Possible ebay fraud: 1858 SL MS-64 Have you seen this coin?

EagleEye · September 9, 2007 7:59AM

I won this coin in an auction on ebay. I am very suspicious about the seller and the coin. I think the image of the coin was lifted from somewhere, but I have not found it yet. The seller only wants a bank wire or certified check (yea right!). I offered to pay by paypal (for security). He will not accept payPal although in his store he lists this:

I Prefer PAYPAL----------I ship US Priority Mail w/tracking #

Here is the auction:

Auction link

Cgb · September 9, 2007 8:04AM

Seems fishy to me.

Mainly because he is not accepting paypal on this item, while in his store he is accepting paypal.

AUandAG · September 9, 2007 8:12AM

I don't see where he accepts Paypal on this auction. I don't like private feedback....just hiding anything
bothers me. But, I can't see any other red flag. Why not call the guy and offer to pay with Paypal and add
the 3% for safety and to pay his fee?
Nice coin by the way!
bob

OPA · September 9, 2007 8:12AM

It seems odd...however, his payment method for this auction clearly indicated: Seller's payment instructions
I accept cashiers checks, wire transfer, MO. Payment expected within 7 DAYS of Auction End!

Maybee I'm going blind, but I do not see PayPal available for his store items either....

Russ · September 9, 2007 8:14AM

That sure looks like an old Heritage image.

Russ, NCNE

mozeppa · September 9, 2007 8:14AM

I think he's Okay....been around a while ...probably does want to be skinned by paypal for the hit he's gonna take on that much money.

edit to add...didn't see "pay pal" ...but didn't look either.

GrumpyEd · September 9, 2007 8:15AM

I didn't like the looks of the FB, even though you can't see them (private) they read like they're for some ebook or advice not big items. He has been a member for a while and only one neg so I don't see a pattern. Still I'd be careful.

That auction and his one other coin don't allow paypal but since he mentions it in his store he must use it. (would have been wise to ask about paypal before buying it)

Assuming he's not a crook (and if nobody recognizes the photo)
and he just doesn't want paypal fees I'd mail him and say again that you want to use paypal for security and offer him to pay the paypal fee plus insured shipping with signature confirmation so he is safe and not out the fee.

If he is trying to avoid the fee then he might let you do it, if not I'd be worried.

coinsomniac · September 9, 2007 8:18AM

Rick, I never buy on Ebay unless Paypal is accepted. Having said that, it looks legit. I notice that his other coin currently listed has a similar black background, so the image was probably not lifted.

If you have doubts, get his contact info from Ebay and call him. If his account is hijacked he will certainly let you know. If not, ask a few specific questions about the coin, that he would need it in hand to answer.

ebaytrader · September 9, 2007 8:20AM

Contact a few of his other buyers with high feedback and crosscheck his ID info with them. He has a lot of European buyers and doesn't seem to be selling coins to coin buyers. I suspect a hacked account and/or that he's not in the USA.

Russ · September 9, 2007 8:21AM

He had a reserve in this auction, and also has one in the other auction he's running, (which is a relist because it didn't meet reserve the first time). Scammers rarely ever use reserves since their goal is to sell and run.

Russ, NCNE

au58 · September 9, 2007 8:21AM

His descriptions read like those of a professional cataloguer.

mozeppa · September 9, 2007 8:22AM

he only has 1 neg ....
from a buyer who bought and paid for an item... but apparently "Rod senior" died in the midst of the ebay auction and it was left up to the "heirs" to clean up after Dad (from what i can piece together.)

sweetwilliet · September 9, 2007 8:25AM

Here it is, doesn't prove he doesn't have it, it is an old heritage picture.

Heritage auction

speety · September 9, 2007 8:26AM

<< <i>That sure looks like an old Heritage image.

Russ, NCNE >>

Found it. Sold April 4, 2001 for $1,092.50 after the juice.

speety · September 9, 2007 8:27AM

Also, notice how the bottom of the slab is cut off, guess where the heritage stamp is located in their picture...

Edited: Same with the Reverse picture in the ebay auction listing

sweetwilliet · September 9, 2007 8:28AM

Beat you by a skinny minute.

coinsomniac · September 9, 2007 8:35AM

Good detective work fellas. It doesn't mean for certain that he doesn't have the coin, but extreme caution is advised.

Russ · September 9, 2007 8:36AM

<< <i>Also, notice how the bottom of the slab is cut off, guess where the heritage stamp is located in their picture...

Edited: Same with the Reverse picture in the ebay auction listing >>

A lot of cheesy eBay sellers pull this type of thing. There's one seller who takes Teletrade images and covers up the TT logo with pop report or value info.

Russ, NCNE

Musky1011 · September 9, 2007 8:37AM

why weren't you suspicious BEFORE you bid on auction

Buyer's remorse

if you are suspicious- don't Pay

Get a neg

you won't be out anything

coinsomniac · September 9, 2007 8:39AM

....and this is his other coin listed. Keep your wallet in your pocket. Text

notwilight · September 9, 2007 8:42AM

I don't like the looks of his feedback. There is a multiyear gap and then a bunch of graphic artist fou fou stuff that look like they might have all been left by the same person with different IDs. Then there is a month gap so you can't see any of the completed auctions. Then he starts selling semi-expensive coins. Looks like a lot of trouble for two scams less than $1000 each but could be hijacked or the heir is a scammer.

You can offer free excrow using an established dealer as the 3rd party. I've done that before and it was accepted and worked. I'lll be glad to volunteer or there are those on the forum here with more established reputations who would also be glad to help.

--Jerry

LindeDad · September 9, 2007 8:43AM

I find it interesting that the seller had no activity for about four years and then is back in July.

mozeppa · September 9, 2007 10:00AM

maybe he owns the coin...too lazy to take his own picture ...maybe thinks heritage did a better job picturing it than he could do.

I'm just saying.............

speety · September 9, 2007 12:08PM

<< <i>Beat you by a skinny minute.

>>

I just had to look up the price and date it sold on

NumisOxide · September 9, 2007 12:38PM

Seems odd.

partagas · September 9, 2007 1:16PM

I would bet it is a scam. All that private feedback is probably bought for .01 cent each. I wouldn't have bid on such a coin.

micmt · September 9, 2007 7:09PM

This does look a little fishy. I would not have put that type of money down for this auction. My next course of action would be to get the seller info and call the person.