1. Where do our current cards stand? Are they are PSA 8's or 8.5??? 2. Now PSA is like everyone else, the whole grade stood apart. 3. Now we have to resubmit our current cards to attempt to get a higher grade? Why is this? We thought we had a PSA 8 before, but maybe it's a PSA 8.5. It's an integrity of the grading process issue.
If PSA had done half grades from the beginning, no one would have cared.
Running an Ebay store sure takes a lot more time than a person would think!
<< <i>I want to know how you managed to get your name up on Carol's thread?
Steve >>
I've been wondering the same thing. >>
It's the super duper exclusive private room.
And yes, we have been talking about y'all.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>This move is useless in my opinion until PSA addresses their significant grading inconsistancies. >>
Inconstancies? What are you saying? Are you telling me that this Brooks Robinson that was just graded and I received yesterday really isn't an 8? So what, with the three fuzzy corners and rough cut left border it should have been a 7.5, right?
CARD WAS OVERGRADED BY TWO GRADES. Anybody who thinks that a half point grade system is going to fix inconstancies like this or any other problems really doesn't have a clue! Let's say this card was graded after the .5 system was in effect. That means that it could have been no worse than a 7.5 since they think it's an 8.
Hey Joe, How bout you give the people of these boards the same offers you are giving to some of the larger collectors ? I would think among everyone here we could come up with over 50,000 cards at least. How can you be fair in the grading process when you cant even be fair to your loyal customer base ?
IMO the biggest negative is for cards where resubmission to get an 8.5 instead of an 8 (for example) would be not worth it finanially (e.g., '70s commons, which are widely collected as part of graded set collections). People who already submitted cards that are worthy of 8.5 got 8s. People who haven't yet submitted those cards will now get 8.5s.
<< <i>Ya know, if PSA really wants to 'compete' with BGS and SGC, then wipe out the $100/year membership fee. Make the (now pointless) population reports FREE like everyone else's... and forget about the "6 freebie gradings." ...and... If anyone wants the SMR, they can just subscribe to it. >>
Agreed! My membership ran out and I'm thinking long and hard about doing it again. For the little bit I submit it's really not worth it.
<< Ya know, if PSA really wants to 'compete' with BGS and SGC, then wipe out the $100/year membership fee. Make the (now pointless) population reports FREE like everyone else's... and forget about the "6 freebie gradings." ...and... If anyone wants the SMR, they can just subscribe to it. >>
I agree with this post 100.5% Lose the silly "membership" fee!
<< <i><< Ya know, if PSA really wants to 'compete' with BGS and SGC, then wipe out the $100/year membership fee. Make the (now pointless) population reports FREE like everyone else's... and forget about the "6 freebie gradings." ...and... If anyone wants the SMR, they can just subscribe to it. >>
I agree with this post 100.5% Lose the silly "membership" fee! >>
Whereas I agree with you, i wish membership was free, it is known that memberships are good marketing, the concept being it keeps you coming back. But they should adjust the membership. I think everyone agrees that pop reports should be free. The pop reports actually help promote their product, and many don't use it simply because they dont want to be a member. No one is going to join a membership solely for the pop reports. On the other hand, the SMR does cost them money to update and publish and distribute. The value of the membership should be more closely related to the actual cost of the submissions. Let the client decide if they want 10 day or however many day turnaround they want.
1. Pop reports free 2. For $100 membership you get your choice of $100 in services and free online SMR (drop the hardcopy)
Note - services include whatever member wants (including $20 psa/dna, reslabs, 10 day service, toppsvault, etc..) but must still be used all at the same time.
<< <i>Message Boards can be a funny place. In some cases, you can't even be certain that the people posting are "real" or that their claims are genuine. I have been talking to a lot of people and receiving emails as well. The response has been overwhelmingly positive despite some uproar on these boards. You all should be aware of that. >>
THAT IS BULL$HIT. IF YOU, OR ANYBODY ELSE TRUELY BELIEVES THAT, THEN YOU ARE IGNORANT! THERE IS A TRISTAR SHOW HERE IN HOUSTON THIS WEEKEND AND I KNOW THAT YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE REPRESENTATIVES THERE. HOW ABOUT ME AND ONE OF YOUR REPRESENTATIVES CONDUCT OUR OWN MARKET RESEARCH. WILL STAND OUTSIDE AND DO OUR OWN SURVEY. YOU PICK THE DAY(S). YOU PICK THE TIME(S). COME ON, WHAT DO YOU SAY? YOU'LL ALREADY BE THERE. THEN WE CAN SHOW ALL OF YOUR PUPPETS THE REAL RESULTS OF THE SURVEY! BUT THEN AGIAN, YOU DON'T HAVE YOU DON'T HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING TO ME. I KNOW THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU ARE GOING TO SET UP AT THE HOUSTON TRISTAR SHOW, AND I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY ON SUNDAY THE NUMBERS WILL SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.
(THIS CHALLENGE IS ALSO OPEN TO ANY OTHER MORON WHO WANTS TO DEFEND P$A AND BELIEVES THEIR LIES THAT THIS IS "OVERWHELMINGLY POSITIVE.")
EVERYBODY HERE KNOWS THAT THIS IS ONLY A MARKETING PLOY TO MAKE MORE MONEY - NOTHING ELSE. IF YOU GO THROUGH WITH THIS, SURE YOU WILL MAKE A LOT MORE MONEY FOR 'REVIEWS" AND YOU'LL KEEP MAKING MONEY OFF THE SAME CARD AS IS PASSES FROM COLLECTOR TO COLLECTOR, EACH TIME BEING REVIEWED. HOWEVER, I BELIEVE THAT THE MONEY THAT YOU WILL LOOSE FROM THOSE OF US WHO TAKE OUR BUSINESS ELSEWHERE WILL FAR OUTWEIGH THE MONEY YOU MAKE FROM REVIEWS. IS IT WORTH IT?
THE BOARD MAY ONLY MAKE UP 1% OF COLLECTORS, BUT THE PERCENTAGE IS IRRELEVANT. WHAT IS RELEVANT IS IT MAKES UP A GROUP OF PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND OF THE "DECIDED" PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD, 70% DO NOT LIKE IT. THE OTHER 25% (YOUR PUPPETS) WILL GO ALONG WITH WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO. AGAIN I ASK, IS IT WORTH IT???
<< <i>Message Boards can be a funny place. In some cases, you can't even be certain that the people posting are "real" or that their claims are genuine. I have been talking to a lot of people and receiving emails as well. The response has been overwhelmingly positive despite some uproar on these boards. You all should be aware of that. >>
THAT IS BULL$HIT. IF YOU, OR ANYBODY ELSE TRUELY BELIEVES THAT, THEN YOU ARE IGNORANT! THERE IS A TRISTAR SHOW HERE IN HOUSTON THIS WEEKEND AND I KNOW THAT YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE REPRESENTATIVES THERE. HOW ABOUT ME AND ONE OF YOUR REPRESENTATIVES CONDUCT OUR OWN MARKET RESEARCH. WILL STAND OUTSIDE AND DO OUR OWN SURVEY. YOU PICK THE DAY(S). YOU PICK THE TIME(S). COME ON, WHAT DO YOU SAY? YOU'LL ALREADY BE THERE. THEN WE CAN SHOW ALL OF YOUR PUPPETS THE REAL RESULTS OF THE SURVEY! BUT THEN AGIAN, YOU DON'T HAVE YOU DON'T HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING TO ME. I KNOW THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU ARE GOING TO SET UP AT THE HOUSTON TRISTAR SHOW, AND I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY ON SUNDAY THE NUMBERS WILL SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.
(THIS CHALLENGE IS ALSO OPEN TO ANY OTHER MORON WHO WANTS TO DEFEND P$A AND BELIEVES THEIR LIES THAT THIS IS "OVERWHELMINGLY POSITIVE.")
EVERYBODY HERE KNOWS THAT THIS IS ONLY A MARKETING PLOY TO MAKE MORE MONEY - NOTHING ELSE. IF YOU GO THROUGH WITH THIS, SURE YOU WILL MAKE A LOT MORE MONEY FOR 'REVIEWS" AND YOU'LL KEEP MAKING MONEY OFF THE SAME CARD AS IS PASSES FROM COLLECTOR TO COLLECTOR, EACH TIME BEING REVIEWED. HOWEVER, I BELIEVE THAT THE MONEY THAT YOU WILL LOOSE FROM THOSE OF US WHO TAKE OUR BUSINESS ELSEWHERE WILL FAR OUTWEIGH THE MONEY YOU MAKE FROM REVIEWS. IS IT WORTH IT?
THE BOARD MAY ONLY MAKE UP 1% OF COLLECTORS, BUT THE PERCENTAGE IS IRRELEVANT. WHAT IS RELEVANT IS IT MAKES UP A GROUP OF PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND OF THE "DECIDED" PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD, 70% DO NOT LIKE IT. THE OTHER 25% (YOUR PUPPETS) WILL GO ALONG WITH WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO. AGAIN I ASK, IS IT WORTH IT??? >>
Tell us how you really feel.
And to be honest, don't think the ALL CAPS makes any difference in your message.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>Message Boards can be a funny place. In some cases, you can't even be certain that the people posting are "real" or that their claims are genuine. I have been talking to a lot of people and receiving emails as well. The response has been overwhelmingly positive despite some uproar on these boards. You all should be aware of that. >>
THAT IS BULL$HIT. IF YOU, OR ANYBODY ELSE TRUELY BELIEVES THAT, THEN YOU ARE IGNORANT! THERE IS A TRISTAR SHOW HERE IN HOUSTON THIS WEEKEND AND I KNOW THAT YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE REPRESENTATIVES THERE. HOW ABOUT ME AND ONE OF YOUR REPRESENTATIVES CONDUCT OUR OWN MARKET RESEARCH. WILL STAND OUTSIDE AND DO OUR OWN SURVEY. YOU PICK THE DAY(S). YOU PICK THE TIME(S). COME ON, WHAT DO YOU SAY? YOU'LL ALREADY BE THERE. THEN WE CAN SHOW ALL OF YOUR PUPPETS THE REAL RESULTS OF THE SURVEY! BUT THEN AGIAN, YOU DON'T HAVE YOU DON'T HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING TO ME. I KNOW THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU ARE GOING TO SET UP AT THE HOUSTON TRISTAR SHOW, AND I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY ON SUNDAY THE NUMBERS WILL SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.
(THIS CHALLENGE IS ALSO OPEN TO ANY OTHER MORON WHO WANTS TO DEFEND P$A AND BELIEVES THEIR LIES THAT THIS IS "OVERWHELMINGLY POSITIVE.")
EVERYBODY HERE KNOWS THAT THIS IS ONLY A MARKETING PLOY TO MAKE MORE MONEY - NOTHING ELSE. IF YOU GO THROUGH WITH THIS, SURE YOU WILL MAKE A LOT MORE MONEY FOR 'REVIEWS" AND YOU'LL KEEP MAKING MONEY OFF THE SAME CARD AS IS PASSES FROM COLLECTOR TO COLLECTOR, EACH TIME BEING REVIEWED. HOWEVER, I BELIEVE THAT THE MONEY THAT YOU WILL LOOSE FROM THOSE OF US WHO TAKE OUR BUSINESS ELSEWHERE WILL FAR OUTWEIGH THE MONEY YOU MAKE FROM REVIEWS. IS IT WORTH IT?
THE BOARD MAY ONLY MAKE UP 1% OF COLLECTORS, BUT THE PERCENTAGE IS IRRELEVANT. WHAT IS RELEVANT IS IT MAKES UP A GROUP OF PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND OF THE "DECIDED" PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD, 70% DO NOT LIKE IT. THE OTHER 25% (YOUR PUPPETS) WILL GO ALONG WITH WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO. AGAIN I ASK, IS IT WORTH IT??? >>
You continue to say that this is garbage, it is all about the money, you don't agree with it............no one is keeping you here.
--------------------------------------------- Authorized wholesale dealer for BCW, if you need any supplies let me know and I will get you a quote
<< <i>You continue to say that this is garbage, it is all about the money, you don't agree with it............no one is keeping you here. >>
So genuis, if it is not about the money, then why charge more $$$ to REGRADE a card that's already been GRADED?
You are one of the puppets I was referring to. I'll make you a deal puppet, I'll fly you out to Houston (only one way) this evening and put you up in a hotel room on my dime. We'll do the survey tomorrow at the TriStar show. If you loose, you pay me back for the ticket and hotel room and it is your responsibility to get back home. If I loose, I'll buy your ticket back home. What could be more fair?
The challenge is also open to any other puppets who wish to participate. Come on, you think you're right, step right up and win yourself a FREE TRIP at my expense.
I'm sorry that you collect modern "crap" that will never be worth anything - graded or not. But if you had 22 years of your life invested and tens of thousands of dollars, you might feel a little different. What do you say BIG MOUTH? Nobody is keeping you there!
I agree, lose the membership fee. Let us choose to subscribe to SMR, do away with the free subs...I mean come on, they're not really free, now are they? I am about to be done with my first year of PSA. My membership will be coming to an end soon. For the small amount of cards that I sent in this year I lost more than my share of money. With the $100 membership fee and waiting for the $5 monthly special, I had less than 80 cards graded this year. It definitely was not worth it. As a new member, I am not pleased and probably won't renew. Graded cards are nice and all, but I believe the price is too much for those of us that do not make a career of selling cards. Some of us smaller scale hobbyists are being shut out. If that is how PSA wants it, then by all means, good job, and continue. However, if this is not how PSA wants it, then listen to your customers. There are lots of us who DO agree the membership fee, etc., is a bit much when added to the prices per submission.
<< <i>THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT THEY ARE TOUGHER GRADERS AND THE HOLDER IS MUCH MORE PROFESSIONAL >>
This is bunch of BS. The SGC holders are flimsy and the black gasket fades. The holders are too wide to fit in standard card boxes. I've had SGC cards that are great for the grade, and many that are weak for the grade. Just like PSA. If you like them go ahead and use them, just don't make stuff up.
Hey vintageguy--you should be receiving a call from someone living in Green Bay as it will 0 degrees there. I'm sure they would like the warmer weather in Houston.
Joe how about improving the quality of your personnel before they start half grading? Can you explain to this board how your so called verifiers didnt notice 2 cards were in the wrong holders before they shipped them to me? isnt that their job to match the label to the card? Also how about doing some normal improvements like labelling gray back white back 56s? white or black lettering 53? blank bank or instructions 63 peel offs? is this to difficult? Or how about someone strightening out the pop report dozens of items are listed under 2 differnt names when theyre the same thing and many more are listed under the wrong year...ie 1967 opc paper inserts...they are 1968s Quality control is not psa stong suit....1/2 pt grading is simply away to generate dollars as the law of diminishing returns is taking effect...we're running out of cards to grade that was inevitable....why not try grading wrappers? no one else does
<< <i>Joe how about improving the quality of your personnel before they start half grading? Can you explain to this board how your so called verifiers didnt notice 2 cards were in the wrong holders before they shipped them to me? isnt that their job to match the label to the card? Also how about doing some normal improvements like labelling gray back white back 56s? white or black lettering 53? blank bank or instructions 63 peel offs? is this to difficult? Or how about someone strightening out the pop report dozens of items are listed under 2 differnt names when theyre the same thing and many more are listed under the wrong year...ie 1967 opc paper inserts...they are 1968s Quality control is not psa stong suit....1/2 pt grading is simply away to generate dollars as the law of diminishing returns is taking effect...we're running out of cards to grade that was inevitable....why not try grading wrappers? no one else does >>
After much thought and a ton of feedback from hobbyists throughout the industry, PSA has decided these questions arent worth answering since they have nothing to profit from in this aspect....
THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT THEY (SGC) ARE TOUGHER GRADERS AND THE HOLDER IS MUCH MORE PROFESSIONAL >>
They (SGC) never use the MK or St qualifiers and have become a HAVEN , yes a HAVEN for PSA MK and ST cards. I DO agree that any card with paperloss should not automactically be a 1 in any holder
great for the short term, but likely to be the beginning of the end for the long term - grading now will be clearly exposed for the SUBJECTIVITY that it is - grading is an art, not a science as PSA would like us all to believe. this will reveal that clearly, and in time i believe submissions will drastically drop, especially for commons
I really don't understand why they changed to a .5 system. They're weakening their brand (this better not devalue my collection) and also irking the people who pay the already annoying yearly fee. I signed on for PSA because of the solid grade stance. PSA is now chasing the market, not expanding it. This is pathetic. Go read the 22 Immutable Laws of Branding.
Since you have been so outraged by the change, I think you should take Joe up on his offer to discuss your problems over the phone with him.
Please let us know how the conversation goes.
Thanks in advance.
B
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
great for the short term, but likely to be the beginning of the end for the long term - grading now will be clearly exposed for the SUBJECTIVITY that it is - grading is an art, not a science as PSA would like us all to believe. this will reveal that clearly, and in time i believe submissions will drastically drop, especially for commons
Oh I dunno about that. PSA never said that grading was a science, in fact they make it a point to say it is subjective in nature. With that said, people will still submit cards as long as there are people willing to buy them and they can make money. People may have higher standards now hoping for the 8.5 instead of the 8 (for commons) the superstars will always be graded just for the simple fact that is how one gets top dollar for them regardless of grade.
<< <i>You continue to say that this is garbage, it is all about the money, you don't agree with it............no one is keeping you here. >>
So genuis, if it is not about the money, then why charge more $$$ to REGRADE a card that's already been GRADED?
You are one of the puppets I was referring to. I'll make you a deal puppet, I'll fly you out to Houston (only one way) this evening and put you up in a hotel room on my dime. We'll do the survey tomorrow at the TriStar show. If you loose, you pay me back for the ticket and hotel room and it is your responsibility to get back home. If I loose, I'll buy your ticket back home. What could be more fair?
The challenge is also open to any other puppets who wish to participate. Come on, you think you're right, step right up and win yourself a FREE TRIP at my expense.
I'm sorry that you collect modern "crap" that will never be worth anything - graded or not. But if you had 22 years of your life invested and tens of thousands of dollars, you might feel a little different. What do you say BIG MOUTH? Nobody is keeping you there! >>
I never said it wasn't about money....to a certain extent every business move should be about money.
I am going to pass on the gracious invitation to Houston, but thanks for the offer. I have ZERO DOLLARS invested in PSA, so i am not real sure how I am a "puppet"....I see no strings.
I enjoy all sides of this hooby/business, and this may or may not turn out to be a smart business move....only time will tell.
You don't need to be sorry for my collection, I certainly am not. I have cards from the 50's-current. I enjoy them all, and will continue to do s, whether you approve or not.
I am not a PSA member, just a board member...I have been contemplating becoming a member, just haven't decided yet.
My entire 1 sentence statement was toward the fact that you have complained an taken offense to the moves of PSA in the past 48 hours as though this decision was made to anger you personally. While each and every member of PSA is important to their business, you are no more important than anyone else that is a member.
--------------------------------------------- Authorized wholesale dealer for BCW, if you need any supplies let me know and I will get you a quote
I am not going to restate what many others have said. The only observation I would throw into the ring, that might work a positive, is to at least offer a special of $3 to $4 per card for review of prior slabs with the new grading scale in mind. In fact, and depending on the card, maybe this could even be as low as $2. If you think about it, and without opening a new can of worms, the slabbed cards have already been determined by PSA to be genuine and unaltered; the only consideration now is whether there should be a bump in grade. That should, one would think, immensley cut down on the grading time. I would like to hope too that PSA would have the "grapes," where appropriate, to bump deserving cards up more than a half grade if the review warrants such. $6.00 or more per card for a review of a previously graded PSA card seems way too steep in my mind.
Doing the foregoing will at least spread some good will over this change and in the process, still allow PSA to make more money. Doing such a reduced special may even entice a number of collectors who would not otherwise go through the review to submit some cards. All told, it would be nice gesture by PSA to at least do this to recognize the profits set registry collectors have given to PSA.
People keep saying 6.00 per card , it depends on the value of the card. Some cards will cost 60.00 to regrade.
Or did I read the release wrong?
Also, everyone has the idea that they will be getting bumps, what if PSA is very stingy with the bumps? What if you send in 100 cards from 1000 you own and some ridiculous low pct actually bump? You go thru 1000 cards , choose 10% and then only 20% (or less) bump? hmmmmmm?
anyone consider that?
If i was going to send any in for this regrade i'd be sitting on the edge of my seat that is for sure.
also keep in mind.. we keep talking about $6... it is only 6.. if you submit 100 cards for a bulk rate... $600 + 50 to ship
otherwise it is $15 each for a small guy like me.. tough to swallow when you already spent $15 once..
that is way way way tooooo high I agree.. the card is slabbed.. not much time or effort would go back into a review.. relatively speaking..
it would be awesome to see them come out with a review special.. at least for the first month or maybe 2..
once things get back to normal.. it is business as usual... and the fee's are what they are.. but in the short term it would take care of an existing customer base...
I don't think it is bad for the hobby. Actually i think it is good for it. Going forward we will have more precise grading. What is bad is how it effects people short term. That can't be over looked.
In the long run I see it as a good thing.
The market will speak as to what a card will sell for.
But now PSA doesn't stand out over the other grading companies like Beckett, now there the same (grading system wise). I never liked the .5 grading system and thats why I chose PSA! Now I rather go to Beckett if PSA is offering the same thing.
PSA AT LEAST GIVE US SOMETHING, FREE SUBS, ANYTHING.
<< <i>People keep saying 6.00 per card , it depends on the value of the card. Some cards will cost 60.00 to regrade.
Or did I read the release wrong?
Also, everyone has the idea that they will be getting bumps, what if PSA is very stingy with the bumps? What if you send in 100 cards from 1000 you own and some ridiculous low pct actually bump? You go thru 1000 cards , choose 10% and then only 20% (or less) bump? hmmmmmm?
anyone consider that?
If i was going to send any in for this regrade i'd be sitting on the edge of my seat that is for sure.
Steve >>
I still don't understand why the card has to either remain the same or be bumped? Why can't they decide the card was over-graded? Will the grader actually know the original grade? So if a more seasoned grader determines the card is trimmed that was missed, he can with a clean conscience simply refuse to bump it and leave it? I'm so lost.
winpitcher - i respectfully disagree with your statement: "PSA never said that grading was a science, in fact they make it a point to say it is subjective in nature. "
do you remember the "world series of grading" PSA had for a couple of years? There was no subjectivity involved. Joe went to great lengths to state, "well the best grader was 85% "correct" - most people did not get half the grades right". My buddy entered the contest and was like 40% "correct" because his 6 should have been a 7"oc" according to PSA. it was ridiculous.
i have resubmitted 5's that have become 8's on more than 1 occasion. I've pulled cards from packs from sealed cases that came back trimmed, and i have seen PSA holder fake cards, we've all seen trimmed cards in holders - let alone getting the grades right. And i am not a big time submitter - just a regular old PSA member and collector. people play the crack and resubmit game like it is a drug habit - they know it will usually hit eventually. Grading is somewhat of a joke really, but as long as the market buys into it as a true "authority" it will survive - and cause an increase in prices. I believe the half grades will really show folks how subjective it REALLY is, and with that, confidence will drop like an anvil over the long haul.
in my humble opinion. Hope i am wrong on this guess.
"You can't be certain that the people posting are "Real" or that their claims are Genuine" !!!??? What!? Must be the same "Phatom" posters you claim overwelming Email you with their Support. You sure must have been having trouble with "REALITY" when you hatched this sleazy little corprate plan and piggybacked it on the .5 grading system and "Its best for the hobby". Like that was your motivation. CORPRATE GREED PURE AND SIMPLE.
It's NOT about weather the .5 system would be better for the hobby. It probably will be. You knew that 5 years ago. It's about trying to use that "Its best for the hobby" to milk collector's who have already PAID you once for your services to pay again. THAT is down right crimminal! If you truely did care about the hobby and the collectors who have already paid you millions, Maybe billions of dollars, there would be ABSOLUTELY NO CHARGE to have this review done. Especially if you graded them wrong in the first place. THAT'S what is best for the hobby and what ANY respectable company would do.
When Ford Motor company scews up their transmission it is recalled and fixed FREE of charge. When you get a defected item from Wal-Mart it is promptly refunded or exchanged FREE of charge When there's a hair in your burger at McDonalds they refund it FREE of Charge. When you recieve a faulty card grade from PSA ... You pay them again???? I don't think so.
IF the .5 grading system is so much better for us as a hobby and will increase the value of our cards and offer us "More Precise and accurate Grading" Why did PSA continue to take our money for years, knowing they were issuing a defective product (Under and Over graded cards)? YOU NOW acknowledge this fact by implementing the .5 grading system becuase it is best for us and the hobby? AND you WANT ME TO PAY for your oversight and screw up!? If we as collectors were not like a bunch of mindless cattle lining up for your slaughter, there may even be a class action lawsuit in there somewhere.
If PSA hadn't sold us out to go Public you would not be at the mercy of your shareholders who are your NUMBER ONE concern. Not the hobby.
I will give you one thing. You must have ice water in your veins to have the NERVE to even devise this kind of scheme, which so obviously is about NOTHING more than finding revenue for your bottomline and shareholder interest an insult to the intellegence of collector's everywhere. The real shame is, and I think you already know it, is that many collectors are so heavily weighted in PSA that they really have no choice but to let you shove this down their throat and there is not a thing they can do about.
As for the statements about not doing the half point in 2005. Ya flip flopped like a true pollitical hero. The only thing I see that has changed is your need to keep shareholders happy and the need to finally face the music and admit you guys were wrong and that you now need to try and capture market share from SGC & BGS. Its not Rocket science. I feel for ya, that must have been a long stressfull meeting when you realized you were going to have to flip flop and eat some crow. Nice job of not offering a real answer. "That was 5 Years ago" "Things change" Once again spoken like a true Politician.
Once again my gripe is NOT about the .5 Grading system!!!! It's about the immoral and dishonest way you are trying to use it to make more money off cards you have already been paid for. Just makes me wonder what kind of plan you will hatch in near future to force collectors to break their cards out of the holders so you can get paid again. Most likely it will be a NEW holder with a different design. At least I can respect that as a legit business decission. What your doing now is the right thing in implementing the .5 grading scale. Its just you are doing it for the WRONG reason.
A sh@t sandwhich served on a silver platter....... Is still a Sh@t Sandwhich
i have resubmitted 5's that have become 8's on more than 1 occasion. I've pulled cards from packs from sealed cases that came back trimmed,
uni, also with all due respect, if grading was a science how could that happen? It happens because grading is subjective. If grading was a science then all cards would be graded properly and would get the same grade if it was resubmitted and cracked out.
I'm not sure I fully understand you.
If you go to where they have the standards published they mention grading is subjective.
my point is that grading is TOTALLY subjective - and the crack and resubmit game proves that. ALthough psa might have the word "subjective" in their language - the public spends their money on these grades as though the grades are scientifically rock solid. and psa encourages and boasts of this "authoritative certainty" in their attitude and public image (ie - the "world series" of grading)
I guess my point is, to now state they will tell us grades to the half point - and all we have to do is empty our wallets for that privelege - i think it is the epitome of arrogance to the point of being comical. and i think it may just illustrate to the koolaid drinking public, that the entire grading game might just be a bit overrated - if not a virtual fallacy; and if that realization hits enough minds - i dont see how PSA survives the long term.
again - hope i am wrong, but the half-point grading is really pushing it.
sorry about all the misspellings and grammar - need to go to bed soon
"You can't be certain that the people posting are "Real" or that their claims are Genuine" !!!??? What!? Must be the same "Phatom" posters you claim overwelming Email you with their Support. You sure must have been having trouble with "REALITY" when you hatched this sleazy little corprate plan and piggybacked it on the .5 grading system and "Its best for the hobby". Like that was your motivation. CORPRATE GREED PURE AND SIMPLE.
It's NOT about weather the .5 system would be better for the hobby. It probably will be. You knew that 5 years ago. It's about trying to use that "Its best for the hobby" to milk collector's who have already PAID you once for your services to pay again. THAT is down right crimminal! If you truely did care about the hobby and the collectors who have already paid you millions, Maybe billions of dollars, there would be ABSOLUTELY NO CHARGE to have this review done. Especially if you graded them wrong in the first place. THAT'S what is best for the hobby and what ANY respectable company would do.
When Ford Motor company scews up their transmission it is recalled and fixed FREE of charge. When you get a defected item from Wal-Mart it is promptly refunded or exchanged FREE of charge When there's a hair in your burger at McDonalds they refund it FREE of Charge. When you recieve a faulty card grade from PSA ... You pay them again???? I don't think so.
IF the .5 grading system is so much better for us as a hobby and will increase the value of our cards and offer us "More Precise and accurate Grading" Why did PSA continue to take our money for years, knowing they were issuing a defective product (Under and Over graded cards)? YOU NOW acknowledge this fact by implementing the .5 grading system becuase it is best for us and the hobby? AND you WANT ME TO PAY for your oversight and screw up!? If we as collectors were not like a bunch of mindless cattle lining up for your slaughter, there may even be a class action lawsuit in there somewhere.
If PSA hadn't sold us out to go Public you would not be at the mercy of your shareholders who are your NUMBER ONE concern. Not the hobby.
I will give you one thing. You must have ice water in your veins to have the NERVE to even devise this kind of scheme, which so obviously is about NOTHING more than finding revenue for your bottomline and shareholder interest an insult to the intellegence of collector's everywhere. The real shame is, and I think you already know it, is that many collectors are so heavily weighted in PSA that they really have no choice but to let you shove this down their throat and there is not a thing they can do about.
As for the statements about not doing the half point in 2005. Ya flip flopped like a true pollitical hero. The only thing I see that has changed is your need to keep shareholders happy and the need to finally face the music and admit you guys were wrong and that you now need to try and capture market share from SGC & BGS. Its not Rocket science. I feel for ya, that must have been a long stressfull meeting when you realized you were going to have to flip flop and eat some crow. Nice job of not offering a real answer. "That was 5 Years ago" "Things change" Once again spoken like a true Politician.
Once again my gripe is NOT about the .5 Grading system!!!! It's about the immoral and dishonest way you are trying to use it to make more money off cards you have already been paid for. Just makes me wonder what kind of plan you will hatch in near future to force collectors to break their cards out of the holders so you can get paid again. Most likely it will be a NEW holder with a different design. At least I can respect that as a legit business decission. What your doing now is the right thing in implementing the .5 grading scale. Its just you are doing it for the WRONG reason.
A sh@t sandwhich served on a silver platter....... Is still a Sh@t Sandwhich
Comments
The problem with the half grades is threefold:
1. Where do our current cards stand? Are they are PSA 8's or 8.5???
2. Now PSA is like everyone else, the whole grade stood apart.
3. Now we have to resubmit our current cards to attempt to get a higher grade? Why is this? We thought we had a PSA 8 before, but maybe it's a PSA 8.5. It's an integrity of the grading process issue.
If PSA had done half grades from the beginning, no one would have cared.
<< <i>
<< <i>I want to know how you managed to get your name up on Carol's thread?
Steve >>
I've been wondering the same thing. >>
It's the super duper exclusive private room.
And yes, we have been talking about y'all.
<< <i>This move is useless in my opinion until PSA addresses their significant grading inconsistancies. >>
Inconstancies? What are you saying? Are you telling me that this Brooks Robinson that was just graded and I received yesterday really isn't an 8? So what, with the three fuzzy corners and rough cut left border it should have been a 7.5, right?
CARD WAS OVERGRADED BY TWO GRADES. Anybody who thinks that a half point grade system is going to fix inconstancies like this or any other problems really doesn't have a clue! Let's say this card was graded after the .5 system was in effect. That means that it could have been no worse than a 7.5 since they think it's an 8.
<< <i>
It's the super duper exclusive private room.
And yes, we have been talking about y'all.
You should incorporate this into your sig:
Ripken in the Minors * Ripken in the Minors Facebook Page
Steve >>
I've been wondering the same thing. >>
It's the super duper exclusive private room.
And yes, we have been talking about y'all.
barry-tell her rube say hey
I'm so ticked off by this, i don't even know what to write!!!!!!!!
How can you be fair in the grading process when you cant even be fair to your loyal customer base ?
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>Ya know, if PSA really wants to 'compete' with BGS and SGC, then wipe out the $100/year membership fee.
Make the (now pointless) population reports FREE like everyone else's... and forget about the "6 freebie gradings."
...and... If anyone wants the SMR, they can just subscribe to it. >>
Agreed! My membership ran out and I'm thinking long and hard about doing it again. For the little bit I submit it's really not worth it.
Make the (now pointless) population reports FREE like everyone else's... and forget about the "6 freebie gradings."
...and... If anyone wants the SMR, they can just subscribe to it. >>
I agree with this post 100.5%
Lose the silly "membership" fee!
<< <i><< Ya know, if PSA really wants to 'compete' with BGS and SGC, then wipe out the $100/year membership fee.
Make the (now pointless) population reports FREE like everyone else's... and forget about the "6 freebie gradings."
...and... If anyone wants the SMR, they can just subscribe to it. >>
I agree with this post 100.5%
Lose the silly "membership" fee! >>
Whereas I agree with you, i wish membership was free, it is known that memberships are good marketing, the concept being it keeps you coming back. But they should adjust the membership. I think everyone agrees that pop reports should be free. The pop reports actually help promote their product, and many don't use it simply because they dont want to be a member. No one is going to join a membership solely for the pop reports. On the other hand, the SMR does cost them money to update and publish and distribute. The value of the membership should be more closely related to the actual cost of the submissions. Let the client decide if they want 10 day or however many day turnaround they want.
1. Pop reports free
2. For $100 membership you get your choice of $100 in services and free online SMR (drop the hardcopy)
Note - services include whatever member wants (including $20 psa/dna, reslabs, 10 day service, toppsvault, etc..) but must still be used all at the same time.
<< <i>Message Boards can be a funny place. In some cases, you can't even be certain that the people posting are "real" or that their claims are genuine. I have been talking to a lot of people and receiving emails as well. The response has been overwhelmingly positive despite some uproar on these boards. You all should be aware of that. >>
THAT IS BULL$HIT. IF YOU, OR ANYBODY ELSE TRUELY BELIEVES THAT, THEN YOU ARE IGNORANT! THERE IS A TRISTAR SHOW HERE IN HOUSTON THIS WEEKEND AND I KNOW THAT YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE REPRESENTATIVES THERE. HOW ABOUT ME AND ONE OF YOUR REPRESENTATIVES CONDUCT OUR OWN MARKET RESEARCH. WILL STAND OUTSIDE AND DO OUR OWN SURVEY. YOU PICK THE DAY(S). YOU PICK THE TIME(S). COME ON, WHAT DO YOU SAY? YOU'LL ALREADY BE THERE. THEN WE CAN SHOW ALL OF YOUR PUPPETS THE REAL RESULTS OF THE SURVEY! BUT THEN AGIAN, YOU DON'T HAVE YOU DON'T HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING TO ME. I KNOW THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU ARE GOING TO SET UP AT THE HOUSTON TRISTAR SHOW, AND I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY ON SUNDAY THE NUMBERS WILL SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.
(THIS CHALLENGE IS ALSO OPEN TO ANY OTHER MORON WHO WANTS TO DEFEND P$A AND BELIEVES THEIR LIES THAT THIS IS "OVERWHELMINGLY POSITIVE.")
EVERYBODY HERE KNOWS THAT THIS IS ONLY A MARKETING PLOY TO MAKE MORE MONEY - NOTHING ELSE. IF YOU GO THROUGH WITH THIS, SURE YOU WILL MAKE A LOT MORE MONEY FOR 'REVIEWS" AND YOU'LL KEEP MAKING MONEY OFF THE SAME CARD AS IS PASSES FROM COLLECTOR TO COLLECTOR, EACH TIME BEING REVIEWED. HOWEVER, I BELIEVE THAT THE MONEY THAT YOU WILL LOOSE FROM THOSE OF US WHO TAKE OUR BUSINESS ELSEWHERE WILL FAR OUTWEIGH THE MONEY YOU MAKE FROM REVIEWS. IS IT WORTH IT?
THE BOARD MAY ONLY MAKE UP 1% OF COLLECTORS, BUT THE PERCENTAGE IS IRRELEVANT. WHAT IS RELEVANT IS IT MAKES UP A GROUP OF PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND OF THE "DECIDED" PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD, 70% DO NOT LIKE IT. THE OTHER 25% (YOUR PUPPETS) WILL GO ALONG WITH WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO. AGAIN I ASK, IS IT WORTH IT???
/////////////////////////////////////////
That is what I call "bullXXXX."
If I could make more money with another company's
holder I would do it. I can't.
<< <i>
<< <i>Message Boards can be a funny place. In some cases, you can't even be certain that the people posting are "real" or that their claims are genuine. I have been talking to a lot of people and receiving emails as well. The response has been overwhelmingly positive despite some uproar on these boards. You all should be aware of that. >>
THAT IS BULL$HIT. IF YOU, OR ANYBODY ELSE TRUELY BELIEVES THAT, THEN YOU ARE IGNORANT! THERE IS A TRISTAR SHOW HERE IN HOUSTON THIS WEEKEND AND I KNOW THAT YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE REPRESENTATIVES THERE. HOW ABOUT ME AND ONE OF YOUR REPRESENTATIVES CONDUCT OUR OWN MARKET RESEARCH. WILL STAND OUTSIDE AND DO OUR OWN SURVEY. YOU PICK THE DAY(S). YOU PICK THE TIME(S). COME ON, WHAT DO YOU SAY? YOU'LL ALREADY BE THERE. THEN WE CAN SHOW ALL OF YOUR PUPPETS THE REAL RESULTS OF THE SURVEY! BUT THEN AGIAN, YOU DON'T HAVE YOU DON'T HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING TO ME. I KNOW THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU ARE GOING TO SET UP AT THE HOUSTON TRISTAR SHOW, AND I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY ON SUNDAY THE NUMBERS WILL SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.
(THIS CHALLENGE IS ALSO OPEN TO ANY OTHER MORON WHO WANTS TO DEFEND P$A AND BELIEVES THEIR LIES THAT THIS IS "OVERWHELMINGLY POSITIVE.")
EVERYBODY HERE KNOWS THAT THIS IS ONLY A MARKETING PLOY TO MAKE MORE MONEY - NOTHING ELSE. IF YOU GO THROUGH WITH THIS, SURE YOU WILL MAKE A LOT MORE MONEY FOR 'REVIEWS" AND YOU'LL KEEP MAKING MONEY OFF THE SAME CARD AS IS PASSES FROM COLLECTOR TO COLLECTOR, EACH TIME BEING REVIEWED. HOWEVER, I BELIEVE THAT THE MONEY THAT YOU WILL LOOSE FROM THOSE OF US WHO TAKE OUR BUSINESS ELSEWHERE WILL FAR OUTWEIGH THE MONEY YOU MAKE FROM REVIEWS. IS IT WORTH IT?
THE BOARD MAY ONLY MAKE UP 1% OF COLLECTORS, BUT THE PERCENTAGE IS IRRELEVANT. WHAT IS RELEVANT IS IT MAKES UP A GROUP OF PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND OF THE "DECIDED" PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD, 70% DO NOT LIKE IT. THE OTHER 25% (YOUR PUPPETS) WILL GO ALONG WITH WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO. AGAIN I ASK, IS IT WORTH IT??? >>
Tell us how you really feel.
And to be honest, don't think the ALL CAPS makes any difference in your message.
<< <i>
<< <i>Message Boards can be a funny place. In some cases, you can't even be certain that the people posting are "real" or that their claims are genuine. I have been talking to a lot of people and receiving emails as well. The response has been overwhelmingly positive despite some uproar on these boards. You all should be aware of that. >>
THAT IS BULL$HIT. IF YOU, OR ANYBODY ELSE TRUELY BELIEVES THAT, THEN YOU ARE IGNORANT! THERE IS A TRISTAR SHOW HERE IN HOUSTON THIS WEEKEND AND I KNOW THAT YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE REPRESENTATIVES THERE. HOW ABOUT ME AND ONE OF YOUR REPRESENTATIVES CONDUCT OUR OWN MARKET RESEARCH. WILL STAND OUTSIDE AND DO OUR OWN SURVEY. YOU PICK THE DAY(S). YOU PICK THE TIME(S). COME ON, WHAT DO YOU SAY? YOU'LL ALREADY BE THERE. THEN WE CAN SHOW ALL OF YOUR PUPPETS THE REAL RESULTS OF THE SURVEY! BUT THEN AGIAN, YOU DON'T HAVE YOU DON'T HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING TO ME. I KNOW THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU ARE GOING TO SET UP AT THE HOUSTON TRISTAR SHOW, AND I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY ON SUNDAY THE NUMBERS WILL SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.
(THIS CHALLENGE IS ALSO OPEN TO ANY OTHER MORON WHO WANTS TO DEFEND P$A AND BELIEVES THEIR LIES THAT THIS IS "OVERWHELMINGLY POSITIVE.")
EVERYBODY HERE KNOWS THAT THIS IS ONLY A MARKETING PLOY TO MAKE MORE MONEY - NOTHING ELSE. IF YOU GO THROUGH WITH THIS, SURE YOU WILL MAKE A LOT MORE MONEY FOR 'REVIEWS" AND YOU'LL KEEP MAKING MONEY OFF THE SAME CARD AS IS PASSES FROM COLLECTOR TO COLLECTOR, EACH TIME BEING REVIEWED. HOWEVER, I BELIEVE THAT THE MONEY THAT YOU WILL LOOSE FROM THOSE OF US WHO TAKE OUR BUSINESS ELSEWHERE WILL FAR OUTWEIGH THE MONEY YOU MAKE FROM REVIEWS. IS IT WORTH IT?
THE BOARD MAY ONLY MAKE UP 1% OF COLLECTORS, BUT THE PERCENTAGE IS IRRELEVANT. WHAT IS RELEVANT IS IT MAKES UP A GROUP OF PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND OF THE "DECIDED" PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD, 70% DO NOT LIKE IT. THE OTHER 25% (YOUR PUPPETS) WILL GO ALONG WITH WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO. AGAIN I ASK, IS IT WORTH IT??? >>
You continue to say that this is garbage, it is all about the money, you don't agree with it............no one is keeping you here.
Authorized wholesale dealer for BCW, if you need any supplies let me know and I will get you a quote
<< <i>You continue to say that this is garbage, it is all about the money, you don't agree with it............no one is keeping you here. >>
So genuis, if it is not about the money, then why charge more $$$ to REGRADE a card that's already been GRADED?
You are one of the puppets I was referring to. I'll make you a deal puppet, I'll fly you out to Houston (only one way) this evening and put you up in a hotel room on my dime. We'll do the survey tomorrow at the TriStar show. If you loose, you pay me back for the ticket and hotel room and it is your responsibility to get back home. If I loose, I'll buy your ticket back home. What could be more fair?
The challenge is also open to any other puppets who wish to participate. Come on, you think you're right, step right up and win yourself a FREE TRIP at my expense.
I'm sorry that you collect modern "crap" that will never be worth anything - graded or not. But if you had 22 years of your life invested and tens of thousands of dollars, you might feel a little different. What do you say BIG MOUTH? Nobody is keeping you there!
www.tigerpawcast.com
GEAUX TIGERS!!
[
It is good for the company and good for collectors.
IT LOOKS AS IF (AND IT IS) THAT PSA IS ONLY DOING THIS FOR MONEY.
WHY WOULD A NY AREA RESIDENT SEND CARDS TO PSA WHEN YOU CAN GET THEM GRADED FASTER CHEAPER AND LOCALLY AT SGC.
THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT THEY ARE TOUGHER GRADERS AND THE HOLDER IS MUCH MORE PROFESSIONAL
PSA GOOFED BIG TIME HERE. BUT AS WE MAY OR MAY NOT CARE TO ADMIT, LIKE ANY OTHER COMPANY THEY WOULD RUIN THERE REP AND STANDING TO MAKE AN EXTRA BUCK.
<< <i>THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT THEY ARE TOUGHER GRADERS AND THE HOLDER IS MUCH MORE PROFESSIONAL >>
This is bunch of BS. The SGC holders are flimsy and the black gasket fades. The holders are too wide to fit in standard card boxes. I've had SGC cards that are great for the grade, and many that are weak for the grade. Just like PSA. If you like them go ahead and use them, just don't make stuff up.
Hey vintageguy--you should be receiving a call from someone living in Green Bay as it will 0 degrees there. I'm sure they would like the warmer weather in Houston.
how about improving the quality of your personnel before they start half grading?
Can you explain to this board how your so called verifiers didnt notice 2 cards were in the wrong holders before they shipped them to me? isnt that their job to match the label to the card?
Also how about doing some normal improvements like labelling gray back white back 56s?
white or black lettering 53? blank bank or instructions 63 peel offs?
is this to difficult? Or how about someone strightening out the pop report
dozens of items are listed under 2 differnt names when theyre the same thing and many more are listed under the wrong year...ie 1967 opc paper inserts...they are 1968s
Quality control is not psa stong suit....1/2 pt grading is simply away to generate dollars
as the law of diminishing returns is taking effect...we're running out of cards to grade
that was inevitable....why not try grading wrappers? no one else does
<< <i>Joe
how about improving the quality of your personnel before they start half grading?
Can you explain to this board how your so called verifiers didnt notice 2 cards were in the wrong holders before they shipped them to me? isnt that their job to match the label to the card?
Also how about doing some normal improvements like labelling gray back white back 56s?
white or black lettering 53? blank bank or instructions 63 peel offs?
is this to difficult? Or how about someone strightening out the pop report
dozens of items are listed under 2 differnt names when theyre the same thing and many more are listed under the wrong year...ie 1967 opc paper inserts...they are 1968s
Quality control is not psa stong suit....1/2 pt grading is simply away to generate dollars
as the law of diminishing returns is taking effect...we're running out of cards to grade
that was inevitable....why not try grading wrappers? no one else does >>
After much thought and a ton of feedback from hobbyists throughout the industry, PSA has decided these questions arent worth answering since they have nothing to profit from in this aspect....
THAT IS WITHOUT A DOUBT.
READERS/POSTERS/ HOW MANY OF YOU FEEL THAT THE HAVE TAKEN A STEP BACK...
YOUR THOUGHTS
They (SGC) never use the MK or St qualifiers and have become a HAVEN , yes a HAVEN for PSA MK and ST cards. I DO agree that any card with paperloss should not automactically be a 1 in any holder
Was I supposed to type that in all caps?
Ripken in the Minors * Ripken in the Minors Facebook Page
great for the short term, but likely to be the beginning of the end for the long term - grading now will be clearly exposed for the SUBJECTIVITY that it is - grading is an art, not a science as PSA would like us all to believe. this will reveal that clearly, and in time i believe submissions will drastically drop, especially for commons
my take as a collector:
this sucks ass
CINCINNATI REDS
1976 - 1991 - Topps PSA 10
1983 & 1985 Fleer PSA 10
1985 Donruss PSA 10
Blue Ink Signed Topps Cards
Game-Used Bats/Jerseys
OPC PSA 10
MC & OC Cards
OTHER:
Eric Davis Anything
Votto, Willingham, Cantu, Doumit, Gomes
Baron Davis Game Used Jersey
Since you have been so outraged by the change, I think you should take Joe up on his offer to discuss your problems over the phone with him.
Please let us know how the conversation goes.
Thanks in advance.
B
Joe, thank you for coming to the board to chat with everybody directly, that was very nice of you!
I am behind PSA 110%
I think the half grade thing is great, to bad you can't introduce the plastic inner sleeve
Thanks,
Giovanni
just admit it they have taken a step back and have gotten sluggish.
<< <i>my take as a businessman:
great for the short term, but likely to be the beginning of the end for the long term - grading now will be clearly exposed for the SUBJECTIVITY that it is - grading is an art, not a science as PSA would like us all to believe. this will reveal that clearly, and in time i believe submissions will drastically drop, especially for commons
my take as a collector:
this sucks ass >>
I couldn't agree more with this post.
JMHO
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>You continue to say that this is garbage, it is all about the money, you don't agree with it............no one is keeping you here. >>
So genuis, if it is not about the money, then why charge more $$$ to REGRADE a card that's already been GRADED?
You are one of the puppets I was referring to. I'll make you a deal puppet, I'll fly you out to Houston (only one way) this evening and put you up in a hotel room on my dime. We'll do the survey tomorrow at the TriStar show. If you loose, you pay me back for the ticket and hotel room and it is your responsibility to get back home. If I loose, I'll buy your ticket back home. What could be more fair?
The challenge is also open to any other puppets who wish to participate. Come on, you think you're right, step right up and win yourself a FREE TRIP at my expense.
I'm sorry that you collect modern "crap" that will never be worth anything - graded or not. But if you had 22 years of your life invested and tens of thousands of dollars, you might feel a little different. What do you say BIG MOUTH? Nobody is keeping you there! >>
I never said it wasn't about money....to a certain extent every business move should be about money.
I am going to pass on the gracious invitation to Houston, but thanks for the offer. I have ZERO DOLLARS invested in PSA, so i am not real sure how I am a "puppet"....I see no strings.
I enjoy all sides of this hooby/business, and this may or may not turn out to be a smart business move....only time will tell.
You don't need to be sorry for my collection, I certainly am not. I have cards from the 50's-current. I enjoy them all, and will continue to do s, whether you approve or not.
I am not a PSA member, just a board member...I have been contemplating becoming a member, just haven't decided yet.
My entire 1 sentence statement was toward the fact that you have complained an taken offense to the moves of PSA in the past 48 hours as though this decision was made to anger you personally. While each and every member of PSA is important to their business, you are no more important than anyone else that is a member.
Authorized wholesale dealer for BCW, if you need any supplies let me know and I will get you a quote
Doing the foregoing will at least spread some good will over this change and in the process, still allow PSA to make more money. Doing such a reduced special may even entice a number of collectors who would not otherwise go through the review to submit some cards. All told, it would be nice gesture by PSA to at least do this to recognize the profits set registry collectors have given to PSA.
Or did I read the release wrong?
Also, everyone has the idea that they will be getting bumps, what if PSA is very stingy with the bumps? What if you send in 100 cards from 1000 you own and some ridiculous low pct actually bump? You go thru 1000 cards , choose 10% and then only 20% (or less) bump? hmmmmmm?
anyone consider that?
If i was going to send any in for this regrade i'd be sitting on the edge of my seat that is for sure.
Steve
otherwise it is $15 each for a small guy like me.. tough to swallow when you already spent $15 once..
that is way way way tooooo high
I agree.. the card is slabbed.. not much time or effort would go back into a review.. relatively speaking..
it would be awesome to see them come out with a review special.. at least for the first month or maybe 2..
once things get back to normal.. it is business as usual... and the fee's are what they are.. but in the short term
it would take care of an existing customer base...
In the long run I see it as a good thing.
The market will speak as to what a card will sell for.
JMHO
Steve
PSA AT LEAST GIVE US SOMETHING, FREE SUBS, ANYTHING.
<< <i>People keep saying 6.00 per card , it depends on the value of the card. Some cards will cost 60.00 to regrade.
Or did I read the release wrong?
Also, everyone has the idea that they will be getting bumps, what if PSA is very stingy with the bumps? What if you send in 100 cards from 1000 you own and some ridiculous low pct actually bump? You go thru 1000 cards , choose 10% and then only 20% (or less) bump? hmmmmmm?
anyone consider that?
If i was going to send any in for this regrade i'd be sitting on the edge of my seat that is for sure.
Steve >>
I still don't understand why the card has to either remain the same or be bumped? Why can't they decide the card was over-graded? Will the grader actually know the original grade? So if a more seasoned grader determines the card is trimmed that was missed, he can with a clean conscience simply refuse to bump it and leave it? I'm so lost.
do you remember the "world series of grading" PSA had for a couple of years? There was no subjectivity involved. Joe went to great lengths to state, "well the best grader was 85% "correct" - most people did not get half the grades right". My buddy entered the contest and was like 40% "correct" because his 6 should have been a 7"oc" according to PSA. it was ridiculous.
i have resubmitted 5's that have become 8's on more than 1 occasion. I've pulled cards from packs from sealed cases that came back trimmed, and i have seen PSA holder fake cards, we've all seen trimmed cards in holders - let alone getting the grades right. And i am not a big time submitter - just a regular old PSA member and collector. people play the crack and resubmit game like it is a drug habit - they know it will usually hit eventually. Grading is somewhat of a joke really, but as long as the market buys into it as a true "authority" it will survive - and cause an increase in prices. I believe the half grades will really show folks how subjective it REALLY is, and with that, confidence will drop like an anvil over the long haul.
in my humble opinion. Hope i am wrong on this guess.
Nothing more than political lip service.
"You can't be certain that the people posting are "Real" or that their claims are Genuine" !!!??? What!? Must be the same "Phatom" posters you claim overwelming Email you with their Support. You sure must have been having trouble with "REALITY" when you hatched this sleazy little corprate plan and piggybacked it on the .5 grading system and "Its best for the hobby". Like that was your motivation. CORPRATE GREED PURE AND SIMPLE.
It's NOT about weather the .5 system would be better for the hobby. It probably will be. You knew that 5 years ago. It's about trying to use that "Its best for the hobby" to milk collector's who have already PAID you once for your services to pay again. THAT is down right crimminal! If you truely did care about the hobby and the collectors who have already paid you millions, Maybe billions of dollars, there would be ABSOLUTELY NO CHARGE to have this review done. Especially if you graded them wrong in the first place. THAT'S what is best for the hobby and what ANY respectable company would do.
When Ford Motor company scews up their transmission it is recalled and fixed FREE of charge.
When you get a defected item from Wal-Mart it is promptly refunded or exchanged FREE of charge
When there's a hair in your burger at McDonalds they refund it FREE of Charge.
When you recieve a faulty card grade from PSA ... You pay them again???? I don't think so.
IF the .5 grading system is so much better for us as a hobby and will increase the value of our cards and offer us "More Precise and accurate Grading" Why did PSA continue to take our money for years, knowing they were issuing a defective product (Under and Over graded cards)? YOU NOW acknowledge this fact by implementing the .5 grading system becuase it is best for us and the hobby? AND you WANT ME TO PAY for your oversight and screw up!? If we as collectors were not like a bunch of mindless cattle lining up for your slaughter, there may even be a class action lawsuit in there somewhere.
If PSA hadn't sold us out to go Public you would not be at the mercy of your shareholders who are your NUMBER ONE concern. Not the hobby.
I will give you one thing. You must have ice water in your veins to have the NERVE to even devise this kind of scheme, which so obviously is about NOTHING more than finding revenue for your bottomline and shareholder interest an insult to the intellegence of collector's everywhere. The real shame is, and I think you already know it, is that many collectors are so heavily weighted in PSA that they really have no choice but to let you shove this down their throat and there is not a thing they can do about.
As for the statements about not doing the half point in 2005. Ya flip flopped like a true pollitical hero. The only thing I see that has changed is your need to keep shareholders happy and the need to finally face the music and admit you guys were wrong and that you now need to try and capture market share from SGC & BGS. Its not Rocket science. I feel for ya, that must have been a long stressfull meeting when you realized you were going to have to flip flop and eat some crow. Nice job of not offering a real answer. "That was 5 Years ago" "Things change" Once again spoken like a true Politician.
Once again my gripe is NOT about the .5 Grading system!!!! It's about the immoral and dishonest way you are trying to use it to make more money off cards you have already been paid for. Just makes me wonder what kind of plan you will hatch in near future to force collectors to break their cards out of the holders so you can get paid again. Most likely it will be a NEW holder with a different design. At least I can respect that as a legit business decission. What your doing now is the right thing in implementing the .5 grading scale. Its just you are doing it for the WRONG reason.
A sh@t sandwhich served on a silver platter....... Is still a Sh@t Sandwhich
NO THANKS! I DON"T BUY IT!
Just another Phatom writer.
i have resubmitted 5's that have become 8's on more than 1 occasion. I've pulled cards from packs from sealed cases that came back trimmed,
uni, also with all due respect, if grading was a science how could that happen? It happens because grading is subjective. If grading was a science then all cards would be graded properly and would get the same grade if it was resubmitted and cracked out.
I'm not sure I fully understand you.
If you go to where they have the standards published they mention grading is subjective.
Steve
<< <i>But now PSA doesn't stand out over the other grading companies like Beckett, now there the same (grading system wise).
<< <i>
Beckett charges $100 a year just to send cards in??
I guess my point is, to now state they will tell us grades to the half point - and all we have to do is empty our wallets for that privelege - i think it is the epitome of arrogance to the point of being comical. and i think it may just illustrate to the koolaid drinking public, that the entire grading game might just be a bit overrated - if not a virtual fallacy; and if that realization hits enough minds - i dont see how PSA survives the long term.
again - hope i am wrong, but the half-point grading is really pushing it.
sorry about all the misspellings and grammar - need to go to bed soon
<< <i>HOGWASH!
Nothing more than political lip service.
"You can't be certain that the people posting are "Real" or that their claims are Genuine" !!!??? What!? Must be the same "Phatom" posters you claim overwelming Email you with their Support. You sure must have been having trouble with "REALITY" when you hatched this sleazy little corprate plan and piggybacked it on the .5 grading system and "Its best for the hobby". Like that was your motivation. CORPRATE GREED PURE AND SIMPLE.
It's NOT about weather the .5 system would be better for the hobby. It probably will be. You knew that 5 years ago. It's about trying to use that "Its best for the hobby" to milk collector's who have already PAID you once for your services to pay again. THAT is down right crimminal! If you truely did care about the hobby and the collectors who have already paid you millions, Maybe billions of dollars, there would be ABSOLUTELY NO CHARGE to have this review done. Especially if you graded them wrong in the first place. THAT'S what is best for the hobby and what ANY respectable company would do.
When Ford Motor company scews up their transmission it is recalled and fixed FREE of charge.
When you get a defected item from Wal-Mart it is promptly refunded or exchanged FREE of charge
When there's a hair in your burger at McDonalds they refund it FREE of Charge.
When you recieve a faulty card grade from PSA ... You pay them again???? I don't think so.
IF the .5 grading system is so much better for us as a hobby and will increase the value of our cards and offer us "More Precise and accurate Grading" Why did PSA continue to take our money for years, knowing they were issuing a defective product (Under and Over graded cards)? YOU NOW acknowledge this fact by implementing the .5 grading system becuase it is best for us and the hobby? AND you WANT ME TO PAY for your oversight and screw up!? If we as collectors were not like a bunch of mindless cattle lining up for your slaughter, there may even be a class action lawsuit in there somewhere.
If PSA hadn't sold us out to go Public you would not be at the mercy of your shareholders who are your NUMBER ONE concern. Not the hobby.
I will give you one thing. You must have ice water in your veins to have the NERVE to even devise this kind of scheme, which so obviously is about NOTHING more than finding revenue for your bottomline and shareholder interest an insult to the intellegence of collector's everywhere. The real shame is, and I think you already know it, is that many collectors are so heavily weighted in PSA that they really have no choice but to let you shove this down their throat and there is not a thing they can do about.
As for the statements about not doing the half point in 2005. Ya flip flopped like a true pollitical hero. The only thing I see that has changed is your need to keep shareholders happy and the need to finally face the music and admit you guys were wrong and that you now need to try and capture market share from SGC & BGS. Its not Rocket science. I feel for ya, that must have been a long stressfull meeting when you realized you were going to have to flip flop and eat some crow. Nice job of not offering a real answer. "That was 5 Years ago" "Things change" Once again spoken like a true Politician.
Once again my gripe is NOT about the .5 Grading system!!!! It's about the immoral and dishonest way you are trying to use it to make more money off cards you have already been paid for. Just makes me wonder what kind of plan you will hatch in near future to force collectors to break their cards out of the holders so you can get paid again. Most likely it will be a NEW holder with a different design. At least I can respect that as a legit business decission. What your doing now is the right thing in implementing the .5 grading scale. Its just you are doing it for the WRONG reason.
A sh@t sandwhich served on a silver platter....... Is still a Sh@t Sandwhich
NO THANKS! I DON"T BUY IT!
Just another Phatom writer. >>
I AGREE 110%!