I must agree. Whenever I bring coins into my local B&M, I know what I'm wanting to get out of the transaction... at least in some ballpark. If I have material that I put up on eBay and I need to get a certain amount of money out, I'll put a reserve on the item. Most of my auctions I run as "no-reserve" and let the market in general determine the price.
To get back to the OP's initial question... no I wouldn't be offended by such a low-ball price. No one is putting a gun to my head to accept it.
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
As suspected, Realone is too stupid to figure it out. In my never-ending quest to educate the ignoramouses of the world, I will shine the light of knowledge for the village idiot:
He quoted PCGS price guide for an NGC coin. An MS63 - one point down, which is how the market would view the NGC example - is $7K in the price guide. Add in the usual discount, and it's about a $5000 coin on a good day.
PCGS recognizes only one die variety of 14/13 overdate. Therefore their pops are very low for all grades of this variety. ANACS certifies several die varieties of this issue, some very clear (no loupe needed) to very slight (loupe is a necessity). NGC is somewhat more picky but not as much as PCGS. Clarity of the overdate is not limited to this issue, since the SLQ 18/17-S price structure is also impacted by the strength of the overdate.
I had an overdate that a blind man could see and could not get it into a PCGS holder (wrong die variety); however, it landed in an ANACS55 holder and placed in an auction where it sold for $1100. This same coin would have gone for twice as much if it were in a PCGS variety holder.
Those overdates that are early die states and easy to see, bring substatially higher prices. PCGS slabbed 14/13 overdates are very scarce and priced accordingly. Prices quoted at $12,000 for an NGC 64 are too high IMHO. But I agree that if the poster is serious about selling and is not just fishing for market value, should try BST or a national auction house. I would think that $3,000 to $4,000 or more would be in the ballpark if the overdate is clear. Who knows?
BM shops aren't the best way to go for a coin such as this, as has been said before.
That is correct I did not have a gun to my head! I took his offer it was not in my ballpark I was not mad. That is what he wanted to offer> He Lost. But I wonder now if he had bought it would it be in his case @ $3,000, $6,000 or $12,000. I'll never get to see because I was not a fool!
<< <i>Oh god, does anyone really care what this guy has to say?
Steve >>
Thought it would be a hit and run post Stevie. But, then again, since school is out for the day, I suppose you have little better to do today than quibble with your weak, sophomoric comments.
<< <i>As suspected, Realone is too stupid to figure it out. In my never-ending quest to educate the ignoramouses of the world, I will shine the light of knowledge for the village idiot:
He quoted PCGS price guide for an NGC coin. An MS63 - one point down, which is how the market would view the NGC example - is $7K in the price guide. Add in the usual discount, and it's about a $5000 coin on a good day.
Russ, NCNE >>
So that justifies a dealer offer of 2k NOT being considered a rip?
<< <i><< As suspected, Realone is too stupid to figure it out. In my never-ending quest to educate the ignoramouses of the world, I will shine the light of knowledge for the village idiot:
He quoted PCGS price guide for an NGC coin. An MS63 - one point down, which is how the market would view the NGC example - is $7K in the price guide. Add in the usual discount, and it's about a $5000 coin on a good day.
Russ, NCNE >>
So that justifies a dealer offer of 2k NOT being considered a rip? >>
You may want to consider a remedial reading course. I didn't say anything about the dealer's offer one way or the other.
Remember: What a coin dealer has priced is not what he/she will necessarily get. They buy at $2600 and price it at $4000. After six months and several shows, they drop it to $3200. When push comes to shove, they knock 10% off to seal the sale. That is a $280 profit.
I wouldn't worry about it....nothing to get your blood pressure up about. If you were on a stock exchange offering stock, bidders are at various levels. You just have to find the highest bidder.
"Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world." PBShelley
<< <i>Remember: What a coin dealer has priced is not what he/she will necessarily get. They buy at $2600 and price it at $4000. After six months and several shows, they drop it to $3200. When push comes to shove, they knock 10% off to seal the sale. That is a $280 profit.
Garrow >>
Gee, and my investment strategy is all wrong. Here I sit, the dummy that I am, thinking that a 10% return on my investment per year is good. I wish I could get a 10% return every 6 months as in your example! (and thats only if push comes to shove)
<< <i><< Remember: What a coin dealer has priced is not what he/she will necessarily get. They buy at $2600 and price it at $4000. After six months and several shows, they drop it to $3200. When push comes to shove, they knock 10% off to seal the sale. That is a $280 profit.
Garrow >>
Gee, and my investment strategy is all wrong. Here I sit, the dummy that I am, thinking that a 10% return on my investment per year is good. I wish I could get a 10% return every 6 months as in your example! >>
Would anybody like to point out why that response is incredibly ignorant?
<< <i><< Remember: What a coin dealer has priced is not what he/she will necessarily get. They buy at $2600 and price it at $4000. After six months and several shows, they drop it to $3200. When push comes to shove, they knock 10% off to seal the sale. That is a $280 profit.
Garrow >>
Gee, and my investment strategy is all wrong. Here I sit, the dummy that I am, thinking that a 10% return on my investment per year is good. I wish I could get a 10% return every 6 months as in your example! >>
Would anybody like to point out why that response is incredibly ignorant?
Bingo! Out of that 10% the dealer has to pay rent, utilities, insurance, marketing, taxes, salaries, etc. It isn't the same as earning 10% on a passive investment.
<< <i>I think the OP's biggest mistake is that he's going to buy his teenage son a truck. >>
Good point! A 15 year old Volvo is probably a better choice.
My only points to the OP have already been made:
1. When you are selling a coin, it is expected that you are able to formulate an offering price. 2. A brick-and-mortar coin shop, when compared to all sales outlets for an NGC MS-64 14/13 buffalo nickel, is probably the worst venue for selling (excluding pawn shops and flea markets).
<< <i>I wish I could get a 10% return every 6 months as in your example! >>
I could be wrong, but I do believe that's only a 10% return as long as you don't have any business expenses or pay any taxes. >>
First of all we all pay income tax. So thats negated for both the dealer and myself. Next, his overhead is probably not quite 25% of all profits, which is about what my income tax bracket will be when I start collecting on my investments. So how is my example so bad again?
<< <i><< I wish I could get a 10% return every 6 months as in your example! >>
I could be wrong, but I do believe that's only a 10% return as long as you don't have any business expenses or pay any taxes. >>
First of all we all pay income tax. So thats negated for both the dealer and myself. Next, his overhead is probably not quite 25% of all profits, which is about what my income tax bracket will be when I start collecting on my investments. So how is my example so bad again? >>
You really don't have a clue about business, do you?
<< <i><< I wish I could get a 10% return every 6 months as in your example! >>
I could be wrong, but I do believe that's only a 10% return as long as you don't have any business expenses or pay any taxes. >>
First of all we all pay income tax. So thats negated for both the dealer and myself. Next, his overhead is probably not quite 25% of all profits, which is about what my income tax bracket will be when I start collecting on my investments. So how is my example so bad again? >>
You really don't have a clue about business, do you?
Russ, NCNE >>
I know that business owners generally retire with ALOT more money than civil servants Russ. Maybe it has to do with that 10% return compounded every 6 months rather than every year?
<< <i>I wouldn't worry about it....nothing to get your blood pressure up about. If you were on a stock exchange offering stock, bidders are at various levels. You just have to find the highest bidder. >>
A very reasonable response and I agree, its just that I too have had B&M guys always try to take me to the cleaners when I was an unsuspecting newbee in the hobby and have never forgotten. When I was buying from them initially they sold me overgraded probelm raw coinage and after I realized what they did they either refused to buy it back or offered me 50% on the dollar. And I too was a very good customer. >>
Well then you went to the wrong dealer, plain and simple. There are many B&M dealers on these boards who treat people right and your gross generalizations based on a few stores is awful.
<< <i>First of all we all pay income tax. So thats negated for both the dealer and myself. >>
The taxes you pay are irrelevant. The dealer pays a tax on income, which will by necessity reduce his income on the deal.
<< <i>Next, his overhead is probably not quite 25% of all profits >>
For the sake of this discussion, the percentage of his profits which go towards overhead is also not relevant- that there are any at all will also lower his income on the deal.
<< <i>which is about what my income tax bracket will be when I start collecting on my investments. >>
Again, your tax situation is not relevant to this discussion.
<< <i> So how is my example so bad again? >>
Because you are considering the percentage that he makes on this deal based on the difference between what he buys and sells for, with no regard for his expenses.
<< <i>First of all we all pay income tax. So thats negated for both the dealer and myself. >>
The taxes you pay are irrelevant. The dealer pays a tax on income, which will by necessity reduce his income on the deal.
<< <i>Next, his overhead is probably not quite 25% of all profits >>
For the sake of this discussion, the percentage of his profits which go towards overhead is also not relevant- that there are any at all will also lower his income on the deal.
<< <i>which is about what my income tax bracket will be when I start collecting on my investments. >>
Again, your tax situation is not relevant to this discussion.
<< <i> So how is my example so bad again? >>
Because you are considering the percentage that he makes on this deal based on the difference between what he buys and sells for, with no regard for his expenses. >>
But do remember that all this discussion is about a 10% profit on a coin. Volume is the key here. If the dealer does this twice a week, he goes out of business. If he did this 400 times a week, he retires early. There comes a point at which sales volume, even at a "miniscule" profit margin greatly overcomes expenses.
Comments
That's a lot of money. ...... ...... and your presentation.....out of the wild blue yonder......was not worthy of the coin. Neither was his offer.
Did you actually expect him to make a competitive offer on the coin or were you trying for shock value?
Just wondering.......
To get back to the OP's initial question... no I wouldn't be offended by such a low-ball price. No one is putting a gun to my head to accept it.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Steve
He quoted PCGS price guide for an NGC coin. An MS63 - one point down, which is how the market would view the NGC example - is $7K in the price guide. Add in the usual discount, and it's about a $5000 coin on a good day.
Russ, NCNE
I had an overdate that a blind man could see and could not get it into a PCGS holder (wrong die variety); however, it landed in an ANACS55 holder and placed in an auction where it sold for $1100. This same coin would have gone for twice as much if it were in a PCGS variety holder.
Those overdates that are early die states and easy to see, bring substatially higher prices. PCGS slabbed 14/13 overdates are very scarce and priced accordingly. Prices quoted at $12,000 for an NGC 64 are too high IMHO. But I agree that if the poster is serious about selling and is not just fishing for market value, should try BST or a national auction house. I would think that $3,000 to $4,000 or more would be in the ballpark if the overdate is clear. Who knows?
BM shops aren't the best way to go for a coin such as this, as has been said before.
Garrow
<< <i>Oh god, does anyone really care what this guy has to say?
Steve >>
Thought it would be a hit and run post Stevie. But, then again, since school is out for the day, I suppose you have little better to do today than quibble with your weak, sophomoric comments.
<< <i>As suspected, Realone is too stupid to figure it out. In my never-ending quest to educate the ignoramouses of the world, I will shine the light of knowledge for the village idiot:
He quoted PCGS price guide for an NGC coin. An MS63 - one point down, which is how the market would view the NGC example - is $7K in the price guide. Add in the usual discount, and it's about a $5000 coin on a good day.
Russ, NCNE >>
So that justifies a dealer offer of 2k NOT being considered a rip?
<< <i><< As suspected, Realone is too stupid to figure it out. In my never-ending quest to educate the ignoramouses of the world, I will shine the light of knowledge for the village idiot:
He quoted PCGS price guide for an NGC coin. An MS63 - one point down, which is how the market would view the NGC example - is $7K in the price guide. Add in the usual discount, and it's about a $5000 coin on a good day.
Russ, NCNE >>
So that justifies a dealer offer of 2k NOT being considered a rip? >>
You may want to consider a remedial reading course. I didn't say anything about the dealer's offer one way or the other.
Russ, NCNE
Garrow
<< <i>Remember: What a coin dealer has priced is not what he/she will necessarily get. They buy at $2600 and price it at $4000. After six months and several shows, they drop it to $3200. When push comes to shove, they knock 10% off to seal the sale. That is a $280 profit.
Garrow >>
Gee, and my investment strategy is all wrong. Here I sit, the dummy that I am, thinking that a 10% return on my investment per year is good. I wish I could get a 10% return every 6 months as in your example! (and thats only if push comes to shove
<< <i><< Remember: What a coin dealer has priced is not what he/she will necessarily get. They buy at $2600 and price it at $4000. After six months and several shows, they drop it to $3200. When push comes to shove, they knock 10% off to seal the sale. That is a $280 profit.
Garrow >>
Gee, and my investment strategy is all wrong. Here I sit, the dummy that I am, thinking that a 10% return on my investment per year is good. I wish I could get a 10% return every 6 months as in your example! >>
Would anybody like to point out why that response is incredibly ignorant?
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Who cares about this nonsense? DId you create the AH? I really want to know damn it.
No I don't think he did, but he is working real hard on the dothead Kennedy!!!
<< <i>
<< <i><< Remember: What a coin dealer has priced is not what he/she will necessarily get. They buy at $2600 and price it at $4000. After six months and several shows, they drop it to $3200. When push comes to shove, they knock 10% off to seal the sale. That is a $280 profit.
Garrow >>
Gee, and my investment strategy is all wrong. Here I sit, the dummy that I am, thinking that a 10% return on my investment per year is good. I wish I could get a 10% return every 6 months as in your example! >>
Would anybody like to point out why that response is incredibly ignorant?
Russ, NCNE >>
Nah, it's all yours.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
<< <i>I wish I could get a 10% return every 6 months as in your example! >>
I could be wrong, but I do believe that's only a 10% return as long as you don't have any business expenses or pay any taxes.
<< <i>Because of overhead Russ? >>
Bingo! Out of that 10% the dealer has to pay rent, utilities, insurance, marketing, taxes, salaries, etc. It isn't the same as earning 10% on a passive investment.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>I think the OP's biggest mistake is that he's going to buy his teenage son a truck. >>
Good point! A 15 year old Volvo is probably a better choice.
My only points to the OP have already been made:
1. When you are selling a coin, it is expected that you are able to formulate an offering price.
2. A brick-and-mortar coin shop, when compared to all sales outlets for an NGC MS-64 14/13 buffalo nickel, is probably the worst venue for selling (excluding pawn shops and flea markets).
<< <i>Because of overhead Russ? >>
Don't listen to him, Russ spends 50% on hookers and ciggies!!
<< <i>
<< <i>I wish I could get a 10% return every 6 months as in your example! >>
I could be wrong, but I do believe that's only a 10% return as long as you don't have any business expenses or pay any taxes.
First of all we all pay income tax. So thats negated for both the dealer and myself. Next, his overhead is probably not quite 25% of all profits, which is about what my income tax bracket will be when I start collecting on my investments. So how is my example so bad again?
<< <i><< I wish I could get a 10% return every 6 months as in your example! >>
I could be wrong, but I do believe that's only a 10% return as long as you don't have any business expenses or pay any taxes. >>
First of all we all pay income tax. So thats negated for both the dealer and myself. Next, his overhead is probably not quite 25% of all profits, which is about what my income tax bracket will be when I start collecting on my investments. So how is my example so bad again? >>
You really don't have a clue about business, do you?
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i><< I wish I could get a 10% return every 6 months as in your example! >>
I could be wrong, but I do believe that's only a 10% return as long as you don't have any business expenses or pay any taxes. >>
First of all we all pay income tax. So thats negated for both the dealer and myself. Next, his overhead is probably not quite 25% of all profits, which is about what my income tax bracket will be when I start collecting on my investments. So how is my example so bad again? >>
You really don't have a clue about business, do you?
Russ, NCNE >>
I know that business owners generally retire with ALOT more money than civil servants Russ. Maybe it has to do with that 10% return compounded every 6 months rather than every year?
<< <i>
<< <i>I wouldn't worry about it....nothing to get your blood pressure up about. If you were on a stock exchange offering stock, bidders are at various levels. You just have to find the highest bidder. >>
A very reasonable response and I agree, its just that I too have had B&M guys always try to take me to the cleaners when I was an unsuspecting newbee in the hobby and have never forgotten. When I was buying from them initially they sold me overgraded probelm raw coinage and after I realized what they did they either refused to buy it back or offered me 50% on the dollar. And I too was a very good customer. >>
Well then you went to the wrong dealer, plain and simple. There are many B&M dealers on these boards who treat people right and your gross generalizations based on a few stores is awful.
Thanks for the reply on the 14/3
Steve
<< <i>First of all we all pay income tax. So thats negated for both the dealer and myself. >>
The taxes you pay are irrelevant. The dealer pays a tax on income, which will by necessity reduce his income on the deal.
<< <i>Next, his overhead is probably not quite 25% of all profits >>
For the sake of this discussion, the percentage of his profits which go towards overhead is also not relevant- that there are any at all will also lower his income on the deal.
<< <i>which is about what my income tax bracket will be when I start collecting on my investments. >>
Again, your tax situation is not relevant to this discussion.
<< <i> So how is my example so bad again? >>
Because you are considering the percentage that he makes on this deal based on the difference between what he buys and sells for, with no regard for his expenses.
I would rather not debate with a cement head.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>First of all we all pay income tax. So thats negated for both the dealer and myself. >>
The taxes you pay are irrelevant. The dealer pays a tax on income, which will by necessity reduce his income on the deal.
<< <i>Next, his overhead is probably not quite 25% of all profits >>
For the sake of this discussion, the percentage of his profits which go towards overhead is also not relevant- that there are any at all will also lower his income on the deal.
<< <i>which is about what my income tax bracket will be when I start collecting on my investments. >>
Again, your tax situation is not relevant to this discussion.
<< <i> So how is my example so bad again? >>
Because you are considering the percentage that he makes on this deal based on the difference between what he buys and sells for, with no regard for his expenses. >>
But do remember that all this discussion is about a 10% profit on a coin. Volume is the key here. If the dealer does this twice a week, he goes out of business. If he did this 400 times a week, he retires early. There comes a point at which sales volume, even at a "miniscule" profit margin greatly overcomes expenses.