21, 2008 12:27AM

No need to be offended...you asked him to price your coin. If he offered $20,000 would you say no , it`s only worth 12-14 K?

bstat1020 · February 21, 2008 12:30AM

I think you need to go to a high end dealer and not a local B&M shop for this coin. I would think you would have better luck on the BST forum than at a B&M shop.

ElKevvo · February 21, 2008 12:30AM

Yeah I gotta go with the 'They can offer whatever they like' crowd. I know it is frustrating to get a low ball bid especially in a hot market but folks are going to do that and hope they score. When I hear stories like this I think of how it must have affected all of the folks who bought coins from boiler shop operations that were way overgraded and way overpriced and they could not unload them for anywhere near what they paid.

On the good side, you got a low ball value but should be able to easily get much more somewhere else!

K

doh · February 21, 2008 12:32AM

I would have been a little offended, but it would have been the kind of offended where I would have laughed in the guys face. I mean, literally laughed at him and pointed out that I'm not some rube who doesn't know the value of my coins. I would get a big chuckle out of it and certainly wouldn't have left the shop mad.

fc · February 21, 2008 12:36AM

maybe he is beginning to think like i am, that just because a coin
sells for 5000 in 2007 and it sold for 1200 in 2006 that just maybe
it is really not worth 5000.

maybe, just maybe, the correct price point without a frenzy factor
is 1500-2000.

i dislike seeing prices jump for the same coin by a factor of 2-4 in
just a matter of a year or months. it is a total sign of over exuberance and i would not be willing to pay up.

for example, i had a 1859-S half eagle offered to me in vg08.
heritage shows it sold for ~800 in 2004ish and then again in 2006
for 1250. quite the increase eh?!?

i have no wish to turn around and offer the gentleman more then
he paid when i think he got all crazy and chased it. i think in this current
market the coin will sell for less then he paid if it went back onto heritage in the 1000-1100 range.

seriously, 12,000 for a nickel that sold for 2500 a few years back.
doesn't that make you stop and wonder what a more accurate price
for it may be? it does for me.

i have a feeling many are going to be disappointed soon that they
cannot get what they paid for coins they plan to sell. my two cents
on the market having already peaked except for the upper crust of
numismatics.

cupronik · February 21, 2008 12:40AM

Why would you set yourself up for disappointment and offer them a coin like the 14/3-P Buffalo 5c
in the first place? The best price to receive for the coin is from an auction by one of the respected
coin auction firms where the end (or near-end) user will purchase the coin.

By far, most of the B&M coin shops are simply not sophiscated enough (or shall I say "coin-saavy")
to willingly offer a true market competitive buy price for such a coin.

DeepCoin · February 21, 2008 12:41AM

Brick and Mortar shops only exist in order to low ball collectors. They can sell more coins with less cost at shows and on the internet and through auctions. You cannot make a living in B&M shop unless you make a killing on people walking through the door selling coins. This is particularly true of people who inherit. This is just how it is. The overhead of rent, heat, light..etc. is just too much unless you have some sort of cash cow. The other thing newbies have to be careful of with B&M is buying raw expensive coins, especially early coins. This is just MHO based upon many, many years of B&M experiences.

I will also say if you understand their business paradigm, you can work with them. Just dont ever try and sell high end coins. Often if you work with them, you can get first crack at coins coming out of collections and get a relative bargain as they want the quick profit. You just have to understand the landscape of how these shops make money.

Tyler1924S · February 21, 2008 12:51AM

Some 1914/3 sales from Teletrade (for what it's worth);

NGC 64 (FS-014.87) Sep 28, 2006 $5,000

ANACS 64 (FS-014.87) May 31, 2006 $5,600

ANACS 62 (FS-014.89) May 20, 2007 $2,150

NGC 62 (FS-014.89) Oct 2, 2005 $3,000

greghansen · February 21, 2008 12:53AM

I don't know why you would be insulted. He asked you what you wanted for it and you didn't have a price? If you knew what wanted for it, all you had to do was tell him. If, as you say, you only took it in because you were 'curious' and wanted to see what they would pay...now you know. Now you know that's not where your likely to get the most for that coin.

I like to bash crooked dealers as much as the next guy, but I don't see where throwing out a low ball offer on a coin where the owner won't tell the buyer how much he wants... is any kind of thing to get insulted about.

Oh, and I agree with all of this:

I will also say if you understand their business paradigm, you can work with them. Just dont ever try and sell high end coins. Often if you work with them, you can get first crack at coins coming out of collections and get a relative bargain as they want the quick profit. You just have to understand the landscape of how these shops make money.

ambro51 · February 21, 2008 12:56AM

Isnt it amazing how the internet and access to information has changed all this?

Years ago....the guy behind the counter was the expert and his word was law.

No more.

Just on a lark not too long ago I showed off a 1937 buffalo PCGS PR66CAM to one lady at the local sports/stamp/disney/teletubbie/coin shop.....she said "wow thats shiny!"

I told here between PCGS and NGC there were 16 cameo proof buffalo nickels. thats all.

I said, what do you think its worth, she offered me a gift certificate for $500.

ya could have heard me laughing from a block away.

claychaser · February 21, 2008 1:00AM

For choice coins like that, you should try some of the dealers who post on these boards, for an outright sale or consignment.

BigRed · February 21, 2008 1:05AM

I differ with my opinion, I would have been upset. You said they recognized you so are you saying you are a regular customer of thiers? I would have at least politely ask why such a low offer.

Unknown · February 21, 2008 1:09AM

This content has been removed.

Greeniejr · February 21, 2008 1:30AM

Instead of playing bash the dealer, lets take a different approach. He asked you what you wanted it, you decided to play games with him, he declined playing your game. You sent him the clear message of your intentions. You were just trying to get the dealer to offer too much so you could rip him. You knew that wasn't going to happen because he would err on the side of caution especially on a coin that is so specialized. You can't expect a dealer in the middle of nowhere to stretch on a condition rarity. Be realistic with expectations and cut the guy slack. You know what you want for the piece so ask for it. That way they know what you are thinking and can see if it is out of their range. But then again, that would take away any chance you have to cry to the boards about it.

fc · February 21, 2008 1:32AM

here is a fine question i suppose:

what did you want for the coin? more then you paid? the same as you paid? or less then you paid?

hmmm?

those teletrade numbers were rather eye opening in my opinion on a post above this one.
12,000 seems an extra-ordinary price for one of these coins!

ColonialCoinUnion · February 21, 2008 1:37AM

Unless the dealer is a specialist in Buffalo Nickels (possible), or has a ready customer to whom he can sell it, I would think this is a very tough coin to purchase for inventory.

eyoung429 · February 21, 2008 1:40AM

Maybe he was in a hurry and didn't notice the "1" that was supposed to go in front of the 2,650.............

1955doubledie · February 21, 2008 1:44AM

I am not playing bash the dealer. I did not and will not say who this High end Coin Shop Is. I am just reporting what my experience was and this is not your local antique/bennie-babie collector small time shop. Why should I have to tell him what I want for it. If I was a novice and said well I got this from my grandfather he would have played me for a fool. I am no fool. I said in my original thread i put in in my box to see what they would give me for it. I acted proffesional had him write the amount on back of his card. Looked at some coins in his case and then very quietly left the building. Yes I should probably sell at a auction. But since I was in the Big City with a well-known company I thought I might sell a few coins without all the hassle to buy my son a truck. I guess I will have to go to Auction. But I am not here to bash anyone. We all have our opinion.

Zoins · February 21, 2008 1:50AM

Knowledge is power.

It sounds like business as usual.

ahooka454 · February 21, 2008 1:50AM

Why auction and deal with sellers fees. Throw it on the BST. If someone is willing to pay, they will pay. You have a much better chance selling here than elsewhere.IMHO

fc · February 21, 2008 1:52AM

<< Knowledge is power. >>

but the last selling price where you bought the coin for much more then
anyone has paid for it in ?recent history? is not exactly knowledge.

taking an average of the last 5 sales over the last few years is using
the information in a more correct fashion.

getting buried in a coin, priceless.

Unknown · February 21, 2008 1:54AM

This content has been removed.

cartwheel · February 21, 2008 1:55AM

Yeah I gotta go with the 'They can offer whatever they like' crowd. Me, too. Just be glad you know what your coins were worth (i.e. that it wasn't your widow going in uninformed).

Cartwheel

Zoins · February 21, 2008 1:57AM

<< 

<< Knowledge is power. >>

but the last selling price where you bought the coin for much more then
anyone has paid for it in ?recent history? is not exactly knowledge.

taking an average of the last 5 sales over the last few years is using
the information in a more correct fashion. >>

The last selling price is knowledge, the last 5 sales are knowledge, high end collectors being in a market is knowledge. It's matter of whether you have enough and if you know how to interpret it to your advantage.

The seller may or may not have had more information than presented here.
The dealer may or may not have more information than presented here.

<< getting buried in a coin, priceless. >>

That's only priceless if the coin is exposed publicly on the boards

Greeniejr · February 21, 2008 2:04AM

<< 

<< 
He could have ;looked up grey sheet bid.
>>

Really? Please quote me what grey sheet bid is on this coin... I seemed to have misplaced my grey sheet that has this coin on it. Oh wait...

291fifth · February 21, 2008 2:08AM

If they can't steal it, they won't buy it. Offering items like that to coin shops is a mistake.

DrPete · February 21, 2008 2:10AM

Hi,

PM sent.

Good Luck!

WinPitcher · February 21, 2008 3:35AM

Of course they can offer whatever they feel like, but saying "since you paid 2, 400.00 for it how about that? Was insulting.

They could have just said we pay 2, 400.00 for them without the added BS.

JMO

Steve

Barndog · February 21, 2008 4:30AM

a counteroffer is always nice before feeling insulted.

ahooka454 · February 21, 2008 4:31AM

Thats a great point Barndog. The good ole counter offer. Whatever happened to that?

Coxe · February 21, 2008 4:33AM

<< If they can't steal it, they won't buy it. Offering items like that to coin shops is a mistake. >>

There is some truth in that. A lot of those places know they can get low margin stuff practically anywhere. They pay the rent with the widow's ignorance.

ksteelheader · February 21, 2008 4:36AM

<< maybe he is beginning to think like i am, that just because a coin
sells for 5000 in 2007 and it sold for 1200 in 2006 that just maybe
it is really not worth 5000.

maybe, just maybe, the correct price point without a frenzy factor
is 1500-2000.

i dislike seeing prices jump for the same coin by a factor of 2-4 in
just a matter of a year or months. it is a total sign of over exuberance and i would not be willing to pay up.

for example, i had a 1859-S half eagle offered to me in vg08.
heritage shows it sold for ~800 in 2004ish and then again in 2006
for 1250. quite the increase eh?!?

i have no wish to turn around and offer the gentleman more then
he paid when i think he got all crazy and chased it. i think in this current
market the coin will sell for less then he paid if it went back onto heritage in the 1000-1100 range.

seriously, 12,000 for a nickel that sold for 2500 a few years back.
doesn't that make you stop and wonder what a more accurate price
for it may be? it does for me.

i have a feeling many are going to be disappointed soon that they
cannot get what they paid for coins they plan to sell. my two cents
on the market having already peaked except for the upper crust of
numismatics. >>

How true!!

Russ · February 21, 2008 4:37AM

<< Now the coin has a retail value of between 12,000 and 14,000. Should I be insulted that they wanted to pay me the same amount as was paid in an auction in 2006? >>

This coin increased in value from $2400 to $12K in the span of a year?

Russ, NCNE

Unknown · February 21, 2008 4:41AM

This content has been removed.

WinPitcher · February 21, 2008 4:42AM

Russ

That coin has been valued all over the place since they discovered it about 8 yrs. ago.

2400.00 is the AU 58 PCGS quote in the guide.

It did not go up that much in the last yr.

If anything it went down a ton since first discovered.

Also you need a 10x loupe to even see the overdate and they have various
(not sure of the word) states? of overdateness?

lol

It is a nice coin if you collect varietys.

Steve

ksteelheader · February 21, 2008 4:42AM

<< Instead of playing bash the dealer, lets take a different approach. He asked you what you wanted it, you decided to play games with him, he declined playing your game. You sent him the clear message of your intentions. You were just trying to get the dealer to offer too much so you could rip him. You knew that wasn't going to happen because he would err on the side of caution especially on a coin that is so specialized. You can't expect a dealer in the middle of nowhere to stretch on a condition rarity. Be realistic with expectations and cut the guy slack. You know what you want for the piece so ask for it. That way they know what you are thinking and can see if it is out of their range. But then again, that would take away any chance you have to cry to the boards about it. >>

That's also the view from here.

WinPitcher · February 21, 2008 4:45AM

Geez Realone you are really quick today on correcting peoples grammar and math.

But then again besids whining about dealers that is about all you bring to the boards.

Whining, and baiting people.

This is a hit and run post, I will not go back and forth.

Steve

Barndog · February 21, 2008 4:45AM

max $ for specialist coins will NEVER come from a B&M. Go to a specialist dealer or a national auction, but we all know that already.

mrpotatoheadd · February 21, 2008 4:45AM

<< Wonder when Russ sells his coins for a big profit if he questions the time frame of his rips. >>

There's no question about the time frame. The op said "i bought it later in early 2007" and it is now early 2008. One year.

Russ · February 21, 2008 4:46AM

<< << Now the coin has a retail value of between 12,000 and 14,000. Should I be insulted that they wanted to pay me the same amount as was paid in an auction in 2006? >>

This coin increased in value from $2400 to $12K in the span of a year?

Russ, NCNE >>

Hmmm, one year huh, lets see 2006, and 2007, and now we are into 2008 albeit the beginning. Wonder when Russ sells his coins for a big profit if he questions the time frame of his rips. But then that is a sign of a hypocrite. But what does a dumbhillbilly like me know >>

Oh look, the village idiot has weighed in again.

BTW, village idiot, if you think long and hard about this, you'll figure out why this value disparity exists in this specific case. Oh hell, who am I kidding. You're too stupid to figure it out.

Russ, NCNE

Unknown · February 21, 2008 4:48AM

This content has been removed.

ksteelheader · February 21, 2008 4:49AM

<< 

<< << Now the coin has a retail value of between 12,000 and 14,000. Should I be insulted that they wanted to pay me the same amount as was paid in an auction in 2006? >>

This coin increased in value from $2400 to $12K in the span of a year?

Russ, NCNE >>

Hmmm, one year huh, lets see 2006, and 2007, and now we are into 2008 albeit the beginning. Wonder when Russ sells his coins for a big profit if he questions the time frame of his rips. But then that is a sign of a hypocrite. But what does a dumbhillbilly like me know >>

Oh look, the village idiot has weighed in again.

BTW, village idiot, if you think long and hard about this, you'll figure out why this value disparity exists in this specific case. Oh hell, who am I kidding. You're too stupid to figure it out.

Russ, NCNE >>

TomB · February 21, 2008 4:51AM

<< Why should I have to tell him what I want for it. >>

Regardless of whether or not you might be insulted by a particular offer, you should always know what you want, what you need and what you will accept for a coin when you are the party initiating the contact and transaction. There is no wiggle room in this unless you have inherited something that you have no idea as to its worth. Since this was not the case here, you are the party responsible for putting into play the first number.

ahooka454 · February 21, 2008 4:53AM

<<Oh look, the village idiot has weighed in again.

BTW, village idiot, if you think long and hard about this, you'll figure out why this value disparity exists in this specific case. Oh hell, who am I kidding. You're too stupid to figure it out.

Russ, NCNE >>

2manycoins2fewfunds · February 21, 2008 4:55AM

Your thread title is close to an oxymoron.

Should I be Insulted by BM Coin Shop?

Comments