Ebay Issue - First Hag Purchase cancelled - Should I leave neg feedback?

ProofModerns · June 20, 2007 3:23PM

Need some advice on what to do.

After I saw that the hags were sold out, I went on Ebay and nabbed 2 proof AA's: Ebay Link

I paid last night and today I got a refund and the seller claims that his order was cancelled and he can't deliver; however, the auction write up says NOTHING about this sale being contingent.

The sale price was $505, so my immediate thinking is that he cancelled realizing he sold too low. He has offered to send me a copy of the cancellation email from the mint.

So I realize there's not much I can do - if he doesn't have them he doesn't have them. The question is, should I leave negative feedback? He has not yet given me negative feedback so he can retaliate...

Bochiman · June 20, 2007 3:31PM

My view....pre-sales are risky for both parties.
Anyone buying into a presale is taking a risk that they will get it.

I wouldn't leave feedback for awhile, but I would keep checking the seller's auctions to see if they end up with some in the next month or so.
I would also say "sure, that would be great to see the cancellation from the mint. Thanks for the offer", and to ask how many orders they had tried to get (maybe they tried to sell 15 and were limited to 5?)

ModernCrapNut · June 20, 2007 3:33PM

wait about 30 days watch his auctions then bust his butt.

GrumpyEd · June 20, 2007 3:56PM

I don't like any pre-sale.

It's tough enough to order something yourself from the mint, on a pre-sale you have the risk the mint won't get them to the seller on time or at all plus the risk of the seller backing out if he sees the price jump before he delivers along with the normal risks of any feebay deal going bad.

Anyway in this case like the others said I'd watch to see if he re-lists them at a higher price but even then if you give a neg you might get one in retaliation... I've always thought if you paid fast by paypal it should automaticaly give you a pos. Because of the feedback system there's a lot of bad sellers with good feedback numbers.

ProofModerns · June 20, 2007 3:59PM

I dont' like presales either but I couldn't resist knowing the mint had sold out so quickly... and for only $505... It's not the end fo the world, but I am disappointed.

TwoSides2aCoin · June 20, 2007 4:03PM

Selling something without having it in hand is a risky deal especially with the controversy surrounding these coins since the "subscription" option was scrapped. As for a negative feedback, there is no transaction.

You sent money, he refunded the money and cancelled the auction. Whether it is to protect or maximize his profit is not really an issue. A cancellation is just that. No need to use the feedback system in my opinion. Why take a RISK like the seller did ? I'd move along and forget about it.

coinnut86 · June 20, 2007 4:04PM

He'll retaliate for sure... I wouldn't do anything, as ebays feedback system needs revised.

coinnut86 · June 20, 2007 4:05PM

<< Selling something without having it in hand is a risky deal especially with the controversy surrounding these coins since the "subscription" option was scrapped. As for a negative feedback, there is no transaction.

You sent money, he refunded the money and cancelled the auction. Whether it is to protect or maximize his profit is not really an issue. A cancellation is just that. No need to use the feedback system in my opinion. Why take a RISK like the seller did ? I'd move along and forget about it. >>

this reflects my opinion, well said TS

ProofModerns · June 20, 2007 4:07PM

We had a contract. The auction was NOT presented as a pre-sale or a contingent sale. The auction was written as a SURE DEAL. The seller failed to perform.

coinnut86 · June 20, 2007 4:19PM

<< We had a contract. The auction was NOT presented as a pre-sale or a contingent sale. The auction was written as a SURE DEAL. The seller failed to perform. >>

and you have a very valid point, but unless you want a retaliation neg, there's not much you can do but move on...

seriously, I understand, I checked out the listing and he is in the wrong IMHO, but you'll get a neg right back...

derryb · June 20, 2007 7:06PM

Neg him, he's holding for a better price.

Steve27 · June 20, 2007 8:24PM

Report him to ebay as a "Non-selling seller." From the ebay site:

"Seller Non-Performance

When a seller lists an item on eBay, and a buyer bids for and wins that item, the seller and buyer have entered into a contract. Both members are expected to honor that contract. In accordance with that contract, the seller may not:

*

Fail to deliver an item for which payment was accepted.
*

Significantly misrepresent an item by not meeting the terms and item description outlined in the listing.
*

Refuse to accept payment for an item at the end of a successful sale.

Further, sellers are expected to perform in a manner that results in a consistently high level of buyer satisfaction. If a seller's interactions with the eBay Community create unacceptable levels of buyer dissatisfaction, that seller has violated this policy.

Violations of this policy by a seller may result in a range of actions, including:

*

Listing cancellation
*

Limits on account privileges
*

Account suspension
*

Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings
*

Selling fee schedule adjustments
*

Loss of PowerSeller status
*

Referral to Law Enforcement

A buyer who believes that a seller has not honored a contract should read the Additional Information section below to understand what remedies are available to the buyer."

BAJJERFAN · June 20, 2007 9:26PM

Being an as$ about it won't get you your coins. Be glad you got your $$$ back and move on.

COINB0Y · June 20, 2007 9:36PM

He has offered to send me a copy of the cancellation email from the mint

Anyone ELSE get this type of letter from the Mint? Hmmm? Anyone?

FLBuffaloHunter · June 20, 2007 9:40PM

I think you should report him to eBay. You did nothing wrong and no, you should not be 'thankfull' you go your money back. He made a commitment to sell you an item, and he should be thankfull you purchased from him. If he keeps doing that to other people, he won't be selling on eBay much longer.

ddink · June 20, 2007 9:44PM

That's what I really dislike about presales--they are kinda meaningless. You know that if the price goes up, the seller will just refund your money and refuse to sell it to you. But if the price goes down, the buyer will just file a PayPal non-receipt claim before the item ships and get their money back. If the price moves in either direction, it's likely the auction will not be fulfilled.

COINB0Y · June 20, 2007 9:55PM

, David!

BTW, I love that FoodSealer thing you did on those 20th Coins. Great Idea!

Weather11am · June 20, 2007 10:27PM

I would neg him.

JeremyDie1 · June 20, 2007 10:30PM

Presales suck.

ziggy29 · June 20, 2007 10:42PM

Not yet -- but I would NPS him and see where it went from there.

mhammerman · June 20, 2007 11:03PM

OK, here's the deal:

You send me $505 now. I may get a coin from the US Mint at issue price that you could have just as easily gotten for yourself. If I do happen to get that coin, and after you money is in my account, I may send you the coin you paid for, assuming I get it from the US Mint (http://www.usmint.gov) and it looks like $505 is about all I can get for it and if they don't sell out, and if my order is accepted, and there are no problems at the US Mint with my payment. Or not.
P.S., thanks for the prompt payment!

Try this:

Get the issue coins for yourself, from the US Mint, at issue price. It's easy, no paypal goober stuff, no anxiety about the deal, no problems. Or if for some reason you couldn't get one at issue, wait until these things settle down and go to BST and get one in the aftermarket, it's not like these things are going to disappear from the face of the earth. Don't be flipper bait, be early out the gate (I should be a poet).

Coin ON!

ProofModerns · June 21, 2007 12:23AM

Now the seller is requesting a fee credit claiming that " The seller, makincentscoins tells us you have mutually agreed not to complete the transaction (e.g. because you returned or are returning the item for a refund or because there was a misunderstanding) and has requested a credit for their eBay fees."

How do I respond to this? I have not agreed not to complete the transaction. I still want to complete it...

Tonelover · June 21, 2007 12:29AM

<< How do I respond to this? I have not agreed not to complete the transaction. I still want to complete it... >>

There's an option somewhere in that email which allows you to tell them that you do indeed want to complete the transaction. Definitely use it, Ebay doesn't like it when people try to snake out of paying fees.

andyisbak · June 21, 2007 12:35AM

<< Now the seller is requesting a fee credit claiming that " The seller, makincentscoins tells us you have mutually agreed not to complete the transaction (e.g. because you returned or are returning the item for a refund or because there was a misunderstanding) and has requested a credit for their eBay fees."

How do I respond to this? I have not agreed not to complete the transaction. I still want to complete it... >>

we bought from the same seller...i was wondering the same thing...should i neg him or not?... i bought 7 coins from him 5 mw and 2 aa...told me the same story...mint cancelled his order...now just got an email to mutually agree not to complete the transaction...

i responded to the mutually aggrement and chose this option
We have not made an agreement to cancel this transaction.
The seller will NOT be eligible for a refund of their eBay fees.

ziggy29 · June 21, 2007 12:38AM

DO NOT agree to cancel the transaction. If you see an option which says you do not agree to cancel it, use it.

Then file an NPS.

ONETHREE · June 21, 2007 12:39AM

Feedback Link on seller

bengals · June 21, 2007 12:44AM

ask him for the us mint order number and look it up on us mint's web site to see if the order has been cancelled...of course, he might have multiple such orders ...something to try though...he listed the items on june 19th so make sure the items were ordered on that day too...

ziggy29 · June 21, 2007 12:45AM

<< Feedback Link on seller >>

[russ]Pre-sales are sleazy.[/russ]

aficionado · June 21, 2007 12:48AM

<< wait about 30 days watch his auctions then bust his butt. >>

I like this. You have 90 days to leave feedback. Wait it out, what's the hurry?

But if it's stressing you out, it may not be worth the headache. Maybe just move on.

I just looked at the auction. The start time was Monday the 18th. It could be that he didn't get the coins he thought he would. It was a fast sellout.

BAJJERFAN · June 21, 2007 12:53AM

No matter what you do you will not get the coins from that seller. Accept your refund and IGNORE any other correspondence regarding the listing and MOVE ON!!

FLBuffaloHunter · June 21, 2007 1:00AM

Do not ignore any correrspondance regarding the transaction. By doing so you will lose your right to leave feedback for the transaction. I would respond that I intend to complete the transaction. By the look of his feedback, you are not the first he has done this with.

ProofModerns · June 21, 2007 1:11AM

I see it like shorting a stock. Seller should have to go out into the market and procure the merchandise to fulfill his contract.

If I were to pursue specific performance in court, I think I would win. Of course, I would never take this to that extreme.

It's really not my concern that the mint cancelled his order, he'll just have to get them somewhere else. If he had said contingent on receiving mint order or pre-sale then I would be OK... but he didn't.

Coinhog · June 21, 2007 1:11AM

I'd tell him that you had a contract and that you expect it to be honored at the agreed price. I would suggest to the seller that he should buy one on the open market and deliver it to you at the price you have paid for it. If he gets it for less on the open market, he makes out, if it costs him more, OH WELL!!! That was the risk of him selling without inventory.

What gets me about a lot of these small time ebay sellers is that they believe in their minds that they are some type of big time businessmen..... but they haven't got a clue about customer service. The seller should either eat the loss or let go of his coins at the agreed price, regardless of whether they have gone up in value since his auction.

NEG him if need be.

ziggy29 · June 21, 2007 1:11AM

<< I just looked at the auction. The start time was Monday the 18th. It could be that he didn't get the coins he thought he would. It was a fast sellout. >>

Maybe. But this is the chance you take in starting a pre-sale. I don't like them at all, but if you are going to hold them, then (a) make sure you have confirmation you're going to be able to deliver the goods, and (b) honor the sale even if prices go higher.

This seller violated one of these two.

mayor1 · June 21, 2007 1:51AM

As others have said , file a NPS dispute on seller. If he does not respond to it after 8 days, he loses and eBay will give him a strike. 3 strikes within a short period of time and they are NARUed. Works better than a Neg.

57loaded · June 21, 2007 2:02AM

<< I dont' like presales either but I couldn't resist knowing the mint had sold out so quickly... and for only $505... It's not the end fo the world, but I am disappointed. >>

I might have done the same thing you did.

Chances are the seller just pulled the plug because his presale price was low. But pre-sales are wiggy. You got your money back very quick, at least. He gambled and should have manned-up and kept the commitment. The road is long.

In reading the other posts of yours....I would NOT give him a fee credit, just wait and see if he sells another one later. LIke I said he should man-up. His reputation is gone. Glad you have a cool head.

ziggy29 · June 21, 2007 2:04AM

<< Chances are the seller just pulled the plug because his presale price was low. But pre-sales are wiggy. You got your money back very quick, at least. He gambled and should have manned-up and kept the commitment. The road is long. >>

True.

But the only way to stop him from doing it again is if there are consequences to failing to deliver, such as filing an NPS on the seller.

57loaded · June 21, 2007 2:08AM

<< 

<< Chances are the seller just pulled the plug because his presale price was low. But pre-sales are wiggy. You got your money back very quick, at least. He gambled and should have manned-up and kept the commitment. The road is long. >>

True.

But the only way to stop him from doing it again is if there are consequences to failing to deliver, such as filing an NPS on the seller. >>

especially after he wanted his fees credited. see his eBay profile? he is standing in front of a wall poster of Yosemite Falls...

Russ · June 21, 2007 2:32AM

He must be telling the truth. Afterall, he's a

.

BTW, pre-sales are sleazy.

Russ, NCNE

TwoSides2aCoin · June 21, 2007 2:40AM

<< He must be telling the truth. Afterall, he's a

.

BTW, pre-sales are sleazy.

Russ, NCNE >>

I agree with your assessment of PRE- SALES as it pertains to sleazy, but what would you say to a guy who sells a coin with fingerprints and calls it funky toning ? I mean, you don't have to be a powerseller to tell the truth

Bochiman · June 21, 2007 3:14AM

<< We had a contract. The auction was NOT presented as a pre-sale or a contingent sale. The auction was written as a SURE DEAL. The seller failed to perform. >>

Link the auction.
Also, you KNEW it was a pre-sale...you knew there was no way he had the coin yet. Yes, he should have lifted it as a pre-sale and, lack of doing so violates ebay policy, I believe, but still, anyone on these boards knew it was a pre-sale.

ProofModerns · June 21, 2007 3:19AM

Yes, but whether I knew it was a pre-sale or not is irrelevant. This could have happened to an un-knowing person.
Plus, I figured he, like many dealers here, had a network of friends, suppliers, etc. working to procure product. One has to be pretty bold to list an item that they might not be able to get.

And after all, he is a Power Seller...

PRTCOINS · June 21, 2007 4:17AM

<< Need some advice on what to do.

After I saw that the hags were sold out, I went on Ebay and nabbed 2 proof AA's: Ebay Link

I paid last night and today I got a refund and the seller claims that his order was cancelled and he can't deliver; however, the auction write up says NOTHING about this sale being contingent.

The sale price was $505, so my immediate thinking is that he cancelled realizing he sold too low. He has offered to send me a copy of the cancellation email from the mint.

So I realize there's not much I can do - if he doesn't have them he doesn't have them. The question is, should I leave negative feedback? He has not yet given me negative feedback so he can retaliate... >>

The link you provided is for a Martha Washington coin but you said you were buying the Abigail Adams coin. I am a little confused as you can cleary see in his description that he is selling a M.W. coin not the A.A. coin.-- I know that in his title he states A.A. coin.

BAJJERFAN · June 21, 2007 4:26AM

<< Do not ignore any correrspondance regarding the transaction. By doing so you will lose your right to leave feedback for the transaction. I would respond that I intend to complete the transaction. By the look of his feedback, you are not the first he has done this with. >>

Why would you give a chit about feedback? BFD. You will get no positive FB out of it and he seems to be doing a fair job of hanging himself without your help. Let it die and MOVE ON I say.

Bochiman · June 21, 2007 4:27AM

<< Yes, but whether I knew it was a pre-sale or not is irrelevant. This could have happened to an un-knowing person.
Plus, I figured he, like many dealers here, had a network of friends, suppliers, etc. working to procure product. One has to be pretty bold to list an item that they might not be able to get.

And after all, he is a Power Seller...

>>

Not saying he is in the right at all....I am with Russ on this with my feelings about pre-sales.
However, I do know they happen.

Sounds like you want to neg him then. So, go neg him.

ddink · June 21, 2007 9:15AM

<< BTW, I love that FoodSealer thing you did on those 20th Coins. Great Idea! >>

Thanks Bill! I got the idea from another forum member. Not only does it keep out air and moisture, it keeps the capsules from popping open during shipping.

<< If I were to pursue specific performance in court, I think I would win. >>

That would be interesting to see. Just because eBay says it's a contract doesn't mean it is one. Then again, maybe the court would disagree. I wonder if anyone has ever filed a lawsuit based on an NPS or NPB?

I will say one thing: it takes some serious nerve for the seller to refuse to sell you a coin, and THEN ask eBay for his money back!

bestday · June 21, 2007 9:17AM

<< Need some advice on what to do.

After I saw that the hags were sold out, I went on Ebay and nabbed 2 proof AA's: Ebay Link

I paid last night and today I got a refund and the seller claims that his order was cancelled and he can't deliver; however, the auction write up says NOTHING about this sale being contingent.

The sale price was $505, so my immediate thinking is that he cancelled realizing he sold too low. He has offered to send me a copy of the cancellation email from the mint.

So I realize there's not much I can do - if he doesn't have them he doesn't have them. The question is, should I leave negative feedback? He has not yet given me negative feedback so he can retaliate... >>

BET he had multiple orders to see if some were cancelled..he is looking for a higher price !!!!!

Shamika · June 21, 2007 9:21AM

He didn't hold up his end of the deal. I would report him to eBay and mention that you wish to neg him but fear retaliation. Maybe eBay will offer you protection from retaliation, but I would HIGHLY doubt it.

cohocorp · June 21, 2007 9:27AM

its his responsibility to go on the secondary market and purchase the 2 coins for you and honor the sell price to you of $505 per. it has nothing to do with you if he got shut out or not. probably a lie anyway. i absolutely would give him the negatives. he took on this responsibility when he decided to do a presale.

ziggy29 · June 21, 2007 9:28AM

<< He didn't hold up his end of the deal. I would report him to eBay and mention that you wish to neg him but fear retaliation. Maybe eBay will offer you protection from retaliation, but I would HIGHLY doubt it.

>>

If you file an NPS and you never get the item, can they still neg you?

andyisbak · June 21, 2007 9:32AM

i didnt agree with his muttally request not to complete the transation.

this what he said
"I told you last night I do NOT have the coins and the Mint has cancelled my order. There are NO coins to sell. They capped orders at 40,000 coins and they all are sold. I need you to accept my request so that Ebay wont charge me over $200.00 in fees for something I cannot deliver. Please help me out on this. I cannot get the coins....no one can now."

i kind feel bad for the guy...

i won 7 of his coins...

he actually closed his ebay store like he said he would on one of the first emails i got from him...saying he was tired of people not believing him blah blah...

Ebay Issue - First Hag Purchase cancelled - Should I leave neg feedback?

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