Can you identify what's wrong with this coin?

GoldenEyeNumismatics · October 22, 2007 2:02PM

This coin is otherwise an overall attractive, VF/XF, original bust dollar. However, there is a major problem with it that severely impairs the value. Can you see it? No, the coin is not counterfeit.

So can you tell what it is?

Cladiator · October 22, 2007 2:04PM

Re-engraved shield lines?

Cladiator · October 22, 2007 2:05PM

Hole (now plugged) between B and E of LIBERTY?

DUIGUY · October 22, 2007 2:06PM

Repared. Obverse in da cleavage area.

ILikeMercs · October 22, 2007 2:06PM

what is that above the stars on the rev?

tightbudget · October 22, 2007 2:06PM

I'm gonna go with plugged

GoldenEyeNumismatics · October 22, 2007 2:09PM

<< <i>Hole (now plugged) between B and E of LIBERTY? >>

Ugg! Going and ruining my fun!

Yes, this coin is plugged, extremely deceptively. It's even less noticable in hand. The hole actually contained the entire area that was the "E" in Liberty, and the E has been completely recreated. So have many of the tail feathers on the reverse.

It's one of the best plug jobs I've ever seen.

Type2 · October 22, 2007 2:10PM

Rim dings and a copy from China and all the pot marks and the stars.Did I get one right.

Cladiator · October 22, 2007 2:12PM

Pretty cool. How did you discover it? Maybe by the E not matching up to any other E's of known dies? That's when the heart skips a beat and you know you've got something odd. It's either a new die (cha-ching!!!), a counterfeit (ouch!!) or a re-engraved coin (still an ouch!). Sucks when the outcome is like it is for your coin but it's still a rush figuring it out.

PrivateCoinCollector · October 22, 2007 2:17PM

The "E" looks a bit to wide. It was my first inclination, but before I could go get one to look at I had read down the thread. That is a good job, and I am fairly sure had you not said something was wrong with it I would have looked at it hard enough to notice.

Thanks, great educational thread.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · October 22, 2007 2:24PM

<< <i>Pretty cool. How did you discover it? Maybe by the E not matching up to any other E's of known dies? That's when the heart skips a beat and you know you've got something odd. It's either a new die (cha-ching!!!), a counterfeit (ouch!!) or a re-engraved coin (still an ouch!). Sucks when the outcome is like it is for your coin but it's still a rush figuring it out.

>>

How did I find out? NGC sent her home in a body bag! It completely bypassed me! I took me 12 months to find the plug (well, I looked at it, couldn't find it, put the coin away and a year kater took it out again and found it)

pharmer · October 22, 2007 2:27PM

Clad's good. REAL good.

rec78 · October 22, 2007 2:35PM

plugged- between states and of?

nankraut · October 22, 2007 2:35PM

Very skillfull repair job, that's for sure.

StampAlarm · October 22, 2007 2:48PM

<< <i>Pretty cool. How did you discover it? Maybe by the E not matching up to any other E's of known dies? That's when the heart skips a beat and you know you've got something odd. It's either a new die (cha-ching!!!), a counterfeit (ouch!!) or a re-engraved coin (still an ouch!). Sucks when the outcome is like it is for your coin but it's still a rush figuring it out.

>>

Is it possible someone still re engraved the shield lines at the same time as putting in the plug? Or
is that idea now out the window.

Jerry

seanq · October 22, 2007 3:06PM

The 'E' definitely looks too wide, though I don't know if I would have seen it had you not said there was a problem with the coin. Looking at the reverse only I never would have ever guessed that the coin had been plugged and repaired.

Sean Reynolds

CaptHenway · October 22, 2007 3:21PM

Plugged, with the E and the tail feathers recreated by hand. Probably done by P.E. Stockton of Kentucky, who used to advertise in the Numismatist that he repaired coins. This is typical of his workmanship. Notice the crude denticles below the tail feathers. He could never get those right.

When I was at ANACS we got in a High Relief with a pin soldered onto the field on one side. We gertified it as genuine, mounted. About six months later the owner sent it back and said that he had had Stockton remove the pin. Even with the old photo certificate in hand, which proved that it was the same coin, you could not see any evidence that the coin had ever been mounted.

TD

coppercoins · October 22, 2007 4:04PM

Even without knowing the design all too well I could see the tail feathers were hand cut, but what really gave it away was the lack of flow lines on the tops of the denticles just below the tail feathers...they are squared off and sharp on the top, unlike all the denticles around them. Nice plug job, but it could have been done more descreetly.

tychojoe · October 22, 2007 6:04PM

Good thread!~

Probably done by P.E. Stockton of Kentucky, who used to advertise in the Numismatist that he repaired coins. This is typical of his workmanship. Notice the crude denticles below the tail feathers. He could never get those right.

This is one reason I like reading these boards! It's a small world...

messydesk · October 22, 2007 10:43PM

The E in LIBERTY stuck out like a sore thumb to me, but that could be because you said the coin had a major problem. I wonder what I and others would have thought had you just posted it as a GTG coin.

commoncents05 · October 22, 2007 11:09PM

The plug job jumped right out at me. I've seen this a lot on old Bust Dollars, so I that was the first thing I looked for, and that E is not even close to being right.

-Paul

jmj3esq · October 23, 2007 12:09AM

That is the finest plug job I have ever seen. I do believe I would never have noticed taht until a "problem" was brought to my attention. I have been looking for a nice early dollar or half. I better start looking closer for problems.

Gemineye · October 23, 2007 12:30AM

Why does the head of the Eagle look like a Gator...

UtahCoin · October 23, 2007 12:58AM

All and all, nicely repaired.

Coinsponge · October 23, 2007 1:25AM

The letter bottoms in "States" look funny to me. Pretty well defined for a coin that has no cloud definition. My 2C.

CappedBustDimes · October 23, 2007 2:30AM

i suspect tooling on motto. the detail does not correlate with the wear on eagle's head.

STONE · October 23, 2007 3:13AM

Holed and expertly repaired at 12 o'clock.

Notice the slightly enlongated "E" of LIBERTY

olmanjon · October 23, 2007 3:49AM

OK- after all is said and done-what is this coins value if it had not been repaired--what is its value now and what would have been the value if it didn't need to be repaired?

GoldenEyeNumismatics · October 23, 2007 4:08AM

<< <i>The letter bottoms in "States" look funny to me. Pretty well defined for a coin that has no cloud definition. My 2C. >>

It's not tooled beyind the plug job. The clouds are more visible in hand, it jus photo'd poorly

Can you identify what's wrong with this coin?

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