Story of a probable counterfeit 1932 $10 Indian
roadrunner
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This is the story of a probable counterfeit raw AU58/MS61 counterfeit $10 Indian I received in the mail a week ago. I returned it to the seller and received a refund. But on the bright side, this afforded me an opportunity to closely study the coin in every detail. With slabbed coins one doesn't often look at coins quite close enough. I used the information in the PCGS grading and counterfeit detection guide as well.
The luster is odd and dullish with no change in texture across the devices. What I would call raised tooling marks are a spike at the L in Liberty and at the base of one of the headress feathers. The latter almost appearing as a series of claw marks. Odd tiny blobs and depressions are located on various parts of the coin. The 1 in the date is indistinct at the base while the 3 and 2 have a very plateaued shape rather than rounded as seen on a 1932 PCGS MS64 coin I used for comparison. Next to the PCGS coin, they look worlds apart on the detailing. For a nice AU58 as the raw one would be, it is missing eagle detail on the eagle's shoulder and breast. An odd planchet defect in the headress edge at around 3:00 draws one's attention. There is no sign of die polish or die cracking anywhere on the coin that I could see. 1932's are usually seen with some die polish in protected areas, esp the date area. Worse yet, when dropped, the coin goes "thud" with not a tinge of a "ring" that all struck coins should have. Even in the 2X2 which holds it, it should still ring a tad. Coin appears essentially MS with no wear based on how good the luster is, hence the lack of details are a warning sign. The coin appears somewhat proof-like with a weak cartwheel effect.
One other obvious difference on the raw 1932 was the design on the edge of the coin. On the PCGS coin, every 90 degrees there is a squarish vertical bar that is equidistant from the adjacent stars. On the raw coin the bars were a crude, tapered-like shape that were closely spaced between the adjacent stars. This was the most glaring difference on the coin and maybe something easy to remember to check on future coins.
In viewing a fake 1910 at my local shop that same weekend, I noted the same proof-like texture with very weak details. The shoulder on the eagle appeared VF/XF. The Indian and eagle appeared almost cameo-like in a foggy silvery haze. The appearance was more medallic than coin-like.
I could post a picture of the 1932 however it shows none of the features listed above due to lack of detail. Having a 10X-20X glass available is always helpful. I felt better in my sleuthing abilities after this incident and have to keep a watchful eye out for bogus coins in the future. And when the seller weighed the coin after the fact it was the correct weight.
roadrunner
The luster is odd and dullish with no change in texture across the devices. What I would call raised tooling marks are a spike at the L in Liberty and at the base of one of the headress feathers. The latter almost appearing as a series of claw marks. Odd tiny blobs and depressions are located on various parts of the coin. The 1 in the date is indistinct at the base while the 3 and 2 have a very plateaued shape rather than rounded as seen on a 1932 PCGS MS64 coin I used for comparison. Next to the PCGS coin, they look worlds apart on the detailing. For a nice AU58 as the raw one would be, it is missing eagle detail on the eagle's shoulder and breast. An odd planchet defect in the headress edge at around 3:00 draws one's attention. There is no sign of die polish or die cracking anywhere on the coin that I could see. 1932's are usually seen with some die polish in protected areas, esp the date area. Worse yet, when dropped, the coin goes "thud" with not a tinge of a "ring" that all struck coins should have. Even in the 2X2 which holds it, it should still ring a tad. Coin appears essentially MS with no wear based on how good the luster is, hence the lack of details are a warning sign. The coin appears somewhat proof-like with a weak cartwheel effect.
One other obvious difference on the raw 1932 was the design on the edge of the coin. On the PCGS coin, every 90 degrees there is a squarish vertical bar that is equidistant from the adjacent stars. On the raw coin the bars were a crude, tapered-like shape that were closely spaced between the adjacent stars. This was the most glaring difference on the coin and maybe something easy to remember to check on future coins.
In viewing a fake 1910 at my local shop that same weekend, I noted the same proof-like texture with very weak details. The shoulder on the eagle appeared VF/XF. The Indian and eagle appeared almost cameo-like in a foggy silvery haze. The appearance was more medallic than coin-like.
I could post a picture of the 1932 however it shows none of the features listed above due to lack of detail. Having a 10X-20X glass available is always helpful. I felt better in my sleuthing abilities after this incident and have to keep a watchful eye out for bogus coins in the future. And when the seller weighed the coin after the fact it was the correct weight.
roadrunner
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Comments
I ran across a counterfiet 1932 $10 thursday that came in to a shop in Greensboro. The dealer had asked my opinion as to wether I thought it would grade UNc, but he didnt know it was bad, a good one with very similar texture and issues the coin you described.
jim
I'm the rest of my family still lives in GSO. Any suggestions on good coin shops to visit next time I'm over? I havent been back since I started seriously collecting again.
You wouldn't believe how long it took to get him to sit still for this.
Gold N Silver Shop west market street in Greensboro, Nc (recent owner change, young guys, but pretty nice and good to work with once they get to know you. There prices will be a little stronger at first glance, but they will work with the more you frequent the place.
AAA Coins & Bullion Randleman RD. I can talk with the owner wayne all day, nice guy, but cant get a deal. One of those that his stuff is primo, and your stuff sucks. No dealer courtesy , so I dont return the favor nor frequent the establishment. I have picked up a decent coin here over a few years due to lack of knowledge?
if you migrate down to Fayetteville, there are three of us down here!
Over in Winston there are two, and a few in Raleigh
jim
Cameron Kiefer
You wouldn't believe how long it took to get him to sit still for this.