How to tell a real straight clip from damage
seanq
Posts: 8,734 ✭✭✭✭✭
Both of these came as part of a recent trade, and are covered in more detail in other posts. Since the clips are so similar in outward appearance, I thought it might be instructive to show the two coins side by side to illustrate the difference between a true Mint error and post-mint damage.
The first things to notice are the design elements right next to the clip. On the 1912 they are weakly struck or non-existent, especially on the reverse. On the 1931-S the letters of PLURIBUS are strong right up to the edge of the clip, at minimum the tops of the letters should show metal flow down toward the edge. On the obverse, Abe's jacket is weakly struck next to the clip on the 1912, while on the '31-S it is unaffected.
Next look at the rim on either side of the clip (again, the reverse shows better in the scans). Notice the 1912 is not fully formed and tapers slightly toward the clip, while the 1931-S is fully formed right up to the edge. The obverse of the '31-S is actually deceiving because the coin was polished or whizzed, which smoothed the edge of the rim. However, you can see the metal looks like it is flowing in toward the center of the coin instead of out toward the clip. Finally notice the lack of any hint of Blakesley effect opposite the clip on the '31-S. The effect is weak on the '12 even in high grade but it is visible.
Here is another coin from the same group which shows the diagnostics of damage even better than the '31-S:
A few more things to notice on this coin - on the reverse the rim looks like it changes planes at K-7, a true straight clip should not suddenly change direction. There is also a hint of further rim damage to the right of the clip at K-6. Finally, while not pictured, the rim of this coin is completely flat with slight striations visible moving perpendicular to the rim, from one face of the coin to the other. A true straight clip should have a slightly beveled or concave rim, with any metal flow lines or striations running parallel along the edge of the coin.
There are a lot of coins in the market that look like the '39-D, and offered as Mint errors. Early on, I had to pull eight or nine coins out of my own set after being taught the lessons above by a more seasoned collector.
Sean Reynolds
The first things to notice are the design elements right next to the clip. On the 1912 they are weakly struck or non-existent, especially on the reverse. On the 1931-S the letters of PLURIBUS are strong right up to the edge of the clip, at minimum the tops of the letters should show metal flow down toward the edge. On the obverse, Abe's jacket is weakly struck next to the clip on the 1912, while on the '31-S it is unaffected.
Next look at the rim on either side of the clip (again, the reverse shows better in the scans). Notice the 1912 is not fully formed and tapers slightly toward the clip, while the 1931-S is fully formed right up to the edge. The obverse of the '31-S is actually deceiving because the coin was polished or whizzed, which smoothed the edge of the rim. However, you can see the metal looks like it is flowing in toward the center of the coin instead of out toward the clip. Finally notice the lack of any hint of Blakesley effect opposite the clip on the '31-S. The effect is weak on the '12 even in high grade but it is visible.
Here is another coin from the same group which shows the diagnostics of damage even better than the '31-S:
A few more things to notice on this coin - on the reverse the rim looks like it changes planes at K-7, a true straight clip should not suddenly change direction. There is also a hint of further rim damage to the right of the clip at K-6. Finally, while not pictured, the rim of this coin is completely flat with slight striations visible moving perpendicular to the rim, from one face of the coin to the other. A true straight clip should have a slightly beveled or concave rim, with any metal flow lines or striations running parallel along the edge of the coin.
There are a lot of coins in the market that look like the '39-D, and offered as Mint errors. Early on, I had to pull eight or nine coins out of my own set after being taught the lessons above by a more seasoned collector.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
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San Diego, CA
Who slabbed the 31-S??????
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<< <i>Who slabbed the 31-S?????? >>
ACGS
I've never heard of them, I started another thread to see if any of the plastic guys had.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
K S
Bumping this thread as a favor for a friend
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
how can you tell on a circulated coin when metal flow is hard to see?
I have a 1858 flying eagle that I am scratching my head on
Thanks for the post.
<< <i>Very educational.
Thanks for the post. >>
Amen to that !
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Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
I was a Monkey
<< <i>when did they start using the upsetting mill?
how can you tell on a circulated coin when metal flow is hard to see?
I have a 1858 flying eagle that I am scratching my head on >>
What a nice surprise to see this thread again. Even more surprising is that I never took down the pics.
sinin1: I have seen Blakesley effect on coins dating back to the very early 1800s, so the upsetting process was in place very early. An 1858 Fleagle could show a Blakesley effect but the lack of one isn't a sure sign of a fake. Post a pic of your coin to this thread and I'll see if I can authenticate it for you.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Great informaiton.
Garrow
Edit to add: Looking at the clip from edge-on is probably the best way to determine the authenticity of an incomplete planchet strike.
Rather then start a new thread, I always search for related thread that can answer my question or add some value the the existing thread. Besides, @seanq is the go-to guy for these.
I'm in the damage column for this. What do you think?
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Damage.
You can see how GOD is no longer on a circular path.
It has been distorted into a straight path by the impact (vise?) from the rim.
Yes - all damage.
Thank you gents!
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Just noticed I was tagged in this, and I agree with the others who posted that it is damage and not a straight clip.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Damaged is as damaged does
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