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Is it time for the mint to crack down on returns?
291fifth
Posts: 25,180 ✭✭✭✭✭
It seems that anything less than "70" is now unacceptable. If I were the mint, I would tighten or eliminate the return privledge on coins/coin sets.
Is this demand for "70" perfection just another sign of the collapse of the ultra-modern market?
Is this demand for "70" perfection just another sign of the collapse of the ultra-modern market?
All glory is fleeting.
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Still, I think there should be policies in place that prevent the *exchange* of sold out products (if there isn't already). If someone returns a sold-out item, they go to the bottom of the waiting list if they want an exchange.
I base it on what the Mint shipped to me, on 3 consecutive occasions - and I never did get a satisfactory set of Unc Plats this year. I gave up after receiving the 3rd set, which has black smudgy crap all over the coins.
I've ordered from the Mint for (43 years?) and these were my first returns ever. Because of cash flow, I didn't order on Day 1. When I did order, for $3,000 - I got scratched coins and dirty coins that had obviously been opened, trashed, and returned by someone else.
Yeah, I'm heavily in favor of changing the return policy.
I knew it would happen.
(My paraphrase)
"All coins in YOUR set are as they were intended.
If you feel they are substandard, it is because you don't know what you are talking about!"
DON'T SEND THEM BACK!
<< <i>The practice is being abused... that will force a change.. to the detriment of honest collectors. Cheers, RickO >>
Just a matter of time before they decide to change their easily abused policy.
<< <i>It seems that anything less than "70" is now unacceptable. If I were the mint, I would tighten or eliminate the return privledge on coins/coin sets.
Is this demand for "70" perfection just another sign of the collapse of the ultra-modern market? >>
It makes no difference to me either way. If the Mint is happy with their return policy, why change it? I buy a few coins from the Mint every year, and I have never returned one. If something came with a naked eye obvious detracting mark or hit, I would return it. Perfect "70" coins are like Bo Derek and unicorns, as far as I am concerned.
<< <i>
<< <i>Perfect "70" coins are like Bo Derek and unicorns, as far as I am concerned. >>
That puts a cramp on some of the UNSCRUPULOUS people who dump on others.
It would be great if they had a way of only replacing returned coins with coins that had also been returned.
Returns, Replacements, and Exchanges
If for any reason within 30 days of receiving your product you are dissatisfied with your purchase, return the entire product for refund or replacement. Shipping charges will not be refunded.
The United States Mint will not accept partial returns nor will it issue partial refunds. For example, if you receive a United States Mint Silver Proof Set™ where one coin is in unacceptable condition, you must return the entire Proof Set, not just the one coin, to receive a refund.
To return your product, use the reverse side of your packing slip to let us know why you decided to return your item(s) and your desired resolution (replacement, refund, or exchange) for each item. Use the provided return label or address your package to:
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
and they can be dealt with easily enough. Since there is no evidence
of this then one is led to believe it's not much of a problem.
The first step would probably be to not accept partial returns on large
orders. If some still abused this, and they might, they could be disal-
lowed from reordering. They could at least limit returns on large orders
to the overall return rate which is probably around 2%.
It would be easy to see how badly the policy is being abused by com-
paring return quality to average quality. There should be a substantial
difference and returned sets should be routinely destroyed.
The return policy is intended to favor the American Citizen.
Let us not tamper with the present policy which is favorable to the
collector.
Camelot
<< <i>Let us not tamper with the present policy which is favorable to the
collector. >>
But *is* it favorable to the collector -- or is it favorable to the flipper/speculator/reseller trying to cherrypick some 70s?
Ultimately this has a cost to the Mint and thus to other collectors who don't play these games.
<< <i>
<< <i>Let us not tamper with the present policy which is favorable to the
collector. >>
But *is* it favorable to the collector -- or is it favorable to the flipper/speculator/reseller trying to cherrypick some 70s?
Ultimately this has a cost to the Mint and thus to other collectors who don't play these games. >>
Oh puh-lease!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I don't think it points to a collapse of that market but I do think it shows what the market for some Mint products has become. I think the Mint brought this on themselves in some ways. Some of their policies seem to encourage speculation in the aftermarket, and in that sense they are reaping what they have sown.
Still, I think there should be policies in place that prevent the *exchange* of sold out products (if there isn't already). If someone returns a sold-out item, they go to the bottom of the waiting list if they want an exchange. >>
<< <i>Should we go back to the early 60s when the PROOF and Mint Sets had a tersely worded piece of pink or yellow paper that stated something to the effect of:
(My paraphrase)
"All coins in YOUR set are as they were intended.
If you feel they are substandard, it is because you don't know what you are talking about!"
<STRONG>DON'T</STRONG> SEND THEM BACK! >>
i do believe i remember that!
<< <i>Oh puh-lease!
Your enlightening, wise and thought-provoking rebuttal is noted.
that favors collectors. The rest of the Mint
policies are somewhat confusing and detrimental.
There will always be folks who will game the system.
Are we really in favor of screwing the average collector
to try to stop these gamers. Further. It would appear that the
majority of collectors do some flipping in order to pay for the items
they keep for their collections. The phrase(Those without sin
cast the first stone) seems to apply here.
Remember, I have as much right to be wrong as you have to be right.
After all, I am just an old, tired bear.
Camelot
<< <i>Should we go back to the early 60s when the PROOF and Mint Sets had a tersely worded piece of pink or yellow paper that stated something to the effect of:
(My paraphrase)
"All coins in YOUR set are as they were intended.
If you feel they are substandard, it is because you don't know what you are talking about!"
<STRONG>DON'T</STRONG> SEND THEM BACK! >>
This one.
Hoard the keys.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I might add that this was way before the US Mint decided to target the coin collecting community as a source of annual revenue. >>
I believe you started this thread idea because of your brash disregard for ethical practices and your brash posting of this info in an open forum. Be proud of your posts, they speak well of your ethics and contributions to the coin collecting community which are zero.
<< <i>I might add that this was way before the US Mint decided to target the coin collecting community as a source of annual revenue. >>
ummm.....proof coins were made as a method of manufacture, and as such were specifically targeting the coin collectors to buy them and save them. To say this wasn't a money generating thing for the Mint is silly
<< <i>
<< <i>I might add that this was way before the US Mint decided to target the coin collecting community as a source of annual revenue. >>
I believe you started this thread idea because of your brash disregard for ethical practices and your brash posting of this info in an open forum. Be proud of your posts, they speak well of your ethics and contributions to the coin collecting community which are zero. >>
O-o-o-o-o-o
You have absolutely no idea what I do or what I collect or even what my ethics are based on! The only thing your "follow the crowd" little mentality is aware of is that I am returning a coin to the US Mint that I decided I did not want!
As for you Mr Doogy, the US Mint put limitations on the number of proof sets that could be ordered by collectors. Usually 5 was the maximum unless you were creative and got yourself multiple account numbers. Then you could order more than five but only in multiples of five.
Proof sets were manufactured according to the number ordered and not mass produced in the millions as they are today. This accounts for the low mintages of early 50's proof sets. Today, you can order as many proof sets as your credit card will allow.
That is a huge difference in marketing strategy and the amount of money they make today is astronimical compared to when those little notices were placed in each and every proof set.
You've been targeted.
The name is LEE!
by everyone, everywhere, all the time. Sometimes,
I feel like a tuna fish in the middle of a fleet of
fishing boats.
Camelot
<< <i>There will always be folks who will game the system. >>
This just puts a magnifying glass on the ethics of our society and the ethics of this "hobby".
Dose not look to good IMO.
nothing looks too good.
Camelot
<< <i>It seems that anything less than "70" is now unacceptable. If I were the mint, I would tighten or eliminate the return privledge on coins/coin sets.
Is this demand for "70" perfection just another sign of the collapse of the ultra-modern market? >>
The" ultra modern market" is nowhere near "collapse" , numismatically speaking.
Why punish the people with inferior goods by not accepting returns on low quality ?
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
GET OVER IT. The US Mint return policy is a policy because they HAVE thought about it... It isn't up to any of us to suggest that anyone, collector for flipper, is somehow taking advantage of the system. And for people to take passive aggressive stances is just absurd.
A great analogy to your complaint is the following: You buy something from Best Buy. Get it home and find out it isn't what you thought it was, you can find it cheaper, your wife is mad you bought it, you don't like it, you can't sell it on eBay for more, or you have buyers remorse. You take your receipt back to Best Buy and ask for your money back. Do you think that is wrong? Do you think they should "crack down on returns"? I mean, Best Buy sure would have been better off if they had sold it to someone that wouldn't have had an option to return it. You are making Best Buy keep someone on staff to handle your return, restock it, and not to mention lost profit.
<< <i>This just puts a magnifying glass on the ethics of our society and the ethics of this "hobby".
Dose not look to good IMO. >>
Absurd
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>Absurd >>
Like I said.
Box of 20
<< <i>
<< <i>Absurd >>
Like I said. >>
Indeed
<< <i>Get a life everyone. Do you think for a second the United States Mint doesn't keep track of the cost for their return policy? I don't mean to speak so harshly but the US Mint has this taken care of folks. If it WERE a problem for the United States Mint, they would put a stop to it quicker than they will cancel your order because you placed it .0001 seconds before the item was officially on sale. The mint probably has MORE collectors because of their return policy…..
GET OVER IT. The US Mint return policy is a policy because they HAVE thought about it... It isn't up to any of us to suggest that anyone, collector for flipper, is somehow taking advantage of the system. And for people to take passive aggressive stances is just absurd.
A great analogy to your complaint is the following: You buy something from Best Buy. Get it home and find out it isn't what you thought it was, you can find it cheaper, your wife is mad you bought it, you don't like it, you can't sell it on eBay for more, or you have buyers remorse. You take your receipt back to Best Buy and ask for your money back. Do you think that is wrong? Do you think they should "crack down on returns"? I mean, Best Buy sure would have been better off if they had sold it to someone that wouldn't have had an option to return it. You are making Best Buy keep someone on staff to handle your return, restock it, and not to mention lost profit. >>
So then, you would go to Best Buy and purchase 25 Flat Screen Plasma TV's, watch them all and then only keep the one with the best picture and return the other 24???
Thats insane and abusive of the return policy and it is exactly what some people are doing to the US Mint.
This is causing some of the stores to be more restrictive with their return policy (ie...restocking fees for open box, etc).
Costco used to allow unlimited returns on almost everything (6 months on PCs). Due to abuses, they have 90 day return period for most electronics now (cameras, TVs, etc).
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Actually, people DO go to best buy (and other retailers) and purchase a TV right before the superbowl then return them just after.
This is causing some of the stores to be more restrictive with their return policy (ie...restocking fees for open box, etc).
Costco used to allow unlimited returns on almost everything (6 months on PCs). Due to abuses, they have 90 day return period for most electronics now (cameras, TVs, etc). >>
Yeah but are they buying 25 of them at a time to cherry pick the best. Thats abusive.
Also, if you could go to a retail US Mint store and inspect the coins before buying you could be selective - just like you do when you go to a B&M. With mail order you cannot.
(My paraphrase)
"All coins in YOUR set are as they were intended.
If you feel they are substandard, it is because you don't know what you are talking about!"
That was more typical of customer service in the '60's. Today, it's more of a no-questions-asked policy, with the exception of the restrictions at some retailers mentioned above. I think it could be handled on an exception basis, such as restricting accounts for abusers, rather than changing the policy for everyone. "No returns for anyone" is obviously not an option.
bulk
Box of 20
I will say this. I do know that a generous return policy results in higher sales and I'm sure the Mint see this as well. For every ten speculators that are prompted to make a purchase because they know they can return it later if the market goes south in 30 days, the coin is not a 70, etc., there is probably less than one that actually utilized the return privilege.
The Mint clearly has to have a return privilege for problem items. I'm sure it is easier to just take all returns than to try and have staff figure out if a return is permitted under a restrictive return privilege and fight credit card chargebacks on denied returns.
WH
<< <i>Yeah but are they buying 25 of them at a time to cherry pick the best. Thats abusive. >>
While I have not heard any complaints "from the mint" about returns, perhaps better QA during production and packaging would reduce the number of returns that the mint gets.
On large in-store purchases, I do open the box and inspect the item. Scratched, damaged, broken, dinged, or otherwise unacceptable items are exchanged on the spot. But since the mint conducts most of its business online and delivers via the mail, no such on-site process inspection process can occur.
That being said, this is the first year that I have returned anything to the mint. I returned a SanFran commem gold coin that popped out of its container and was damaged. I returned several uncirculated sets that had damaged packaging, and damaged coins. I also returned several 4-coin presidential proof sets. The coins in the proof sets and the uncirculated sets had MAJOR dings, scrapes, scratches, finger prints, etc. that don't require the use of a loupe, holding the coin at any specific angle, etc., etc. in order to see.
I did NOT return them because they would not grade as 70s. I DID return them because they had obvious and major flaws visible under "normal" viewing conditions.
I've been collecting mint sets and proof sets directly from the mint for almost 20 years and this year is BY FAR the worst lot of coins I have ever received.
Eric
<< <i>
<< <i>Yeah but are they buying 25 of them at a time to cherry pick the best. Thats abusive. >>
While I have not heard any complaints "from the mint" about returns, perhaps better QA during production and packaging would reduce the number of returns that the mint gets.
On large in-store purchases, I do open the box and inspect the item. Scratched, damaged, broken, dinged, or otherwise unacceptable items are exchanged on the spot. But since the mint conducts most of its business online and delivers via the mail, no such on-site process inspection process can occur.
That being said, this is the first year that I have returned anything to the mint. I returned a SanFran commem gold coin that popped out of its container and was damaged. I returned several uncirculated sets that had damaged packaging, and damaged coins. I also returned several 4-coin presidential proof sets. The coins in the proof sets and the uncirculated sets had MAJOR dings, scrapes, scratches, finger prints, etc. that don't require the use of a loupe, holding the coin at any specific angle, etc., etc. in order to see.
I did NOT return them because they would not grade as 70s. I DID return them because they had obvious and major flaws visible under "normal" viewing conditions.
I've been collecting mint sets and proof sets directly from the mint for almost 20 years and this year is BY FAR the worst lot of coins I have ever received.
Eric >>
That is EXACTLY what the return policy was set up for. I would hate to see the return policy changed if it would have a negative effect on the collector.
It was not set up for the buyer who would buy 25-50 sets with the intent of only keeping 1-5 sets.
Or for that matter, the buyer who would buy 25-50 sets with the intent of only keeping them past the 30 day return policy if they were able to sell them at a profit.