Looks like Jefferson Missing Edge lettering has become a reality

notwilight · October 20, 2007 7:33AM

I've hear rumors that several hundred up to 1000 have been found. Looks like they've made their way to PCGS as they have added the Jefferson Missing Edge lettering to the registry set. They don't do that until they've graded some large number of them. Anybody know what that number is? Anybody seen any in the shared listings?

This is good news for those trying to put together a complete missing edge lettering set.

--jerry

wondercoin · October 20, 2007 7:43AM

Jerry - I have heard from a good source (at least a source that has been relaible for me in the past) that the grading services (one or more) have upwards of as many as 500+ combined pieces already which it/they will be grading. And, it appears, PCGS has already entered them in the Registry sets - in both First Day and non-First Day sets (in the past PCGS needed to have graded at least -5- coins in each set before a coin became registry required as far as I know that rule to go). But, until the grading service(s) actually report the exact number of coins it/they have graded, I can not confirm or deny the estimated number of coins found thus far.

So, let the search continue for the remaining ???? yet unfound Jeff MEL coins out there. The only question in my mind today is whether the Adams MEL will end up with a fewer # of coins known than Jefferson MEL or vice versa? Hard for me to determine at this point.

Anyone else have any information on these MEL Jeffersons?

Wondercoin

Bochiman · October 20, 2007 8:13AM

The only question i have is "where" these are being found....what region?

LALASD4 · October 20, 2007 8:18AM

The buyer of the current Ebay auction won't be happy.

notwilight · October 20, 2007 8:22AM

It's only a 65 fir ////44K

wondercoin · October 20, 2007 8:25AM

Jerry - As you know, Jefferson Dollars can easily come MS67 quality even with the added step of lettering the rim. I think PCGS has already graded 1,500-2,000 MS67 coins.

Wondercoin

Manorcourtman · October 20, 2007 8:34AM

<< The buyer of the current Ebay auction won't be happy. >>

He's screwed, blued and tatooed, so to speak!!! Bet the sale is never completed.

SUMORADA · October 20, 2007 8:41AM

I saw that it said Denver, wonder if it states that on the slab...............

Cgb · October 20, 2007 8:51AM

<< It's only a 65 fir ////44K

>>

Even at MS65 it looks like crap...

notwilight · October 20, 2007 8:54AM

<< 

<< The buyer of the current Ebay auction won't be happy. >>

He's screwed, blued and tatooed, so to speak!!! Bet the sale is never completed. >>

Hope not. I sent the seller a note asking if he was just going to let the auction end knowing that there are many more than his auction/article implies. No reply. Maybe the $4k bid is "scumnuker!!"

Bochiman · October 20, 2007 8:55AM

<< I saw that it said Denver, wonder if it states that on the slab............... >>

Hey, yeah! What's up with no slab pictures? Sounds like an ebay violation

notwilight · October 20, 2007 8:56AM

<< It's only a 65 fir ////44K

>>

Sorry, trying to type and talk on the phone at the same time. got word from another source verifying that there are many of these at PCGS. It should say "It's only a 65 for $4k!!!"

Silverstate · October 20, 2007 9:03AM

That coin is ugly.

I heard also that there are more rimless coming from two different sources.

notwilight · October 20, 2007 9:50AM

Closed at $4050. The winner is a customer of mine.

--Jerry

LALASD4 · October 20, 2007 9:52AM

Well, I was right he is not happy.

notwilight · October 20, 2007 10:02AM

<< Well, I was right he is not happy. >>

Seems happy to me--happy to know the truth. --Jerry

LALASD4 · October 20, 2007 10:08AM

<< 

<< Well, I was right he is not happy. >>

Seems happy to me--happy to know the truth. --Jerry >>

I still would not classify that as happy.

FLBuffaloHunter · October 20, 2007 10:12AM

Anyone that would spend that much money on a coin without knowing it's true rarirty has more money than brains.

notwilight · October 20, 2007 10:26AM

<< Anyone that would spend that much money on a coin without knowing it's true rarirty has more money than brains. >>

Not necessarily. In this case we've gone months before any smoothies were found. he had an article by a guy who calls himself and expert and NN apparently believes enough to put him on the front page saying it was a unique coin. If it indeed had remained unique or top pop, it would be a 5 digit coin.

I'll remind you guys: I sold the first GW67 on ebay. It went for $630. We all thought more would be coming. Many a comment was made here about how crazy the buyer was. When more didn't get graded 67, my buyer flipped it for $3900. Now it's a $6-7k coin. --jerry

FLBuffaloHunter · October 20, 2007 10:29AM

I think I get better odds on a gamble in Vegas.

fc · October 20, 2007 10:34AM

i just cannot get excited over this stuff. thanks for sharing tho.

Casman · October 20, 2007 10:42AM

I thought I read it somewhere that around 1,000 were found in michigan and were off for grading, coinworld maybe? I think it was in the same article as the report of 1 found...

Bear · October 20, 2007 11:18AM

For those of us with missing brains,

that's why we follow the news on this

FORUM.

Rampage · October 20, 2007 11:40AM

19Lyds · October 20, 2007 12:15PM

I'm about to give up on the Presidential series as they have gotten too complex too soon into the series and all the coins are way too expensive! $600-$800 for a MS64-65 missing edge lettered Adams is fairly pricey for a modern set especially since the true numbers for these coins could go up significantly with each box that is opened!

And now the Jeffeson?

Silverstate · October 20, 2007 2:30PM

The sets are due to change soon.
Variety sets will have a Major Variety & Complete Variety Set.
Of course the usual First Day Issue Versions of the Major and Complete variety set as well.

Easiest sets are going to be the basic sets without varieties.

It is getting crazy...And I am following it very closely.

coinkid855 · October 20, 2007 2:39PM

Well, it appears that Michigan got lucky with both the Adams and Jefferson errors. Perhaps I'll get lucky again here in NE Florida!!

wondercoin · October 20, 2007 2:52PM

Funny story - a few weeks ago, I was contacted by someone and offered that "unique" Jefferson rimless for $30,000.00!! I am not even sure the owner of the coin knew about the offer to me (he probably didn't) - it may have been someone who thought he could get it from the owner and "flip it" to me. I learned long ago, if the is one cocakroach (sp. for board filters) in the kitchen there are nearly always tons more - i.e. I highly doubted the coin was unique. So, I passed on the offer. But, the offer made me interested in investigating the situation concerning these coins and, hence, how I discovered information suggesting the POSSIBLE additional coins out there I alluded to in my first posting. I also learned today that Coin World ran a story on these Jefferson Dollars (coming out in the next edition) which has possibly some confusing information concerning the amount of coins known (when you read the story, you can draw your own conclusions - I only heard about the story at this point).

Wondercoin

FLBuffaloHunter · October 20, 2007 11:46PM

I think all it would take for that coin to lose value is a couple to come back certified MS 66 or 67. After that happened, a MS65 would not be the one people willing to pay that kind of money for it would want.

TwoSides2aCoin · October 21, 2007 12:00AM

<< That coin is ugly.

I heard also that there are more rimless coming from two different sources. >>

The seller also has this SMOOTH EDGE for only $24.95.

Rare S M Q Q T H edge

So if you missed out... Jump on this one

TwoSides2aCoin · October 21, 2007 12:04AM

<< i just cannot get excited over this stuff. thanks for sharing tho. >>

See my previous post for your excitement

57loaded · October 21, 2007 12:48AM

it would be great as a subset to the FSpouse series ....the President's mistesses

don't need my coffee this morning!

wondercoin · October 21, 2007 2:04AM

By the way, I did receive a thoughtful email this morning from Ken Potter, the seller of that coin on ebay. In short, he is not aware of any hoards of the MEL Jeffs out there and, as such, believed to be offering his specimen on ebay in good faith.

Wondercoin

FLBuffaloHunter · October 21, 2007 2:33AM

The October 29th Coin World article reported a hoard of several hundred MEL Thomas Jeffferson dollars has been purchased by Fred Weinberg:

<< Weinberg disclosed only that the hoard represents "several hundred" Jefferson, Plain Edge dollars obtained from a source in the Midwest. He did not specify the exact location of the hoard or the exact number of coins it contained. >>

wondercoin · October 21, 2007 2:50AM

FLA - Jefferson Dollar varieities include the MEL coin as well as light lettering and partial missing edge lettering specimens. I believe it may not be 100% clear from the Coin World article just how many errors Fred obtained in each category - in fact, I was told (I did not read the article) Fred commented that he had not inspected the entire find. So, while I stand by my original comment to this thread (and the CW article certainly seems to lend support to my comments), the jury is still out on exactly how many specimens have been discovered of each type of error.

But, as my investigation continues this weekend, I am informed and believe MANY coins have already been graded by the service(s) - and as I mentioned earlier, these coins come very nice. Expect many MEL Jeffersons to grade MS66, MS67 and even a possible MS68 or two and expect to hear about them soon!!

Let's see if my information turns out as good as NN or CW information

Wondercoin

aficionado · October 21, 2007 3:08AM

I read the description of the auction and all I see is a claim that it's the Discovery Coin. If it is Not the Discovery Coin, then there might be an issue, otherwise I don't see anything misleading. It doesn't say it is the one and only example.

If the bidder paid to much, thems the breaks, you takes your chances.

FLBuffaloHunter · October 21, 2007 3:27AM

Just think, the buyer could have bought a lifetime subscription to Coin World, Numismatic News and the ANA with the money he spent on that coin and probably have enough money left over to pay what that coin is really worth

Silverstate · October 21, 2007 7:35AM

As of 10/21/07
PCGS Pop Report is this
on the Rimless Jefferson PCGS # 390499

1/64
125/65
132/66
42/67
1/68

Total Graded 301

.... Guess that bid last night for $ 4050.00 for that MS65 one on eBay was a tad high.
Here is the link to the closed eBay auction.
CLick here to see the $ 4050 Dollar Jefferson Smoothie..

The News is the FIRST MS68 Graded Presidential Dollar - Business Strike is a Jefferson Rimless.
There will be more, they missed an entire process which makes marks on the coins.

wondercoin · October 21, 2007 8:09AM

Who could have thunk it?

2 questions remain for me:

1. What % of the hoard actually went to PCGS and what % was "held back" for the time being (including related question of whether most of the highest quality pieces were in the original submission pile or the hold back pile)?

2. Original question - which will turn out scarcer - Adams MEL or Jeff MEL?

Wondercoin

notwilight · October 21, 2007 8:56AM

<< I read the description of the auction and all I see is a claim that it's the Discovery Coin. If it is Not the Discovery Coin, then there might be an issue, otherwise I don't see anything misleading. It doesn't say it is the one and only example. If the bidder paid to much, thems the breaks, you takes your chances. >>

As I read it, and the article, there is a clear implication, even if not stated, that this is a unique coin. But there is a no-questions-asked return policy. I'm sure the buyer will take advantage of it. --Jerry

FredWeinberg · October 22, 2007 1:37AM

I replied to an email from the buyer of this
Discovery Coin.

We don't know yet if the coin is pedigree'd
by PCGS as "Discovery Coin", but I told him
I thought that it shouldn't be a problem to
have PCGS do so, with Ken Potter as the
original submitter of the coin, etc.

At this time, none of my coins are available for sale.

Fred

wondercoin · October 22, 2007 1:46AM

The interesting question (to me at least) is not whether Ken owns the discovery coin (no doubt he does), but, rather what a MEL Jefferson graded 3 points under the top pop and one of 301 already in in the pop report (his coin plus a first submission of exactly -300- pieces) is worth? Should a "Discovery coin" (any Discovery coin) be worth 500%, 1000% or more of the typical price level for that grade? Or, perhaps just a 20% or 30% premium as the Cheerios Dollar discovery piece probably fetched? That is the interesting question to me in all this.

Board member thoughts?

Wondercoin

pf70collector · October 22, 2007 2:08AM

This doesn't bode well with the U.S. Mint. My guess is Congress just may eliminate the edge lettering process next year. It is obvious they can not control this error from happening. As far as the Adams going for around $600 its just way to high for me to even think about buying this coin. I surmised the lone Jefferson that was discovered last month would fetch $10,000. Guess I wasn't too far off. If it was a true rarity and only one or two Jefferson Missing Edge Lettering were all that surfaced than the $4000 would be in line but not now. As far as a discovery coin demanding more of a premium I would say tops at about 10-20% more depending on the rarity factor. Thats just a personal assessment, no data to back it up though.

Silverstate · October 22, 2007 4:19AM

The real problem with a"discovery Coin" in this case. Is that it did not stand alone very long. So what is it worth? Price of the label in difference.

mr1931S · March 26, 2008 2:57AM

I picked up two rolls of Jefferson at my bank today along with two Monroe.These are obw rolls that came from Denver.

Best to leave them unopened? What do you guys think?

19Lyds · March 26, 2008 3:00AM

Open them.

rgCoinGuy · March 26, 2008 3:00AM

There are hundreds of millions of these things minted, almost none circulating, buying an OBW roll shouldn't be a big deal anytime. I would open them and see if you have anything good.

Whitby · March 26, 2008 3:38AM

well well well

The worm has turned......

wondercoin · March 26, 2008 3:44AM

Judging from my very first post on this thread (at that time there was one "known" coin being talked about in the trade papers, etc. if I recall correctly) - I guess my contacts proved strong and relaible!

Wondercoin

Whitby · March 26, 2008 4:02AM

<< Judging from my very first post on this thread (at that time there was one "known" coin being talked about in the trade papers, etc. if I recall correctly) - I guess my contacts proved strong and relaible!

Wondercoin >>

Good thread. I love the series, BUT I cant stand the freakish population of varieties and their resulting freak outs.

Oh well, at least I am not bored.

Appreciate the update.

illini420 · November 16, 2008 10:41AM

Are these really worth anywhere close to PCGS guide prices???? I just bought a Jefferson Dollar in PCGS MS65 w/ Missing Edge Lettering (in a very cool PCGS Edge View holder) for what would be a good deal if the $2850 price guide value is even close to reality. I don't collect these, way too modering for me, just thought it was too good of a deal to pass up. Anyone know what the pops are on this coin??? Thanks in advance for the info.

Looks like Jefferson Missing Edge lettering has become a reality

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