<< <i>I am not much interested in the new venture and I would guess that 90%+ collectors aren't either, but I also think that it is a stretch to think its a competitor, but then I don't make any decisions for the powers to be. >>
Agreed. I don't see them as a competitor but more as a "watchdog agency." To the extent that businesses don't like oversight agencies to second-guess their business decisions or critique their work, I think PCGS has every reason to feel somewhat adversarial. Having said that, "competitor" is probably the wrong term. People don't submit raw coins to CAC instead of PCGS; they submit there *in addition to* PCGS.
<< <i>I've only posted here for less than a year, so I don't have any right to say much..............
In fact it's a priviledge, and if I ever start acting like it's a right to bring my cadre' of supporters here to shill for my new coin business venture, then I should be handed my hat. >>
I was thinking along these lines yesterday. That cadre, oddly silent the last 2 days, might be looking over their shoulders. I know one, who got all this started, is probably checking his pm's frequently
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
It would be very disappointing if Bruce left the forum. Interestingly, his collection has been a marketing centerpoint for PCGS over the last several years. I daresay that PCGS has benefited from his participation in this and other PCGS-sponsored activities more than he has.
Seems a shame to "break-up" over such a stupid idea as the CAC. I think PCGS has every right to protect their business. CAC is all about creating some oversight on the most highly regarded coin grading service in the world. How arrogant and stupid is that? What happens the first time CAC over or understates a coin? And IT WILL happen. O'h I know! let's start a third service. We can call it, FCK.
Expertise generally begets arrogance, and arrogance is where meaning is lost. A true resource will be lost here on the boards but it has nothing to do with PCGS. If I were the king of these baords I would have pulled that trigger long ago! And entertain discussions about how to make PCGS even better.
<< <i>I am not much interested in the new venture and I would guess that 90%+ collectors aren't either, but I also think that it is a stretch to think its a competitor, but then I don't make any decisions for the powers to be. >>
Agreed. I don't see them as a competitor but more as a "watchdog agency." To the extent that businesses don't like oversight agencies to second-guess their business decisions or critique their work, I think PCGS has every reason to feel somewhat adversarial. Having said that, "competitor" is probably the wrong term. People don't submit raw coins to CAC instead of PCGS; they submit there *in addition to* PCGS. >>
Brothers, I agree that the CAC is no more than a "watchdog agency". I don't really see why the TPGs are getting all worked up over this. The TPGs need only to look back at their own beginnings. As some of you older brothers can attest to there were many complaints about the grading of coins back then. The TPGs saw themselves as the answer and started up. You could say they "second guessed" every coin dealer in business.
I do believe, however, that this is PCGS's forum and they have the right to police it. With that said, TPGs must realize that there have been a ton of complaints about consistancy in grading. Just as TPGs did a couple decades ago, CAC now see themselves as the answer to the new problem and are also starting up.
Since competition brings out the best in all of us, I'm giving them a chance and ol' curly wishes them well.
<< <i>It would be very disappointing if Bruce left the forum. Interestingly, his collection has been a marketing centerpoint for PCGS over the last several years. I daresay that PCGS has benefited from his participation in this and other PCGS-sponsored activities more than he has. >>
Yup, all Bruce would have to do is to take his coins and have them crossed to NGC. I'm sure NGC would love to have them in their holders, put his name on the slab and I'd bet you wouldn't see any drop in price should they come to auction being in new plastic. Sure, the kool-aid drinkers wouldn't buy them because they aren't slabbed in the "right" plastic in their eyes, but the real collectors in these high end series would be foaming at the mouths to get them; you know, the ones the see the coin and the plastic tomb they are encased in. Why a TPG would want to push away one of their main collectors that they use to market their services, is beyond me.
If Bruce were to take all his coins and swap them into NGC plastic "just to spite PCGS" it wouldn't have any bearing on PCGS - he didn't frikkin' create the coins, geez. Probably, long after he, I and others are gone, if they've "left" at any point in time they'll make it right back into PCGS plastic - where they happen to look better, aesthetically. But the coins themselves, won't have changed (unless someone tries to "improve" them, of course.)
<< <i>"Real" collectors would be foaming at the mouth to get them, and then cross them right into PCGS plastic, where they look better aesthetically. Duh! >>
....says the guy with a Mercury dime avatar in NGC plastic......
and FYI, there are many that actually prefer the NGC slab. I know this kind of common sense may be foreign to you, but it's true.
Yup, all Bruce would have to do is to take his coins and have them crossed to NGC. I'm sure NGC would love to have them in their holders, put his name on the slab and I'd bet you wouldn't see any drop in price should they come to auction being in new plastic. Sure, the kool-aid drinkers wouldn't buy them because they aren't slabbed in the "right" plastic in their eyes, but the real collectors in these high end series would be foaming at the mouths to get them; you know, the ones the see the coin and the plastic tomb they are encased in. Why a TPG would want to push away one of their main collectors that they use to market their services, is beyond me. >>
Betcha they would.
Bruce...you want to do it? You might even get some upgrades.
Yup, all Bruce would have to do is to take his coins and have them crossed to NGC. I'm sure NGC would love to have them in their holders, put his name on the slab and I'd bet you wouldn't see any drop in price should they come to auction being in new plastic. Sure, the kool-aid drinkers wouldn't buy them because they aren't slabbed in the "right" plastic in their eyes, but the real collectors in these high end series would be foaming at the mouths to get them; you know, the ones the see the coin and the plastic tomb they are encased in. Why a TPG would want to push away one of their main collectors that they use to market their services, is beyond me. >>
Betcha they would.
Bruce...you want to do it? You might even get some upgrades. >>
you're telling me that if a top rare set went to auction, regardless if it were PCGS or NGC, the real collectors of this type of material wouldn't turn out in droves to actually look at the coins, and not the plastic? You state in your rant post that a collector/buyer needs to have good eyes and knowledge to see PQ coins; these type of coins that Bruce would be selling would certainly appeal to those with discriminating taste, and I'd bet that these people buy coins in whatever plastic it is entombed in; for strong money. Coins like these don't sell everyday, and those that would stay home due to the fact it is not their brand of "kool-aid" are fools.
Comments
<< <i>I am not much interested in the new venture and I would guess that 90%+ collectors aren't either, but I also think that it is a stretch to think its a competitor, but then I don't make any decisions for the powers to be. >>
Agreed. I don't see them as a competitor but more as a "watchdog agency." To the extent that businesses don't like oversight agencies to second-guess their business decisions or critique their work, I think PCGS has every reason to feel somewhat adversarial. Having said that, "competitor" is probably the wrong term. People don't submit raw coins to CAC instead of PCGS; they submit there *in addition to* PCGS.
That said, why'd I start?! Sheesh, I'm beginning to think I'd lose less blood if I'd gotten into politics.
<< <i>I've only posted here for less than a year, so I don't have any right to say much..............
In fact it's a priviledge, and if I ever start acting like it's a right to bring my cadre' of supporters here to shill for my new coin business venture, then I should be handed my hat. >>
I was thinking along these lines yesterday. That cadre, oddly silent the last 2 days, might be looking over their shoulders. I know one, who got all this started, is probably checking his pm's frequently
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>On this Forum, one has to make the decision as to whether one is an
individual or a representative of a company or service that is a competitor
of the management of the Forum. This is a question that honorable people have
to make all the time. Sometimes, this Forum loses really good people and sometimes we
gain really good people. The rules on this Forum are for all of us and are reasonable in a business
sense. No Forum can please all of the members, all of the time. That is just the way of life.
In any event, life does go on, the sun continues to rise and tomorrow will, in all probability,
arrive on time. >>
Here! Here! Well spoken!!!!
Expertise generally begets arrogance, and arrogance is where meaning is lost. A true resource will be lost here on the boards but it has nothing to do with PCGS. If I were the king of these baords I would have pulled that trigger long ago! And entertain discussions about how to make PCGS even better.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>I am not much interested in the new venture and I would guess that 90%+ collectors aren't either, but I also think that it is a stretch to think its a competitor, but then I don't make any decisions for the powers to be. >>
Agreed. I don't see them as a competitor but more as a "watchdog agency." To the extent that businesses don't like oversight agencies to second-guess their business decisions or critique their work, I think PCGS has every reason to feel somewhat adversarial. Having said that, "competitor" is probably the wrong term. People don't submit raw coins to CAC instead of PCGS; they submit there *in addition to* PCGS. >>
Brothers, I agree that the CAC is no more than a "watchdog agency". I don't really see why the TPGs are getting all worked up over this. The TPGs need only to look back at their own beginnings. As some of you older brothers can attest to there were many complaints about the grading of coins back then. The TPGs saw themselves as the answer and started up. You could say they "second guessed" every coin dealer in business.
I do believe, however, that this is PCGS's forum and they have the right to police it. With that said, TPGs must realize that there have been a ton of complaints about consistancy in grading. Just as TPGs did a couple decades ago, CAC now see themselves as the answer to the new problem and are also starting up.
Since competition brings out the best in all of us, I'm giving them a chance and ol' curly wishes them well.
<< <i>It would be very disappointing if Bruce left the forum. Interestingly, his collection has been a marketing centerpoint for PCGS over the last several years. I daresay that PCGS has benefited from his participation in this and other PCGS-sponsored activities more than he has. >>
Yup, all Bruce would have to do is to take his coins and have them crossed to NGC. I'm sure NGC would love to have them in their holders, put his name on the slab and I'd bet you wouldn't see any drop in price should they come to auction being in new plastic. Sure, the kool-aid drinkers wouldn't buy them because they aren't slabbed in the "right" plastic in their eyes, but the real collectors in these high end series would be foaming at the mouths to get them; you know, the ones the see the coin and the plastic tomb they are encased in. Why a TPG would want to push away one of their main collectors that they use to market their services, is beyond me.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>He's posting this morning in another thread, so nothing's changed. What was the point of this thread? >>
That if I got nuked, people who cared knew where to find me. Obviously, I didn't get nuked.
<< <i>"Real" collectors would be foaming at the mouth to get them, and then cross them right into PCGS plastic, where they look better aesthetically. Duh!
....says the guy with a Mercury dime avatar in NGC plastic......
and FYI, there are many that actually prefer the NGC slab. I know this kind of common sense may be foreign to you, but it's true.
All I want to say is we have one gracious host.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
Yup, all Bruce would have to do is to take his coins and have them crossed to NGC. I'm sure NGC would love to have them in their holders, put his name on the slab and I'd bet you wouldn't see any drop in price should they come to auction being in new plastic. Sure, the kool-aid drinkers wouldn't buy them because they aren't slabbed in the "right" plastic in their eyes, but the real collectors in these high end series would be foaming at the mouths to get them; you know, the ones the see the coin and the plastic tomb they are encased in. Why a TPG would want to push away one of their main collectors that they use to market their services, is beyond me. >>
Betcha they would.
Bruce...you want to do it? You might even get some upgrades.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Yup, all Bruce would have to do is to take his coins and have them crossed to NGC. I'm sure NGC would love to have them in their holders, put his name on the slab and I'd bet you wouldn't see any drop in price should they come to auction being in new plastic. Sure, the kool-aid drinkers wouldn't buy them because they aren't slabbed in the "right" plastic in their eyes, but the real collectors in these high end series would be foaming at the mouths to get them; you know, the ones the see the coin and the plastic tomb they are encased in. Why a TPG would want to push away one of their main collectors that they use to market their services, is beyond me. >>
Betcha they would.
Bruce...you want to do it? You might even get some upgrades.
you're telling me that if a top rare set went to auction, regardless if it were PCGS or NGC, the real collectors of this type of material wouldn't turn out in droves to actually look at the coins, and not the plastic? You state in your rant post that a collector/buyer needs to have good eyes and knowledge to see PQ coins; these type of coins that Bruce would be selling would certainly appeal to those with discriminating taste, and I'd bet that these people buy coins in whatever plastic it is entombed in; for strong money. Coins like these don't sell everyday, and those that would stay home due to the fact it is not their brand of "kool-aid" are fools.