It takes a lot more savvy to collect older coins...
RYK
Posts: 35,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
"It takes a lot more savvy to collect older coins as evidenced by the never ending arguments over grade, value and rarity."
I read this on the internet, so it must be so.
Here's the entire manifesto, for your reading pleasure, courtesy of our beloved, old friend:
Modern Issues vs Classics. Editorial
Several factors have contributed to a huge increase in modern collectors. First of importance has been the long range marketing plan of the large dealers and the TPG's. Several years ago the U.S. mint just didn't issue that many products. But strong lobbying efforts by industry leaders convinced congress to increase their mint products. And their efforts paid off in a stunning array of new issues.
Of course the favorite target, of the classic collectors, are the TPG's as the architects and the benefitting capitalists of the prolific modern issues in todays market. New collectors and investors are flocking to this emerging area of numismatics and are snapping up coins with reckless abandon, much to the dismay of the classic collectors. They argue that collecting these new issues is pure nonsense and a bad investment.
The other segement of the new modern issues are the dealers who specialize in modern issues. It's like the wild west. New collectors are easily guided into buying their offerings based upon questionable price guides and speculative futures. Classic collectors bristle at this strategy and constantly offer criticism on the PCGS and NGC coin forum boards. However the modern dealers are flipping these new issues so fast that their arguments fall on deaf ears.
Hence, new battle lines seem to be drawn every day on the forums. However the classic collectors often overlook some important facts. For instance the TPG's are making more money with these new issues than with classics. It's now their bread and butter. So if anyone has to go on the corporate sponsored coin forums it will be the classic collector if conflicts keep esculating.
Second, classic collectors should recognize that there are not enough of the old collector coins to go around for the new emerging collectors. At least not in modest price ranges. Also it takes a lot more savvy to collect older coins as evidenced by the never ending arguments over grade, value and rarity.
Alas, as all things have their turn under the sun, it appears that the modern collectors will eventually outweigh the classic collectors by such a huge margin that the classic collectors will fade into the background of these forums and become obscure relics of the past.
BB - June 26, 2007
I read this on the internet, so it must be so.
Here's the entire manifesto, for your reading pleasure, courtesy of our beloved, old friend:
Modern Issues vs Classics. Editorial
Several factors have contributed to a huge increase in modern collectors. First of importance has been the long range marketing plan of the large dealers and the TPG's. Several years ago the U.S. mint just didn't issue that many products. But strong lobbying efforts by industry leaders convinced congress to increase their mint products. And their efforts paid off in a stunning array of new issues.
Of course the favorite target, of the classic collectors, are the TPG's as the architects and the benefitting capitalists of the prolific modern issues in todays market. New collectors and investors are flocking to this emerging area of numismatics and are snapping up coins with reckless abandon, much to the dismay of the classic collectors. They argue that collecting these new issues is pure nonsense and a bad investment.
The other segement of the new modern issues are the dealers who specialize in modern issues. It's like the wild west. New collectors are easily guided into buying their offerings based upon questionable price guides and speculative futures. Classic collectors bristle at this strategy and constantly offer criticism on the PCGS and NGC coin forum boards. However the modern dealers are flipping these new issues so fast that their arguments fall on deaf ears.
Hence, new battle lines seem to be drawn every day on the forums. However the classic collectors often overlook some important facts. For instance the TPG's are making more money with these new issues than with classics. It's now their bread and butter. So if anyone has to go on the corporate sponsored coin forums it will be the classic collector if conflicts keep esculating.
Second, classic collectors should recognize that there are not enough of the old collector coins to go around for the new emerging collectors. At least not in modest price ranges. Also it takes a lot more savvy to collect older coins as evidenced by the never ending arguments over grade, value and rarity.
Alas, as all things have their turn under the sun, it appears that the modern collectors will eventually outweigh the classic collectors by such a huge margin that the classic collectors will fade into the background of these forums and become obscure relics of the past.
BB - June 26, 2007
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Comments
and then disagreeing with him the next.
<< <i>i find myself agreeing with the author one moment
and then disagreeing with him the next. >>
Don't fret. The author has that effect on most people.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>It might take more savvy to collect moderns, since the market isn't as established, and rarity is most times a fleeting concept. >>
any monkey can buy a modern that is still sealed in it's Mint capsule, and having a 99+% chance of it not being cleaned, mounted, tooled, thumbed, or tampered with; and with that being said, have just as likely a chance of it being slabbed. I often laugh when i see population reports for "rare" moderns, as a majority of these "rare" coins are just raw, still sitting in their Mint packaging in someone's bureau. Most collectors don't see the need to slab these, as they are near perfect anyway, and would rather spend the money on more moderns.
classic collectors have to develop a keen eye to the many problems that could keep a coin out of a holder, if that is their intention, or at least not being saddled with a problem coin in their 7070 or similar album. Older, classic coins are far more likely to be faked by the Chinese/North Koreans and there is usually a much higher degree of monetary loss when a person gets saddled with a fake/damaged classic than if the coin were a modern
any monkey can buy a modern that is still sealed in it's Mint capsule, and having a 99+% chance of it not being cleaned, mounted, tooled, thumbed, or tampered with;
Laura, is that you?
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>any monkey can buy a modern that is still sealed in it's Mint capsule >>
The moderns I collect aren't packaged in capsules.
Russ, NCNE
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Scares me a bit about the long term...
Bruce Scher
I would postulate a third tier of coins that does not fit into the two categories others frequently mention.
Classic Moderns.
I think we all know the classics (18/19th Century, Morgans, Peace Dollars, Walkers etc)
Moderns are clearly those coins which ALL come nice from the mint (98% would grade 69/70) Proof Coinage 1973 to present, ALL modern commems from 1982, ALL Eagles (MS and Proof), most circulation strike coins from 1999 to present.
Then there are Classice Moderns, those are coins which generally do not come nice from the mint and most people call moderns. Cameo Coinage from 1950-1972, Franklins, Washington Quarters, Roosies, ikes, Kennedy Halves in MS up until around 1990 and many others. There are some true sleeper in these series, as Russ points out all the time. tehse coins in high grade are VERY difficult to find. Some with Deep Cameo contrast etc are even tougher.
thoughts on tier 3???
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
The Modern market has exploded. I agree it's personal preference, but I find it odd how so many people chase after coins in high-grade slabs where these coins, raw, are extremely available and for basically face value. Classic coin collectors surely shake their heads when they see this strange phenomenon. Mintages on all this stuff is sky high, even if it's "just" 10's of thousands compared to the classic stuff.
Who knows...maybe most of these collectors will work backwards and start appreciating the older stuff. Or, perhaps the older stuff will get cheaper and cheaper as demand falls through the floor.
CG
*From a conditoin point of view.
Oh, wait, I'm already there!
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
It also seems to me that ordering from the Mint eventually has all the appeal of ordering CDs from Amazon. You get what you want, but you rarely or never have that "a-ha!" moment.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
<< <i>Also, as I recall from another thread, people who focus on collecting (or acquiring) modern series as they are released from the Mint can suffer burnout -- too many issues coming out, lots of money that needs to be invested (or spent) to keep current.
It also seems to me that ordering from the Mint eventually has all the appeal of ordering CDs from Amazon. You get what you want, but you rarely or never have that "a-ha!" moment. >>
I strongly disagree with your last statement. I really enjoy getting CDs (and other stuff) from Amazon.
But seriously, the burnout factor can occur with either classics or moderns. I suffered especially so with one of my 19th century gold sets. I was perfunctorily filling holes with about as much enthusiasm as a trip to the supermarket. Once I realize this, I stopped and sold off all of the coins I did not care for. Whatever you collect, if you are doing it for enjoyment, don't let it become a drag.