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1794 Dollar Question

Does anybody happen to have the Martin Logies book on 1794 dollars handy. If so, could you please check to see if either S.E. Coe of Mohawk, NY or Elliot Woodward of Roxbury, Mass are listed anywhere as owners of an example. The cover below is circa 1865. Thank you.

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Richard Frajola
www.rfrajola.com

Comments

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    W.E. Woodward was a major dealer and auctioneer, so he no doubt handled a few. It would be cool to see Coe's name in a listed provenance. Unfortunately, I'm on the road and don't have the book handy.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BTW, I hope you at least looked inside the envelope to see if there was a coin there...
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Jack Lee AU55 ex John McCoy example was aquired by W. Elliott Woodward in 1864.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • If that is the case, it would appear that he purchased it from Mr. Coe. I would suggest the owner of the coin contact the new owner of the cover - Andy Lustig!
    Richard Frajola
    www.rfrajola.com
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would suggest the owner of the coin contact the new owner of the cover - Andy Lustig!

    Great. Just great. Now they're going to charge me an extra 10% for the coin. image

    Seriously, I'd be happy to pass the cover along to the owner of the coin, at cost.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The sale of the John McCoy collection was handled by W. Elliott Woodward in 1864.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The sale of the John McCoy collection was handled by W. Elliott Woodward in 1864.

    Of course the sale could have contained coins from other consignors.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A BIOGRAPHY OF W. ELLIOT WOODWARD

    On April 30, 1825, Captain Caleb Woodward, age 35, tanner, shoemaker, and veteran of the War of 1812, married his second wife, Hannah Cary, age 29. Six months later, on Oct. 29, she bore him a son, William Elliot Woodward.

    The family lived in Oxford, a town in Oxford County, Maine, on the south side of King Street near the covered bridge that crossed the Androscoggin River. W. Elliot had a stepbrother six years his senior, Henry Augustus, and a sister nine years older, Eliza Ann. On the west side of the river, their father operated a sawmill, where they and the other children of Oxford often played.

    The father Caleb was born in Washington, N.H., and had spent about four years in Brookline and Dedham, Massachusetts before coming to Oxford in 1820 with his first wife and three children, one of whom died in 1822. In early 1826, his brother, Elliot, also came from Washington, traveled about 150 miles, and settled about six miles north of Caleb, in the town of Hebron, with his wife Rebecca, and daughters Olive, age 2, and Nancy, age 1. Olive died on August 21, 1826, soon after arriving in Hebron. On August 23, Elliot and Rebecca had a son, whom they also named William Elliot Woodward. Nothing more is known at this time about this second William Elliot Woodward. All further references to "W. Elliot" refer to the son of Caleb and Hannah.

    On August 20, 1829, when W. Elliot was nearly four, his brother Caleb Leighton Woodward was born.

    Four days later, Uncle Elliot's daughter Nancy, nearly five years old, died in Hebron.

    On Feb. 3, 1831, five-year-old W. Elliot gained a sister, Mary Eleanor Woodward. She was buried just one year later, on Feb. 10, 1832.

    His youngest brother, Caleb Leighton, died one year later, on Feb. 24, 1832, age two. W. Elliot was six at the time.

    On August 20 or 22, 1833, when W. Elliot was nearly eight, his brother Charles Lowell Woodward was born. He was apparently named after his aunt Sarah's husband, Charles Lowell. Charles would later marry Mary Clark, and move to New York City where, in 1903, he owned the Antiquarian Bookstore at 78 Nassau St. His collection of rare American books was said to be second to none in the country. Surely, he and W. Elliot must have been very close. I need more information on Charles' life

    In Feb. 1834, W. Elliot's grandmother Martha (Brock) Cary died in Buckfield, about twelve miles to the north, and his grandfather Ebenezer Cary quickly married Mrs. Hannah Davis in Minot, Maine "after a tedious courtship of one hour" according to The Democrat, a Paris Maine newspaper.

    Grandfather Ebenezer Cary died in 1837 or '38, aged about 72.

    In 1846, when W. Elliot was 21, his father Caleb, then 56, sold his sawmill to the Hayesville Cotton Manufacturing Co. W. Elliot, as a young man, started out as a lecturer on mnemonics and met with remarkable success.

    Caleb had probably spoken fondly of his years in Brookline and Dedham, for W. Elliot's brother Henry had moved close to these towns, in Roxbury, Mass. Roxbury was the hometown of his Woodward ancestors from about 1717 until 1762. He had lived with Colonel King, and was considered a member of the family. He worked as a foreman at the Dennison Card Co. factory. Who was this Col. King? Was he, and was Dennison Card Co., in Roxbury, or back in Maine? On Feb. 22, 1846, he married Mary N. Ford, and a year or two later, had a daughter, Mary E. Woodward.

    In 1848, W. Elliot followed his half-brother's lead, leaving home and parents in Oxford, and travelling about 140 miles to Roxbury, first staying briefly in Waltham, Mass. He opened an apothecary shop at 258-260 Dudley St., at the corner of Dearborn. This was at the northern edge of a community known as Mount Pleasant, and his place was called the Mount Pleasant Apothecary Shop.

    Roxbury was a fast-growing town of over 18,000 in 1850, and about 22,000 in 1853. It was described in 1854 as a beautiful city of Norfolk county, Massachusetts, 3 miles S. from Boston, with which it was connected by "Boston Neck." Leading over this neck were three broad avenues, which were traversed by numerous lines of stages plying between the two cities. Much of the site had originally been rocky and very irregular, but by 1854 it had been greatly improved. Portions of it are quite elevated, and afforded fine views of Boston and the surrounding scenery. It would perhaps be difficult to find concentrated in any city of equal extent such a diversity of surface, or so many elements of the picturesque. The private edifices, all of which were neat, and some very elegant, were, for the most part, enclosed by spacious grounds adorned with flower gardens and a profusion of shrubbery; indeed, few places had been more improved by the horticulturist. For several years past the city had been very flourishing, owing in part to its having become a favorite place of residence to persons doing business in Boston. Its wealth and interests were closely connected with that city, and it might with propriety, perhaps, be regarded as a suburb of the metropolis. It had, however, considerable trade of its own, and is also extensively engaged in manufacturing. The most important articles produced were steam engines, steam boilers, fire engines, iron castings, chemical preparations, carpeting, various kinds of fringe, tassels, cordage, leather, &c. It had 2 banks, with a circulation of $160,000, and 20,000 of specie; a savings' institution, and 2 insurance companies. Three newspapers were published there. A beautiful burial place, called the Forest Hills Cemetery, had recently been laid out on the Dedham turnpike, a short distance back of the city. It comprises an area of about 70 acres, diversified with nearly every variety of surface, and variously adorned with winding pathways, plants, shrubbery, &c. The entrance to the grounds is by a fine Egyptian gateway. Roxbury was chartered as a city in 1846, the same year that W. Elliot's brother, Henry, moved there.

    W. Elliot's near neighbor to the south was the Hon. John S. Sleeper, who lived there since 1843. A seafaring man in his youth, he became the editor and publisher of the "Boston Journal."

    To W. Elliot's north was a large brick house that had been built by Dr. Thomas Williams. This was the first brick mansion in the town.

    The same year that he moved to Roxbury, he married Clarissa Eliza Roys in Norfolk, Conn. Why was he in Norfolk CT? How did he meet Clarissa? Both of their fathers were in the tanning business. Rev. Joseph Eldredge performed the ceremony.

    On April 12, 1851, W. Elliot and Clarissa had a son, Harlow Elliot Woodward. He was born "at the old stand of his father." He was named after Clarissa's brother, Harlow Roys.

    In 1851 or '52, brother Henry had his first child, George H.[enry?]

    In September 1856, W. Elliot and Clarissa had their second child, Clarence Elliot Woodward.

    On February 3, 1858, W. Elliot Woodward became a member of the New England Historic Genealogical Society. With apparently no higher education, and being from humble roots, what inspired both W. Elliot and his brother Charles Lowell to pursue such scholarly vocations or avocations? Did he immediately blend in with the Brahmin members of the NEHGS?

    About 1859, W. Elliot and Clarissa had a daughter, Claribel.

    In 1860, brother Henry owned $3000 worth of real estate, and had $800 personal estate.

    On July 22, 1861, W. Elliot's daughter Claribel was buried on Arathusa Path in Forest Hills Cemetery.

    In the fall of 1862, W. Elliot Woodward had his first of what would become semi-annual auctions of coins. This statement seems likely, as the auction of Oct. 1864 was billed as the "Fifth semi-annual"

    In the summer of 1863, twenty-seven Oak and Pine Tree coins were unearthed in Roxbury. These came into the possession of J.N.T. Levick, and would appear at W. Elliot's auction the following year.

    W. Elliott Woodward had purchased several fine collections of coins and medals including the celebrated Greek, Roman, and English collection of Jeremiah Colburn, esq. A 160 page auction catalog was printed by L.B. & O.E. Weston, of Roxbury. From Tuesday through Saturday, Oct. 20 through 24, 1863, these collections were sold at auction by Messrs. Bangs, Merwin & Co., Irving Buildings, 594 & 596 Broadway, New York, commencing each day precisely at five o'clock.

    In 1864, Records of Salem witchcraft, copied from the original documents, in two volumes, was privately printed for W. E. Woodward. It contained the following dedication:

    TO HER,

    ONE OF THE

    "WITCHES OF NEW-ENGLAND,"

    WHO BEWITCHED ME IN MY YOUTH,

    AND WHO HAS SINCE BEEN

    MY HEART'S SUNLIGHT,

    AND THE ANGEL OF MY HOME;

    TO OUR BOYS, HARLOW AND CLARENCE,

    AND THE LITTLE CLARIBEL,

    WHO HAVING GONE BEFORE WE MAY NOT SEE, BUT WHO,

    WE HOPE, STILL LOOKS UPON US WITH LOVING EYES,

    BY THE HUSBAND AND FATHER,

    WHOSE NAME MAY NEVER APPEAR UPON ANOTHER

    TITTLE PAGE,

    THESE VOLUMES ARE

    AFFECTIONATELY INSCRIBED.

    On the list of subscribers are several names that are prominent in W. Elliot Woodward's life. There were fifteen large paper copies, and 200 small print copies. One large and eleven small print copies went to W. Elliot himself. One large and one small print copy went to his wife's brother, Harlow Roys, of New York City. Harlow Roys, who had kept a country store in Norfolk, CT, later resided in Brooklyn, NY. Might he have collaborated with W. Elliot's brother, Charles Lowell Woodward, and might it have been through him that W. Elliot met Clarissa? One large print and 25 small print copies went to William H. Piper, of Boston. He and his family share the same cemetery lot with W.E.'s family. Who was he?

    Also in 1864, W. Elliot issued a "Catalogue of a choice collection of American and English books," 72 pages published in Boston by J. E. Farwell & co.

    In the spring of that same year, W. Elliot purchased the coin collection of John R. McCoy, of Pittsburgh. This collection included the famous 1787 Brasher Doubloon. J. E. Cooley, Auctioneers issued a "Catalogue of the Entire Collection of American Coins, Medals, &c. made by John F. McCoy...and now owned by W. Elliot Woodward...together with a few Fine Foreign Coins and Medals, and the whole of Mr. Woodward's Private Collection of Coin Catalogues, American and English, and Other Papers and Pamphlets Relating to American Coins and Coinage. Bound with a few other coin auction catalogues of the same year." In October, he sold the doubloon to Colin Lightbody for $400. This amount far exceeded the average person's annual income at the time.

    From Oct. 18 to 22, 1864, Tuesday through Saturday, another auction was held at 498 Broadway, New York. The auctioneer was George A. Leavitt. The 155-page catalog was entitled " Priced catalogue of American coins, medals, &c., from the cabinets of Messrs. J.N.T. Levick, J. Osborn Emery, F.I. Ilsley, and L.H. Abbey, all of which have recently been purchased by the present owner, W. Elliot Woodward, of Roxbury, Mass.: also, a fine selection of foreign coins and medals, both ancient and modern, sold at auction by J.E. Cooley." This sale was billed as "The Fifth semi-annual sale of W. Elliot Woodward's collection of American and foreign coins and medals. In his forward to the sale, W. Elliot Woodward wrote, "In the use of terms, some latitude must be allowed on account of the lack of words to express the shades of meaning, and the same expression may sometimes be differently construed according to circumstances; for instance, a piece coined a hundred years ago may be a brilliant proof, and still not up to the standard of a brilliant proof of 1864an unimportant token may, if extra fine, be called proof, where a valuable coin in the same condition would only admit of the descriptive word uncirculated perhaps, or very fine."

    The following year, Lightbody asked Woodward to sell the Brasher Doubloon for him, and it was included in Woodward's March 20, 1865 sale. George F. Seavey paid $400 for it, the same amount that Lightbody paid for it the previous year.

    In 1865, W. Elliot had printed two volumes by Franklin Benjamin Hough (1822-1885). One was "Washingtoniana or, Memorials of the death of George Washington, giving an account of the funeral honors paid to his memory, with a list of tracts and volumes printed upon the occasion, and a catalogue of medals commemorating the event." The other was "Bibliographical list of books and pamphlets, containing eulogies, orations, poems or other papers, relating to the death of General Washington, or to the honors paid to his memory."

    Also in 1865, he had published works edited by Samuel Gardner Drake (1798-1875). One was "Annals of Witchcraft in New England and Elsewhere in the United States, From Their First Settlement." Another was "The History of the Indian Wars in New England from the First Settlement to the Termination of the War with King Philip, in 1677."From the Original Work, by the Rev. William Hubbard, Carefully revisited, and accompanied with an historical preface, life and pedigree of the author, and extensive notes."

    The following year, W. Elliot published another work compiled by Samuel Drake, "The witchcraft delusion in New England; its rise, progress, and termination, as exhibited by Dr. Cotton Mather in The wonders of the invisible world, and by Mr. Robert Calef in his More wonders of the invisible world." He also published this year, "Memoir upon the Late War in North America, Between the French and English, 1755-60" by Pierre Pouchot."

    At an auction of Feb. 27 to March 1, 1866, he offered a "Catalogue of American coins, medals, &c., being the collection of Robert B. Chambers, Esq., of Providence, R.I., together with a few foreign coins, &c., to be sold at auction, in New York City." George A. Leavitt was the auctioneer. The Press of J.M. Bradstreet & Son printed the 71-page catalog.

    Another auction catalog was dated April 24, 1866.

    W. Elliot paid Joseph Mickley $10,000 for what remained of his collection after thieves broke in and stole approximately $16,000 worth of coins in early 1867. John Adams proclaimed this "perhaps the greatest U.S. collection", and judged it "best all around". It was offered in W. Elliot's "tenth catalog" of October 28, 1867, "Priced Catalogue of the Numismatic Collection Formed by Joseph Mickley, Esq. of Philadelphia Sold for the Account of W. Elliot Woodward of Roxbury, Mass. Leavitt, Strebeigh & Co., Oct. 1867." W. Elliot wrote, "...not one piece of any description has been added...wishing to offer a catalogue of the Mickley collection only, I have refrained from any changes." The last pages list catalogues which also were auctioned & some miscellaneous bits of furniture. In all, 3349 articles are listed in a 196-page catalog, all priced excepts a few artifacts.

    January 6th, 1868, Roxbury became part of Boston. W. Elliot Woodward was for two years a member of the Common Council.

    The year 1869 saw the publication by L. B. Weston of W. Elliot's 668-page "Bibliotheca Americana. Catalogue of the library of W. Elliot Woodward of Boston Highlands, Mass. In the preface, he writes, "Had I lived in New York, where I could have submitted the manuscript to competent bibliographers, I should without a doubt have been spared the mortification of falling into numerous errors; but residing in a rural district, this advantage was denied me." This statement seems peculiar, as Roxbury was the fourth largest city in Massachusetts, and just three miles from the "center of the universe," Boston.

    Also this year, his 18-year-old son Harlow had his first published work, the 21-page "Epitaphs from the old burying ground in Dorchester, Massachusetts."

    In 1870, W. Elliot published Henry Phillips' (1838-1895) "Historical sketches of the paper currency of the American colonies prior to the adoption of the Federal Constitution ; first series." The "second series" was published in 1909.

    The census of June 6, 1870 listed W. Elliot living as owning $300,000 worth of real estate, and a $30,000 personal estate. Clarissa E., his wife was a housekeeper, Harlow E., 19 at the time, was living at home, and Clarence E., 13, was attending school. Also living with them was Fairfield Gilbert, a 30-year-old apothecary clerk from Maine. He owned $1200 real & $500 personal estate, Clarissa's sister, Lucy Maria Roys, married a James Gilbert, but this was a Connecticut family. and Agnes Miller, 19, a domestic servant from Nova Scotia.

    For several months in 1871, Harlow published The Old Curiosity Shop, a Monthly Magazine of Entertaining and Instructive Reading. Indeed, with W. Elliot's collections of books, coins, and sundry artifacts, the shop at 258 Dudley, where the magazine was published, must have been quite an Old Curiosity Shop. W. Elliot had an add in the back-matter which read:

    W. ELLIOT WOODWARD,

    REAL ESTATE DEALER,

    258 DUDLEY ST, BOSTON HIGHLANDS.

    1,000,000 feet of building land for sale, and 50 houses to let. Buys, Sells and Exchanges for his own account only.

    TO BROKERS. --- On sales, one per cent, and on leases two per cent, for approval, tenants will be promptly paid.

    Harlow's obituary stated that this magazine, published successfully, was later acquired from him by Mr. Curtis, and became the basis of the present Ladies' Home Journal.

    November 9th, 1872 was the Great Fire in Boston. W. Elliot Woodward would serve on the committee that had charge of the street changes in the burnt district.

    On June 2, 1873, Harlow Elliot Woodward, 22, editor, was married to Susan E. Howard, 21, in Boston, by the Rev. A. J. Patterson. The following month, their son Clarence Elliot Woodward was born. This scandalous date is based on the 1900 census listing showing month and year. It is further backed up by his age in the 1880 census. However, his age in the 1910 census indicates he may have been born in 1875. The family lived for a few months with Harlow's parents at the apothecary shop, but in 1874, they moved a short distance away to 50 Clarence St., one block from Woodward Avenue. Given these two names, I would guess that they were quickly developed from W. Elliot's vast real estate holdings, but I have no other evidence. Harlow pursued a career in medicines, and was "regarded as one of the leaders in popularizing the druggist business in Boston by original and modern methods." Following in his father's footsteps, he was also a publisher, and an authority on coins and stamps. His obituary stated he was a man of much literary knowledge and taste, of original ideas and faculty for expressing them.

    W. Elliot's real estate holdings about this time included the old brick mansion of Dr. Thomas Williams, just north of his home, as well as the mansion of Governor Eustis, a short distance from Harlow's new home, and that of Colonel Swan.

    In February, 1876, W. Elliot's brother, Charles Lowell Woodward, compiled and published in New York the 41-page "Inventory of a few old books and pamphlets ... [historical, biographical and genealogical, relating mainly to America] A collection of C.L.W.'s catalogues."

    In April, 1876, W. Elliot issued a 184-page, partly priced "Catalogue of a library of ... books and pamphlets especially Americana ... sold at auction ... April ... 1876, by Bangs, Merwin & Co."

    On the third of this month, his membership in New England Historic Genealogical Society ended.

    In August, 1876, Harlow and Susan had a daughter, Florence C. Woodward.

    On April 3, 1878, W. Elliot's brother Henry, who came to Roxbury two years before him, died. His widow Mary went to live with her daughter, Mrs. W. H. L. Bartlett, in Newburyport.

    Two very similar auction catalogs were issued by W. Elliot in 1879, a 104-page "Catalogue of coins, medals and tokens, mostly American.," and an 88-page "Catalogue of coins, medals and tokens, American and foreign, in gold, silver and copper." Boston's T.R. MARVIN & son printed both.

    Harlow and his brother Clarence were partners in "Woodward Bros.," a perfume business at 468 Washington St. Harlow's wife, Susan, assisted. Family members have said that Harlow's partner at one time made off with all the company funds. I have no idea if this is true, or if it was Clarence of whom they spoke.

    W. Elliot's brother Charles Lowell Woodward, issued in 1879 John Wingate Thornton's (1818-1878) 15-page "Index of persons and places mentioned in Hutchinson's Massachusetts Hutchinson, Thomas, -- 1711-1780. -- History of Massachusetts.

    On January 19, 1880, one of Charles' collections was offered at auction. The 50-page catalog was entitled, "Bibliothica [sic] scallawagiana : catalogue of a matchless collection of books, pamphlets, autographs, pictures, &c. relating to Mormonism and the Mormons : the 10 years' gatherings of Charles L. Woodward ... to be sold at vendue, Monday, January 19, 1880 ... by Messrs. Bangs & Co. ..."

    A hoard of 100 or so uncirculated Flowing Hair half dimes dated 1794 was discovered around 1880 by W. Elliot Woodward.

    W. Elliot's 31st sale was held Sept. 1, 2, and 3, 1880. The 1694 items are described in the 66 page "Catalogue of coins, medals and tokens, fractional currency, books, coin sale catalogues, etc. Being the entire American collection of Wm. J. Jenks ... To be sold by auction, by Messrs. Bangs & co."

    In December 1880, Harlow and Susan had their third child, Howard Harlow Woodward.

    In 1881, W. Elliot issued a 59 page "Catalogue of Mr. William Clagston's collection of reminders of the war of 1861-65." And also a 24 page "Catalogue of the archaeological cabinet of O[riel] A[ustin] Jenison [(1823-1895)], of Lansing, Michigan : comprising stone implements and objects in great variety ... the whole forming without doubt the best existing collection illustrating the stone age in Michigan ... also a small collection of fine coins ; the whole to be sold by auction ... Bangs & Co." Of the latter sale, W. Elliot wrote that "On the eve that sale, one Talbot, who does business at Sioux City, Iowa, telegraphed me to buy from the Jenison Collection one hundred and fifty dollars' worth of the finest objects in the sale. I executed his order to the best of my ability, but found the amount of the purchase to be about $215.00. The goods were at once sent to the purchaser, with the request that he would select $150 worth and return the remainder. They were forwarded in June. July 9th, Mr. Talbot wrote, promising to pay for them on their arrival. On learning from the auctioneers that they had not been paid for at the end of July, I wrote to Mr. Talbot and continued to write to him at short intervals, but received no response from him till October 9th. At the date named he wrote, requiring a statement as to the finding place of each object. As stated in the catalogue, all were from Michigan, and of most of them, found many years ago [and] no particulars were recorded. This fact I explained, and Mr. Talbot then decided to return the goods, which he did on the 21st of November.

    "Some time in December, long after I had paid the owner for them, they reached me, placed in the box in the most careless manner, with no adequate protection from injury, and with a bill for transportation added to their cost. After I had written on the subject some five or more letters, Mr. Talbot wrote me, 'I have repeatedly written you,' etc. Mr. Talbot keeps a clerk, and divides his business into departments which he letters from A to X, reminding one of the water-tight compartments of a Cunard Steamer; the compartments in the Cunarder it is understood are intended to prevent the craft from sinking when it is partially waterlogged. Mr. T. requests his correspondents to address their letters, according to the nature of their business, to the different letters. As no one of the departments is mentioned as specially devoted to the payment of bills, my letters probably failed to receive attention for want of a special department."

    On December 15, 1881, W. Elliot's son, Clarence Elliot Woodward and Marietta C. Ames were married.

    W. Elliot had another auction on Tuesday and Wednesday, June 27th and 28th, 1882. The 59-page catalog was "Pre-historic man; Catalogue of the collection of the late Prof. J[ames] Grier Ralston [(1816?-1880)], illustrating the stone age in America and Europe, to be sold by auction, by Messieurs Bangs and Co, 739 & 741 Broadway, New York City." In this catalog, W. Elliot recounts the above story of Mr. Talbot in explaining why Jenison sale items reappear in this catalog, and states that he can best illustrate his feelings by telling a story:

    "Once upon a time, a colored preacher held forth to a large congregation, and at the end of the services the hat was passed around for a contribution. It came back empty; the preacher turned it bottom upwards over the desk, to show that it contained nothing, and raising his eyes heavenward, reverently exclaimed, 'I bress de Lord dat I got my hat back from dis congregation.'

    "This story reminds me of another. A stranger called at a wayside store and ordered three cents' worth of crackers and herrings. They were placed before him; he said, 'I have changed my mind; I wish you would take them back and give me three cents' worth of rum instead.' The rum disappeared at a gulp; the stranger about to depart, was asked to pay for the rum; he replied, 'I have paid for it, I gave you the crackers and herrings.' 'But,' said the merchant, 'you did not pay for them.' 'True,' said the stranger, 'but I gave them back, you would not have me pay for them and give them back too, would you?' whereupon he went his way; the trader scratched his head, and after a moment's thought remarked to a by-stander, 'It may be all right, but I'll be --blanked-- if I want any more such custom.' These stories have no moral, but their application to my case is obvious."

    W. Elliot's son Clarence and his wife Marietta had a daughter in 1883, Ethel Ames Woodward,

    On January 21st, 1884, Harlow and Susan had another son, Roys Elliot Woodward at their new home at 29 Bainbridge St., in Charlestown. Harlow and Clarence's firm of Woodward Bros., shown as dealing in "fancy goods," relocated to 40 Bromfield, in the heart of Boston.

    On March 25th, 1884, 1-year-old Ethel Ames Woodward was buried in the family plot at Forest Hills Cemetery.

    An auction of W. Elliot's collection of coins and medals began October 13, 1884, and continued for five following days. A 251-page catalog was printed proclaiming "All the kingdoms of the world" at the head of the title.

    In February 1885, Clarence and Marietta had a son, Ernest A. Woodward.

    Another auction was held February 26th and 27th, 1885, with a 55-page catalog entitled "The old way. Catalogue of prehistoric objects, mostly American, and principally in stone, comprising a large collection and several important consignments. To be sold by auction by Messieurs, Bangs & Co."

    This same year, W. Elliot issued a catalog of a collection of William Braddock Clark (1841-1927), "Here, there, and everywhere. Earliest American pattern coin."

    On May 1st and 2nd came an auction with the 62-page catalog "The Viking and the red man : catalogue of a collection of prehistoric stone objects, and the pottery of the mound builders ; also a variety of other curious objects : to be sold by auction by Messrs. Bangs & Co"

    Three days after this auction, on May 5th, 1885, W. Elliot's wife Clarissa was buried in the family plot. She was 56. Apparently, sometime within the next year, W. Elliot married Alice B., who was also buried in the family plot on July 4th, 1886. The existence and identity of this woman is in question. The only evidence of her relationship is the cemetery record..

    W. Elliot's 83rd sale in 1886 had the 67-page "Catalogue of J. S. Twining's collection of gold, silver and copper American coins, with a little collection of bric-a-brac, Washington pitchers and Japanese curios."

    In December 1886, Harlow and Susan had a son, Arthur Chester Woodward, and Clarence and Marietta had a daughter, Mary A. Woodward.

    In 1888, W. Elliot issued a "Catalogue of a collection of coins and medals selected from a large cabinet collected at Vicksburg, Miss. ... especially rich in the great crowns and their multiples, of Germany and Europe, and almost equally rich in the American series of Colonial and Washington coins, and the regular issues of the U.S. Mint." The 153-page catalog was published by T.R. Marvin., and was W. Elliot's 95th sale.

    Meanwhile, this same year, his brother, Charles Lowell, issued a "Catalogue of a large and interesting collection of books, pamphlets, etc., relating to persons, families and names..."

    On Christmas Day, 1888, Harlow and Susan had their fifth child, Edith Victoria Woodward.

    From December 27th through 29th, 1888, W. Elliot had his 103rd sale, 1708 lots in an 84 page catalog, "The Norman Spang Collection: ARCHAEOLOGY or The Stone Age in America and Europe: Amulets, Banner Stones, Pipes, Axes, Spear and Arrow Points"

    More of Norman Spang's collection was auctioned on January 17th, 1890. W. Elliot issued the 30-page "Catalogue of specimens in archaeology including amulets, banner stones, discoidal stones, pipes, axes, celts, spear heads, arrow points, etc., etc., being the remainder of the collection of Mr. Norman Spang ... : this collection will be sold by auction by Messrs. Bangs & Co."

    On January 3rd, 1892, W. Elliot contracted pneumonia. It plagued him for two days until culminating in cerebral paralysis. He died in the afternoon of January 5th, at his residence at 38 Harlow St, one block away from Woodward Park Street. His obituary stated that he was the best known coin dealer in the country and his series of coin catalogues is to be found in every large public library.

    He was buried in the family plot at Lot 1543 Arathusa Path, Forest Hills Cemetery. In the same location was buried the mysterious Alice B. Woodward. Next to him would be buried daughter-in-law Marietta C. Woodward (Nov.19, 1909), along with granddaughter Ethel Ames Woodward. Next to them would be buried his son Clarence E. Woodward (May 24, 1918), along with granddaughter Mary A. Woodward (Feb. 18, 1963).

    In a second row, closest to W. Elliot is the grave of his wife Clarissa E. Woodward. Next to her is daughter Claribel. Next in line is son Harlow E. Woodward (Jan. 15, 1911), and lastly Susan E. Woodward (July 26, 1909).

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    imageimage

    1794 $1 AU55 NGC. B-1, BB-1, R-4. The McCoy Collection Specimen, Martin Logies Condition Census #10. A beautiful example of our first silver dollar coined at the Philadelphia Mint. The coin is toned a deep gunmetal gray and blue, with traces of luster in the protected areas. The strike is exceptional for a 1794 silver dollar, as the date, stars and even the dentils are clearly defined on the left side, an area which is notoriously weak on this issue. As nearly always found there are some adjustment marks, but they are much lighter than usual and located along the reverse rim, and these will serve to hallmark this particular coin. Examination of the surfaces will find little to fault this piece, as the rims, fields and devices have come down to us in excellent shape. Historically we note that W. Elliot Woodward catalogued this same coin in 1864 and stated in the McCoy sale "This specimen is unfortunately blemished by having the name 'Andrew Spence' prikked into the field of the coin, and some figures on the head, produced by the same process." These marks have since been removed very skillfully and no discernible evidence remains save for a few minor imperfections behind Liberty's head. Employing a 10X loupe fails to locate any evidence of this past transgression, or its undoing, and thus this particular coin has left behind the past and moved into the modern realm of third party grading, as well it should. Certainly one of the nicest 1794 silver dollars to survive, and a coin which any collector will long appreciate. Note the depth of Liberty's hair and her unblemished cheek and neck. The reverse is a delight with the strong wing details on the eagle, only the breast shows any wear on the high points. Well defined on the wreath and berries too, with just a hint of weakness at the tops of STA which was likely caused by the adjustment marks and the strike.
    Of the 1,758 coined, extensive research conducted by Jack Collins (1993) and later updated and published by Martin Logies has found that approximately 135 specimens of 1794 silver dollars exist today. Of these, the vast majority are in much lower grades, and many have been plugged, repaired or otherwise enhanced. Demand has always been quite strong for this issue, it is the first silver dollar struck by the Philadelphia Mint, and as a silver dollar it is the basic unit of coinage. A small number were coined and most entered circulation. Unlike many other popular rarities, these were not made for collectors but were coined simply to serve in the channels of commerce. George Washington was President when these were struck. To survive, a 1794 silver dollar would have to have been randomly set aside or lost and later recovered after these were no longer in circulation. The mere fact that every known specimen has been tracked is a testament to the great rarity and importance of this issue. Coin collectors of all sorts need or desire an example, some want one simply because these were the first silver dollars coined, others need one to represent the first year of issue for their type collections, many are needed by Bust dollar collectors to represent the date and die pairing. Constant pressure keeps demand for this date very high, and new price records seem to be achieved with the sale of each specimen. This particular coin is truly a delight to behold, and while not quite mint state, it is fairly close to that grade level and any collector would be honored to own this classic American icon.
    In a letter to this cataloger, Numismatist and Early Silver Dollar specialist W. David Perkins wrote:
    Enclosed is a partial scan of Bolender's invoice (on his stationery) for the Ostheimer - Baldenhofer - Kern - Col. Green - Woodin - Newcomer - Granberg (etc.) 1794 Dollar. As you know, I acquired the extensive early dollar correspondence of the Ostheimers, including this invoice, directly from Mrs. Ostheimer about a year ago.
    This invoice was accompanied by a letter from Bolender dated December 28, 1959, stating in part, "Enclosed please find the final list of the dollar collection, revised and adjusted as explained in my letter to you under date of Dec. 22nd."
    Unknown to most numismatists, Bolender purchased en bloc the silver dollar collection of W. G. Baldenhofer of Springfield, Ohio in December 1959. This invoice included the majority of the extensive collection of silver dollars formed by Baldenhofer: Early dollars 1794-1803; Gobrecht and Seated Dollars (mostly in Proof); Trade Dollars; Morgan and Peace Dollars. There were 285 silver dollars in total. It is interesting to note that this 1794 Dollar alone will realize multiples of the total price that the Ostheimers paid for the entire Baldenhofer silver dollar collection 45 years ago!
    The pedigree is consistent with the pedigree as noted in the unpublished Jack Collins manuscript on 1794 Dollars. The pedigree as listed by Bolender reads, "1794 B-1 Unc. Formerly in the collections of H. A. (sic) Granberg of Oshkosh, Wisconsin, Waldo Newcomer of Baltimore, Maryland, banker, William H. Woodin, Col. Green, Jerome Kern. One of the 3 or 4 best known, very rare." [Note that at this time the two "Lord St. Oswald" 1794 Dollars were unknown, both called Mint State today.] The Ostheimer's cost from Bolender for this specimen was $6,250.00. Bolender noted in his estimate that "their present approximate fair value" was $8,200.00. The $6,250.00 represents a 25% discount for the coin. The Ostheimer's purchased the entire Baldenhofer silver dollar collection at 25% off Bolender's estimates.
    Lastly, the pedigree in the Collin's manuscript lists Catherine Bullova as a previous owner. Per a conversation I had with her at the Philadelphia ANA Convention a few years ago I don't believe she ever owned this specimen. She had seen this specimen, but to the best of my knowledge did not ever own it.
    John F. McCoy Collection (W. Elliott Woodward, 1864); Joseph Zanoni; James Ten Eyck; Mortimer Livingston MacKenzie (Edward Cogan, 1869), lot 15; Lorin G. Parmelee (New York Coin and Stamp, 1890), lot 681; H. O. Granberg; William H. Woodin; Waldo Newcomer; Col. E. H. R. Green; Jerome Kern; Clint Hester; W. G. Baldenhofer; Alfred J. and Jackie Ostheimer; Cabinet of Lucien M. LaRiviere, Part II (Bowers and Merena, 2001), lot 324.
    From The Jack Lee Collection, III
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • PistareenPistareen Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭
    Richard -- thanks for posting this! You turn up neat stuff.

    The McCoy coin is an awesome coin -- it was the first high grade 1794 dollar I got to play around with after becoming a "pro."

    It also taught me a thing or two about originality. The coin has ideal color, sharp details, and excellent eye appeal -- the sort of coin that is roundly lauded as original when a picture of it is shown.

    This envelope helps underline just how long the history of a coin like this is though, and reiterates the old line Dad uses that "forever is a long time."

    W. Eliot Woodward, the addressee of Andy's cool new cover, noted in 1864 regarding the McCoy coin (which was in an NGC 55 holder last time I saw it):

    "This specimen is unfortunately blemished by having the name of 'Andrew Spence' pri*ked into the field of the coin, and some figures on the head, produced by the same process." (Sorry, word filter caught Mr. Woodward's original verb, which seems highly appropriate.)

    Obviously the graffiti is no longer visible. If a tree falls in a forest, it may not make a sound -- but what if a woodsman from the past tells you they heard the tree fall? This piece was deftly repaired long enough ago that it is "original" again. Yep, forever is a long time.

    Maybe Mr. Coe knew Mr. Spence -- or maybe Mr. Coe was a prehistoric coin doctor!

    The pedigree after McCoy: Joseph Zanoni, the Cincinnati ice cream store owner who issued Civil War tokens and had a massive coin cabinet; Mortimer McKenzie, whose collection was featured in the first photographically illustrated coin auction catalogue EVER; Lorin Parmelee, who owned everything cool at least once and made his fortune baking beans; H.O. Granberg, the Wisconsinite who also owned an 1804 dollar; William Woodin, the former Secretary of the Treasury who probably owned more than half of the patterns currently extant (really); Waldo Newcomer, the incredibly important Baltimore numismatist whose collection would put almost all others to shame; Col. E.H.R. Green, who once lived 8 blocks from where I now sit but whose domicile became a famous Supreme Court case; Jerome Kern, the composer; Clint Hester, of whom I know nothing; W.G. "Farish" Baldenhofer, whose collection was sold in 1955; A.J. Ostheimer, maybe the world's greatest collector of early dollars; and some folks since I saw the coin last in 2001.
  • John K - Great to have a forum like this available.!
    Richard Frajola
    www.rfrajola.com
  • Now all we need to find is an actual picture of one-eyed W. Elliot Woodward (with his curly hair).
    PM me if you are looking for U.S. auction catalogs
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What an interesting life Mr. William Elliot Woodward had Jack of All Trade and Master of All to boot. image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    This is a thread for the ages.
  • seateddimeseateddime Posts: 6,180 ✭✭✭
    very cool !
    I seldom check PM's but do check emails often jason@seated.org

    Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.

    Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image

    Now all we need to find is an actual picture of one-eyed W. Elliot Woodward (with his curly hair).

    Can't help you on that one but here is one of the only photos of Playboy Col E.H.R. Green (Far Left)
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • PistareenPistareen Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭
    Incidentally, Woodward also issued scrip notes (5 cents and 20 cents) in 1863 for use at his apothecary shop. They're only scarce as remainders, very rare with his signature. I might be able to scan the one in my collection.

    His notes were printed by Louis Prang who is best known as the father of the American Valentine Day's card -- cards that are mostly collected by cover and postal collectors like Richard!

    Funny how things come full circle ...
  • John K - A couple minors corrections if you will permit. Louis Prang did some amazing lithography during the Civil War (prints, letter sheets, etc). However, American-made valentines really got into full swing in the 1850's aided by the 1851 reduction in postal rates. Cards weren't used to any extent before 1870 (first US postal card 1873) as they had to be sent at full postal rates. Prang's cards mostly (that I have seen) date from late 1870's and 1880's.
    Richard Frajola
    www.rfrajola.com
  • PistareenPistareen Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭
    Richard --

    Much appreciated. When it comes to philately, I am a rank amateur!

    ""Here we are not afraid to follow truth, whereever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is free to combat it."

    Th. Jefferson


    (Jefferson knew more about coins than stamps too, considering they hadn't been invented yet.)


    JK
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,551 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you stare at it long enough looking for the old damage, Miss Liberty will wink at you........
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Historically we note that W. Elliot Woodward catalogued this same coin in 1864 and stated in the McCoy sale "This specimen is unfortunately blemished by having the name 'Andrew Spence' prikked into the field of the coin, and some figures on the head, produced by the same process."

    Now, to track down Andrew Spence.

    Could it be?
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • Andy - I forgot to mention: someplace in my notes somebody gave me 1860 census info regarding the sender. It was Samuel E. Coe resident in Mohawk, New York.
    Richard Frajola
    www.rfrajola.com
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,490 ✭✭✭✭✭
    POTD!!image

    POTM!!image

    POTY!!!image

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.american-legacy-coins.com

  • numismanumisma Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Does anybody happen to have the Martin Logies book on 1794 dollars handy. If so, could you please check to see if either S.E. Coe of Mohawk, NY or Elliot Woodward of Roxbury, Mass are listed anywhere as owners of an example. The cover below is circa 1865. Thank you.

    image >>



    This thread is amazing. Question: who wrote "1794 Dollar" on the envelope? Surely this was done once received by Woodward, right?
  • PistareenPistareen Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭
    One little kill-joyish comment.

    The long biography of Woodward posted above was taken from a Woodward family genealogical page (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/2594/woodward/wewoodwardbiography.html) and the description Andy posted was from a former Heritage offering.

    It's generally good form if you're going to cut and paste something from online to acknowledge your source. Someone went to a lot of effort to create both pieces of prose. While both sources are readily available online (and can be reverse engineered in Google), it's still considered courteous at a minimum to mention where it came from.

  • numismanumisma Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭✭

    It's generally good form if you're going to cut and paste something from online to acknowledge your source.

    Without exception.
  • numisma - the common practice in the era was for the recipient to docket the cover (keeping letter enclosed within) with the name and sometimes quick summary of contents. So, that "SE Coe, 1794 Dollar" is in the hand of Woodward and indicates the letter was in reference to a 1794 dollar.

    Usually the envelopes were stored by year, alpha order by sender within that year, and bound in pink ribbon, depending on the number of letters received. They weren't filed like we now file letters.
    Richard Frajola
    www.rfrajola.com
  • I forgot to ask: How much is that AU55 1794 dollar worth these days? $400,000 ish?
    Richard Frajola
    www.rfrajola.com
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ttt, on request...
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • kazkaz Posts: 9,236 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Terrific reading! Threads like this need resurrecting every so often.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,166 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wondered why that coin was still in its old holder. image
  • RegulatedRegulated Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interestingly, this envelope is from 1865, after Woodward had sold the McCoy specimen. Also of note is the fact that there is no primary source material tying the McCoy coin to the MacKenzie Sale, or to Parmelee (or any of the subsequent owners). Even more interesting is the fact that the James Ten Eyck estate had a 1794 Dollar with visible repairs in the exact spots that Woodward describes as damaged on the McCoy coin's obverse; however, the Ten Eyck specimen was not sold until 1922 - 32 years after the Parmelee coin was photographed and sold. All very mysterious.

    What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
  • northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It is nice to see what this forum used to be like. Ah for the good old days.
  • CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,637 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It is nice to see what this forum used to be like. Ah for the good old days. >>



    Nah. I think there was a lot of noise then too. What we really need is a distilled and edited version of the forum, on a daily basis, which pulls out all the good stuff like this discussion. That would be worth paying for.
  • RegulatedRegulated Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nah. I think there was a lot of noise then too. What we really need is a distilled and edited version of the forum, on a daily basis, which pulls out all the good stuff like this discussion. That would be worth paying for.

    Start a blog that just posts the cream of the boards.

    What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
  • I should probably mention here that I compiled the above biography of W. E. Woodward, and originally posted it on geocities.com, which no longer exists. W. E. Woodward was my gt-gt-grandfather.

    Nice that the bio was saved when the site disappeared, but would have been nicer if proper credit had been given.
  • garrynotgarrynot Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭
    Let me see if I understand what happened here. S.E. Coe wrote on the face of an envelope that there was a 1794 Dollar enclosed in the envelope? And then tossed it in the mail?

    I think I am having a heart attack... uh uh uh





    Edited: Just read "Covers" post. Never mind.
  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082
    Suggest you submit the biography to the Numismatist for publication. That will help assign a paper trail to you as the author and copyright holder. Website publications have a way of vanishing, then piece pop up in unexpected places.
  • PistareenPistareen Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭
    Solongago -- Welcome here! B. Max Mehl's grand-nephew is here too, so you'll fit right in.

    I hope you will host the W.E. Woodward bio somewhere new, as it was very well done.

    There are a lot of guys here interested in numismatic history, numismatic literature, and provenance research, so Woodward's name will be well known to them.

    One of my favorite coins I ever owned was pedigreed to Woodward's 1867 Mickley sale -- it's nice to hold something that went through Roxbury those many years ago.
  • firstmintfirstmint Posts: 1,171
    Willam Elliott Woodard became a legend with his numismatic activity in the 19th century. He was also a born collector, writer, publisher, etc.

    I'm sure that the family activity in both numismatics and philatelics (W. E. and son Harlow E., etc.) would be of interest to many today.

    "So Long Ago", please feel free to add any printed background of your Great-Great-Grandfather and other family members in a published venue such as The Numismatist (magazine of the American Numismatic Association) or some other publication devoted to numsimatics (the ANS/COAC publication comes to mind).

    "THANK YOU" for what you contributed already (from one of those numismatic literature bibliophiles and historical researchers).


    PM me if you are looking for U.S. auction catalogs
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Great thread!
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
    Maybe not in this thread but if anyone is interested and can do so, let's start a PCGS Forum 1794 Dollar Collection. I'll certainly do my part! image










  • I have received an email from a decendant of Woodward who writes:

    "Thank you for posting the W. Elliot Woodward cover at http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=617652 . He is my great great grandfather, and I was the one who compiled the biography that "Broadstruck" posted on that thread. I have acquired a bit more information on him than I had back then, if you are interested.

    Do you know the identity or contact information for "Broadstruck"? I suspect he may be the one who sent me a copy of his book years ago, but I can't locate the book at the moment, and don't recall the name.
    Richard Frajola
    www.rfrajola.com
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,606 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It is possible to collect a piece of Civil War script that was issued by the Woodward drug store. It is not that rare. It was often available at the Bay State coin shows when they were held in Boston years ago.

    image
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • I forgot to add: If anybody has current contact info on "broadstruck" please advise and I will pass along.
    Richard Frajola
    www.rfrajola.com
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I forgot to add: If anybody has current contact info on "broadstruck" please advise and I will pass along. >>



    Thanks covers I'll PM you an email address.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,490 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pistareen, from your earlier reply to this thread:

    "W. Eliot Woodward, the addressee of Andy's cool new cover, noted in 1864 regarding the McCoy coin (which was in an NGC 55 holder last time I saw it):

    'This specimen is unfortunately blemished by having the name of 'Andrew Spence' pri*ked into the field of the coin, and some figures on the head, produced by the same process.' (Sorry, word filter caught Mr. Woodward's original verb, which seems highly appropriate.)

    Interesting and curious as to why Woodward would not have employed the verb scribed in his description of the coin. Perhaps the verb he used was intended as a vulgar point of deference to Andrew Spence ? image

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.american-legacy-coins.com

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,551 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Pistareen, from your earlier reply to this thread:

    "W. Eliot Woodward, the addressee of Andy's cool new cover, noted in 1864 regarding the McCoy coin (which was in an NGC 55 holder last time I saw it):

    'This specimen is unfortunately blemished by having the name of 'Andrew Spence' pri*ked into the field of the coin, and some figures on the head, produced by the same process.' (Sorry, word filter caught Mr. Woodward's original verb, which seems highly appropriate.)

    Interesting and curious as to why Woodward would not have employed the verb scribed in his description of the coin. Perhaps the verb he used was intended as a vulgar point of deference to Andrew Spence ? image >>



    I think that "plick" is the proper term to use to describe something scratched with the end of a pin. "Scribed" would imply something properly engraved.

    (As to the censorship of the term, I believe that George Carlin had some observations as to the ambiguities of the verb in his "Seven Deadly WOrds" routine.)
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,490 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Good point CaptainH. Although I usually consider the verb scribe to indicate a somewhat impulsive act of destructively scratching a metal object with a pointed instrument, and the word inscribe to indicate the constructive act of formally engraving a metal object. image

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.american-legacy-coins.com

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