Help needed to recover a $3,542.75 stolen coin. UPDATE 1/17 - Coin has been returned.

VamGuy · January 11, 2008 8:12AM

A regular client of mine (well, ex-client now) has recently decided that he is neither going to pay for the $3,542.75 coin that I sent to him, nor return it.

While attending the Santa Clara coin show a few months ago, I came across a Morgan variety that this client needed for his registry set. I called him from the bourse floor and received his verbal approval to purchase the coin. I laid out the cash and then shipped the coin to him via USPS registered mail on November 20th. The USPS system shows the package was delivered November 26th. I haven't heard from him since. He's had the coin for 6 weeks now. I've sent four e-mails to him requesting payment, one requesting that he simply return the coin. I've called the only phone number I have for him no less than 15 times per day over the last 4 days. He won't even answer the phone. I know he's alive and well because he's currently listing & selling items on eBay every day. Essentially, it appears that his intent is simply to steal the coin from me. I really can't understand this because he's purchased a number of high dollar coins in the past and has always remitted payment immediately upon receipt of the coins. Now all of a sudden he doesn't pay for the coin, won't reply to e-mails & won't answer the phone when I call. I'm at my wits end. The last thing I want to do is fly out to North Carolina for a face to face.

My question for the members & dealers here is... How can I legally recover my property without confronting him in person and physically taking my property back?

Russ · January 11, 2008 8:14AM

Is this somebody with whom other forum members might potentially do business?

Russ, NCNE

VamGuy · January 11, 2008 8:15AM

<< Is this somebody with whom other forum members might potentially do business?

Russ, NCNE >>

Yes.

Russ · January 11, 2008 8:16AM

Well, if that's the case, then I think it should be revealed who it is.

Russ, NCNE

FLBuffaloHunter · January 11, 2008 8:17AM

Send him a certified letter of demand that he either returm the coin or pay for it. If it goes unanswered, open a civil suit aginst him.

StampAlarm · January 11, 2008 8:17AM

Why not call the DA and police in this guy's town?

VamGuy · January 11, 2008 8:19AM

<< Well, if that's the case, then I think it should be revealed who it is.

Russ, NCNE >>

I have no problem with providing detailed information including his telephone number, eBay handle, and physical address, however I'm looking for a way to recover my property, not create additional problems.

FLBuffaloHunter · January 11, 2008 8:25AM

<< Why not call the DA and police in this guy's town? >>

Since he did not physically steal the coin, i.e. it was sent as part of a verbal agreement with a promise to pay, I don't believe they would be of much help.

SeattleSlammer · January 11, 2008 8:26AM

Did he sign for the coin?

BECOKA · January 11, 2008 8:27AM

<< 

<< Why not call the DA and police in this guy's town? >>

Since he did not phisically steal the coin, being it was sent as part of a verbal agreement with a promise to pay, I don't believe they would be of much help. >>

Yep, small claims court would be about the best you could do if he does not respond.

rgCoinGuy · January 11, 2008 8:31AM

You could also be sure to include a link to this posting in your next email

ajia · January 11, 2008 8:31AM

I hope he doesn't cause problems for you!

Reading your title, at this point you consider the coin stolen.
Which would make him a thief.
Calling someone a thief without proof is pretty serious business IMO.

Fine, if he is a thief then it's time to call the Police and arrest his @.
Simple as that (I guess as I have not done this before).
At the very least a knock on the door from Police would show him you mean business.

JMO

Reading the replies from others, I might think of rewording your title!

Would the Small Claims trial be held in the buyers or sellers town, & what are the chances of collecting if the other party lives out of state?

greghansen · January 11, 2008 8:35AM

Since he did not physically steal the coin, i.e. it was sent as part of a verbal agreement with a promise to pay, I don't believe they would be of much help.

In most states, wrongfully holding onto property after initially coming into possession of it legally, is still theft, or a species of theft. Again, depending on the particular states law. It makes sense...otherwise everytime somebody rented a car and then refused to turn it in at the end of the rental period, would not be guilty of theft. That's not the case.

The police still may not be fired up to pursue it even though its a technical theft, because of the availability of a civil remedy, but again, you might get lucky and get somebody who actually wants to enforce the law that may be helpful.

If a fellow forum member sees him regularly, perhaps they could intervene as a 'volunteer mediator' and see what the heck is up. I'd be a little steamed if this happened to me. I also have mailed items of similar value to customers based on prior business so something similar could easily happen to me. Hope you get paid or your coin back. This sucks!

DeusExMachina · January 11, 2008 8:37AM

Pm sent.

drwstr123 · January 11, 2008 8:39AM

First, I'm sorry to hear this. Second, you must send a letter of demand for return, both First Class and Certified Mail. The reasoning is, if the Certified is returned, most people will open the regular mail out of curiosity. If both the mailings are not returned, the court assumes completed receipt. Document all communications. Good luck, Mike

BigRed · January 11, 2008 8:46AM

Last year i sold several hundred dollars worth of concrete statues to a guy ( I have a small lawn and garden store) and I delivered it to his house and he said he would drop by and pay me in a few days. Since he had bought off me several times before and was a good customer and I'm a softy I said " no problems, that will be fine". days turned into weeks and weeks turned into months and still no payment.I did call him once a month and remind him and he always said he has'nt forgot me. I called the police and ask if I could go get the stuff and they said if "I want to get shot". I called the sheriffs dept. to get thier opinion and they said "posession is 9/10 ownership. I had given up but continued to call the guy and keep my cool and gently ask for my money every month and low and behold 7 months later he dropped in and payed me and bought $400 more stuff and payed for it all up front. I know that isn't much help and something like that is very stressful but try to keep your cool and hopfuly it will turn out OK. GOOD LUCK!

savoyspecial · January 11, 2008 8:49AM

hmmm, north carolina you say?? i live in the western part of the state......what city is this guy in??

greg

Bigrig52 · January 11, 2008 9:05AM

I would say you are out of luck because there is nothing in writing and all he has to say is that it was a gift and there is no way to prove it...That happened to me a few years ago and i had to eat my losses..

BAJJERFAN · January 11, 2008 9:09AM

HAH, people don't just send $3500 gifts.

FLBuffaloHunter · January 11, 2008 9:12AM

<< I would say you are out of luck because there is nothing in writing and all he has to say is that it was a gift and there is no way to prove it...That happened to me a few years ago and i had to eat my losses.. >>

In a civil suit where the burden of proof lies in preponderance of the evidence, I feel the plantiff would prevail as the factual evidence does not support that theory.

TennesseeDave · January 11, 2008 9:13AM

What is the guys e-bay username?Also what was the coin.

ModernCrapNut · January 11, 2008 9:27AM

<< A regular client of mine (well, ex-client now) has recently decided that he is neither going to pay for the $3,542.75 coin that I sent to him, nor return it.

While attending the Santa Clara coin show a few months ago, I came across a Morgan variety that this client needed for his registry set. I called him from the bourse floor and received his verbal approval to purchase the coin. I laid out the cash and then shipped the coin to him via USPS registered mail on November 20th. The USPS system shows the package was delivered November 26th. I haven't heard from him since. He's had the coin for 6 weeks now. I've sent four e-mails to him requesting payment, one requesting that he simply return the coin. I've called the only phone number I have for him no less than 15 times per day over the last 4 days. He won't even answer the phone. I know he's alive and well because he's currently listing & selling items on eBay every day. Essentially, it appears that his intent is simply to steal the coin from me. I really can't understand this because he's purchased a number of high dollar coins in the past and has always remitted payment immediately upon receipt of the coins. Now all of a sudden he doesn't pay for the coin, won't reply to e-mails & won't answer the phone when I call. I'm at my wits end. The last thing I want to do is fly out to North Carolina for a face to face.

My question for the members & dealers here is... How can I legally recover my property without confronting him in person and physically taking my property back? >>

I'd be glad to call him from my area code in Ohio to see if he would answer. Just PM if you would like me to do so.

VamGuy · January 11, 2008 9:28AM

<< What is the guys e-bay username?Also what was the coin. >>

At this time I would like to keep the personal information about this individual private.

The Coin:

ricko · January 11, 2008 9:49AM

I would do SOMETHING soon... the longer you wait, the less likely recovery. Cheers, RickO

charley · January 11, 2008 9:51AM

Respectfully, and I know this is probably a silly question: are you certain that the initial telephone conversation was with the intended person? Could someone other than the person you called have answered? Could he be in a situation, medical/other that he would not recollect the conversation or you? Is there any physical proof that this person is at the phone location you call, or is in fact the person using e-bay? Just curious. Regards and Respectfully, John Curlis

Moki · January 11, 2008 10:00AM

<< you must send a letter of demand for return, both First Class and Certified Mail. The reasoning is, if the Certified is returned, most people will open the regular mail out of curiosity. If both the mailings are not returned, the court assumes completed receipt. Document all communications. >>

VamGuy · January 11, 2008 10:05AM

<< Respectfully, and I know this is probably a silly question: are you certain that the initial telephone conversation was with the intended person? >>

I'd bet my life on it. He has a VERY distinct voice and intonation that's unmistakable.

mike92694 · January 11, 2008 10:10AM

<< Now all of a sudden he doesn't pay for the coin, won't reply to e-mails & won't answer the phone when I call. I'm at my wits end. The last thing I want to do is fly out to North Carolina for a face to face.
>>

Hmm.

Maybe going to North Carolina for a F2F will bring a shocking discovery.

VamGuy · January 11, 2008 10:13AM

<< Hmm.

Maybe going to North Carolina for a F2F will bring a shocking discovery. >>

Thanks, that was helpful.

kiyote · January 11, 2008 10:15AM

How about giving me a chance to send out that certified cashier's check I told you about THREE DAYS AGO before calling the feds!? CHECK YOUR EMAIL!!

VamGuy · January 11, 2008 10:25AM

<< How about giving me a chance to send out that certified cashier's check I told you about THREE DAYS AGO before calling the feds!? CHECK YOUR EMAIL!! >>

Seriously dude, are you high or something?!?!?

Griv · January 11, 2008 10:35AM

Be nice to the Tarheel.

callawayc7 · January 11, 2008 10:37AM

Where's that popcorn icon? This is going to get good!

rbalderman1 · January 11, 2008 10:38AM

<< How about giving me a chance to send out that certified cashier's check I told you about THREE DAYS AGO before calling the feds!? CHECK YOUR EMAIL!! >>

Vam is this the guy so we know too block him????

Griv · January 11, 2008 10:40AM

charley · January 11, 2008 10:45AM

Respectfully, to your knowledge, is he an ANA member or a member of another organization with membership ethic requirements? Is this a possible interim method of "pressure", if he is a member of such an organization?? Regards and Respectfully, John Curlis

BlindedByEgo · January 11, 2008 10:46AM

<<

>>

VamGuy · January 11, 2008 10:51AM

<< Respectfully, to your knowledge, is he an ANA member or a member of another organization with membership ethic requirements? Is this a possible interim method of "pressure", if he is a member of such an organization?? Regards and Respectfully, John Curlis >>

Not to my knowledge.

charley · January 11, 2008 10:52AM

BlindedByEgo has officially made this a "6 bags of popcorn" thread. Regards and Respectfully, John Curlis

VamGuy · January 11, 2008 10:55AM

<< 

<< How about giving me a chance to send out that certified cashier's check I told you about THREE DAYS AGO before calling the feds!? CHECK YOUR EMAIL!! >>

Vam is this the guy so we know too block him???? >>

NO. I don't know what the Fck that reply was supposed to mean. ???

Broadstruck · January 11, 2008 11:00AM

VamGuy, Wow what a story... I've been in your shoes once before and it's a real P.I.T.A.

So since he's playing hardball... by outing him he'd hopefully be shuned all dealers.

Secondly as a Ebay seller knowing his ethics are in the gutter trying to beat you out of a coin, no one should buy squat off him as he may just pocket the cash.

FACE IT HE'S A CROOK!!!

TexasNationals · January 11, 2008 11:00AM

this thread has legs!

seatedcollector · January 11, 2008 11:09AM

you have options. if the police will do nothing (hard to believe) i can put you in touch with at least a few people that will recover your coin or cause some very serious damage trying to. i had a similar situation not long ago, a knock on the door is easy to ignore, a knock on the head is more likely to jar someones memory about what they "forgot" to pay for

SilverEagles92 · January 11, 2008 11:13AM

You know his name, you know his address. Show up at his house with a US Marshall and get your property back.

kiyote · January 11, 2008 11:14AM

<< 

<< How about giving me a chance to send out that certified cashier's check I told you about THREE DAYS AGO before calling the feds!? CHECK YOUR EMAIL!! >>

Seriously dude, are you high or something?!?!? >>

I did it for devilment!

Griv · January 11, 2008 11:15AM

I also had a bad experience where one time I had wanted to buy a couple hundred pounds of petrified dinosaur poop but instead I got several hundred pounds of fresh camel poop. Luckily I knew someone who was in the market for camel poop and I was able to get most of my money back. Cleaning up my living room was really the hardest part and on a warm summer day I sometimes wake up from a nap dreaming I am on a caravan. Weird.

charley · January 11, 2008 11:15AM

Respectfully, and with commentary requested from the many knowledgeable attorneys that are members here: is a possible avenue of "pressure" a request to investigate made to the USPS Inspector? A quick reading of the USPS Official Guide indicates that this is considered theft by mail, because of the method used to mail the Article. It further instructs that complaints and request for investigation be filed at the Post Office of mailing. Regards and Respectfully, John Curlis

Petescorner · January 11, 2008 11:21AM

If you suspect he's avoiding your calls by recognizing your incoming phone number, try dialing *67 before calling his number. It should block your phone number from his caller ID. Maybe he'll answer then.

As for anyone advocating flying out there for a face to face...are you nuts?

robkool · January 11, 2008 11:31AM

Kool thread... I LOVE IT !!!

Omega · January 11, 2008 11:39AM

What is popcorn without

rbalderman1 · January 11, 2008 11:41AM

50. I always wanted to do that.

Help needed to recover a $3,542.75 stolen coin. UPDATE 1/17 - Coin has been returned.

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