Are Capped Bust Halves the most overpriced classic series?

291fifth · December 9, 2007 11:12PM

I'm sorry, but I just think this series is extremely overpriced at current levels. What other classic series do you think is currently overpriced?

jpo1965 · December 9, 2007 11:23PM

I belive them to be under priced myself i'm looking at a 1976 and a 2007 redbook right now for the most part they have only incressed in value by about two or three times . Some rarer one's in upper grades are more but what do i know i think there under priced

1794half1839 · December 9, 2007 11:23PM

If it was overpriced, people would stop buying them up at auction. In the past few years we have seen many large groups come up for sale, the Mohawk Valley Hoard, the Pheonix Collection, Jules Reiver, David Queller, Buddy Byers, Logan, and countless other "non-name" collections, plus all the OTC sales and Mail Bids by dealers and specialists. Most of the coins do very well, as there is demand for them. When the supply excedes the demand, then you are correct, they are over priced at current levels, and economic theory tells us that the prices will correct themselves. Until this happens, nothing can be considered "overpriced."

TahoeDale · December 10, 2007 12:00AM

Yes, the CBH series has prospered for several years and prices for all grades have risen.

But no, the series as a whole, and many of the individual dates and varieties, are still cheap, compared to many other series.

Examples:

The following dates/varieties, in AU 58 and better are amazingly rare or scarce, and pricing has not kept up with demand.

1807 sm and large stars. The 50/20 is available, but the other 2 are almost non-existent in the higher grades.

1808 xxx

1812/1 lg 8

1814 E/A

181.7 p. date

1820 sq date no knob

1823 ugly 3

1827 curl 2

1828 c. 2 no knob

Yes, ther are plenty of AU's, and even lower MS examples for the generic dates, but in Gem, even these are rarely found nice, and prices will continue to go up.

Many pop 1 or 2, highest graded, can still be bought for less than the recent prices for a 1909 s vdb in 66 rd. And the pop of this single date Lincoln in 65 or better is over 4 times higher than all the MS 65 CBH's graded by PCGS.

TwoSides2aCoin · December 10, 2007 12:07AM

With eBay, every coin series is priced fairly. Right ?

dorkkarl · December 10, 2007 12:17AM

seated coins are more overpriced then capped bust

K S

doh · December 10, 2007 12:24AM

I think they're right where they're supposed to be. Northeast Coins posted 100+ CBHs two or three weeks ago and nearly all were sold very quickly. That being said, I don't plan to shell out $1000+ for an AU58 example (although some people obviously are)...even though they are truly beautiful coins.

AU58WALKERS · December 10, 2007 12:27AM

"I don't plan to shell out $1000+ for an AU58 example (although some people obviously are)...even though they are truly beautiful coins. "

I am, Iam!

ziggy29 · December 10, 2007 12:34AM

It's all about supply and demand. Demand is high, therefore prices are high. Look at the '09-S VDB for an extreme example.

rhedden · December 10, 2007 12:42AM

We all got spoiled back in the late 1990s when virtually everything was underpriced. Now the market is just catching up to where it ought to be. I don't care much for capped bust halves in AU58-Unc. grades at current price levels, but they are still quite collectable in VF-AU.

CaptHenway · December 10, 2007 1:13AM

<< It's all about supply and demand. Demand is high, therefore prices are high. Look at the '09-S VDB for an extreme example. >>

Exactly!

walkerman · December 10, 2007 1:54AM

How can anyone call any coin overpriced when really savvy collectors and dealers alike continue to buy them at the current level?
The fact that several buyers? here have stated that they will not buy at present prices only means that they will not buy at present prices. It doesn't establish underpricing or overpricing.

They will obviously settle for lesser quality coins at lesser prices.

If a certain northern Nevada collector is buying at these levels ----- better pay attention. Dave W

David J Weygant Rare Coins website: www.djwcoin.com

jdillane · December 10, 2007 2:01AM

I could be wrong, but suspect the OP was intended to get us going.

Nice, original specimens at all but the lowest grades are increasingly tough to find. I suspect that demand for them will not abate. Will be interesting to see whether the demand continues for the hairlined examples.

SmallEagle · December 10, 2007 2:05AM

<< I'm sorry, but I just think this series is extremely overpriced at current levels. >>

Let me guess. You're looking to buy some at the FUN sale?

Mickley · December 10, 2007 2:18AM

I think they're a bargain and that won't last.

ColonialCoinUnion · December 10, 2007 2:22AM

<< I'm sorry, but I just think this series is extremely overpriced at current levels. >>

Apology accepted.

astrorat · December 10, 2007 2:23AM

Yes! They are extremely OVERPRICED! You hear that CBH dealers? OVERPRICED! Now...reduce those dang prices!

Yes! OVERPRICED...so other CBH collectors...STOP buying them!

Don't even get me started on how overpriced twenty-cent pieces are! Come 'on!

Lane

Arizonadesertrat · December 10, 2007 2:31AM

The nice ones in XF45+ grades aren't overpriced yet. There is an ocean of CBH's that have been cleaned, artificially toned, etc., but the desirable coins are still flying out of dealers' hands.

Generic Morgans seem overpriced to me, and they have dropped in value during the past year. Common classic commems too. Both seem to sit around in dealer inventories, in grades up to MS65, which is an indicator of a lack of collector interest at today's price levels.

IrishMike · December 10, 2007 2:31AM

When folks are paying 8K for a Wisconsin state quarter, its hard for me to agree with the OP.

TahoeDale · December 10, 2007 2:35AM

Mike,

A great set you have assembled. I didn't realize how prophetic I was in listing the tough dates above. Good fortune hunting in finding the ones you still need.

291fifth · December 10, 2007 2:40AM

<< 

<< I'm sorry, but I just think this series is extremely overpriced at current levels. >>

Let me guess. You're looking to buy some at the FUN sale?

>>

I have absolutely no interest in this series. I still remember the days when high grade examples of these were easily available. I can still go to just about any Sunday bourse and see a good number of them, slabbed and unslabbed. If the Sunday bourse dealers have them, they aren't scarce or rare. That's just the way I feel about it.

123cents · December 10, 2007 2:45AM

If you think they are overpriced now wait a couple of years.

dorkkarl · December 10, 2007 5:12AM

<< When folks are paying 8K for a Wisconsin state quarter, its hard for me to agree with the OP.

>>

well said

K S

Goldbully · December 10, 2007 5:18AM

Want to know why these CBH's are so "over-priced"????

Because of beauties like this!!!!!!

walkerman · December 10, 2007 5:20AM

<< 

<< 

<< I'm sorry, but I just think this series is extremely overpriced at current levels. >>

Let me guess. You're looking to buy some at the FUN sale?

>>

I have absolutely no interest in this series.

And this I submit is the main reason you assess an entire series as "overpriced".
I have no interest in eggplant among a few other things.
I therefore feel that any price paid for such things is overpriced.
I can tell if fruits and vegetables and such are overpriced by comparing prices in other stores.
But how can I compare a beautiful coin that exceeds in quality, strike, lustre and eye appeal any others I've seen and make the decision that it is overpriced?
If it's drab, lacklustre and generally fugly I probably wouldn't buy it at any price, so any price asked would be too much for me to pay.
Attend any major auction and watch a run of the same date and grade in any denomination hammer down for incredibly diverse prices.
The underbidders apparently thought the coins they dropped off on went for too much money.
The high bidders got the best coins.
If any collectors view potential purchases on a "what can I resell it for" basis they are actually vest pocket dealers and not collectors at all.
When you're impressed and awed at great collections, remember the owner probably got none of his coins at bargain prices. It just doesn't happen very often. Dave W

MrEureka · December 10, 2007 6:32AM

When the supply excedes the demand, then you are correct, they are over priced at current levels, and economic theory tells us that the prices will correct themselves.

Greg - The supply of Bust Halves is finite and the demand is infinite, so how can supply ever exceed demand?

Barndog · December 10, 2007 6:40AM

Earlier this year, I got a nice 1827 CBH (PCGS AU-58, OGH) for less than $800 and feel like I got away with something.

SeaEagleCoins · December 10, 2007 6:44AM

<< If it was overpriced, people would stop buying them up at auction. In the past few years we have seen many large groups come up for sale, the Mohawk Valley Hoard, the Pheonix Collection, Jules Reiver, David Queller, Buddy Byers, Logan, and countless other "non-name" collections, plus all the OTC sales and Mail Bids by dealers and specialists. Most of the coins do very well, as there is demand for them. When the supply excedes the demand, then you are correct, they are over priced at current levels, and economic theory tells us that the prices will correct themselves. Until this happens, nothing can be considered "overpriced." >>

Nothing is ever overpriced IF there are folks willing to pay the price...

Was the "$5 Million Nickel" overpriced? Sure...for many folks, anyway... that is way more than we could or would be willing to spend on a single coin...however...for those who would and could it was not overpriced...

MrEureka · December 10, 2007 6:46AM

Was the "$5 Million Nickel" overpriced? Sure...for many folks, anyway... that is way more than we could or would be willing to spend on a single coin...however...for those who would and could it was not overpriced...

So was the nickel overpriced until the moment it sold?

Edited to add: And if the buyer was the only person willing to pay $5 million, is it now automatically worth what he can sell it for, which is something less?

I guess the point is that there is no market price for a rare coin, only a market in which the coins trade.

JRocco · December 10, 2007 8:11AM

<< 

<< 

<< I'm sorry, but I just think this series is extremely overpriced at current levels. >>

Let me guess. You're looking to buy some at the FUN sale?

>>

I have absolutely no interest in this series. I still remember the days when high grade examples of these were easily available. I can still go to just about any Sunday bourse and see a good number of them, slabbed and unslabbed. If the Sunday bourse dealers have them, they aren't scarce or rare. That's just the way I feel about it. >>

What series do you collect?

291fifth · December 10, 2007 8:17AM

A coin becomes overpriced when the "greater fool" makes the purchase.

JRocco · December 10, 2007 8:24AM

<< A coin becomes overpriced when the "greater fool" makes the purchase. >>

What series do you collect?

coinkat · December 10, 2007 8:24AM

Bust Halves are attractive and can easily be promoted because they are available. While nice originals are alittle more of a challenge to find, they are available if one goes out and undertakes the hunt. While Dorkkarl suggests Seated coinage is overvalued, I will take exception and argue that original Seated Dollars are far tougher than Bust Halves 1807-1839 in original EF to AU grades.

Folks, its more that supply and demand... it is what coins exist in a quantity that can be promoted. Nothing more... nothing less. Bust Halves hit in to that catagory... and they are promoted.

bidask · December 10, 2007 8:24AM

<< Want to know why these CBH's are so "over-priced"????

Because of beauties like this!!!!!!

>>

Is that rub on the eyebrow and hair curl above it? What is that coin graded?

Goldbully · December 10, 2007 8:31AM

NGC MS64

291fifth · December 10, 2007 8:48AM

<< 

<< A coin becomes overpriced when the "greater fool" makes the purchase. >>

What series do you collect? >>

Right now, nothing. I view the market as fully priced/overpriced and have stepped aside.

Walkerguy21D · December 10, 2007 8:50AM

I would say that the choice examples are fairly priced. But I have to agree that the 'Sunday bourse guys' have plenty of examples in VF to low AU grade, many that have problems, and yet the prices being asked for most of these have advanced right along with the choice specimens. Not to the same level of course, but relative to where they were typically priced a few years ago, I think the price increases have exceeded demand for many of these.
Greg

roadrunner · December 10, 2007 10:07AM

seated coins are more overpriced then capped bust

Spoken by someone who has NOT spent decades researching, buying & selling, and monitoring seated coins. But hey, who cares about a small fact like that?

You'll find that orig XF/AU seated halves are much scarcer than bust halves...and still cost quite a bit less. Just finding problem free orig common dates is a chore....anything pre-1873 that is not ultra common is a good coin. Considering that CDN is off by a factor of 2 to 3 on average for many better date seated coins, there is a lot of catching up to do here. Please sell me all the better O and S mint seated quarters you have in Fine-AU for CDN pricing.
Considering what circ better date Barbers, Standers, Walkers, Mercs, Buffs, etc all bring, the Seated coins are a give-away. I figure that 75% of the 100 or so seated quarter dates/mints are rarer than the 1901-s Barber 25c. Some of those cost $25 in good compared to thousands for the 1901-s.

In the mint state coins, there are many 2nd tier scarcities that are way off in price. I'll mention an 1871-s half in 65 as one. Considering that I've only seen one real gem of this date in 30 years, the CDN price of $6750 seems rather modest. S mint anything in the 1860's and early 1870's is a good place to start in any of the denominations. There are exceptions such as 1865-s quarters that have never excited me....except in gem. An 1847-0 25c, on the CDN in MS64 at $20,000 or so doesn't even exist as far as I can tell. If it does, then $20,000 wouldn't be able to buy it. How about a gem 1857-0 half for CDN bid of $8000? Good luck, as the only certified MS65 example of this date is a cleaned lower end 64 that last auctioned for $7500. A true 65 would run you twice that....and still be irreplaceable imo. While there are some phony rarities in seated coins that bring big bucks, there are many more underrated coins that don't. You can keep the 55-0 and 55-S quarters in mid circ grades for example.

I think bust dollars are more overrated than bust halves. They've had a nice run...and will rest for a long time imo.

Did see one overpriced better date seated 25c this weekend: an EF45 1875-cc. I've always felt this was a 3rd tier date, nothing really special, but decent scarcity. The seller was asking $1500 for it because he said all seated is way underpriced. At 2-1/2X Coin Values for a not so rare date, it seemed like a ton. Maybe it's a $750-$1200 coin. I used to sell VF's for under $100 and XF45's for $200. If anyone wants it for their set, I'll refer you to the seller.

roadrunner

1794half1839 · December 10, 2007 10:29AM

Andy, I believe that was my point, that even the cleaned corroded and problematic coins find homes even if they are Low R.1 Varieties. Truth is most serious collectors enjoy the bust halves, as they are still affordable for many numismatists. They provide a "little something for everyone," and it shows.

ColonialCoinUnion · December 10, 2007 10:31AM

<< 

<< 

<< A coin becomes overpriced when the "greater fool" makes the purchase. >>

What series do you collect? >>

Right now, nothing. I view the market as fully priced/overpriced and have stepped aside. >>

How long ago did you conclude that the market was "fully priced/overpriced" and when did you step aside?

fishteeth · December 10, 2007 11:41AM

Yes, all very overpriced, everyone should go find a new series and leave the busties alone, then perhaps
I could find more of these for 450.00.

Goldbully · December 10, 2007 11:43AM

<< Yes, all very overpriced, everyone should go find a new series and leave the busties alone, then perhaps
I could find more of these for 450.00.

>>

You paid $450 for that rainbow lady????

eBay? Other?

Elcontador · December 10, 2007 11:58AM

Roadrunner imo is probably the most knowledgeable person here re Seated coins, so I'll take his word for it. In grades of MS 64 and better, Seated $s are far more scarce than CBHs. You'll have a far more difficult time finding an acceptable Seated $ in 4 than a CBH in 5, and the dollar (for type) will cost far less.

Might add that the last few CBHs I've seen in 5 were either butt ugly or very pretty AT coins. A disconcerting number of buyers love the slabbed AT coins and write blank checks for them. Various shades of lavender / purple seem to be the flavor of the month.

doh · December 10, 2007 12:23PM

<< Right now, nothing. I view the market as fully priced/overpriced and have stepped aside. >>

Well then, 291, you're not a collector at all. Collectors buy based close to, if not fully, 100% because of the love of the coin, not because the promise of a return on investment. You're an investor/flipper, which is fine of course. You probably already know what I'm telling you.

Nysoto · December 10, 2007 12:32PM

CBH's are priced where they should be. A few years ago collectors like OKbustchaser and FEVER were saying they were the best numismatic bargain around - they were right!

DeusExMachina · December 10, 2007 12:49PM

I don't view the series as overpriced at all. Of course, the supply and demand argument always works. But if you search around, deals can be found. Northeast just sold a large number of attractive CBHs in November. I was late to the show by a few hours and most were already sold.

Overpriced? No way.

Goldbully · December 10, 2007 12:51PM

<< I don't view the series as overpriced at all. Of course, the supply and demand argument always works. But if you search around, deals can be found. Northeast just sold a large number of attractive CBHs in November. I was late to the show by a few hours and most were already sold.

Overpriced? No way. >>

mozin · December 10, 2007 1:58PM

The Don Willis Premier Numismatics collection of PCGS 58 Bust Half Dollars, that recently sold in the B & M auction, brought some of the highest Bustie prices I have ever seen. This set was mostly nicely toned specimens, and I do not believe the prices realized are in any way indicative of current Bust Half pricing.

There has been a large jump in PCGS 58 prices the past six months. I am not sure they will hold at the current level. Many recently have sold for double what Laura Sperber was offering for sight unseen six months ago. I think a common late date PCGS 58 should be worth around $850, not the current $1200.

The number of new Bust Half collectors assures an overall increase in prices throughout the circulated grades. The Baby Boomers, now retiring with lots of time and money, might even decide to collect MS examples. There are not many Overton collectors buying MS Busties. Such a MS Overton set would be tens of millions of dollars.

lordmarcovan · December 10, 2007 2:31PM

<< Are Capped Bust Halves the most overpriced classic series? >>

I just think they've caught up to where they should've been. True, they ain't the bargains they once were, but I'm not sure they're the most overpriced classics yet.

Then again, I'm trying to think of what I would choose as a contenter for that title...

AU58WALKERS · December 10, 2007 3:27PM

"I think a common late date PCGS 58 should be worth around $850, not the current $1200."

I just buought a common late date that I needed for my set. PCGS AU58...$659.00 shippied.
great looking coin with a sharp strike.

bidask · December 10, 2007 3:42PM

Not sure what they are worth but they sure are plentiful from the pop reports.

Are Capped Bust Halves the most overpriced classic series?

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