Think your coins are safe in your Sentry safe - think again!

seateddime

After Sentry promised to replace my safe and never did I figured I would just share the fact that the keypads have a major defect. You can just pop them off and bypass the security of a keypad. This can be done in 30-45 seconds and your coins are now gone!

I can teach a 5 year old how to do it in 6 minutes. It is that easy to bypass

SilverEagles92

I've never trusted a keypad for anything. I use a good ol' combination lock. Sure it can still be cracked, but apparently not as easily as the keypad option.

NumisOxide

Aren't sentry safes mainly designed for documents?

291fifth

Fire safes are not intended for the storage of things like rare coins.

tahoe98

i've got mine in a gun safe!

mackdriver

I have a key pad,but it also takes a key to open it.

Barry

Not only is Sentry not secure, if it's a firesafe, you might as well store your coins in a filled bathtub.

Knowing what you collect, you need a REAL safe. Look under Safes and Vaults in the Yellow Pages. Good deals can be had on used safes from these places.

planetsteve

Use silica gel and a digital humidity meter with high and low reading storage (latter is $20; I can try to find the link of someone is interested).

LanLord

<< <i>After Sentry promised to replace my safe and never did I figured I would just share the fact that the keypads have a major defect. You can just pop them off and bypass the security of a keypad. This can be done in 30-45 seconds and your coins are now gone! I can teach a 5 year old how to do it in 6 minutes. It is that easy to bypass >>

For efficiency sake, can you teach a 6 year old to do it in 5 minutes?

seateddime

true

Swampboy

<< <i>Use silica gel and a digital humidity meter with high and low reading storage (latter is $20; I can try to find the link of someone is interested). >>



planetsteve,
Please post that link.
Thanks,
-Gil

SUMORADA

Whatever your trying to protect (keep) whether it's coins ,jewelry or cash, you cannot do it in a gun safe or a sentry safe period, I'm a jeweler for over 30 years, used safe's are cheap because nobody wants to pay to have them moved,so when somebody has to leave a building,home or whatever they call somebody (safe movers) and say you move it it's yours,they paint or refurbish it and sell it it, between myself and partners we bought 3 this year,all TL15's delivered for under 2500.00 total for the 3, and good size too! inside dimentions approx 30X36, holds alot of slabs....................just something to think about, and BTW they weigh about 1200 lbs each!

planetsteve

Here you go. I use the LCR318 near the top of the page; $14.95.

http://www.techinstrument.com/acatalog/Hygrometers__RH___humidity_.html

jdimmick

I bought one of the TL15's for my shop in town. It came in to a local new/used safe place from a local jewlery store that closed, was only about 3 months old. I wish I could say I got it for the cost you mentioned, but it cost me 1600.00 for one. They did deliver it for no additional charge, and the owner delivered it himself with 3 other men and a wrecker truck. I hated to spend the money for it, but well worth it in the long run IMO.

Jim d

And I do like the size, it allows me to stack trays of coins in the safe as laid out and walk out of the shop, not to mention several boxes of slabs if need be.

bigbadchad777

I had a sentry safe for several years and lost my combination. It was a dial type. I opened it after 5 blows with a firewood splitting wedge. Very easily opened, safe ruined though, contents were OK.

Doogy

I deal in banking security for a living, and have a couple large safe/vault manufacturers I use exclusively. They make some scaled down versions for home and small business use, with the same technology and quality as the large bank safes/vaults. Although these aren't cheap (as opposed to those $200-300 Sentry safes that are sold at Costco/Stapes,etc. that are just garbage), they're wonderful safes for those that are concerned about their coins being stolen or burned in a fire. PM me if you'd like some advice or to discuss safe options in general, i'll be glad to help.


Doug

Saam

<< <i>Use silica gel and a digital humidity meter with high and low reading storage >>



How low will the silica get the humidity down too?

MajorDuty

<< <i>..., you might as well store your coins in a filled bathtub. >>



If you seal-a-meal your coins you could literally store them in a filled bathtub np.

ldhair

Someone here wrote this. It's worth reading.


Safe Ratings

Burglary Ratings

* B1 — Theft resistant (minimum security)
* B2 — Underwriters’ Laboratories Residential Security Container label
* B3 — Non-rated anti-theft (incorporates features of high security safes
without a UL rating)
* B4 — Underwriters’ Laboratories TL-15 label
* B5 — Underwriters’ Laboratories TL-30 label
* B6 — Underwriters’ Laboratories TL-30X6 or TRTL-30 label

Fire Ratings

* FR — Fire resistant unrated insulated safe
* 1/2 hr — UL class 350. Protects valuables for up to 30 minutes with outside temperature of 1550 degrees.
* 1 hr — UL class 350. Protects valuables for up to 1 hour with outside temperature of 1700 degrees.
* 1 hr+ — UL class 350. Protects valuables for up to 1 hour with an outside temperature of 1700 degrees, plus survived drop test from 30 feet.
* 2 hr — UL class 350. Protects valuables for up to 2 hours with an outside temperature of 1850 degrees.
* 2 hr+ — UL class 350. Protects valuables for up to 2 hours with outside temperature of 1850 degrees, plus survived drop test onto rubble from 30 feet

UL Underwriters' Laboratories (UL) - UL is a non-profit, non-bias agency that tests and rates the safety and performance of consumer products. Safes that have earned specific UL ratings will carry a UL label which designates the product's security and fire-protection ratings.

* Net Working Time - This is the UL term for testing time which is spent trying to break into a safe using tools such as diamond grinding wheels, high-speed drills with pressure applying devices, or common hand tools such as hammers, chisels, saws, and carbide-tip drills. If a safe has been rated with a 30-minute net working time, (TL30), the rating certifies that the safe successfully withstood a full 30 minutes of attack time with a range of tools.
* Theft resistant - This rating means the safe provides a combination lock and minimal theft protection.
* Residential Security Container rating (RSC) - This UL rating is based on testing conducted for a net working time of five minutes, on all sides, with a range of tools.
* TL-15 rating - The TL-15 rating means the safe has been tested for a net working time of 15 minutes using high speed drills, saws and other sophisticated penetrating equipment.
* TL-30 rating - A product carrying the TL-30 security label has been tested for a net working time of 30 minutes with the same types of tools mentioned above.
* TL-30 x 6 - The TL-30 (30-minute) test is conducted on all six (6) sides of the safe.
* TRTL-30 - The TRTL rating designates a safe which successfully resisted 30 minutes of net working time with a torch and a range of tools which might include high speed drills and saws with carbide bits, pry bars, and other impact devices.

Fire Ratings

* Impact test - The UL impact test calls for the safe to be heated to 1550 degrees for 30 minutes (1638 degrees for a 2-hour fire rated safe) then dropped onto concrete rubble from a height of 30 feet. The safe is then turned upside down and reheated for another 30 minutes (45 minutes for a 2-hour fire rated safe). During this process, it must maintain its integrity and protect all contents in order to pass the UL impact test.
* Explosion hazard test - All UL fire-rated safes must undergo this test, during which the unit is inserted into a pre-heated 2000 degree oven. If the safe is not constructed properly, the rapid heating will likely cause an explosion.
* FR - Fire resistant, unrated insulated safe - This product is awaiting UL approval.
* Class 350 1/2-hour fire rating - During this test, the safe is heated for one-half hour to reach an exterior temperature of 1550 degrees. Because paper will begin to char at approximately 400 degrees, the unit being tested must maintain an interior temperature of less than 350 degrees during heat-up and cool-down testing in order to earn its rating.
* Class 350 1-hour fire rating - To earn this rating, the safe is heated for one hour to reach an exterior temperature of 1550 degrees, then put through the cool-down test. During this time the safe must maintain an interior temperature of less than 350 degrees.
* Cool-down test - This procedure is a key part of UL's fire testing procedures. After a one- or two-hour fire rating test, the safe is left in the oven for cool-down time with the heat turned off. Because of the intensive heat of one- and two-hour tests, the temperature inside the safe will continue to rise for up to one hour after the oven is turned off. To pass UL testing, the safe's interior temperature may not exceed 350 degrees at any time during heat-up or cool-down procedures.
* Class 350 1-hour fire & impact label - The safe has passed both UL impact testing and Class 350 1-hour fire testing (see above).
* Class 350 2-hour fire rating - The safe is heated for two hours to reach an exterior temperature of 1550 degrees and must maintain an interior temperature of less than 350 degrees to earn this rating. Class 350 2-hour rating and impact label - The safe has passed both UL impact testing and Class 350 2-hour fire testing (see above).



1. Test attack against the door and front face:
1. Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TL-15
2. Tool-Resistant Safe - Deposit Safe
3. Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TL-30
4. Torch- and Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TRTL-30

2. Test attack against the door and body:
1. Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TL-15X6
2. Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TL-30X6
3. Torch- and Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TRTL-15X6
4. Torch- and Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TRTL-30X6
5. Torch- and Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TRTL-60X6
6. Torch-, Explosive-, and Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TXTL-60X6


There was an news article recently in CoinWorld about a burglary and how a collector/dealer’s safe was “smashed”. The manufacturer of the safe was listed and I was not at all surprised that the thieves demolished the safe. The manufacturer given is a major supplier of gun safes, not security safes.

Gun safes are usually made with a body of SHEET metal (steel), 12 gauge, 14 gauge, etc. and a steel plate (usually 1/4 in or less) for the door. Security safes employ steel PLATE, ¼”, ½”, 1” or greater and often have additional composite material to provide defense against various attacks (drill, torch, peel, etc). Security safes are rated on a letter scale, B, C, D, ... with B being a general catch all for 1/4” body and 1/2” steel door. There is also an Underwriter’s Laboratory rating (UL) such ad TL-15, TL30, and so on. The “15”, “30” , etc. on are measures of a the MINIMUM time it takes a professional to break in, the UL personnel that conduct the tests are pros.

Gun safes usually look pretty and have lots of thick locking bolts that give a false sense of security. Steel sheet metal is easy to break into, the local kid with an axe, crowbar and other tools can get in in no time. That thick fire resistant material between the sheet metal is just that, thick material to provide fire protection, NOT buglary protection.

One half inch or more of hardened steel with a drill resistance hardplate protecting the lock, glass or other relocking devices, drill resistant pellets and fibers between the lawyers of PLATE, and so on will discourage all but the most professional burglars. Time is the key to a good safe, not lots of locking bars.

The best jewelry safes may have a industrial diamond impregnated hardplate, slabs of copper to thwart torch attacks, multiple randomly placed relockers, and even layers (safe within a safe).

I would never store coins in a gunsafe and never buy one of those nice looking safes for sale at coin shows, A fairly “safe” safe is going to cost about $1000 for a good TL-15 safe (500 lbs or more).

Safest place for coins – a safe deposit box in one of those 50 year old bank vault safes that were build to withstand a nuclear attack.


-------------------------
Dave (PA)

JeremyDie1

vault room

planetsteve

<< <i>

<< <i>Use silica gel and a digital humidity meter with high and low reading storage >>



How low will the silica get the humidity down too? >>



In the 30 -- 40% range. I find a 200g box works better than a 40g tin.

The 200g box has an indicator on the bottom. If it shows that 30% has been reached and 40% is coming up soon, the air inside the safe won't get drier than about 40%. If using a freshly dried 200g box, the humidity can drop into the high 20s.



Edit: Information added.

ubercollector

Good info on the safe ratings. I've been considering getting a one. Right now I have a 10" x 21" safe deposit box at the bank. I only have the commons at the house and those are locked away, but a safe would be better. Great topic!

Frankcoins

The bigger gun safes (500 pounders) meet Calif Dept of Justice standards

Link

UL rated electronic locks are not easy to pick because the keypad does not contain the stored combination (the keypad can even be replaced
and the combination will not change) and the main circuit board cannot be accessed unless the safe is already open.

A safe for home use will only slow down a determined thief. A professional alarm system (ADT, Brinks, etc) with backup phone service and backup battery along with a reasonably robust safe will usually make the amateur or semi-pro burglar run out of time and flee.

It's still mandatory to keep better material in a BANK safe deposit box.

Konahead

<< <i>I've never trusted a keypad for anything. I use a good ol' combination lock. Sure it can still be cracked, but apparently not as easily as the keypad option. >>




Fort Knox with combo and key back up

au58

If you're in the New Jersey area, there is a nice Meilink safe on ebay now.

Coxe

TL rated vaults at a minimum. But no home safe is that secure when someone has a gun at your kid's head and says to you, "Open it." Distributing over a few safe deposit boxes at different banks is inconvenient and requires good notekeeping to track coins, but is hard to beat.

Saam

What kind of safes do each of you use and do they keep the humidity under 30%? Your help would be appreciated.

Coxe

To control humidity, you might want to install a goldenrod. They are almost always on sale at a firearm supplier called Midway.

Saam

<< <i>To control humidity, you might want to install a goldenrod. They are almost always on sale at a firearm supplier called Midway. >>



I have two in my safe now and the humidity is still not below 30%.

elassoto

Sometimes I wonder what's in the bank vault at my bank. I bet there are a lot of great coins there. What do you think the best way would be to clean it out?

I read a story lately that in Brazil the robbers dug a tunnel under a bank vault and cleaned it out. They netted $67 million! What a haul! I guess you would have to pay someone off at the bank as well.