just checked my 2006 w unc ase's ngc 69..........not good...

SUMORADA · November 20, 2007 2:52AM

I have been checking these every couple months, they are in a TL30 jewelers safe, out of 100 I checked 25 were like this...................MILK

Anybody know how NGC handles these?

57loaded · November 20, 2007 3:01AM

pcgs has a spot review where they will either regrade down a few to maybe a 67 or offer a buy-out, NGC must do the same.

sad sad sad about the milk issue.

i was checking some slabbed monthly in my SDB and I had dessicant in there and then noticed some problems on proofs so went the food-saver vacuum seal route.

what are the conditions inside the safe as far as humidity and temperature?

i'd try to conserve what you have by vacuum sealing the slabs in food-saver bags and dip any raw 2006-W in acetone you may have left, heck you might even crack out the 69's and dip them, too....75 is a lot of work.

i have seen this in OGP capsules, too, but slabbing will precipitate an inevitable...IMHO

pf70collector · November 20, 2007 3:04AM

I feel your pain. I resubmitted some PCGS to try for 70's with no spotting and 2 came back with severe spotting. It was a mistake to resubmit. They were exposed to air I believe between grading and re encapsulation. They were also sent in twice( so they were exposed to the air even longer). Because the first round they were place in First Strike holders but they were not First Strike just regular 20th Anniversary labels. Who knows in about 10 years the raw versions will all develop the spotting and high grade examples(70's) might become rare. I still believe encapsulation is the best bet since they protect these better than the original mint capsules unless you vacuum seal them like some forum members do.
The series I admit are at risk to spotting. However I have NGC PF 70's that have not developed spots in the 3 years that I have them. Its a crap shoot as to which ones will develop spots but I love the series too much to give them up.

TwoSides2aCoin · November 20, 2007 3:17AM

I still think if better care were taken in the rinsing/drying of the metal prior to "punching" the planchets, that this would not occur. It's a theory, but it's the only one I think will work. The drying of these strips need air and rotation. This is a layman's brain thinking.

ricko · November 20, 2007 3:23AM

If only (and at the risk of being repetitive), one of our board members, with access to a scanning electron microscope or atomic absorption unit would subject these 'milk spots' to analysis, we may get an idea of the composition and thereby determine root cause - and even possibly, corrective action. I do not understand why, despite repeated entreaties, this has not happened. Without positive identification, nothing can be done. Cheers, RickO

tahoe98 · November 20, 2007 3:24AM

someone needs enlightening...................but who? it's a problem that certainly needs fixing.

57loaded · November 20, 2007 3:28AM

<< If only (and at the risk of being repetitive), one of our board members, with access to a scanning electron microscope or atomic absorption unit would subject these 'milk spots' to analysis, we may get an idea of the composition and thereby determine root cause - and even possibly, corrective action. I do not understand why, despite repeated entreaties, this has not happened. Without positive identification, nothing can be done. Cheers, RickO >>

you wouldn't need an electron microscope but it puzzles me as well that nothing has been investigated that the public is aware of.

Bochiman · November 20, 2007 3:40AM

<< If only (and at the risk of being repetitive), one of our board members, with access to a scanning electron microscope or atomic absorption unit would subject these 'milk spots' to analysis, we may get an idea of the composition and thereby determine root cause - and even possibly, corrective action. I do not understand why, despite repeated entreaties, this has not happened. Without positive identification, nothing can be done. Cheers, RickO >>

If I had the knowledge and the equipment, I sure would. PCGS has offered what? $50,000 for a solution?
If I had the right stuff to go for it I certainly would

pf70collector · November 20, 2007 3:45AM

Does the mint now a solution but it is too costly to implement. Let the conspiracy theories commence.

Amigo · November 20, 2007 3:58AM

It's a sure bet that in the coming years, the problem free ones will fetch some nice premiums that have made it thru a significant stretch of time, thereby ensuring no spotting. The pop's of these may be going down by a third or more.

ttown · November 20, 2007 3:59AM

Boy oh Boy, I think the flippers got this one right. I'd hate to have one of these as a "long term" hold.

SUMORADA · November 20, 2007 4:06AM

I think I'm gonna crack one out and try some things........I will do it with this one and keep you posted !

edited to add, I just spoke with NGC, they said to bring them in for review,at that point they would determine if they could be "Conserved", if not they would be replaced or they would buy them at a fair market price..........

Bochiman · November 20, 2007 4:25AM

Yuck....NGC "fair market value".
A lot of their 69 grades go for ~, or less than, issue price on many things.

ModernCrapNut · November 20, 2007 5:21AM

I imagine that PCGS has spent a fair amount of money searching for an answer and/or cure for the problem. This has to be costing them some major bucks and they have too much at stake to be doing nothing.

57loaded · November 20, 2007 5:26AM

<< 

<< If only (and at the risk of being repetitive), one of our board members, with access to a scanning electron microscope or atomic absorption unit would subject these 'milk spots' to analysis, we may get an idea of the composition and thereby determine root cause - and even possibly, corrective action. I do not understand why, despite repeated entreaties, this has not happened. Without positive identification, nothing can be done. Cheers, RickO >>

If I had the knowledge and the equipment, I sure would. PCGS has offered what? $50,000 for a solution?
If I had the right stuff to go for it I certainly would >>

where'd you hear that $50k?

if they'd stop giving money away for incused sacs and incused planchets, they'd be more than half way there and also getting a helluva lot of business slabbing this volitile in nature .999 silver

Texast · November 20, 2007 5:32AM

<< where'd you hear that $50k? >>

HRH himself posted that on the board here a couple weeks ago.

<< if they'd stop giving money away for incused sacs and incused planchets, they'd be more than half way there and also getting a helluva lot of business slabbing this volitile in nature .999 silver >>

For the writeups they get nationwide for paying these rewards they get advertising that could not be bought for ten times the price. Marketing 101

jessewvu · November 20, 2007 8:25AM

I feel your pain

57loaded · November 20, 2007 8:27AM

<< 

<< where'd you hear that $50k? >>

HRH himself posted that on the board here a couple weeks ago.

<< if they'd stop giving money away for incused sacs and incused planchets, they'd be more than half way there and also getting a helluva lot of business slabbing this volitile in nature .999 silver >>

For the writeups they get nationwide for paying these rewards they get advertising that could not be bought for ten times the price. Marketing 101 >>

can someone link that post, please?

Bochiman · November 20, 2007 8:45AM

Hey, Sumorada, please let us know what NGC considers the market price on these when you send them in, ok?
I am curious (but, I don't have any NGC ones and none are spotted anyway)

SUMORADA · November 20, 2007 9:13AM

I'll post whatever happens on these...............maybe I should keep-um until the price goes back up

pitboss · November 20, 2007 11:30AM

I sealed all mine. I checked them this afternoon and they are fine

7over8 · November 20, 2007 1:06PM

can anyone elaborate on how much the TPG has paid on a spotted 69 or a spotted 70??? Did they pay the diff between a 70 or 69 and the reduced spotted grade? How much was that on average..?

Deadhorse · November 20, 2007 1:14PM

<< i was checking some slabbed monthly in my SDB and I had dessicant in there and then noticed some problems on proofs so went the food-saver vacuum seal route.

what are the conditions inside the safe as far as humidity and temperature?

i'd try to conserve what you have by vacuum sealing the slabs in food-saver bags and dip any raw 2006-W in acetone you may have left, heck you might even crack out the 69's and dip them, too....75 is a lot of work.

i have seen this in OGP capsules, too, but slabbing will precipitate an inevitable...IMHO >>

I've had much better luck with MS70 on milk spots than anything else. FWIW, Zip-Lock freezer bags give you a much better seal than those vacuum food saver bags. Toss in a couple of desiccant packs and you can squeeze out 99% of the air out before sealing it up.

Knock wood, but I've been lucky with ASEs, the milk spots I've had are on 90% silver proofs.

smokincoin · November 20, 2007 1:18PM

Anyone spoken to the mint about it? After all, they are the ones who made them and from what I understand a few of them are spotting in the capsules. Surely someone, an editor perhaps, can get some kind of excuse out of them!

Coll3ctor · November 20, 2007 1:38PM

Is there any way to remore these spots short of using a wire wheel or grinder ???

just checked my 2006 w unc ase's ngc 69..........not good...

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