Do PCGS holders cause milk spots - WITH PICTURES
jessewvu
Posts: 5,065 ✭✭✭✭✭
I think so. I recently submitted my personal ASE collection to PCGS for grading, a total of 11 coins. I have had all the coins stored in my basement, which has been kept dry since I bought them directly from the US Mint over the past several years. All coins were sent into PCGS with no problems at all, no milk spots, no hazing, nothing. They were all really nice looking.
Well, I got my coins back from PCGS and put them back in my basement, in the same spot, and pulled them out tonight to update my coin inventory. Well, to my surprise, several coins now have very noticable milk spots. Many more have what look like the onset of spots. What the heck is going on? These were graded less than two months ago!
Edited to add:
Now that I look at the coins, it looks like the PCGS grader had some sort of chemical on their fingers, the EXTREMELY bad milk spots are on the edges of the coin where they would hold it/flip it over...
Well, I got my coins back from PCGS and put them back in my basement, in the same spot, and pulled them out tonight to update my coin inventory. Well, to my surprise, several coins now have very noticable milk spots. Many more have what look like the onset of spots. What the heck is going on? These were graded less than two months ago!
Edited to add:
Now that I look at the coins, it looks like the PCGS grader had some sort of chemical on their fingers, the EXTREMELY bad milk spots are on the edges of the coin where they would hold it/flip it over...
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Comments
<< <i>I think they will develop spots regardless. Send them back to PCGS for a review and money back. >>
You would think that after 10 years they would be OK. The ONLY difference in this coin is that it went from the US Mint capsule to a PCGS holder.
<< <i>
<< <i>I think they will develop spots regardless. Send them back to PCGS for a review and money back. >>
You would think that after 10 years they would be OK. The ONLY difference in this coin is that it went from the US Mint capsule to a PCGS holder. >>
Not true...the environment of where it was stored changed as well. You basement may not have interacted with it but different environments during their trip to get grading may have contributed to the spotting.
PCGS has stated they are sometimes successful in getting rid of milkspots on proofs....give them a try with the guarantee.....
You didn't state what the coins graded (ie....if 69/70, I would assume no milkspots seen during grading....if 68 or less, maybe small spot or more (if really lower)).
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
i have seen coins turn in NGC slabs as well as OGP...but very very rare in OGP.
i don't know what to tell ya but send em back for a presidential review and get your money back.
something DID happen to that coin. something that precipitated the spotting and gunking in the slabbing process..just can't tell you what.
next time you send a silver proof or any silver in to be graded (if it is raw) and doesn't need to be sealed for any FS designation or Anniversary label, dip it in acetone and put it back in the capsule.
if you are keeping anything long term raw dip it and vacuum seal it.
send a PM to me please, regarding the spotting issue.
Who knows what caused it, but it should not be the holder.
<< <i>
You didn't state what the coins graded (ie....if 69/70, I would assume no milkspots seen during grading....if 68 or less, maybe small spot or more (if really lower)). >>
Good point. The really bad ones were graded 68 but I looked them over and didn't see any spots. I have never thought about the trip over to PCGS though, that is a really good point. I always send my coins via express mail. I wonder if I should have vacum packed them. Maybe I will start vacum packing all of my silver coins that are sent to PCGS....
<< <i>
<< <i>
You didn't state what the coins graded (ie....if 69/70, I would assume no milkspots seen during grading....if 68 or less, maybe small spot or more (if really lower)). >>
Good point. The really bad ones were graded 68 but I looked them over and didn't see any spots. I have never thought about the trip over to PCGS though, that is a really good point. I always send my coins via express mail. I wonder if I should have vacum packed them. Maybe I will start vacum packing all of my silver coins that are sent to PCGS.... >>
Not sure where you live but express mail usually flies and they do not have heated cargo areas. That is pretty extreme going from warm to cold back to warm again. I usually ship registered which is ground all the way.
AL
2. despite what you think, a basement is by nature the most humid place in a home and probably the worst place to store coins.
3. it's entirely possible that the contaminants at the edges came from your fingers when you placed the coins in flips to go to PCGS and that the spotting was caused by water droplets from your breath. when the coins returned from PCGS and you placed them in your basement in an enclosed space for a long duration, the change took place.
i never had a problem with spotting or any change in appearance.
<< <i>
3. it's entirely possible that the contaminants at the edges came from your fingers when you placed the coins in flips to go to PCGS and that the spotting was caused by water droplets from your breath. when the coins returned from PCGS and you placed them in your basement in an enclosed space for a long duration, the change took place. >>
I have never, ever taken the coins out of their capsules that the mint packaged them in. I never had the desire to hold them in my hand. I took the plastic capsules out of their velvet case and sent those in wrapped in bubble wrap. I have had a subscription from the mint since they started doing it and can assure the coins were never taken out of the plastic capsule, except by PCGS. I also had PCGS return the capsules to me in case I need to crack them out someday. I run my humidifier on "dry" because my office and recreational center are down there.
I have given up on trying to figure out how to prevent milking, and only buy ASE's for their silver content.
All of my 96's milked, in vacuum sealed bags. Only the 96's, not the other high mintage dates, go figure.
Another solution, just put them in a Dansco and let em tone.
I'm sending off quite a few to NGC, for a review, or cleaning, or a refund.
<< <i>My solution, don't collect ASE's for numismatic reasons, just treat them as bullion. >>
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
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It would be interesting to do some analysis on the spots. Are there contaminants on the surface, and what are they? Knowing this would help to develop an effective means to rinse/neutralize these contaminants.
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<< <i>I wonder if the USPS ever expanded there Mail Irradiation Program they started after the Anthrax Attacks? Seems like there was some problems with coins that went through the DC area right after that. Could be they went nationwide. >>
I remember some slabs getting melted because of the irradiation machine.
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Eric
<< <i>They will develop spots no matter what. >>
This suggests that all SAE will eventually spot some day "no matter what" and I disagree. Clearly there is a problem with these issues, and there are plenty of people who have evidence of this, but to throw a milk spotting blanket over every SAE is totally unfounded.
Having read through many threads on these boards regarding this issue there is a trend that has developed pointing to the whole slabbing process, handling, shipping, change in zip codes etc. that in my opinion is the major culprit here. When left in their OGP, untouched and not messed with, these SAE appear to stay quite stable and milk spot free. I know there are some who can provide examples of spotted SAEs in their OGP but there is more evidence suggesting the less these Eagles are handled the less they tend to spot. Seems pretty straight forward to me.
Some of mine are over 20 years old and I have yet to have a single SAE spot. *Fingers crossed* I bet if I send them off for slabbing some will develop spotting. Just leave them alone people.
<< <i> All of my eagles live in their OGP in a safe in the basement. They have been there for 15+ years. Never a spot. Here's hoping they stay that way. >>
See.
<< <i>
i gots me one of them now, too. a black and decker sucker right off that there place ebay, used, from a smoker...honest...dang thing works pretty good, too
It seems to me to be common sense, and PCGS will not have to do as many spot reviews as they are currently doing, hence not lose as much profit to paying out for milkspotted coins.
Please enlighten me if am I missing something here??
also never get acetone close to PCGS plastic..or capsules....it will dissolve it into a gunk.
the acetone does evaporate rapidly off of a raw coin though...just be sure it's dry even in the reeds before plunking into a capsule or flip
<< <i>We would lose about thirty percent of thread volume if we did not talk about milk spots or AT/NT.... over and over and over again. Cheers, RickO >>
...And lose even more if those who had nothing to contribute to the thread kept to themselves. I see more threads by you lately that do nothing but b1tch.