SL98 I have their treatise next to my O/P book. I use it all the time. Alot of research went into that work. It is a must have book for the Bust Half series.
You said"...With that information, will you reconstruct the sequence that causes you to think remarriage? "
This sequence is from what Edgar had said below.
"This marriage of the 1812 is thought to be connected with the O-105 again, later, in a possible remarriage as a LDS of O-105(a) that shows the obverse with an additional crack that wasn't described by Overton/Parsley until later in the book with O-106's creation with the different reverse."
If I had a few more of these, I would definitely attempt it.
Then when you feel something is right, then "poof" you're not. I had that happen to me earlier this year when I thought I had discovered a new Master Die for 1827. Turned out to be a New Master Hub.
Thanks Tennisman12... Now it's your turn to add to this "...interesting discussion!" You need to tell us where your O-105a falls into this sequence. Review the LDS O-105a then yes or no on anything that yours has or is lacking. I guess make a check-off list for your coin.
I can see on the reverse the start of the formation of the die crack in the scroll by A2. It started to do the same to Rev. D. Does it have the die crack extending beyond "C" in Cent? How extensive are the cracks at the Stars and nose forehead area? Can you see the crack running along the hairline at the base of the top curls at the eye? Get out your loupe!
The possibility of a remarriage hangs on both 105 and 106 both appearing with and without the crack at star 13 if I read this correctly. To prove a remarriage, one of the following must happen. Either a late 105, demonstrably later than the earliest 106 must be found or edge dies studied to confirm that at least one 105 was coined after at least one 106. As for the former, I doubt that is possible. The presence or absence of a thin spindly crack isn't enough. When the reverse die was changed, the obverse may have been lapped, temporarily removing that crack or causing it to not appear from the first few strikes in its new marriage, for whatever reason. The latter possibility holds out hope.
The edge dies wore and were changed just like obverse and reverse dies. Sometimes they held up for a very long time, edging hundreds of thousands of coins. Other times they wore out quickly. Observe and compare the edges of of late 105s and early 106s. Ask others to bring raw examples to the next show for comparison. After studying these for a while you will observe the same sorts of anomalies as on obverses and reverses and please let us know what you find.
Thank you for stoking the debate! This is the very best use of this forum!
Ok Someguy, now you are asking me to use my brain. I will do my best. On the 1812 O 105a above, upon inspection I do not see any cracks at A2/scroll or at the C in cents, or any crack at nose, but there is a very light, and I mean light, start of a crack at the forehead to star 6 and the crack that starts at the first 1 is very light up to star 7. I would guess? this is a EDS? or maybe the crack at nose was lapped off? Here is some more to study, my three 1812 O 106's. These were R 5's in the late 70's early 80's per the 1970 Overton book, and were easy for me to identify, thus why I have 3, plus I sold one to Stu Keen several months back. Hope this will help in the study.
Edgar Go into your profile for private messaging and check the box. Now I don't know why you are getting "Not Received - Identified as SPAM. I don't have you blocked, maybe it's your settings? But here in two parts are a few findings....
HI Edgar
Its been awhile since I've had a response from you.
This is what I've been working on this week...
Comparison O-105a to O-106a terminal state.
What I have found.... From this O-105a die state showing comparison to the terminal state of O-106a. Die was lapped as seen in the picture comparison.
Notes: Small raised square spot left of the first 1, now a small dot on O-106a, this is along the die crack to the left of 1.
The 8 now shows a cud from a die chip in the lower loop which later forms a chevron.
In O-105a, there is a blob in the upper right of the upper loop. In O-106a it looks like a line.
New cracks formed at the center of 8 on the right side going diagonally upward. (O-106a) One from the tip of the lower bust to the edge.
O-105a Star 13 short crack lapped off later (O-106?), star point now sharp. (O-106a shorter and turned to the right, like bent.)
Die crack reappears in O-106a heavier and slightly shifted.
Small knock in the first 1 (upper serif). Looks like a small dot on O-106a.
Left side of die sunken. (O-106a)
If you have a good scan of a 1812 O-106 obv., could you please forward it to me?
So, does that mean that somewhere out there exists a O-106 without the second side of 8 filling and without lapping to star 13?
I have really come to enjoy the daily dose of CU Forums LECBHD Facts!
Regards Edgar
Mike
Part 2: Thanks Ed
I haven't had a good look at a O-106 EDS, I have a feeling that I'm going to find my answer there! With the lapping after LDS O-105a, the O-106 will have hidden attributes! They just have to be found or in other words turning over the right rock.
I can see that in your IDS O-106 that the lowest point of Star 13 changed, as it continued in O-106a. The die crack, is really an illusion from the LDS O-105a lapped, shorter and as it has changed direction. (Star 13)
Your IDS O-106, although not an "a" model, the Key to that is the sunken die! The multi-relief around the date and the "Chevron" in the 8.
Interesting side note here! I'm only looking at the Date and Star13 ! You ask why, possibly? This is the place of movement! The stress of the die was at the die crack through 2 and the one diagonally thru 8. This triangle finally broke inside the die, a small shift, it buckles the area between 2 and Star 13, the entire left central portion drops internally. So the most desired O-106a in my mind would just later than Edgars new purchase, with the full crack coming down from the bust to 1 & 8 meeting the diagonal crack from the left Bust and 1, to the rim, with the one from 2 to the rim, Edgar's show fine lines of the cracks. They would have ones similar as the one at Star13 all over...Terminated obverse! Mike...
Yours are a little later than I needed ! I was looking for an EDS, without the chevron in the 8. But to have three of them, thats great. Yes, this state is fairly easy to ID with the obverse cracks, but the reverse is the dead give away in this marriage. I wonder what the EDS shows? It would be pretty Cool to have a 100 of these to show the progression of this dies Termination.
JRocco You posted your O-105, with close up of the date. Could you post it again but include left side point of the Bust and just beyond Star 13. With a clear scan just like you posted first? Thanks... Mike...
If you notice in the lower loop of the 8, you see the die crack. After a lapping of the die, a chip breaks off, it is then that the 8 starts to fill. Also note how Crisp the 2 is before the crack goes through it. Really no sign of a crack at Star 13.
Thanks again! I think this is progressing nicely...
That one won't work in my made up puzzle piece. o'Well ! But you can see it is possible to digitally put pieces together. Then enhancing the image. Mike
The 1812 O-110a, R1 is a missing die STATE from this Thread.
Here is my contribution which is an Intermediate Die State of the 1812 O-110a.
Per the O/P book the O-110a has a long die crack that does NOT appear on the O-110.
This die crack extends from milling below olive leaves along base of UNITED STAT then to the scroll. In the Late Die State this die crack extends further to the edge at R in AMERICA.
I do not have an example to show with this complete die crack. Does anyone have one of these to post on this Thread?
My IDS coin has the die crack from the milling below the olive leaves running along the base of UNITED S. (red arrows)
Read your posts above - finallly - after resolving the "squirrels eating my cable lines outside" fiasco.
I've enclosed a close up showing the die crack at the back of the curl turning into a blob from a "chip out" (image below). You might want to check your images against this one too and see where they fall. Interesting study!
I agree with you that the supposed crack at star 13 is not really a crack at the point that it appears to be one. It's die wear and a straight pull to the edge. It wore a good grove in the die from the star point of star 13 to edge. They then heavily lapped this area. This "could" have weakened the area causing the later crack at Star 13. The entire obverse die collapsed on the left, I believe, due to a gas bubble in the core of the die which allowed the movement INWARD giving us the weakness.
Regards,
Edgar
P.S. I think Mozin posted an EDS at the beginning of this thread. He might be able to supply a BIG close-up.
Thanks Edgar! Squirrels you say... Must be all kinds of NUTS in Michigan !
Thanks for the picture, this one is of your negative. Showing the detail and the other crack along the back of the hair. Notice the Star ends with the shortened and twisted ends.
You think a bubble in the die steel? Not the brittling from reheating effect? Correct me if I'm wrong, the mint wasn't using "Cast Steel" yet was it?
If any one can help, if you have a good scan or picture of the O-106 EDS!
As usual, please comment on which type this is, and what you think of it, thanks:
Exclusively collecting Capped Bust Halves in VF to AU, especially rarity 3 and up. Joe G. Great BST purchases completed with commoncents123, p8nt, blu62vette and Stuart. Great coin swaps completed with rah1959, eyoung429 and Zug. Top-notch consignment experience with Russ.
Exclusively collecting Capped Bust Halves in VF to AU, especially rarity 3 and up. Joe G. Great BST purchases completed with commoncents123, p8nt, blu62vette and Stuart. Great coin swaps completed with rah1959, eyoung429 and Zug. Top-notch consignment experience with Russ.
Just purchased this 1812 Bust half. I think it has the attributes of what you refer to as the 1812 O-108a, R2. Here is the evidence.
and the specifics.
1. One much higher than 812 - 81 closer than 18 or 12. 2. AM and CA appear to touch. 3. Die crack from olive leaves to base of the U. 4. Die crack above UNITED STAT. 5. Die crack through TES crossing the scroll and through the field to the eagle's left wing. 6. Die crack at the date between 81 (this appears to start to the left of the first one and migrate to the two - but that could be my imagination). 7. Die crack across the eagle's head. 8. Die crack at 50 C.
There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt. –John Adams, 1826
Thanks mozin. My visits are likely to be single digit events - the 1812 has been a goal of mine for a while now and I'm not likely to be buying additional CBHs anytime soon. I have enjoyed reading this thread and looking at some of the other date threads these past few days. I also enjoyed the challenge of attempting to read the diagnostics of various die marriages on my bust. Very interesting! This hobby has a myriad of twists and turns that attract hobbiests and professionals alike - does it not. It was fun to visit your world. My particular hot buttons include viewing and sometimes owning honestly toned coins (all varieties) and photography (an activity that keeps me humble).
There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt. –John Adams, 1826
I picked this up today, it was an impulse buy. I know nothing about the series, but it's in better shape relative to the 1803 it was next to. They were both the same price, now that I've had a chance to look up values it looks like I would have done better with the '03. But it's my first Bustie and I'm pleased with it. It supplants my 1835 half cent as my oldest coin. I'm surprised these don't command higher prices, I mean really, this is from Madison's 1st term. So what die marriage did I stumble into?
Thanks mozin for the info and hospitality. I'll just be passing through though, my collecting lacks focus as it is. I'll have to tackle Busties and Overtons at a (much) later date. But thanks to all who post such great specimens, I can get a contact buzz. And my apologies to the forum for the bad etiquette with the large photos.
This 1812 posting is in direct response to GAB's request on 9/2/07.
GAB, on the 1836 thread, following my posting of my Dansco pages with the 1836 obverses, asked me to also post the reverses. I have hestitated doing this for reasons I stated on the 1836 thread.
Following is first Dansco page containing the 1812 O-101 thru 1812 O-108. (This has not been posted here before.) The rest of the 1812's (the O-108 thru 1812 O-110b) can been seen on the 1813 thread. This is because they are on the same Dansco page where my 1813's begin.
Following the obverses you will see the reverses. The reverses are not labeled as to date and Overton number. Remember (in theory) the reverses are struck in a 180 degree rotation from the obverses.
If I show both the obverses and the reverses "right side up," then their location on the Dansco page changes. For example, the 1812 O-101 obverse - clearly labeled - is in the UPPER left corner. Its reverse - not labeled - can be seen in the LOWER left corner.
This is easy to spot and remember on this Dansco page. (1) because the coin has dark toning and (2) because, in numerical order, the O-101 just happens to fall in the upper left of the obverses - this is true only on a couple of my Dansco pages.
Please read my posting on the 1836 thread in response to GAB's request and give me your feedback.
SIDE NOTE: The obverses have been scanned "right side up." Therefore if the reverses are not "perfectly straight up and down," this is because of die rotation - which we are all aware of.
Here is the 1812 O-101 thru O-108 and the reverses:
Obverse: Star 1 points to upper half of dentil. Centering dot shows on neck. Star 7 points to upper edge of dentil, and to center of curl.
Reverse: A pair of die lines, the upper one much longer and heavier than the lower, extends horizontally across the upper part of the left wing. Above U there is a tiny dentil, with a much larger one on its right. 50 C is low, with a slender 5, and the 0 is recut showing at upper left both inside and outside. I is centered under the right side of T.
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
Well, I frankly admit I am embarrased to share this with you guys, but I MUST. Why? Confession soothes the soul.
On April 18th on this thread I posted my gorgeous, eye appealing 1812 O-104a with some brief comments. I again showed the obverse of this coin in its Dansco album page with my other 1812's a few postings above.
This weekend I was going over the die cracks on my 1812's (helping a friend attribute his coin, because I am supposedly an expert) and I discovered - much to my ABSOLUTE HORROR - that my O-104a was NOT an O-104a. Yep, I totally misattributed it!!!!
It's an O-108a.
I don't know how I did NOT catch this when I made my April 18th posting (nor did anyone else).
It is so obvious that the coin is the O-108a when you see the high first 1 of the date.
I keep staring in the mirror and repeating over and over: "Nobody's perfect. Nobody's perfect. Nobody's perfect. Nobody's perfect. Nobody's perfect. etc."
Well there is a plus side!!! I now have two O-108a's and I can sell one of them.
Here is my newly discovered O-108a, R2 with the reverse die cracks marked with red arrows:
Just in case nobody else already posted the "real" 1812 O-104a...
Some diagnostics for 1812 O-104a R1:
Obverse: Star 1 points to upper half of dentil. Centering dot shows on neck. Star 7 points to upper edge of dentil, and to center of curl. This specimen is VLDS and has a crack left of the date, across the end of the bust, and through star 1. Sorry it is too tiny to picture here.
Reverse: A pair of die lines, the upper one much longer and heavier than the lower, extends horizontally across the upper part of the left wing. Above U there is a tiny dentil, with a much larger one on its right. 50 C is low, with a slender 5, and the 0 is recut showing at upper left both inside and outside. On this LDS, there is a crack from NITED STATES, and another from olive leaves, across eagle, to OF. I is centered under the right side of T.
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
Here is another O-109a. This die state shows the "screw threads" boldly and also shows the clear triple reverse die clash before this was lapped off. There is also a nice recutting on one point of star 7. Notice also the nice die lump to the left of star 10. Nice die marriage.
Nice Bustie! AU58WALKERS I looked this beauty over, I had thoughts of what may have happened.
Definitely it shows the evidence of a loosened or a broken bolt. But there is also evidence of something happening before that. The lump in the field at star 10, if you look closely at it. At the die state of this half is before the heavy lapping. You can still see the die clash of the wing in the field at the left edge of the lump. One could assume that the upper die loosened at the time of the clash. It may have slipped down a fraction and c...ocked (bad word), the result is the lump from the upper die tilting and digging in to the lower die.
This may have broken the bolt and it dropped down onto the empty lower die. The dies clashed again damaging both severely this time. It is the only die pair I know of that shows a foreign matter injury to both the obverse and reverse dies. It could of happened in reverse order too.
If you look a the dramatic die rotation aligning the obverse die to match the reverse "LIBERTY" clash marks, you will see the difference when the position when bolt strike occurred.
But these are just my thoughts, what do you guys think?? And another question for you guys... Why is the O-109 plate in O/P's 4th such a low grade coin? Thanks for posting your 1812 O-109, AU58WALKERS. I can sure picture that ED..."I keep staring in the mirror and repeating over and over: "Nobody's perfect. Nobody's perfect. Nobody's perfect. Nobody's perfect. Nobody's perfect. etc." Mike...
Your composite photo is incredible. A person can lose more than a few minutes just taking in all of the information that photo provides. Thanks! Great coin, BTW!
Comments
I have their treatise next to my O/P book.
I use it all the time.
Alot of research went into that work.
It is a must have book for the Bust Half series.
You said"...With that information, will you reconstruct the sequence that causes you to think remarriage? "
This sequence is from what Edgar had said below.
"This marriage of the 1812 is thought to be connected with the O-105 again, later, in a possible remarriage as a LDS of O-105(a) that shows the obverse with an additional crack that wasn't described by Overton/Parsley until later in the book with O-106's creation with the different reverse."
If I had a few more of these, I would definitely attempt it.
Then when you feel something is right, then "poof" you're not.
I had that happen to me earlier this year when I thought I had discovered a new Master Die for 1827.
Turned out to be a New Master Hub.
Til next time, its but a moment in time.
Mike
Larry
Dabigkahuna
Now it's your turn to add to this "...interesting discussion!"
You need to tell us where your O-105a falls into this sequence.
Review the LDS O-105a then yes or no on anything that yours has or is lacking.
I guess make a check-off list for your coin.
I can see on the reverse the start of the formation of the die crack in the scroll by A2.
It started to do the same to Rev. D.
Does it have the die crack extending beyond "C" in Cent?
How extensive are the cracks at the Stars and nose forehead area?
Can you see the crack running along the hairline at the base of the top curls at the eye?
Get out your loupe!
Anyone else?
Mike
The possibility of a remarriage hangs on both 105 and 106 both appearing with and without the crack at star 13 if I read this correctly. To prove a remarriage, one of the following must happen. Either a late 105, demonstrably later than the earliest 106 must be found or edge dies studied to confirm that at least one 105 was coined after at least one 106. As for the former, I doubt that is possible. The presence or absence of a thin spindly crack isn't enough. When the reverse die was changed, the obverse may have been lapped, temporarily removing that crack or causing it to not appear from the first few strikes in its new marriage, for whatever reason. The latter possibility holds out hope.
The edge dies wore and were changed just like obverse and reverse dies. Sometimes they held up for a very long time, edging hundreds of thousands of coins. Other times they wore out quickly. Observe and compare the edges of of late 105s and early 106s. Ask others to bring raw examples to the next show for comparison. After studying these for a while you will observe the same sorts of anomalies as on obverses and reverses and please let us know what you find.
Thank you for stoking the debate! This is the very best use of this forum!
Go into your profile for private messaging and check the box.
Now I don't know why you are getting "Not Received - Identified as SPAM.
I don't have you blocked, maybe it's your settings?
But here in two parts are a few findings....
HI Edgar
Its been awhile since I've had a response from you.
This is what I've been working on this week...
Comparison O-105a to O-106a terminal state.
What I have found....
From this O-105a die state showing comparison to the terminal state of
O-106a.
Die was lapped as seen in the picture comparison.
Notes:
Small raised square spot left of the first 1, now a small dot on O-106a,
this is along the die crack to the left of 1.
The 8 now shows a cud from a die chip in the lower loop which later forms a chevron.
In O-105a, there is a blob in the upper right of the upper loop.
In O-106a it looks like a line.
New cracks formed at the center of 8 on the right side going diagonally upward. (O-106a)
One from the tip of the lower bust to the edge.
O-105a Star 13 short crack lapped off later (O-106?), star point now sharp.
(O-106a shorter and turned to the right, like bent.)
Die crack reappears in O-106a heavier and slightly shifted.
Small knock in the first 1 (upper serif).
Looks like a small dot on O-106a.
Left side of die sunken. (O-106a)
If you have a good scan of a 1812 O-106 obv., could you please forward it to me?
So, does that mean that somewhere out there exists a O-106 without
the second side of 8 filling and without lapping to star 13?
I have really come to enjoy the daily dose of CU Forums LECBHD Facts!
Regards Edgar
Mike
Part 2:
Thanks Ed
I haven't had a good look at a O-106 EDS, I have a feeling that I'm going to find my answer there!
With the lapping after LDS O-105a, the O-106 will have hidden attributes!
They just have to be found or in other words turning over the right rock.
I can see that in your IDS O-106 that the lowest point of Star 13 changed, as it continued in O-106a.
The die crack, is really an illusion from the LDS O-105a lapped, shorter and as it has changed direction. (Star 13)
Your IDS O-106, although not an "a" model, the Key to that is the sunken die!
The multi-relief around the date and the "Chevron" in the 8.
Interesting side note here! I'm only looking at the Date and Star13 !
You ask why, possibly?
This is the place of movement!
The stress of the die was at the die crack through 2 and the one diagonally thru 8.
This triangle finally broke inside the die, a small shift, it buckles the area between 2 and Star 13,
the entire left central portion drops internally.
So the most desired O-106a in my mind would just later than Edgars new purchase,
with the full crack coming down from the bust to 1 & 8 meeting the diagonal crack from the left Bust and 1,
to the rim, with the one from 2 to the rim, Edgar's show fine lines of the cracks.
They would have ones similar as the one at Star13 all over...Terminated obverse!
Mike...
If any of you NUTS out there would have interest!
There is a LDS O-106a Terminal Die State on ebay NOW.
See this neat Terminal Die State O-106a on eBay!
Or if you NEED, THINK or WANT to own this "Terminal Die State.....Set your Snipers.
Mike...
<< <i>Now....
If any of you NUTS out there would have interest!
There is a LDS O-106a Terminal Die State on ebay NOW.
See this neat Terminal Die State O-106a on eBay!
Or if you NEED, THINK or WANT to own this "Terminal Die State.....Set your Snipers.
Mike...
Shhhh,
I am watching this one.
I can take it off???
Do you have a GOOD scan or Picture of EDS O-106?
Mike...
Yours are a little later than I needed !
I was looking for an EDS, without the chevron in the 8.
But to have three of them, thats great.
Yes, this state is fairly easy to ID with the obverse cracks,
but the reverse is the dead give away in this marriage.
I wonder what the EDS shows?
It would be pretty Cool to have a 100 of these to show the progression
of this dies Termination.
Thanks for your help.
Mike
You posted your O-105, with close up of the date.
Could you post it again but include left side point of the Bust and just beyond Star 13.
With a clear scan just like you posted first?
Thanks...
Mike...
If you notice in the lower loop of the 8, you see the die crack.
After a lapping of the die, a chip breaks off, it is then that the 8 starts to fill.
Also note how Crisp the 2 is before the crack goes through it.
Really no sign of a crack at Star 13.
Thanks again!
I think this is progressing nicely...
Mike
How's this for the assist?
I still Love this CLOSE-UP........
Mike
I think it is only fair that I give you this other piece to the puzzle
That one won't work in my made up puzzle piece.
o'Well !
But you can see it is possible to digitally put pieces together.
Then enhancing the image.
Mike
Here is my contribution which is an Intermediate Die State of the 1812 O-110a.
Per the O/P book the O-110a has a long die crack that does NOT appear on the O-110.
This die crack extends from milling below olive leaves along base of UNITED STAT then to the scroll. In the Late Die State this die crack extends further to the edge at R in AMERICA.
I do not have an example to show with this complete die crack. Does anyone have one of these to post on this Thread?
My IDS coin has the die crack from the milling below the olive leaves running along the base of UNITED S. (red arrows)
Photos of my IDS 1812 O-110a, R1:
122/123
John Reich Collectors Society
Capped Bust Dimes
Welcome to our CU Capped Bust Half Dollar series.
It is an interesting thread. It is keeping me busy attempting to image these large coins.
122/123
John Reich Collectors Society
Capped Bust Dimes
122/123
John Reich Collectors Society
Capped Bust Dimes
Read your posts above - finallly - after resolving the "squirrels eating my cable lines outside" fiasco.
I've enclosed a close up showing the die crack at the back of the curl turning into a blob from a "chip out" (image below). You might want to check your images against this one too and see where they fall. Interesting study!
I agree with you that the supposed crack at star 13 is not really a crack at the point that it appears to be one. It's die wear and a straight pull to the edge. It wore a good grove in the die from the star point of star 13 to edge. They then heavily lapped this area. This "could" have weakened the area causing the later crack at Star 13. The entire obverse die collapsed on the left, I believe, due to a gas bubble in the core of the die which allowed the movement INWARD giving us the weakness.
Regards,
Edgar
P.S. I think Mozin posted an EDS at the beginning of this thread. He might be able to supply a BIG close-up.
Squirrels you say...
Must be all kinds of NUTS in Michigan !
Thanks for the picture, this one is of your negative.
Showing the detail and the other crack along the back of the hair.
Notice the Star ends with the shortened and twisted ends.
You think a bubble in the die steel?
Not the brittling from reheating effect?
Correct me if I'm wrong, the mint wasn't using "Cast Steel" yet was it?
If any one can help, if you have a good scan or picture of the O-106 EDS!
Thanks All, it's a group thing!...
Mike
Joe G.
Great BST purchases completed with commoncents123, p8nt, blu62vette and Stuart. Great coin swaps completed with rah1959, eyoung429 and Zug. Top-notch consignment experience with Russ.
Your coin looks to be O-103 R1.
When are you going to buy the Overton book?
<< <i>jobiwan115,
When are you going to buy the Overton book? >>
Before I buy another Bustie, mozin. I promise!
Joe G.
Great BST purchases completed with commoncents123, p8nt, blu62vette and Stuart. Great coin swaps completed with rah1959, eyoung429 and Zug. Top-notch consignment experience with Russ.
and the specifics.
1. One much higher than 812 - 81 closer than 18 or 12.
2. AM and CA appear to touch.
3. Die crack from olive leaves to base of the U.
4. Die crack above UNITED STAT.
5. Die crack through TES crossing the scroll and through the field to the eagle's left wing.
6. Die crack at the date between 81 (this appears to start to the left of the first one and migrate to the two - but that could be my imagination).
7. Die crack across the eagle's head.
8. Die crack at 50 C.
–John Adams, 1826
Welcome to our CU Capped Bust Half Dollar series. Nice Bustie.
–John Adams, 1826
<< <i>Now....
If any of you NUTS out there would have interest!
There is a LDS O-106a Terminal Die State on ebay NOW.
See this neat Terminal Die State O-106a on eBay!
Or if you NEED, THINK or WANT to own this "Terminal Die State.....Set your Snipers.
Mike...
I picked it up.
Capped Bust Half Series
Capped Bust Half Dime Series
I know nothing about the series, but it's in better shape relative to the 1803 it was next to.
They were both the same price, now that I've had a chance to look up values it looks like I would have done better with the '03.
But it's my first Bustie and I'm pleased with it. It supplants my 1835 half cent as my oldest coin.
I'm surprised these don't command higher prices, I mean really, this is from Madison's 1st term.
So what die marriage did I stumble into?
Welcome to our CU Capped Bust Half Dollar series. Your coin looks to be O-110 R1. Now go out and find more Busties!
I'll just be passing through though, my collecting lacks focus as it is.
I'll have to tackle Busties and Overtons at a (much) later date.
But thanks to all who post such great specimens, I can get a contact buzz.
And my apologies to the forum for the bad etiquette with the large photos.
GAB, on the 1836 thread, following my posting of my Dansco pages with the 1836 obverses, asked me to also post the reverses. I have hestitated doing this for reasons I stated on the 1836 thread.
Following is first Dansco page containing the 1812 O-101 thru 1812 O-108. (This has not been posted here before.) The rest of the 1812's (the O-108 thru 1812 O-110b) can been seen on the 1813 thread. This is because they are on the same Dansco page where my 1813's begin.
Following the obverses you will see the reverses. The reverses are not labeled as to date and Overton number. Remember (in theory) the reverses are struck in a 180 degree rotation from the obverses.
If I show both the obverses and the reverses "right side up," then their location on the Dansco page changes. For example, the 1812 O-101 obverse - clearly labeled - is in the UPPER left corner. Its reverse - not labeled - can be seen in the LOWER left corner.
This is easy to spot and remember on this Dansco page. (1) because the coin has dark toning and (2) because, in numerical order, the O-101 just happens to fall in the upper left of the obverses - this is true only on a couple of my Dansco pages.
Please read my posting on the 1836 thread in response to GAB's request and give me your feedback.
SIDE NOTE: The obverses have been scanned "right side up." Therefore if the reverses are not "perfectly straight up and down," this is because of die rotation - which we are all aware of.
Here is the 1812 O-101 thru O-108 and the reverses:
Some diagnostics for 1812 O-104 R1:
Obverse: Star 1 points to upper half of dentil. Centering dot shows on neck. Star 7 points to upper edge of dentil, and to center of curl.
Reverse: A pair of die lines, the upper one much longer and heavier than the lower, extends horizontally across the upper part of the left wing. Above U there is a tiny dentil, with a much larger one on its right. 50 C is low, with a slender 5, and the 0 is recut showing at upper left both inside and outside. I is centered under the right side of T.
On April 18th on this thread I posted my gorgeous, eye appealing 1812 O-104a with some brief comments. I again showed the obverse of this coin in its Dansco album page with my other 1812's a few postings above.
This weekend I was going over the die cracks on my 1812's (helping a friend attribute his coin, because I am supposedly an expert) and I discovered - much to my ABSOLUTE HORROR - that my O-104a was NOT an O-104a. Yep, I totally misattributed it!!!!
It's an O-108a.
I don't know how I did NOT catch this when I made my April 18th posting (nor did anyone else).
It is so obvious that the coin is the O-108a when you see the high first 1 of the date.
I keep staring in the mirror and repeating over and over: "Nobody's perfect. Nobody's perfect. Nobody's perfect. Nobody's perfect. Nobody's perfect. etc."
Well there is a plus side!!! I now have two O-108a's and I can sell one of them.
Here is my newly discovered O-108a, R2 with the reverse die cracks marked with red arrows:
Some diagnostics for 1812 O-104a R1:
Obverse: Star 1 points to upper half of dentil. Centering dot shows on neck. Star 7 points to upper edge of dentil, and to center of curl. This specimen is VLDS and has a crack left of the date, across the end of the bust, and through star 1. Sorry it is too tiny to picture here.
Reverse: A pair of die lines, the upper one much longer and heavier than the lower, extends horizontally across the upper part of the left wing. Above U there is a tiny dentil, with a much larger one on its right. 50 C is low, with a slender 5, and the 0 is recut showing at upper left both inside and outside. On this LDS, there is a crack from NITED STATES, and another from olive leaves, across eagle, to OF. I is centered under the right side of T.
Welcome to our Lettered Edge Capped Bust Half Dollar series. Your O-107 is a beauty!
That is a fierce looking CBH you got there.
I hope to see more of your coins on these series.
Nice die marriage.
<< <i>edmerir, that is a fantastic set of 1912 busts. >>
You must be talking about Ed's 95 year-old girlfriend.
I looked this beauty over, I had thoughts of what may have happened.
Definitely it shows the evidence of a loosened or a broken bolt.
But there is also evidence of something happening before that.
The lump in the field at star 10, if you look closely at it.
At the die state of this half is before the heavy lapping.
You can still see the die clash of the wing in the field at the left edge of the lump.
One could assume that the upper die loosened at the time of the clash.
It may have slipped down a fraction and c...ocked (bad word),
the result is the lump from the upper die tilting and digging in to the lower die.
This may have broken the bolt and it dropped down onto the empty lower die.
The dies clashed again damaging both severely this time.
It is the only die pair I know of that shows a foreign matter injury to both the obverse and reverse dies.
It could of happened in reverse order too.
If you look a the dramatic die rotation aligning the obverse die to match the reverse "LIBERTY" clash marks, you will see the difference when the position when bolt strike occurred.
But these are just my thoughts, what do you guys think??
And another question for you guys...
Why is the O-109 plate in O/P's 4th such a low grade coin?
Thanks for posting your 1812 O-109, AU58WALKERS.
I can sure picture that ED..."I keep staring in the mirror and repeating over and over: "Nobody's perfect. Nobody's perfect. Nobody's perfect. Nobody's perfect. Nobody's perfect. etc."
Mike...
Your composite photo is incredible. A person can lose more than a few minutes just taking in all of the information that photo provides. Thanks! Great coin, BTW!
zap
102 capped bust half dollars - 100 die marriages
BHNC #198
Yea, I know what you mean...that's why I went there!
A lot to see.
Mike...