Think your coins are safe in your Sentry safe - think again!
seateddime
Posts: 6,180 ✭✭✭
After Sentry promised to replace my safe and never did I figured I would just share the fact that the keypads have a major defect. You can just pop them off and bypass the security of a keypad. This can be done in 30-45 seconds and your coins are now gone!
I can teach a 5 year old how to do it in 6 minutes. It is that easy to bypass
I can teach a 5 year old how to do it in 6 minutes. It is that easy to bypass
I seldom check PM's but do check emails often jason@seated.org
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
0
Comments
To support LordM's European Trip, click here!
i've got mine in a gun safe!
Knowing what you collect, you need a REAL safe. Look under Safes and Vaults in the Yellow Pages. Good deals can be had on used safes from these places.
<< <i>After Sentry promised to replace my safe and never did I figured I would just share the fact that the keypads have a major defect. You can just pop them off and bypass the security of a keypad. This can be done in 30-45 seconds and your coins are now gone! I can teach a 5 year old how to do it in 6 minutes. It is that easy to bypass >>
For efficiency sake, can you teach a 6 year old to do it in 5 minutes?
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
<< <i>Use silica gel and a digital humidity meter with high and low reading storage (latter is $20; I can try to find the link of someone is interested). >>
planetsteve,
Please post that link.
Thanks,
-Gil
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
http://www.techinstrument.com/acatalog/Hygrometers__RH___humidity_.html
Jim d
And I do like the size, it allows me to stack trays of coins in the safe as laid out and walk out of the shop, not to mention several boxes of slabs if need be.
Doug
<< <i>Use silica gel and a digital humidity meter with high and low reading storage >>
How low will the silica get the humidity down too?
<< <i>..., you might as well store your coins in a filled bathtub. >>
If you seal-a-meal your coins you could literally store them in a filled bathtub np.
Safe Ratings
Burglary Ratings
* B1 — Theft resistant (minimum security)
* B2 — Underwriters’ Laboratories Residential Security Container label
* B3 — Non-rated anti-theft (incorporates features of high security safes
without a UL rating)
* B4 — Underwriters’ Laboratories TL-15 label
* B5 — Underwriters’ Laboratories TL-30 label
* B6 — Underwriters’ Laboratories TL-30X6 or TRTL-30 label
Fire Ratings
* FR — Fire resistant unrated insulated safe
* 1/2 hr — UL class 350. Protects valuables for up to 30 minutes with outside temperature of 1550 degrees.
* 1 hr — UL class 350. Protects valuables for up to 1 hour with outside temperature of 1700 degrees.
* 1 hr+ — UL class 350. Protects valuables for up to 1 hour with an outside temperature of 1700 degrees, plus survived drop test from 30 feet.
* 2 hr — UL class 350. Protects valuables for up to 2 hours with an outside temperature of 1850 degrees.
* 2 hr+ — UL class 350. Protects valuables for up to 2 hours with outside temperature of 1850 degrees, plus survived drop test onto rubble from 30 feet
UL Underwriters' Laboratories (UL) - UL is a non-profit, non-bias agency that tests and rates the safety and performance of consumer products. Safes that have earned specific UL ratings will carry a UL label which designates the product's security and fire-protection ratings.
* Net Working Time - This is the UL term for testing time which is spent trying to break into a safe using tools such as diamond grinding wheels, high-speed drills with pressure applying devices, or common hand tools such as hammers, chisels, saws, and carbide-tip drills. If a safe has been rated with a 30-minute net working time, (TL30), the rating certifies that the safe successfully withstood a full 30 minutes of attack time with a range of tools.
* Theft resistant - This rating means the safe provides a combination lock and minimal theft protection.
* Residential Security Container rating (RSC) - This UL rating is based on testing conducted for a net working time of five minutes, on all sides, with a range of tools.
* TL-15 rating - The TL-15 rating means the safe has been tested for a net working time of 15 minutes using high speed drills, saws and other sophisticated penetrating equipment.
* TL-30 rating - A product carrying the TL-30 security label has been tested for a net working time of 30 minutes with the same types of tools mentioned above.
* TL-30 x 6 - The TL-30 (30-minute) test is conducted on all six (6) sides of the safe.
* TRTL-30 - The TRTL rating designates a safe which successfully resisted 30 minutes of net working time with a torch and a range of tools which might include high speed drills and saws with carbide bits, pry bars, and other impact devices.
Fire Ratings
* Impact test - The UL impact test calls for the safe to be heated to 1550 degrees for 30 minutes (1638 degrees for a 2-hour fire rated safe) then dropped onto concrete rubble from a height of 30 feet. The safe is then turned upside down and reheated for another 30 minutes (45 minutes for a 2-hour fire rated safe). During this process, it must maintain its integrity and protect all contents in order to pass the UL impact test.
* Explosion hazard test - All UL fire-rated safes must undergo this test, during which the unit is inserted into a pre-heated 2000 degree oven. If the safe is not constructed properly, the rapid heating will likely cause an explosion.
* FR - Fire resistant, unrated insulated safe - This product is awaiting UL approval.
* Class 350 1/2-hour fire rating - During this test, the safe is heated for one-half hour to reach an exterior temperature of 1550 degrees. Because paper will begin to char at approximately 400 degrees, the unit being tested must maintain an interior temperature of less than 350 degrees during heat-up and cool-down testing in order to earn its rating.
* Class 350 1-hour fire rating - To earn this rating, the safe is heated for one hour to reach an exterior temperature of 1550 degrees, then put through the cool-down test. During this time the safe must maintain an interior temperature of less than 350 degrees.
* Cool-down test - This procedure is a key part of UL's fire testing procedures. After a one- or two-hour fire rating test, the safe is left in the oven for cool-down time with the heat turned off. Because of the intensive heat of one- and two-hour tests, the temperature inside the safe will continue to rise for up to one hour after the oven is turned off. To pass UL testing, the safe's interior temperature may not exceed 350 degrees at any time during heat-up or cool-down procedures.
* Class 350 1-hour fire & impact label - The safe has passed both UL impact testing and Class 350 1-hour fire testing (see above).
* Class 350 2-hour fire rating - The safe is heated for two hours to reach an exterior temperature of 1550 degrees and must maintain an interior temperature of less than 350 degrees to earn this rating. Class 350 2-hour rating and impact label - The safe has passed both UL impact testing and Class 350 2-hour fire testing (see above).
1. Test attack against the door and front face:
1. Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TL-15
2. Tool-Resistant Safe - Deposit Safe
3. Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TL-30
4. Torch- and Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TRTL-30
2. Test attack against the door and body:
1. Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TL-15X6
2. Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TL-30X6
3. Torch- and Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TRTL-15X6
4. Torch- and Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TRTL-30X6
5. Torch- and Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TRTL-60X6
6. Torch-, Explosive-, and Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TXTL-60X6
There was an news article recently in CoinWorld about a burglary and how a collector/dealer’s safe was “smashed”. The manufacturer of the safe was listed and I was not at all surprised that the thieves demolished the safe. The manufacturer given is a major supplier of gun safes, not security safes.
Gun safes are usually made with a body of SHEET metal (steel), 12 gauge, 14 gauge, etc. and a steel plate (usually 1/4 in or less) for the door. Security safes employ steel PLATE, ¼”, ½”, 1” or greater and often have additional composite material to provide defense against various attacks (drill, torch, peel, etc). Security safes are rated on a letter scale, B, C, D, ... with B being a general catch all for 1/4” body and 1/2” steel door. There is also an Underwriter’s Laboratory rating (UL) such ad TL-15, TL30, and so on. The “15”, “30” , etc. on are measures of a the MINIMUM time it takes a professional to break in, the UL personnel that conduct the tests are pros.
Gun safes usually look pretty and have lots of thick locking bolts that give a false sense of security. Steel sheet metal is easy to break into, the local kid with an axe, crowbar and other tools can get in in no time. That thick fire resistant material between the sheet metal is just that, thick material to provide fire protection, NOT buglary protection.
One half inch or more of hardened steel with a drill resistance hardplate protecting the lock, glass or other relocking devices, drill resistant pellets and fibers between the lawyers of PLATE, and so on will discourage all but the most professional burglars. Time is the key to a good safe, not lots of locking bars.
The best jewelry safes may have a industrial diamond impregnated hardplate, slabs of copper to thwart torch attacks, multiple randomly placed relockers, and even layers (safe within a safe).
I would never store coins in a gunsafe and never buy one of those nice looking safes for sale at coin shows, A fairly “safe” safe is going to cost about $1000 for a good TL-15 safe (500 lbs or more).
Safest place for coins – a safe deposit box in one of those 50 year old bank vault safes that were build to withstand a nuclear attack.
-------------------------
Dave (PA)
<< <i>
<< <i>Use silica gel and a digital humidity meter with high and low reading storage >>
How low will the silica get the humidity down too? >>
In the 30 -- 40% range. I find a 200g box works better than a 40g tin.
The 200g box has an indicator on the bottom. If it shows that 30% has been reached and 40% is coming up soon, the air inside the safe won't get drier than about 40%. If using a freshly dried 200g box, the humidity can drop into the high 20s.
Edit: Information added.
Link
UL rated electronic locks are not easy to pick because the keypad does not contain the stored combination (the keypad can even be replaced
and the combination will not change) and the main circuit board cannot be accessed unless the safe is already open.
A safe for home use will only slow down a determined thief. A professional alarm system (ADT, Brinks, etc) with backup phone service and backup battery along with a reasonably robust safe will usually make the amateur or semi-pro burglar run out of time and flee.
It's still mandatory to keep better material in a BANK safe deposit box.
<< <i>I've never trusted a keypad for anything. I use a good ol' combination lock. Sure it can still be cracked, but apparently not as easily as the keypad option. >>
Fort Knox with combo and key back up
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
<< <i>To control humidity, you might want to install a goldenrod. They are almost always on sale at a firearm supplier called Midway. >>
I have two in my safe now and the humidity is still not below 30%.
I read a story lately that in Brazil the robbers dug a tunnel under a bank vault and cleaned it out. They netted $67 million! What a haul! I guess you would have to pay someone off at the bank as well.