Experiment on Dipping/conserving Zinc Lincoln Cents
rgCoinGuy
Posts: 7,478 ✭
OK, here goes. I posted this last night and got a few different replies Forum Question . A lot of us have wondered what is right, and in the few replies I got (which I appreciated every one 
) there are at least three different opinions. Obviously, I do not want to risk doing anything to the coin in the thread, as it has pretty good value, and I bought it for a Dansco error collection I am working on. The coin in the thread looks nicer than the pictures in hand, but under a loop, there are some issues, which are properly brought up on the replies. SOOOOOO...... Experiment time. I went through my change holder and found some post 1982 cents to work with (all circulated). I hope to get some help from some of you on here on the four different dips I will be doing. The good news for readers is, the first one is already done, and I am actually amazed at the results of the coin in-hand. I will be updating this thread as time goes on with the results. All dips are done in a baby food jar with a lid. Pictures will follow in separate posts. Here are the Four experiments:
1) 1986 P Lincoln Memorial, dipped in 50% E Zest/50% Distilled water for approximately 3 minutes, then rinsed under a faucet, and finally rinsed in a separate baby food jar of distilled water. Patted dry with a white cotton towel gently, and allowed to airdry. Finally to see how it will keep its original look, put in a 2X2 after about an hour.
2) 1986 P Lincoln in Acetone
3) 1989 P in 70% Isopropyl alcohol
4) 1989 D in Mineral Spirits
All the coins are currently soaking, the #1 experiment is finished and pictures will follow shortly, I will do a post for each experiment, and update each one with any daily notations that I feel may be relevent. Any suggestions on the amount of time for numbers two through four are welcome. I will also retake pictures of experiment number one when all the other soaks are complete to see if there is any change in the color or toning at least up til then.
I am not a " coin doctor " - however, I do want my error Dansco album to look nice for my own personal viewing pleasure, and this is to see what can be done to that affect without hurting the coin in a negative way. And yes, I realize time may change how these turn out, and do not plan on actually doing anything with my DDR for a while to let the coins sit and see what happens. Any comments/thoughts are welcome and appreciated!
Rob
) there are at least three different opinions. Obviously, I do not want to risk doing anything to the coin in the thread, as it has pretty good value, and I bought it for a Dansco error collection I am working on. The coin in the thread looks nicer than the pictures in hand, but under a loop, there are some issues, which are properly brought up on the replies. SOOOOOO...... Experiment time. I went through my change holder and found some post 1982 cents to work with (all circulated). I hope to get some help from some of you on here on the four different dips I will be doing. The good news for readers is, the first one is already done, and I am actually amazed at the results of the coin in-hand. I will be updating this thread as time goes on with the results. All dips are done in a baby food jar with a lid. Pictures will follow in separate posts. Here are the Four experiments:1) 1986 P Lincoln Memorial, dipped in 50% E Zest/50% Distilled water for approximately 3 minutes, then rinsed under a faucet, and finally rinsed in a separate baby food jar of distilled water. Patted dry with a white cotton towel gently, and allowed to airdry. Finally to see how it will keep its original look, put in a 2X2 after about an hour.
2) 1986 P Lincoln in Acetone
3) 1989 P in 70% Isopropyl alcohol
4) 1989 D in Mineral Spirits
All the coins are currently soaking, the #1 experiment is finished and pictures will follow shortly, I will do a post for each experiment, and update each one with any daily notations that I feel may be relevent. Any suggestions on the amount of time for numbers two through four are welcome. I will also retake pictures of experiment number one when all the other soaks are complete to see if there is any change in the color or toning at least up til then.
I am not a " coin doctor " - however, I do want my error Dansco album to look nice for my own personal viewing pleasure, and this is to see what can be done to that affect without hurting the coin in a negative way. And yes, I realize time may change how these turn out, and do not plan on actually doing anything with my DDR for a while to let the coins sit and see what happens. Any comments/thoughts are welcome and appreciated!
Rob
Quid pro quo. Yes or no? 0
Comments
Leave cleaning copper to the pros.
Before
After
1-17-08 sitting in a cardboard/mylar 2X2
1-22-08 No change in appearance yet ( I know, everyone is saying it will take a few weeks) Keeping an eye on it and will update the picture in a month or so if I still don't notice any changes.
2-2-08 Still nothing visible change wise, moved the coin into a cardboard box and into the closet a couple days ago, as I do my other common lincolns for longer term storage. Will re-image after the first month for a closer look.
<< <i>I'm telling you right now... if you mess with copper you're going to ultimately be unhappy. It might look good for a couple weeks, but then it may very well begin to spot up. >>
I understand this, what I do not know MYSELF, is how true that is for each of the four scenarios I am proposing. I am not going to be messing with me DDR for quite a while, and I will update this thread a month or two down the line with updated results. I am using circulated coins, so the most I will be out is a grand total of 4 cents, and the amount of time this experiment takes. I do not see the negative in my experiment, I do not doubt the boards knowledge, but I also do not see the harm in putting that knowledge to the test. Rob
Before Pics
1-17-08 Soaking in Acetone
1-20-08 Removed Results so far
1-22-08 Back in the acetone - sat out for 2 days under a flip (got busy!)
2-6-08 Sat out last night under a 2x2. Current pictures:
After over 2 weeks, it appears this one is only getting worse. I think this may be too long to soak in acetone, as some of the spots appear to be taking on a silvery-toned type of color, and it looks like a lot of the original spots were probably carbon spots, which wouldn't come off anyway. Acetone as a treatment by itself, officially over for a coin this far gone, as far as I am concerned. Coin will go into a 2x2 to see what long term effects this may have.
<< <i>Good experiment..... and I applaud your methodology and willingness to share results. Cheers, RickO >>
Thank you very much!!!
I suggest mineral oil NOT mineral spirits.
My suggestion also needs the coin soaking in mineral oil for a minimum of about a month so fast results will not be possible.
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Before
1-17-08 Soaking in Isopropyl Alcohol
1-20-08 This one didn't do well at all, the 70% is definitely a no-go on isopropyl (as per another poster)
I would definitely not suggest this!!!
<< <i>Just for clarity,
I suggest mineral oil NOT mineral spirits.
My suggestion also needs the coin soaking in mineral oil for a minimum of about a month so fast results will not be possible. >>
Thank you for clarifying that for me, I screwed that one up, will get some mineral oil tomorrow and turn this into a 5 coin experiment. I am not looking for fast results, other than the quick dip on number one, but even that from everything everyone is saying, is actually a long experiment to see how the coin changes over time after the initial dip. Thanks again for the correction!!! Rob
<< <i>The only thing that I have found and have seen that works for copper is Acetone and soaking in olive oil. Dipping will just ruin copper no mater how fast you try to do it. >>
Acetone is one of my baths, I have a question for you on the olive oil ( I may have to expand to 6 baths!) I have read both Extra virgin olive oil, and that extra virgin doesn't work as well as regular olive oil, which one would you suggest? Both are available in the house already, so I can try either one.... Thanks,
Rob
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
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Before
1-17-08 Soaking in Mineral spirits
1-20-08 So far... I had this and the 1989 confused, and thought the mineral spirits ruined the other one, I this will be back in for more soaking just to see what happens.
1-22-08 This one is back soaking, sat for 2 days under a flip, we will see - There does seem to be something funky going on on the reverse around the bottom rim....
2-6-08 Took it out last night, rinsed for 45 seconds, dried under a light, had it sitting in a 2X2 overnight, here are the updated pics....
After over 2 weeks, this soak appears to be doing almost nothing for the coin, possibly lightening it up a little, I am going to go ahead and let this soak until the end of the month, since it doesn't seem to be making it worse or look unnatural, then holder it (in a 2x2) to see what happens long term. The big downside is it doesn't seem to be helping the trouble spots at all. Back in the babyfood jar for this one for now
Removed coin 3-6-08 and here is the final product
<< <i>
<< <i>Just for clarity,
I suggest mineral oil NOT mineral spirits.
My suggestion also needs the coin soaking in mineral oil for a minimum of about a month so fast results will not be possible. >>
Thank you for clarifying that for me, I screwed that one up, will get some mineral oil tomorrow and turn this into a 5 coin experiment. I am not looking for fast results, other than the quick dip on number one, but even that from everything everyone is saying, is actually a long experiment to see how the coin changes over time after the initial dip. Thanks again for the correction!!! Rob >>
Take a look HERE for an example of mineral oil conservation.
<< <i>I would use the regular olive oil. Also, this can take up several months depending on the issue with the coin. With some of the Cents you are posting, probably not quite that long. I have an FEC that has a little corrosion on the Rev. that I just put in last week that I will be checking once a month for results. Good luck on yours Coinguy! >>
Thank you!!! Before I even started this, I have a 1857 Flying eagle that is sitting in olive oil, I read the threads and at first had it in EVOO, then changed to regular olive oil after reading some posts on here. I am only trying to learn. This is all just a learning experience for me, and I hope maybe by actually learning and posting the experiment online, for some others too. Thanks again for your posts!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Just for clarity,
I suggest mineral oil NOT mineral spirits.
My suggestion also needs the coin soaking in mineral oil for a minimum of about a month so fast results will not be possible. >>
Thank you for clarifying that for me, I screwed that one up, will get some mineral oil tomorrow and turn this into a 5 coin experiment. I am not looking for fast results, other than the quick dip on number one, but even that from everything everyone is saying, is actually a long experiment to see how the coin changes over time after the initial dip. Thanks again for the correction!!! Rob >>
Take a look HERE for an example of mineral oil conservation. >>
I have only been on this forum a short period of time, and this is VERY informative to me, my wife already has this on the shopping list for tomorrow, thank you for sharing your link on here, any suggestions on how I should do this since I haven't started the mineral oil experiment yet I would appreciate, as well as anyone else who has any other ideas for zinc cent dips. Thanks for everyones responses so far, I am tuckered out for the night, so I will check back in in the morning. Thanks everyone!!!
If done quick and properly, the cent will come out an original light orange color and tone just like any new cent would.
Here's the results of my experiment with copper/clad and silver Ikes using EZest bran dipping solution Text
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BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
Looking forward to the after pic on the acetone.
<< <i>I soak the copper in white vinegar till the desired color etc., run under water till all traces of vinegar is gone and immediately put in acetone or alcohol to neutralize. This is only for coins with almost full luster.
If done quick and properly, the cent will come out an original light orange color and tone just like any new cent would.
How much time are we talking about soaking it in vinegar. Minutes, hours, or days?
2) 1986 P Lincoln in Acetone
3) 1989 P in 70% Isopropyl alcohol
4) 1989 D in Mineral Spirits
All the coins are currently soaking, the #1 experiment is finished and pictures will follow shortly, I will do a post for each experiment, and update each one with any daily notations that I feel may be relevent. Any suggestions on the amount of time for numbers two through four are welcome. I will also retake pictures of experiment number one when all the other soaks are complete to see if there is any change in the color or toning at least up til then.
I am not a " coin doctor " - however, I do want my error Dansco album to look nice for my own personal viewing pleasure, and this is to see what can be done to that affect without hurting the coin in a negative way. And yes, I realize time may change how these turn out, and do not plan on actually doing anything with my DDR for a while to let the coins sit and see what happens. Any comments/thoughts are welcome and appreciated!
Rob >>
You need to use 90 or 91% isopropyl alcohol. 70% has impurities.
David
Left too long the coin may lose some of its luster or discolor. Make absolutly sure when removed from the vinegar it gets under the water and into the acetone or alcohol immediatly. It can stay in the neutralizer any amount of time without worry. If the unneutralized copper is left in the air even after rinseing, it will start to tone almost immediately.
<< <i>The length of time will vary when using white vinegar on copper. On average about 1/2 to an hour depending what you are looking to remove, black spots, fingerprints etc.
Left too long the coin may lose some of its luster or discolor. Make absolutly sure when removed from the vinegar it gets under the water and into the acetone or alcohol immediatly. It can stay in the neutralizer any amount of time without worry. If the unneutralized copper is left in the air even after rinseing, it will start to tone almost immediately.
Thanks for the info, I have the supplies now to do the rest of the experiments, and will try to get on them in the next couple days. I have updated the first four experiments so far on their original posts. The 70% isopropyl, as was stated by another poster, was a bad, bad thing. I do have 91% for the next attempt. I will also be trying the white vinegar as well as the mineral oil, and olive oil soaks. looks like four more experiments. The containers have all been glass baby food jars so as not to add any other chemicals into the process. I am also trying to use coins that are as close to AU as possible, but also looking for a certain type of look (as close to the coin in my other post on the 1983 DDR as possible). Thanks again everyone for your responses and suggestions so far!
Rob
i've seen Mineral Spirits in the store, but where do you find just the Mineral Oil? They aren't the same thing, right?
<< <i>i've seen Mineral Spirits in the store, but where do you find just the Mineral Oil? They aren't the same thing, right? >>
Mineral oil is not the same thing, it is basically baby oil without the extra ingredients, and can be found by it in the grocery store.
by a multitude of factors from bubbling, to incomplete plating, to damage.
Perhaps one of the worst is having the plating scraped off the tops of the
letters on the reverse during the strike. This is especially prevalent when
the die is fresh and the strike is clean. Often it's above the "STA" in STATES.
It does happen in other areas and this seems to affect a lot of the gems of
some dates.
One has to suspect the long term outlook is poor for these coins. Learning
how to preserve them now might be important to future collectors.
1) Acetone is usually supplied as a fairly pure material, even in the hardware store cans. It's a great solvent for alot of contaminants and will not affect the metal. As long as you don't get water into the solution, I can't see it affecting the copper. Still, I wouldn't soak a copper coin in acetone for a long time. It does evaporate fast and the contaminants might become more concentrated. I don't know how hydroscopic it is, but I wouldn't want to leave a copper coin in acetone if it were to absorb water from the atmosphere. Acetone would be good as a final rinse, simply because it is supplied having low contaminant levels.
2) There are several types of Isopropyl Alcohol - some are various mixtures with a water component, and some are denatured. I would avoid any of them that have water as a component. Even the denatured ones consisting of 99% Isopropanol probably won't be as effective in removing contaminants from a coin as acetone will. The denatured Isopropanol formulations might include traces of products which aren't Q.C.'d for sulfur, so it could be a crapshoot, unless you are using food grade or FDA approved stuff.
3) Mineral Spirits is a mixture of aliphatic hydrocarbons that contains a different % of components depending upon which refinery supplied it and what types of crude oil were being run at the time. Some mineral spirits have a lower sulfur specification than others, which means that you might be introducing a reactive contaminant to the coin which will in fact cause corrosion spots, especially on copper. An "odorless mineral spirits" would probably have the least amount of sulfur in general. Mineral spirits isn't particularly good or bad in removing contaminants - it depends on the type of contaminant. Instead, I'd recommend toluene as a stronger and purer solvent to remove oil-based or grease-type contaminants.
4) Mineral Oil - I guess that a nice long soak in mineral oil wouldn't hurt a copper coin, in an attempt to remove verdigris. Olive oil can turn rancid in air, whereas mineral oil will not. The solubility isn't very strong, and the viscosity might not provide the fastest penetration, but it's a relatively benign soak, so go for it.
I knew it would happen.
Soak began 1-28-08
Before:
After:
Before:
Before pictures:
As of today, 2-2-08 coin looks like the alcohol may be working, but I have not pulled it out yet, will take pics in a few days.
Left in for 30 days (actually took out 3-6-08), maybe a little too long, It has an unnatural RED look to it now,