End my confusion

tresgatos · July 11, 2007 5:51PM

OK, I'm de-lurking. And I'm very puzzled. I was watching an auction on Ebay for a 1892 s MS63 Morgan dollar. It sold for the total of 1008.00. Now the couple of books I have ( and the PCGS people ) list that particular coin in that condition at about 60,000. Since I'm new to all of this (well except that Littleton comic book thing back in the early 70's) I figure there is some basic concept I'm not grasping. Could it be that the grading service is not popular (USCG) ? Or maybe since the thing glows bright white like it's been nuked that maybe collectors smell a rat?

I apologize that the link is not optimally set up.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=018&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=280130938661&rd=1&rd=1

Bochiman · July 11, 2007 5:57PM

Welcome aboard

As my welcome present to you, I have linkified the link for you

That done, that looks like another self-slab that I wouldn't touch unless i could view the coin in person and knew my stuff (I feel comfortable with morgans, so I would need to view it in person).

Picture is too bright...likely hiding what looks like contact marks and wear. Could have been cleaned. I count tell from that picture.
I think the underbidder got lucky NOT to win it and that the bidder, if legit and not another self-slabber (can you say "MS65...TRENDS $$$$$"?) or doctor, got ripped off.

dcarr · July 11, 2007 6:20PM

It is an EF-45 coin (in a worthless over-graded holder), possibly with damage, that has been heavily polished.
You didn't miss out on anything. The coin is worth, at most, $150.

rec78 · July 11, 2007 6:27PM

Unknown TPG. bad photos. probably cleaned or polished. This is a date to stay away from in BU unless graded by PCGS or NGC. This is one coin that devaluates quickly even if the grade goes down to au50. Anyone can be a self-slabber. In any circulated grade they are common. Bob

Boom · July 11, 2007 6:27PM

eBay is the playground of many a predator looking to prey upon novices and in general, people that just don't know any better.

These newcomers see a slab and a number and forget to LOOK at the coin. JUST LOOK AT IT!

Anyone can buy Plastic, slap a label on said homemade "slab", taking the position that "Grading is subjective". This IS America and it's called Free Enterprise, however it is incumbent upon would be buyers to educate themselves before "entering the Arena".

I advocate buying books, studying the Sheldon Scale, ANA Grading Standards and "reputable" services' grading guidelines.

I would advise any and everyone to 1) buy a jeweler's tray along with a 5X and a good loupe. 2) learn how to properly "handle" coins 3) buy copies of Photograde and commence honing or establishing YOUR grading skills. IT DOES NOT GET ANY SIMPLER THAN PHOTOGRADE AS FAR AS CIRCULATED COINS ARE INVOLVED. Simply match the subject coin(s) to the pictures in Photograde and the short but succint descriptions.

I would also suggest purchasing and pouring yourselves into the following ANA Correspondence courses.

1) Grading US Coins along with 2) Detecting altered or counterfeit U.S Coins. This small investment will save you tons of money and spare one lots of Grief.

If you are going to play the Game, know the rules and arm yourselves with Knowledge. Any so-called coin collector that cannot IMMEDIATELY SEE that this piece IS NOT Uncirculated has a lot of studying to do or WILL pay through the nose.

I sincerely hope this helps end your confusion. Good Luck!

ModernCrapNut · July 11, 2007 6:51PM

Welcome to the forum.

Continue to learn and you'll know to watch out for PowerScrewers.

ricko · July 11, 2007 10:25PM

Welcome to the forum Three Kitties... you have already received a wealth of advice above from members. Pay heed and ask many more questions... Cheers, RickO

pmac · July 11, 2007 10:34PM

I didn't know that the Coast Guard is now a TPGer.

droopyd · July 11, 2007 11:01PM

<< <i>These newcomers see a slab and a number and forget to LOOK at the coin. JUST LOOK AT IT! >>

Even people who have been around the block more than a few times have been known to forget this simple rule.

19Lyds · July 11, 2007 11:07PM

Just because the slab says MS-63 does not make the coin inside the slab an MS-63 coin. As boom already stated, you gotta look at the coin and realize that not all auctions are on the up and up. This is where experience comes into play.

Welcome to the forums!

messydesk · July 11, 2007 11:54PM

Welcome to the forum. Buyer is either an idiot or taking a big chance that it is a borderline AU coin that is not too harshly cleaned to be holdered by another more "well established" third world slabber as AU55 and sold to another greater idiot for more $. Knowledge will keep you from becoming a greater idiot.

AUandAG · July 12, 2007 12:17AM

Good to have you aboard. USGC is not a recognized grading service. In my opinion, they will put any coin in their slab
and any grade you want for a price. Be very careful and if it looks too good to be true it is.
bob

curly · July 12, 2007 12:23AM

Welcome aboard, brother. How you?

tahoe98 · July 12, 2007 12:48AM

TwoSides2aCoin · July 12, 2007 1:00AM

It's not just happening on ebay, folks.

My brother came to me the other day with five Morgans in "COINWORLD" slabs from some outfit called Atlantic Coin Galleries of Lindenhurst NY.

He says he's returning them after I looked at them. Five Morgans, One Proof Frankie and a PREXIE buck in a "used vinyl flip" (bonus coin) for $499.95

I hope he sent them back. Grading is Subjective , but self slabbing is about CRIMINAL

the slabbing part isn't as bad as saying a cleaned coin is MS 64, or that an MS62 coin is an MS64.

I'm glad you ain't lurkin no more .... Did the folks from PETA see your avatar picture ?

Joe

Bobk · July 12, 2007 1:11AM

Welcome three cats. That coin is horid.

Writersblock · July 12, 2007 1:52AM

Conder says:

"Ah yes, yet anothr service USCG. Not to be confused with USGC, USGCS, USGS, or USNS. He also has another company I haven't seen before NAGC. (Oh pleae let it STOP!)

"

tresgatos · July 12, 2007 2:08AM

Ok thanks to all for ending my confusion. And for the nice welcome. Bochiman, thanks for the link. I'll get the hang of all this sooner or later. I guess the tip-off to the coin being bad is no close ups of the surface. And the fact that the US Coast Guard took time out from patrolling our waters to grade that coin. Again, thanks everyone for clearing things up.

RichieURich · July 12, 2007 3:13AM

to the Forums, Tresgatos! Enjoy!

I suggest you do a search on this forum for "third world" or "third world slabs". You'll get a lot of info on how this scam operates. Or you can check my website for Hot Topics - Online Auctions - Third World Slabs.

oxy8890 · July 12, 2007 4:41AM

Tricat,

Welcome!

I am actually a huge advocate of self slabbing!?!?

I have actually self slabbed about 100 coins in the last year, sold a few while keeping others in my collection. Fewer than most but more than others!

By the way if you are going to self slab, I have an excellent connection in Newport Beach CA. They are a great sub contractor if you want to be a reputable self slabber!

Again welcome to the boards. All kidding aside, if your going to buy slabs, I would stick with PCGS and NGC in that order.

BTW, halarious avatar!

fastrudy · July 12, 2007 4:45AM

OMG, the Coast Guard certified it!

JJM · July 12, 2007 4:48AM

....its a dipped/ polished 45 at best

Connecticoin · July 12, 2007 8:27AM

<< <i>It is an EF-45 coin (in a worthless over-graded holder), possibly with damage, that has been heavily polished.
You didn't miss out on anything. The coin is worth, at most, $150. >>

Wow, $1008 for that POS. License to steal.

foundinrolls · July 12, 2007 11:56AM

Go to my askaboutcoins link at the bottom of this post. On that page , you will find a link to my article on "Grading the Graders"

There are graders that are reputable like PCGS and NGC, many of the others are in plain english just people sitting in their garages slabbing coins in holders they buy from various makers.

I stay away from any of the slabbers unless they are top notch like PCGS. Read the article...

Thanks,
Bill

foundinrolls · July 12, 2007 11:58AM

By the way, most of what that seller sells appears to be tampered with or cleaned. All his Morgans look identical no matter what the date or mint.

End my confusion

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