Is eBay the problem...or are you the problem?
291fifth
Posts: 25,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
eBay's recent regulations regarding coins may not have been very well thought out, but they do indicate that they are trying to address real problems. The coin catagory had become a cesspool of fakes, alterations, inaccurate grading, etc.
Are your listings truthful or do you fudge things a bit in an effort to get that last dollar?
eBay's next step may be to abolish the coin catagory altogether. Would you like that? Think about what it would be like if you had to go back to being at the mercy of your local dealers.
Not a pleasant thought, is it?
Are your listings truthful or do you fudge things a bit in an effort to get that last dollar?
eBay's next step may be to abolish the coin catagory altogether. Would you like that? Think about what it would be like if you had to go back to being at the mercy of your local dealers.
Not a pleasant thought, is it?
All glory is fleeting.
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I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand to post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!
<< <i>but IMHO I would suggest that the coin area for Ebay is very lucrative and probally comprises a significant portion of their bottom dollar. >>
The coins category amounts to approximately 1% of total eBay listings.
Russ, NCNE
Ebay is still our best place available for anyone to buy and sell coins. Period.
I will argue this all day.
However, it is plain to everyone that it is not the 'great' Ebay that it used to be. Higher fees, crazy new rules, influx of counterfeiters who are able to circumvent Ebay's new rules, makes it extremely frustrating for the rest of us 'honest' sellers/buyers.
To address your first point, I think we are all guilty of a little 'hype' in our descriptions. This is normal human nature. It is commonplace for anyone who has actively bought and sold any goods in the open market. There will always be this little 'grey' area of quality. If kept within reason, there is nothing wrong with it. So why bring in these crazy rules.
No system is perfect and introducing all these new rules will not eliminate the 'cheaters'. They will always try to find new ways to beat the system.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
A very scary thought indeed.
I would suspect though that new online alternatives would then open up. It would be the same cesspool that ebay was though.
Personally, I agree with their efforts. It will just take some time for some of the bugs to get worked out.
I have a bigger problem with their Paypal site. I think it should be illegal for them to kill auctions that state the seller will accept paypal only if funded thru an e-check. I wished their was an alternative site for payment, but of course they won't allow the linkage to the auctions. Will one of you lawyers sue them over that - if MS can't monopolize software, why does ebay get to monopolize payments.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand to post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!
<< <i>Russ, 1% is considerable. But for all the headaches this category is seemingly creating for EBAY, I could see how they may just wash their hands of it. Whatever happened to caveat emptor? Ultimately it isnt the numerous fakes, alterations, and overgraded coins that are causing problems. It simply is UNDEREDUCATED buyers. If I see a raw coin on EBAY that im interested in buying, after studying the coin for awhile, I usually bid 10-15 points back of the seller's grade. If I dont win the coin because of my conservative approach, oh well. If John Q. Schmuk casually buys a current price guide and sees an 1833 bust half is worth $8,000 in MS 65 condition, then buys one on EBAY in an NNC 65 slab for $4,000, shame on him for not doing his research! Who the hell is EBAY to completely trash TPG's other than the big 4? And no, I dont sell generic TPG slabs on EBAY. My guess is that 98 out of every 100 EBAY employees wouldnt know the difference between a Trade and Seated dollar. So its IMPOSSIBLE for them to accurately police the thousands of listings that pop up each day. When all is said and done, on EBAY or at a show, or at a B&M shop, let the buyer beware! >>
It's not a major headache. Ebay has had much bigger problems that it's had to deal with.
It was certainly something ebay had to deal with, but was not all too significant.
<< <i>Look, let's be frank about all this.
Ebay is still our best place available for anyone to buy and sell coins. Period.
>>
Sell coins? Maybe. Buy coins? No way.
Ebay is good for the occasional esoteric item. Maybe some registry coins too, and of course the occasional rip. But I'm sure that anyone with a decent B & M in their area would say they'd rather go there than buy off ebay.
<< <i>But I'm sure that anyone with a decent B & M in their area would say they'd rather go there than buy off ebay. >>
I do both. Fact is, though, the B&M's in my area carry just about the same stuff that can be found on eBay.
Russ, NCNE
In my case the new policy did not address selling duplicate moderns in a multiple item auction. I proactively discussed it with my account manager and Trust and Safety but the drones were unable to implement what we agreed to. So I put a photo of front and back of every coin in a multi coin auction --that's 80 coins. And then when I used the "Send to online auction" feature my listing has 80 photos in it but I'm only selling one set. They said "that's fine, the coins you're selling are pictured". Now they're pulling those--probably thinking having so many photos is misleading. They just didn't have a plan for multiple moderns.
I'd be glad for ebay to get out of the business. I believe it they didn't have to tackle ebay a coin specific auction site would already be flourishing. We have one forum member trying it now. gunbroker.com is thriving in an area that ebay chose not to allow and coinbroker would thrive too. and if you're specialized your CS reps would soon know coins.
I've been told by eBay that coin business is purposely scattered over all the different T and S reps, CS reps, and account managers since they don't want to develop specialists.
--Jerry
<< <i>The coins category amounts to approximately 1% of total eBay listings.
Russ, NCNE >>
In terms of number of listings or revenue? If it were 1% of revenue, I wonder what it would really cost eBay to get rid of it. Offsetting the revenue loss, they wouldn't have to have people policing the auctions and reacting to all the reports of fraudulent auctions they get. The thing is, there are probably other auction categories that are just as problematic that have fewer listings and for cheaper stuff. I checked "skin care products," and it has about 60% of the listings of US coins. Wanna bet there's no counterfeit Chinese crap for sale there or that everything for sale is actually a good, accurately represented product that won't dissolve your face or turn you into beef jerky?
I would bet that a "coins only" alternative to eBay that had competent people policing auctions would do quite well after a brief period of growing pains.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Senior Numismatist
Legend Rare Coin Auctions
Senior Numismatist
Legend Rare Coin Auctions
I don't sell a ton (collector/flipper, not dealer), and when I go to buy, I don't go for the rips and I try to check out feedback, etc.
New policy makes it easier to spot what I am after and helps keep some crap sellers from cluttering my searches. Yes, they still need to tweak it, but it doesn't really bother me.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>If it were up to me, the only grading service that would be allowed to list grades on eBay would be PCGS. >>
Good one.
Russ, NCNE
I would be curious to know what eBay's overall % revenue is generated by that 1%. Is it 3%? 5%? 10%? If it would be as high as 10 or even just 5%, I would say that warrants some very serious attention at that dollar value for a company of that magnitude.
I have never had any problems because I've always bought from reputable dealers with excellent feedback. That being said there should AT LEAST be an exempt list for sellers that have proven themselves to be reputable and reliable. The new regulations are punishing honest eBay coin dealers. Ultimately I believe the new policy will not be good for most people with half a brain when it comes to buying on ebay.
<< <i>It would be good if they got someone that knew something about numismatics to work there. >>
Agree
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>Since ebay sells everything their goal is not to develop specialists. Otherwise they'd need specialists in everything from lawnmowers to crystal balls. --Jerry >>
I'm glad that Microsoft specializes - their software does everything, and luckily the database people don't write games - can you imagine how boring they would be? And the game guys writing spreadsheets? Heck, I'd have to shoot something just to see my grand total or whatever.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>Russ, 1% is considerable. But for all the headaches this category is seemingly creating for EBAY >>
I don't believe it is any more a problem than other categories, there are a lot of fakes out there from Rolex Watches, Fake Diamonds, Gucci handbags, Pirated CD's DVD's just to name a few. In many categories the shipping is outrageous for small articles, I have to believe the Coin Category has some of the lowest shipping cost due to the competition. As far as non delivery issues I have never been ripped off in the Coin Category, but I will never buy another Camera from Ebay, too much gray market junk, that is if you even get it.
The Coin Category has it's problems and Ebay is working on it. I don't have a problem with the new rules, I think they could go a step farther and require Third world slabbers not post a gallery picture where a grade can been seen on their junk slabs. I have noticed since the new rules went into effect the new label designs that are being used so they can be seen and bypass the title restrictions.
I would like to see the Escrow system they use to have come back into play a little more, it would be a great way to avoid being ripped on the big-ticket items.
Tex
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
<< <i>If it were up to me, the only grading service that would be allowed to list grades on eBay would be PCGS. The others are second rate at best on their best day so why bother. Maybe I'm biased.
Are you an alt for HRH?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
eliminate direct payment and the whole problem goes away .
The system is used on one of my other hobbies auctions (RC airplanes) it works very well .
Always Looking for Raw Proof Lincoln Cents !!
Sellers should practice better ethics, but most do not unless compelled to. That is why, for example, the doctrine of product liability was created.
Conversely, buyers should proceed with caution and take responsibility for their purchases. The words "caveat emptor" appeared in English common law as early as 1523 but would have been just as appropriate in any ancient marketplace.
No aspect of human nature has changed throughout the span of recorded history. You can read all you want about corrupt politicians, wars over religion or natural resources, and unethical commercial practices in ancient Rome, in Biblical times, and so on. The marketplace dynamic between buyers and sellers remains as it ever was. The best marketplaces have historically been willing and able to impose some regulations on their participants. Think of the New York Stock Exchange or the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, for example. Those are phenomenal marketplaces that do enforce constraints on their participants. Ebay is still a work in progress, but I applaud the recent restrictions.
Best,
Sunnywood
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
<< <i>The whole problem of scammers for all catagories could be eliminated by an escrow service where the funds are held by a third party until the Item is received and accepted .
eliminate direct payment and the whole problem goes away .
The system is used on one of my other hobbies auctions (RC airplanes) it works very well . >>
I disagree. Seller transparency would solve most of the fraudulent sales problems. Then there would be just the ignorant sellers to deal with. eBay facilitates hiding by the bad guys.
<< <i>
<< <i>The whole problem of scammers for all catagories could be eliminated by an escrow service where the funds are held by a third party until the Item is received and accepted .
eliminate direct payment and the whole problem goes away .
The system is used on one of my other hobbies auctions (RC airplanes) it works very well . >>
I disagree. Seller transparency would solve most of the fraudulent sales problems. Then there would be just the ignorant sellers to deal with. eBay facilitates hiding by the bad guys. >>
Disagree if you want ,,but if these scammer sellers could not run with the money they could not run with the scams .
Until ebay treats the buyers the same as the sellers and equally divides the risk or eliminates the risk altogether they will be used by the scam artists as a venue to ply their trade . and buyers will continue to be ripped off .
an escrow service is the simplist most efficient method of achieving that . Just make it so the sellers cannot get the money until the Item they send is approved by the buyer .
Always Looking for Raw Proof Lincoln Cents !!
Depends on what you're buying. I still buy frequently on ebay, and have a very strong success rate....
<< <i>Conversely, buyers should proceed with caution and take responsibility for their purchases. >>
If buyers really did do this, it wouldn't matter what sellers did- sellers could list whatever crap they wanted all day long, but nobody can make an informed buyer bid on it.
But I suppose it's easier to just make more rules than it is to insist that people take responsibility for their actions and not buy stuff if they don't understand what it is they're buying or the terms they're agreeing to when they bid.
Crappy pictures? Don't bid. Lousy seller feedback? Don't bid. Unfavorable terms of sale? Don't bid. Excessive shipping? Don't bid. No return policy? Don't bid. It's not that hard.
<< <i>I don't know why everyone whines incessantly about Ebay. >>
Most of the whining is coming from sellers who either can't figure out the simple rules or refuse to abide by them. There are some good sellers caught in the net woven of eBay drone stupidity - Jerry, for example. He has a legitimate gripe, but most are just crybabies who can't hype junk as effectively as they could in the past.
Russ, NCNE