Recycling at the US Mint? Tell me it isn't so!
Griv
Posts: 2,804 ✭
I just received a order from the Mint for the Plat uncirculated W one oz coins and all but one was upside down in the plastic coin holder and one even had a sticker on the bottom of the box that said “damaged.” As you would guess they all had glaring flaws and even a couple scratches. They all went back for another try but it seems like we might be in for a lot of recycled pick-overs. Has anyone seen this before? I have never had an order come from the Mint before that I suspected as a recycle.
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Totally unacceptable.
I once ordered silver proof sets late in the year. 6 out of 10 had fingerprints, cracked plastic, or other splotchy surface damage that made them unacceptable as gifts.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I just received 99 silver proofs and two boxes were empty - another 55 were not acceptable and sent back. >>
Whoa, they're still selling those? I though 1999s sold out years ago!
Melt em then fire up the presses for another run?
This aspect if the US Mint is a business and if one customer doesn't like it, then possibly another one will and yes I have received what I thought were recycled mint products! I just send them back and try to get my order in earlier next time. Its all the luck of the draw IMO.
The name is LEE!
Wondercoin
A lot of times when I send back for a replacement, the next coin is good. A theory may be, they don't try to push another 'recycled' coin on you after a return.
<< <i>Griv - I believe the mintage figures on the $100 Plat MS DROPPED close to 300 coins over the past 30 day period demonstrating to me 300++ returns over the past month!!(?) Was this folks speculating on Platinum spot breaking $1,500 earlier this month? I am informed folks did speculate on the Proof Gold coins and did quite well - heck, how can you do poorly with a no questions asked 30 day return policy and a free look at the metals market for 30 days?
Wondercoin >>
I'm sure you are right but I get the feeling it's really getting abused. I alway buy on issue and then at the end of the year and I am seeing plats that would grade at 68. I think coins returned as "damaged" should be destroyed but I'm sure that would get abused as well. What's a collector to do?
<< <i>What would you folks expect them to do?
Melt em then fire up the presses for another run? >>
YES!!! It's called quality control.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
But - there is a simple answer to the problem - the mint should change its return privilege from 30 days to 10 days on precious metal items. That would stop 95%+ of the abuse I suspect. And, who needs more than 10 days to inspect their coins - Griv took 10 minutes!
Wondercoin
I Plead Guilty!
<< <i>Griv - IMHO - it is INCREDIBLY ABUSED.
But - there is a simple answer to the problem - the mint should change its return privilege from 30 days to 10 days on precious metal items. That would stop 95%+ of the abuse I suspect. And, who needs more than 10 days to inspect their coins - Griv took 10 minutes!
Wondercoin >>
They don't care about the date of purchase. You can ship back your 2007 Jamestown coins today that were purchased in January and they would give you a refund.
Hope you have better luck next time around.
you should send a registered letter to the man MOY!
<< <i>
<< <i>What would you folks expect them to do?
Melt em then fire up the presses for another run? >>
YES!!! It's called quality control. >>
If only it were as simple as that!
I'm certain a process like that would take months to accomplish. The tracking and accounting would be a nightmare!
The best bet is to just find someone that simply wants the bullion (which is the entire basis of the offering) and doesn't care about the quality of the coin. Us numismatist are the folks looking for high quality MS70 stuff for our collections without regard for the intrinsic bullion value.
<< <i>Congressionally authorized American Eagle Bullion Coins provide investors with a convenient and cost-effective way to add a small amount of physical platinum, gold, or silver to their investment portfolios. Since their launch in 1986, gold, platinum and silver American Eagles have become leading bullion coin investment products. >>
As a collector I always look for and expect the best from the US Mint but many investors could care less. To expect the US Mint to start a new production run just to replace the poor quality stuff that slips through is a little silly.
However, from a quality control standpoint at the distribution center, to ship out a box that says "damaged" on the bottom of it is very poor quality control not mention the shipping of "empty" boxes.
What I'm thinking here is that the US Mint does a great job but once their product reaches the Distribution Center its any bodies guess!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Griv - IMHO - it is INCREDIBLY ABUSED.
But - there is a simple answer to the problem - the mint should change its return privilege from 30 days to 10 days on precious metal items. That would stop 95%+ of the abuse I suspect. And, who needs more than 10 days to inspect their coins - Griv took 10 minutes!
Wondercoin >>
you couldn't be more right on this one
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
You should write Edmund Moy and also put it into the papers (NN and CW).
Would have been good if you had taken a picture as well.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>
<< <i>I just received 99 silver proofs and two boxes were empty - another 55 were not acceptable and sent back. >>
Whoa, they're still selling those? I though 1999s sold out years ago!
I had the exact same though when I first read it. Then figured it out on the second read. Glad to see I'm not the only one that got caught by that for a second or two.
You wouldn't believe how long it took to get him to sit still for this.
<< <i>They claimed they don't do that.
You should write Edmund Moy and also put it into the papers (NN and CW).
Would have been good if you had taken a picture as well. >>
yep! MOY should be enlightened.
This should keep them out of the supply chain.
But, who knows, many of those mint employees probably have trouble reading as it is.
BTW, the 07W PLATS seem to re re-cycling quite a bit - the recent orders filled have been crappy and they are struck from different die pairs....meaning there must not be a "fresh" pile being shipped.
<< <i>
<< <i>What would you folks expect them to do?
Melt em then fire up the presses for another run? >>
YES!!! It's called quality control. >>
I have to agree. The fact that damaged products get sent out in the first place is beyond me. But to put the returns right back in the sell pile is total BS. If the holder is cracked or damaged in some way, pop out the coin(s) and place it in an undamaged one. If the coin itself is flawed, melt that one down and replace it with a new one. (When I say new one, I mean new as in new to the set, not to mint new coins)
With the kind of money we spend on US Mint products, I expect a hell of a lot better than what I've been getting. Since 2000, this is the FIRST year I didn't have to return the Proof and Silver Proof Sets that I purchased. With every set it was damaged holders or flawed coins or the coins weren't set properly. Sometimes a combination of those problems. And I ALWAYS order very early. Within the first 3 days. So far the only problem I've yet to have is the outer packaging. That's always been fine.
PS.
I LIKE IKEs!
The obverse and reverse dies on the coins I ordered in one order show obvious die markers that are different.
If the coins were struck and delivered to the so-called "warehouse" in the order in which they are stuck and packaged, I would expect to receive coins from the same die pairs, unless I was the recipient of coins in the mix where dies were switched out.
A more logical conclusion is that the coins received were returns that were recycled out of a group of coins struck from different die pairs.
If we believe these are stuck to demand, and the FIFO method applies (first in, first out), coins ordered late in the game that do not show deviation in die charactaristics must be from the last group struck.....
I believe there is a way to stop these from being recycled - be sure to check the box "DAMAGED" when you return these coins and write the nature of the damage on the line below on the USM return tag (on the bottom of the invoice).....
I write "surface imperfections, do not re-sell" when I find problems with the coins, and as long as they abide by thier rules, they should not re-sell.
I also write "DAMAGED" in large black Permanent Marker on the return tag and also large and prominent is the word "REFUND" or "REPLACE" depending on what option is chosen.
However, it is far to easy for customers to check the "Do not Want" box, because they may think that they have to explain themselves by checking any other reason before a refund is granted (which is NOT TRUE - your refund is granted as fast as any other).
<< <i>What makes you think they are from different die pairs and why would that indicate a "fresh" batch? It seems that the Mint might be using reverse dies from previous years since they show no date so how what are your views on this? >>
but....these coins aren't from PCGS, so who knows what you have, right? You can't trust the US Mint, you'd better send them to PCGS to tell you how to grade these
<< <i>I received 6 coins about three weeks ago, three 1oz Plat Proof and three .5oz Plat Proof. All of them were upside down, one had fingerprints on it. I sent them back... That was about three weeks ago and I am still waiting for them to issue the refund. Nothing like having 7k on a credit card collecting interest while they take their time to issue a refund. >>
At one point I was told that refunds over $300 require additional processing. The three-week timeframe sounds about right, as long as you get your funds reimbursed in the next several days. Also -- and pardon me if this is obvious -- use a credit card with a balance paid in full every month, so you have at least a 30-day grace period before interest starts accruing.
<< <i>
<< <i>What makes you think they are from different die pairs and why would that indicate a "fresh" batch? It seems that the Mint might be using reverse dies from previous years since they show no date so how what are your views on this? >>
but....these coins aren't from PCGS, so who knows what you have, right? You can't trust the US Mint, you'd better send them to PCGS to tell you how to grade these >>
You are so right.
IMO, if an MS69 or PF69 is acceptable, it might be less hassle and possibly cheaper to just buy a graded coin (with original mint packaging included) from the secondary market.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>IMO, if an MS69 or PF69 is acceptable, it might be less hassle and possibly cheaper to just buy a graded coin (with original mint packaging included) from the secondary market. >>
Absolutely. That's why is nice to have flippers out there.
<< <i>check the box "DAMAGED" when you return these coins and write the nature of the damage on the line below on the USM return tag (on the bottom of the invoice).....
I write "surface imperfections, do not re-sell" when I find problems with the coins, and as long as they abide by their rules, they should not re-sell.
I also write "DAMAGED" in large black Permanent Marker on the return tag and also large and prominent is the word "REFUND" or "REPLACE" depending on what option is chosen. >>
Thanks 7over8. But I'm way ahead of you. I always appropriately mark all of the return paper work as damaged or flawed and I then explain (in detail) the type of damage and/or flaw(s). I also include a typed letter explaining all problems. The last thing I do is phone the US Mint, give them the order #, explain to them that I'm returning the item, why and that I want a replacement. I also tell them to make a note of my call on my account with all the information I've given them regarding the return.
And just because I don't want other collectors/dealers to be disappointed like I have been, as well as dealing with the hassle of returns, I've always marked everything do not re-sell. Until reading this topic, I thought I didn't need to bother writing that. After the first 2 or 3 times, it became habit. I never thought they would re-sell products w/o correcting the defects. Now I'm glad that I do it. Of course the US Mint sure doesn't have to do what I say, but I feel better knowing I've done everything possible to keep a flawed product from being purchased again.
PS.
I LIKE IKEs!