Grades in (Part 1 of 2) !!!!

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TwoKopeiki
TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
in World & Ancient Coins Forum
First of all - way to go PCGS! Received: 09/25 - grades posted today image Granted, the order received on the 21st is still in "OK" status, but I'm not complaining image

As an experiment, I've submitted 3 Canadian Dollars, cut out of freshly-graded ICCS flips to PCGS. One upgraded (60-61), while two downgraded by a grade(62-61 and 65-64). Result - inconclusive. There are a few more ex-ICCS pieces in my first submission that's still pending. The 1949 is a gorgeous toner, as well.

1 1 12063973 32396 1936 S$1 CANADA MS61
2 1 12063974 32399 1938 S$1 CANADA MS61
3 1 12063975 32407 1949 S$1 CANADA MS64

Had a nice and crude Durango War of Independence 8 Reales slabbed. My first raw W4I piece that made it into a PCGS holder. Hopefully the Guadalajara piece in my first submission also grades. Tough to grade these, especially early Durango and Chihuahua pieces, so I don't necessary disagree with the grade given.

4 1 12063976 390146 1816-D MZ 8 R MEXICO VG08

Now, for my best submission to date! imageWoo-hoo!! imageThis is an ex-CNG piece I've purchased from Brett (who has an amazing eye for coins, in my opinion). CNG called in an XF. I didn't quite expect it to come back what it did:

5 1 12063977 513126 1809-Mo TH Real MEXICO MS62

I have a few more Canadian 1$ in my first submission, including a 1950 ARN with the die break and a Churchill Crown image I'll update this thread when the grades are posted.

Here are the Durango 8R and Mexico City 1R:

image

image

Instagram: 8 Reales Numis

Comments

  • Resplandor
    Resplandor Posts: 401 ✭
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    image I love them all!!! Thanks for sharing Roman, by the way what does "W4I piece" stand for?


    Thank you
    Jorge

    ~
  • TwoKopeiki
    TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>image I love them all!!! Thanks for sharing Roman, by the way what does "W4I piece" stand for?


    Thank you
    Jorge >>



    Thanks, Jorge. W4I is an easier way to say War for Independence (1810-1821) I think I picked it up from MrEureka.
    Instagram: 8 Reales Numis
  • BS
    BS Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭
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    Roman, that's very cool.image
  • Resplandor
    Resplandor Posts: 401 ✭
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    That makes a lot of sense.
    Thank you Roman
    Jorge

    ~
  • coinpictures
    coinpictures Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭
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    Gorgeous coin but.... 62?? My first reaction to seeing the piece was 55. I see wear on the tip of the nose and the ribbons on the reverse...
    Numismotography

    1/2 Cents

    U.S. Revenue Stamps

    image
  • ajaan
    ajaan Posts: 18,004 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Did someone say Churchhill Crown? image

    DPOTD-3
    'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

    CU #3245 B.N.A. #428


    Don
  • coinkat
    coinkat Posts: 24,542 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Look at the Churchill in the Teletrade auctionimage

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • coinkat
    coinkat Posts: 24,542 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Oops... forgot to comment on the real coins here... nice submission... VG 8 seems harsh on the 1816... those are horribly struck and uneven at that. The 1809 is a keeper... very attractive look

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • 1jester
    1jester Posts: 8,637 ✭✭✭
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    << <i>Oops... forgot to comment on the real coins here... nice submission... VG 8 seems harsh on the 1816... those are horribly struck and uneven at that. The 1809 is a keeper... very attractive look >>



    I agree. Based on the rims and other details, this coin should be around VF-20 in my opinion.

    imageimageimage
    .....GOD
    image

    "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9

    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5

    "For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
  • Meiji
    Meiji Posts: 170 ✭✭
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    Very nice, but I think the durango should have slabbed higher considering most are very crude. I love the toning on 1809.
  • TwoKopeiki
    TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I don't think PCGS has experience with provisional mints, yet( i'll make sure they've seen enough when I'm done with them image ), and graded it as it would any other issue. If you look at their pop. reports - graded provisional mints only start to appear in 1821 (Zacatecas, Guadalajara), with first large Durango graded in 1824 (Hookneck).

    In addition to the 1814 Guadalajara piece I already have at PCGS, I'm planning to send them a nice 181_ Ga 8 Reales, overstruck on a cast planchet (one of the coolest coins I own... to think of it - I've never posted that one on the boards image )
    Instagram: 8 Reales Numis
  • coinkat
    coinkat Posts: 24,542 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    FTR, I like the 1816 as well...

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • TwoKopeiki
    TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thanks, Coinkat!
    Instagram: 8 Reales Numis
  • worldcoinguy
    worldcoinguy Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Roman - you never disappoint with those pictures! Well done. The 1809 in particular has quite a nice look to it.
  • Rickc300
    Rickc300 Posts: 876 ✭✭
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    image I can't wait to see part TWO! I also think the Durango should be a higher grade than it was given but like you said, these are a bear to grade... You can show the same coin to 10 different collectors and probably get almost as many different grades back. I have one 8 real that has been given grades from VF to MS by people I like to think are much more knowledgeable than myself. These BIG/CRUDE/SILVER coins are far from the cookie cutter types of coins most of us are used to looking at or grading on a daily basis. Having said that, I grade 'em on my scale, INSIR, IPFN, NC, PGL, DGGL, IGTHI, and HCIMOIN!

    I'm Not Sure It's Real, I'll Pass For Now, Nice Coin, Pretty Good Looking, Dog Gone Good Looking, I Got To Have It, and Holy Crap I Must Own It Now!

    Is there really any standard when grading these? Die wear, weak strikes, planchet evenness and other factors must be taken into account. Smoke and mirrors? Your XF may be my VF or MS or vice versa. What do you and everyone else look for in trying to grade these? (I said trying, again, ask 10 collectors and almost as many grades will come about on these coins).

    I have a love hate relationship with all 8 reales!

    Rick
    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed lamb contesting that vote. Benjamin Franklin - 1779

    image
    1836 Capped Liberty
    dime. My oldest US
    detecting find so far.
    I dig almost every
    signal I get for the most
    part. Go figure...
  • TwoKopeiki
    TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>... Is there really any standard when grading these? Die wear, weak strikes, planchet evenness and other factors must be taken into account. Smoke and mirrors? Your XF may be my VF or MS or vice versa. What do you and everyone else look for in trying to grade these? ...

    Rick >>



    Rick, I would grade them the same way I would any other World coin - based on the amount of detail remaining. However in this case, it appears that PCGS also took-off points for planchet defects (thinner area at 3 o'clock that was raised a little during edging process, resulting in loss of detail on the left pillar and the legend in that area "8R M Z", as well as "GRATIA" on the obverse side, but impressing some dentils where the edger pushed silver up). I doubt they would penalize the grade due to die defects (corrosion, cracks, wear) and one of the coins currently at PCGS should tell me if that's the case (1814 Guadalajara with heavy die corrosion on the reverse, but overrall AU detail).

    Anywho, I would grade this Durango piece as VF30 detail, planchet defect, die corrosion / break. If the planchet was even, I think that would be very close to what PCGS would have assigned it.
    Instagram: 8 Reales Numis
  • worldcoinguy
    worldcoinguy Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Where is part 2?
  • TwoKopeiki
    TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>Where is part 2? >>



    It's still at PCGS. They received it a week before the one above and it's still in "OK" status. It's still within the 35 work days, though.
    Instagram: 8 Reales Numis
  • Syracusian
    Syracusian Posts: 6,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    However in this case, it appears that PCGS also took-off points for planchet defects (thinner area at 3 o'clock that was raised a little during edging process, resulting in loss of detail on the left pillar and the legend in that area "8R M Z", as well as "GRATIA" on the obverse side, but impressing some dentils where the edger pushed silver up). I doubt they would penalize the grade due to die defects (corrosion, cracks, wear) and one of the coins currently at PCGS should tell me if that's the case (1814 Guadalajara with heavy die corrosion on the reverse, but overrall AU detail).



    I'm afraid that they will penalize planchet defects, corroded or worn dies, but you might get away with a slightly cracked die.

    I don't think PCGS has experience with provisional mints, yet( i'll make sure they've seen enough when I'm done with them ), and graded it as it would any other issue. If you look at their pop. reports - graded provisional mints only start to appear in 1821 (Zacatecas, Guadalajara), with first large Durango graded in 1824 (Hookneck).


    They're learning on your coins. image


    Nice submission and very informative posts as usual Roman.image
    Dimitri



    myEbay



    DPOTD 3
  • Cgb
    Cgb Posts: 710 ✭
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    WOW! That 1809 is amazing.

    How much do those run?
  • TwoKopeiki
    TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>WOW! That 1809 is amazing.

    How much do those run? >>



    Thanks. As far as how much those run - no idea. I know how much CNG sold it for, how much I paid for it, but that's about it image Not planning to part with it any time soon, though.
    Instagram: 8 Reales Numis
  • TwoKopeiki
    TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>Nice submission and very informative posts as usual Roman.image >>



    Thanks, Dimitri image
    Instagram: 8 Reales Numis
  • TwoKopeiki
    TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The first submission went from "OK" status to actually displaying individual coins, but all still list "Grade Unavailable". It's a good sign, though, with grades normally getting posted shortly after that happens...

    Argh, the suspense is killing me ...



    << <i>4 1 13924423 206560 1965 Crown Churchill Gr.Britain No grade available >>



    image

    Instagram: 8 Reales Numis
  • ajaan
    ajaan Posts: 18,004 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i> 4 1 13924423 206560 1965 Crown Churchill Gr.Britain No grade available >>


    You know who to contact if that badboy grades MS65 or better. image

    DPOTD-3
    'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

    CU #3245 B.N.A. #428


    Don
  • TwoKopeiki
    TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>

    << <i> 4 1 13924423 206560 1965 Crown Churchill Gr.Britain No grade available >>


    You know who to contact if that badboy grades MS65 or better. image >>



    Teletrade? image

    Just kidding, Don. I have high hopes for it. And if I do decide to part with it - you'll be the first one I call.
    Instagram: 8 Reales Numis
  • ajaan
    ajaan Posts: 18,004 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Teletrade definately if it is AT.

    DPOTD-3
    'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

    CU #3245 B.N.A. #428


    Don
  • TwoKopeiki
    TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    What do you think?

    image
    Instagram: 8 Reales Numis
  • ajaan
    ajaan Posts: 18,004 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Dang! That is a nice one. Probably the best I've seen. MS65 is not unreasonable.

    DPOTD-3
    'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

    CU #3245 B.N.A. #428


    Don
  • TwoKopeiki
    TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It's always a gamble image
    Instagram: 8 Reales Numis
  • coinkat
    coinkat Posts: 24,542 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    best of luck in your quest for a 65... this one looks very nice.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • farthing
    farthing Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭
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    MS 63 is my guess on the Churchill image
    R.I.P. Wayne, Brad
    Collecting:
    Conder tokens
    19th & 20th Century coins from Great Britain and the Realm
  • TwoKopeiki
    TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Business day #32 (calendar day #47). How long does it take to body-bag 7 coins? image

    image
    Instagram: 8 Reales Numis
  • Meiji
    Meiji Posts: 170 ✭✭
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    lol I like your gif. Do you make them yourself?
  • MrEureka
    MrEureka Posts: 24,777 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I grade the Durango 8R solid VF.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • 7Jaguars
    7Jaguars Posts: 8,019 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Churchill is 63 with some shot at 64 depending on hands-on presentation.
    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • TwoKopeiki
    TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>lol I like your gif. Do you make them yourself? >>



    These aren't mine - there's a guy in China, I believe, that designed lots of these "bunny smileys". Apparently they are huge in the Orient.

    7Jaguars, that's what I'm hoping for, as well.

    Andy - I agree image
    Instagram: 8 Reales Numis

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